MR

....that it is perfectly clear he does not want to be associated at all with THIS Journey, despite all the guy's (and especially Augeri's and Castronovo's) very kind words of respect and admiration for the man. That point was emphatically proven when his FACE was blurred out on the Generations EPK....The Hollywood Walk Of Fame was a very positive milestone and momentous occassion for ALL bandmembers PAST and PRESENT, so I guess I'm having trouble understanding WHY he would want to do something that foolish, by NOT showing his face? I feel that was a very pompous decision on his part and a picture (or lack thereof) says a thousand words.....

jrnyjetster wrote:....that it is perfectly clear he does not want to be associated at all with THIS Journey, despite all the guy's (and especially Augeri's and Castronovo's) very kind words of respect and admiration for the man. That point was emphatically proven when his FACE was blurred out on the Generations EPK....The Hollywood Walk Of Fame was a very positive milestone and momentous occassion for ALL bandmembers PAST and PRESENT, so I guess I'm having trouble understanding WHY he would want to do something that foolish, by NOT showing his face? I feel that was a very pompous decision on his part and a picture (or lack thereof) says a thousand words.....

So true, jrnyjetster. It's too bad the situation isn't more amicable. Perry was a singer. He does not own the name Journey. He should be HAPPY that they are touring and recording new music, which promotes sales of Journey's back catalog, which puts money in HIS pocket. All he is doing is shooting himself in the financial foot!

I assume this was a legal issue.
I assume that Perry does not want to lend support to the current incarnation of Journey.


I thought things were getting better between him and the band. I guess not.

"The band may be jamming this summer with "X" members, but
I will not be one of them."

This is all anyone needs to read to know what his feelings are about Journey.

Perry wants to continue to play the victim. He still needs to grow up a bit, imo.

amaron wrote:

"The band may be jamming this summer with "X" members, but
I will not be one of them."

This is all anyone needs to read to know what his feelings are about Journey.

They didn't publish the rest of his statement...

"The band may be jamming this summer with "X" members, but
I will not be one of them.... because I do not want to embarass myself."

OK, he didn't really say that, but it seems that way to me.

Do we know for certain that this was Steve's decision, and if so, what the reason really is for it?

It could be some obscure legality, or maybe it's as simple as his not wanting be mistakely associated through his image with work that he didn't have any part in.

I remember a few years ago when people were posting on the now defunct PT and VH1 Perry boards that they were sure Steve approved of what the band was doing now and even that he still had some kind of creative control. I can see why he would want to avoid promoting those kinds of mistaken assumptions because they're just not true.

ohsherrie, I thought Journey is barred from using any images of Steve Perry unless he expressly consents to it. I heard there were rabid Perry fans reporting things like Journey concert ads with Perry's voice or image being used by radio stations. I would be interested to know if Perry knows the EPK was released with his face blurred.

I understood his no-support for Journey for awhile...but if he is retired I don't see any reason NOT to support the band Journey, which he has helped get to where they are.

I would think it would be like if a baseball team's best player got hurt in the offseason, wouldn't communicate with the team about the injury and after 2 seasons of no playing and no communication about timetable the team decided to release the player and sign a new star. If after 10 years the player hadn't played with any other team...I would assume they were retired and would want to be a part of the organization in other aspects...at least for awards nights and publicity.

Doesn't Perry care about Journey?

(I'm interested in hearing ohsherrie's response to this)

There is no "I" in TEAM.
The rest of Journey failed to impress this fact upon Perry 20 years ago. I wouldn't expect him to become a team player at this point.
It would be nice if he had the humility to be as gracious towards the rest of Journey (particularly SA) as they, in my opinion, have been to him particularly regarding the WOF event.

Ok, I'll be glad to respond and I hope noone will take personal offense to what I say, or think I'm saying anything demeaning about the band.

I don't think the analogy about the sports team is exactly the same thing. Journey and the music they made together were a lot more personal than most sports teams.

