MR

We all heared Steve Perry's singing at the White Sox parade and it was - terrible! However, how many of us can sing Don't Stop Believing without music and with a bunch of out of tune baseball players around us?

This kind of reminds me of the situation with Steve Walsh from Kansas. When Kansas released "Freaks of Nature" in 1994, Steve Walsh sounded absolutely horrible on alot of songs from that album. However, as things have progressed, Walsh has actually improved his voice greatly since '94! He'll never sound like he did in 1977, but how could anybody expect him to? We might be able to fight age with plastic surgery, and certainly a good vocal coach can help improve a voice, but I do not believe it is possible for any aging tenor rock singer to sound the same today as they would have in the 1970's. The only guy that comes to mind that still sounds great (and I haven't heard him in awhile,) is Dennis DeYoung. But..I digress...

The samething applies to Steve Perry as well. I have been watching the Greatest Hits DVD of Journey Videos all day today and the videos say alot about Perry's voice even in the 1980's. His voice "matured" greatly from 1978 to 1983. He developed a raspy voice that seemed more prominent on the ROR tour - at least what the music videos tell me. Now, I Still think he sounded great on the later live videos, but nothing like he sounded in 1978.

Let's face it, when a person matures, everything matures. The body itself starts shrinking, even though the nose and ears continue to grow. The voice declines as well. Could we expect Joe Montana to go back to the NFL and play Quarterback in his upper 40's? Of course not! So, why are we expecting Steve Perry to be able to sing "Don't Stop Believing" like he did, early in his career?" It's not going to happen, and judging his voice by what he did at the Sox' parade isn't a fair assessment. Let's face it, TBF was the way it was because Perry sounded better on the balladly songs. I think the worst song on the album was Castles Burning - a "rocker."

For today's standards with Journey..Neal wanting Journey to be more of a rock band than a pop band, then Steve Augeri is better suited for the job. Why? Well it's simple. Steve Augeri is much younger than Steve Perry, and Augeri's voice hasn't had the opportunity to go through the years of torture on tour like Perry's has. If Journey holds up another decade, do we really expect Augeri to sound the same as what he does today? That's not a realistic expectation. Myself personally, I can tell a difference with Augeri's voice between Red 13 and Generations. Not that it is a huge difference, but having him put a few years under his belt singing for Journey...it has to put a big strain on his voice. Look at the few problems he had on this past tour.

Believe me, Steve Perry still has the voice, it just isn't suited for rock these days. Maybe some upbeat pop tunes with a bit of rock, but I believe he has matured into more of a TBF singer....which isn't a bad thing because that album had some great songs on it. But, for the state of Journey and Steve Perry, today, Journey's better off with Steve Augeri. Augeri still has a few years before the loud rock music becomes more than what his tenor can muster. Think about how hard it is to sing a Journey rock song! Alot of rock songs don't necessarily require such strict melodic singing as what Journey rock songs require. It's a challenge for anybody's voice and I believe that is why filling Steve Perry's shoes is such a huge thing to do. I don't even believe Perry himself could fill those shoes at this point.

Singers like Perry and DeYoung have raised the bar so high for singers in rock music nowadays - it's no wonder that the majority of the bands have baritone singers! The point in my whole rambling is that I betcha if Perry recorded an album today, it would sound awesome. And, don't say..."well that's because of the machinery there to make people's voices sound great.." while that might be true to a certain extent..remember that all the other singers in this business probably use that same "machinery" so that's not a good excuse to be hatin' on the guy.

I'll continue to be hopeful that Perry returns to the music business as a full time singer - not behind the scenes. I'll also continue to pull for Journey as well. To me, it's the best of both worlds!

Greggie wrote:We all heared Steve Perry's singing at the White Sox parade and it was - terrible! However, how many of us can sing Don't Stop Believing without music and with a bunch of out of tune baseball players around us?

Why are we now equating Perry with the common man?
He is supposed to be the one, the only, "the Voice", remember?

Greggie wrote:He'll never sound like he did in 1977, but how could anybody expect him to?

The casual public at large does.
Their largely aghast reaction in Chicago verfied that.

Greggie wrote: So, why are we expecting Steve Perry to be able to sing "Don't Stop Believing" like he did, early in his career?"

I'm not.
Neither is Andrew, Dave, Monker, NIG or Deano.
Were you?
Who are you talking about?
Everyone here said he'd suck and he did.