I understand perfectly why Steve feels the way he obviously does. It's because he cares so deeply for what they created together as a band. He wanted the name Journey to continue as a representation of that work. He doesn't want the name associated with just any group of musicians producing whatever kind of music they choose to produce. Maybe some of you think of that as being selfish, but I see it as his trying to protect the integrity of the work that he put his heart and soul into and to which his name will forever be connected. Some people like the music they're doing now, we don't know if Steve likes the music or not, but it's not HIS music and he wants that to be known. Some of you don't seem to like the idea of calling that music HIS music, but I don't mean to imply that he was soley responsible for it. I mean only that it is the music that is associated with his name. He said, "do whatever you want, with whomever you want, but leave Journey alone". That's the way he felt and apparently still feels. You may disagree, but he feels what he feels, and seems to feel it very deeply.



Yes, NIG, I was one of those rabid fans. I absolutely object to this band using Steve's image in any way to promote their work. That's simply because he has nothing to do with this current work and he doesn't want to be associated with it. I don't know if there's any kind of legality involved in it, but I suppose there could be.

If this band does well on their own merits, then they've earned it and deserve it. If they were to do well only because they used Steve's image and previous work to promote their work, then it's just not ethically right. That was the point of my protests against the use of his image and vocal clips to promote their shows.

Well, ohsherrie, it is incredibly pompous to tell a group of men they should not continue without you, even though you refuse to take part. And Perry was compensated quite nicely, and continues to be, for his role in Journey. For Perry to want to let the name die and not want Neal, Jon, Ross, Deen and Steve A. to continue to bring joy to Jorney fans worldwide is the ultimate act of selfishness. For crying out loud -- HE MAKES MONEY from Journey's continued popularity and sales of their back catalogue! He would rather be able to say, "Yeah, Journey couldn't continue without me because I am so great," than for the band to help line his wallet. Sorry, that is disgusting to me. Convince me otherwise.

If Perry is responsible for his face being blurred out, it's probably for the same reason that he didn't want the fans to know ahead of time that he would be at the WOF affair.

heardonthestreet wrote:If Perry is responsible for his face being blurred out, it's probably for the same reason that he didn't want the fans to know ahead of time that he would be at the WOF affair.

which is...

Why are some of you conplaining so much that Perry dosen't feel he wants to give this band the time of day except to work at bringing back, by way of dvd, his time with them? What on earth do you expect? You bitch about his voice, his methodology, and his bandmates have dissed him. Why should you want his picture on Generations? You just can't stand that he and his loyal fans want nothing to do with this present Journey.

Get real Nig. The guys are loving his efforts to STILL make lots of $ for them by producing the Classic Journey dvd's.

NealIsGod wrote:

heardonthestreet wrote:If Perry is responsible for his face being blurred out, it's probably for the same reason that he didn't want the fans to know ahead of time that he would be at the WOF affair.

which is...

............................................................

Think BIG!

ohsherrie wrote:Ok, I'll be glad to respond and I hope noone will take personal offense to what I say, or think I'm saying anything demeaning about the band.
I don't think the analogy about the sports team is exactly the same thing. Journey and the music they made together were a lot more personal than most sports teams..

No offense to me at all. I agree that this is a more personal thing than a sports franchise which exists before any of the players are part of it, and continue long after the players are gone. But there is still a "team" concept, and more so really as the players in a band are the owners of the entity, not an employee of it.

ohsherrie wrote:I understand perfectly why Steve feels the way he obviously does. It's because he cares so deeply for what they created together as a band. He wanted the name Journey to continue as a representation of that work. He doesn't want the name associated with just any group of musicians producing whatever kind of music they choose to produce. Maybe some of you think of that as being selfish, but I see it as his trying to protect the integrity of the work that he put his heart and soul into and to which his name will forever be connected. Some people like the music they're doing now, we don't know if Steve likes the music or not, but it's not HIS music and he wants that to be known. Some of you don't seem to like the idea of calling that music HIS music, but I don't mean to imply that he was soley responsible for it. I mean only that it is the music that is associated with his name. He said, "do whatever you want, with whomever you want, but leave Journey alone". That's the way he felt and apparently still feels. You may disagree, but he feels what he feels, and seems to feel it very deeply. .