Greggie wrote:Myself personally, I can tell a difference with Augeri's voice between Red 13 and Generations.

This is bogus.
What difference between Red 13 and Generations?
Cite specific examples.

Greggie wrote:Look at the few problems he had on this past tour.

The only one that I am aware of is the fact that he didn't get to sing until an hour into the show (due to the pre-perry material). I saw him in September and he hit every note and then some. I had seen him four times prior and this year he was impeccable. Dave said the same thing when he saw him.

Greggie wrote:Believe me, Steve Perry still has the voice

Sorry, I heard it with my own ears and I can't believe you.

First of all, calm yourself down and take a few steps back. I did say in my opening sentence that Perry's Sox parade thing was terrible. I'm not sure how much clearer I can get with that, but I'm open to suggestions...maybe pictures or something.

Secondly, you have your opinion, I have mine. If you can sum up Perry at this point by what you heard at that parade, then you're a better man than me. Myself, personally, I'd rather judge him by listening to a new album from him, IF of course it happens.

Thirdly, what I stated about Augeri wasn't a knock on him, so there is no need to get your panties in a wad. Like you guys not bowing down and worshipping everything you hear and see from Steve Perry, I'm not going to do that with either Perry or Augeri. I thought Augeri has sounded pretty good on Arrival, Red 13, and Generations. After listening to Red 13 and Generations today, I believe Augeri sounds better on Red 13 than Generations. That is my opinion. I think Augeri sounds best on "The Time." I believe I hear just a touch of rasp on a few songs on Generations. Nothing to get anybody upset over.

Lastly, I'm not putting anybody on a pedestal. Perry is human like anybody else. Don't accuse me of thinking otherwise. I've heard enough from aging tenor rock stars to know for fact that the years of touring and singing in a rock band catches up with any singer. It's a proven fact. It will do the same to Augeri if Journey continues on for another decade. That doesn't mean that Augeri WON'T be able to sing and sound good at that point...it just means it will be tougher for him to continue singing in that genre of music....JUST LIKE STEVE PERRY. It's really not so difficult to understand. I'm not taking sides with this. I'm stating it the way I see it.

Greggie wrote: If you can sum up Perry at this point by what you heard at that parade, then you're a better man than me.

The parade is just one of many things. His reluctance to tour with Journey, the horrid FTLOSM boots available on the web, the Bill Graham tribute where he sucked etc. etc

Greggie wrote:After listening to Red 13 and Generations today, I believe Augeri sounds better on Red 13 than Generations. That is my opinion.

I've heard both and I don't hear any discernible difference. On Generations, Augeri gets to stretch out and use his lower range some more. Maybe that's what you're mistaking as "rasp".
Generations has 12 tracks whereas Red 13 has only four.
It's only natural that you will hear more dimensions of his voice on a full album, as opposed to an EP.

Maybe so, I don't know. My point is, what I have heard from Perry in the 90's has sounded good to me. Certainly not the perfect voice we heard in the late 70's and early 80's, but still sounded much better than alot of what I heard during that decade. That isn't throwing out worship to Perry, that's realizing the guy's voice isn't what it used to be, but still a whole heck of alot better than what I've heard from other singers. And, it's only natural that since he hasn't been active in singing, and apparently healthy living, his age will continue to mature his voice even further. That is why I believe Perry's strengths lies in songs like When You Love A Woman rather than Don't Stop Believin. All singers go through that. Perry, Delp, Walsh..etc...

Lemme put it to you this way. I am probably a bigger Kansas fan than Journey - although Journey is an extremely close second. I can tell you that Steve Walsh's voice was so horrid in the 90's, that it nearly made me cry everytime I heard his voice. Talk about a voice that fell so far from what it was in the late 70's. I'll tell you like it is, his voice has greatly improved since that point (thank goodness,) but he cannot cover those old Kansas hits exactly like he did in '78. He'll never be able to, partly do to probably excessive living and age. As big of a fan of Kansas as I am, and knowing I'll buy whatever new stuff they give us, it's never as good as what the 70's stuff was. Walsh sounds better with the lower range stuff now...just like Perry, just like Delp, etc....

We're fooling ourselves to think that won't happen to Augeri. Unless he finds the fountain of youth, it's going to happen to Augeri as well. BUT, as I have said before, Augeri is BETTER for Journey at this point than Perry, simply for the heavier rock direction the band is taking. If they kept in the direction of TBF, that might be a different story.