I definitely disagree with this, Perry's "integrity" issue I see as only arrogance, still thinking Perry knows best, still placing himself and his ambition/direction/feelings/need to be "known as Journey" above those of the majority of the entity that was/is known as Journey.

ohsherrie wrote:Yes, NIG, I was one of those rabid fans. I absolutely object to this band using Steve's image in any way to promote their work. That's simply because he has nothing to do with this current work and he doesn't want to be associated with it. I don't know if there's any kind of legality involved in it, but I suppose there could be.

I don't feel the band was attempting to use Perry to promote Generations, the WOF footage is just something nice for the fans who weren't there to see. If Perry wouldn't agree to let them use his image, he just hurt the fans that gave a damn to see him, he didn't hurt the band. I haven't seen the US EPK yet but they could just edit any scene with him out totally, personally I'd rather see more in studio footage than I've seen on the Frontiers release instead of the WOF footage which I saw at the venues this summer. I wonder why Perry let them use the footage then. Is it possibly the band themselves who decided to blur his image as they might be concerned about the possibility of the appearance that they were trying to profit from using his image.
I don't think it amounts to much either way, I don't care personally if he's on there or not. But I doubt they were going to put stickers on the cd saying " video featuring Steve Perry's appearance at the WOF."
ohsherrie, I hope I didn't say anything offensive to you either.

double post, sorry

NIG wrote:

Well, ohsherrie, it is incredibly pompous to tell a group of men they should not continue without you, even though you refuse to take part...

For Perry to want to let the name die and not want Neal, Jon, Ross, Deen and Steve A. to continue to bring joy to Jorney fans worldwide is the ultimate act of selfishness.

Great points NIG

heardonthestreet wrote: Why should you want his picture on Generations?

Please don't twist this around....we are NOT talking about Perry being on the CD cover itself, but rather the video clip of the Hollywood WOF ceremony (which he was very much a part of) on the EPK. That's just silly what he did....plain and simple!

heardonthestreet wrote:Why are some of you conplaining so much that Perry dosen't feel he wants to give this band the time of day except to work at bringing back, by way of dvd, his time with them? What on earth do you expect? You bitch about his voice, his methodology, and his bandmates have dissed him. Why should you want his picture on Generations? You just can't stand that he and his loyal fans want nothing to do with this present Journey.

Get real Nig. The guys are loving his efforts to STILL make lots of $ for them by producing the Classic Journey dvd's.

I am sure anything that makes money makes them all happy. It would be nice if Perry had the attitude of, "Hey, I have no desire to be the lead singer for Journey anymore, but the fans deserve to hear the songs performed live. Anything I can do to help promote that, I am glad to do." I think rabid Perry fans like yourself don't give Augeri a fair shot because of Perry's attitude.

NealIsGod wrote: It would be nice if Perry had the attitude of, "Hey, I have no desire to be the lead singer for Journey anymore, but the fans deserve to hear the songs performed live.

Perry's not enough of a man to to this, IMO.
Just as he could not admit someone else can handle his job just fine.

I don't agree with Perry asking the guys not to continue Journey without him.
BUT I DO understand him not wanting to 'promote' Journey now. The WOF was more about what Journey had accomplished and Perry definately should have been a part of that. But I can see why he wouldn't lend his image to ANYTHING that is a part of Augeri-era Journey's promotion.
The material on the EPK is a bonus to help sell Journey's new CD "Generations", which has nothing to do with Perry. Makes sense to me.

I have two questions:

1) Why was Perry's image on the Frontiers European version of the CD w/EPK?

2) I notice that Perry's name IS on the writing credits for In Self Defense on the UK version. Why not the concert version?

jrnyman28 wrote:I have two questions:

1) Why was Perry's image on the Frontiers European version of the CD w/EPK?

2) I notice that Perry's name IS on the writing credits for In Self Defense on the UK version. Why not the concert version?

Interesting question to which we'll probably never hear answers.
Someone must have thought omitting Perry from the writing credits on the re-titled song on the concert version and the Frontiers release would be ok for whatever reason. I had assumed Perry in reality had nothing to do with writing the original. Evidently Perry's reps have requested that be changed for the US release.

jrnyman28 wrote:But I can see why he wouldn't lend his image to ANYTHING that is a part of Augeri-era Journey's promotion.

Because promoting Journey in any form helps sales of all Journey merchandise which makes everyone, including Perry, money. Think of the young people who may hear Generations, like it, and go out and buy previous Journey CDs and DVDs. I know when I first got ESC4P3, I had all the previous albums within 2 months.

NealIsGod wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:But I can see why he wouldn't lend his image to ANYTHING that is a part of Augeri-era Journey's promotion.

Because promoting Journey in any form helps sales of all Journey merchandise which makes everyone, including Perry, money. Think of the young people who may hear Generations, like it, and go out and buy previous Journey CDs and DVDs. I know when I first got ESC4P3, I had all the previous albums within 2 months.[/quote

..........................................................

On the other hand, the young folks who buy Generations and don't like it might not want to bother with Journeys previous albums. Hate to think that they might equate Generations with Classic Journey albums.

You didn't offend me at all NoMoreTails. Nobody did. I really enjoy being able to discuss these thing with you guys without all the hateful hostility. I hope none of us says anything to polarize the board and cause it to turn into a pissing match.

We obviously see things differently. I tend to see it more from a emotional standpoint on Steve's part, but I understand why you are more emotionally connected to the band. When you're talking about music, I think it's more of an artistic or creative, and therefore a more emotional, subject than in other types of work or team environments. I think that's why Steve may be feeling what he does on more of an emotional rather than business level. I also think that's part of the reason Neal was determined to have a Perryless Journey. He thought it was his band before Steve and it would be his band after. I'm not saying his feelings are invalid. I'm just saying that I think the decisions made on both their parts were coming from more than just business, or even music, related places in them. They had had a volatile relationship for years concerning Journey. Those feelings had to have to carried over into their decision making process even when logic would dictate otherwise. They're human beings. Creative, and therefore probably emotional human beings.

heardonthestreet wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:But I can see why he wouldn't lend his image to ANYTHING that is a part of Augeri-era Journey's promotion.

Because promoting Journey in any form helps sales of all Journey merchandise which makes everyone, including Perry, money. Think of the young people who may hear Generations, like it, and go out and buy previous Journey CDs and DVDs. I know when I first got ESC4P3, I had all the previous albums within 2 months.

..........................................................

On the other hand, the young folks who buy Generations and don't like it might not want to bother with Journeys previous albums. Hate to think that they might equate Generations with Classic Journey albums.

No, you're confusing Generations with Trial By Fire.

ohsherrie wrote:You didn't offend me at all NoMoreTails. Nobody did. I really enjoy being able to discuss these thing with you guys without all the hateful hostility. I hope none of us says anything to polarize the board and cause it to turn into a pissing match.

We obviously see things differently. I tend to see it more from a emotional standpoint on Steve's part, but I understand why you are more emotionally connected to the band. When you're talking about music, I think it's more of an artistic or creative, and therefore a more emotional, subject than in other types of work or team environments. I think that's why Steve may be feeling what he does on more of an emotional rather than business level. I also think that's part of the reason Neal was determined to have a Perryless Journey. He thought it was his band before Steve and it would be his band after. I'm not saying his feelings are invalid. I'm just saying that I think the decisions made on both their parts were coming from more than just business, or even music, related places in them. They had had a volatile relationship for years concerning Journey. Those feelings had to have to carried over into their decision making process even when logic would dictate otherwise. They're human beings. Creative, and therefore probably emotional human beings.

You make some great points, its been cool discussing with you as well.

heardonthestreet wrote:Why are some of you conplaining so much that Perry dosen't feel he wants to give this band the time of day except to work at bringing back, by way of dvd, his time with them? What on earth do you expect? You bitch about his voice, his methodology, and his bandmates have dissed him. Why should you want his picture on Generations? You just can't stand that he and his loyal fans want nothing to do with this present Journey.

Get real Nig. The guys are loving his efforts to STILL make lots of $ for them by producing the Classic Journey dvd's.

I'm in agreement with you HOTS! Why do you all want Perry's picture on Generations??? I thought this NEW Generation cd was "all new music" from the "current line up", so I don't understand why you would want Perry's picture on generations either.

Perry's time with the band was not with this particular current line up, so what is the problem???

Lori