Sorry, the reason why I was mention Kansas was to prove that no matter how bad a singer can fall and believe me, I have a live Kansas cd to prove my point, they can improve up to better standards. This was a live Kansas CD put out for sell, not the singer singing after a baseball game.

You rock Greggie. You're the Voice of reason on this board. Some people seem to be trying too hard to make sure there is a consensus of opinion that Steve sounded bad. To be fair, there are others who would have people think he sounded better than he did. What we all need to do is be a little more objective about it.

Steve isn't going to sound like the recording, I don't expect him to. He isn't going to sound like he's performing a concert when he's just having fun, I don't expect him to. His voice isn't going to sound like it did 25 yrs ago, I don't expect it to. Steve Augeri wouldn't sound like he does today if the band had toured and recorded his pipes to death the way they did Steve Perry's, I wouldn't expect him to.

People say the overzealous Perry fans make this into a competion of the frontmen, I've never really thought that was entirely true, now I'm sure it isn't.

Steve Perry still has a wonderful, soulful voice, and could still record a killer album, but I don't expect him to. I just appreciate and enjoy what he's already given us, and I'll keep hoping for something that I don't expect. I also enjoy seeing him get the credit he deserves for what he's done, like being asked to be with a World Series winning team because of a song he sang.

Greggie wrote:
We're fooling ourselves to think that won't happen to Augeri. Unless he finds the fountain of youth, it's going to happen to Augeri as well.

It won't matter anyway..The band won't be around long enough for us to see Augeri's voice decline..

Rock'ndeano wrote:

Greggie wrote:
We're fooling ourselves to think that won't happen to Augeri. Unless he finds the fountain of youth, it's going to happen to Augeri as well.

It won't matter anyway..The band won't be around long enough for us to see Augeri's voice decline..

I agree.
Once Augeri can't handle the material, he will respectfully bow out.

Rock'ndeano wrote:

Greggie wrote:
We're fooling ourselves to think that won't happen to Augeri. Unless he finds the fountain of youth, it's going to happen to Augeri as well.

It won't matter anyway..The band won't be around long enough for us to see Augeri's voice decline..

You're probably right.

Interesting comments.

ohsherrie wrote:Steve Perry still has a wonderful, soulful voice, and could still record a killer album.

Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't.
I can't dwell on "what ifs".
What I do know (and what we are discussing) is his performance in front of 1.75 million fans was incontrovertibly horrid.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

ohsherrie wrote:Steve Perry still has a wonderful, soulful voice, and could still record a killer album.

Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't.
I can't dwell on "what ifs".
What I do know (and what we are discussing) is his performance in front of 1.75 million fans was incontrovertibly horrid.

I hope you didn't think I was debating that point NC, because I agree with you that THAT performance is one I would much rather just forget I ever heard.

I think the question of debate is, is this the end of the road for Perry's voice, or, judging by my Steve Walsh example, can he work himself back into "shape" and record good albums again. It's hard to bank on what if's, but I don't think the debate on that will ever be satisfied until Perry does something new.

Greggie wrote:I think the question of debate is, is this the end of the road for Perry's voice, or, judging by my Steve Walsh example, can he work himself back into "shape" and record good albums again. It's hard to bank on what if's, but I don't think the debate on that will ever be satisfied until Perry does something new.

I don't know. He could've possibly stayed with Journey, but that would've spelt the end to hearing the classics live. The band would forever be limited to new tunes that were written with his diminished range in mind. I think currently Perry can do alot of things (Sam Cooke covers, some new material) I just don't think he can do older Journey material ever again.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Greggie wrote:I think the question of debate is, is this the end of the road for Perry's voice, or, judging by my Steve Walsh example, can he work himself back into "shape" and record good albums again. It's hard to bank on what if's, but I don't think the debate on that will ever be satisfied until Perry does something new.

I don't know. He could've possibly stayed with Journey, but that would've spelt the end to hearing the classics live. The band would forever be limited to new tunes that were written with his diminished range in mind. I think currently Perry can do alot of things (Sam Cooke covers, some new material) I just don't think he can do older Journey material ever again.

Well, I realize that this takes Perry having to check his ego at the door, but IF for some strange reason, Perry came back to Journey(not saying I want this though,) at least he does have Deen to help him out. It's not like Perry would have to do it all by himself.

For instance, take Boston for example. Brad Delp can't reach some of those high notes, and he has to use more of his lower range nowadays. When Brad can't hit those high notes, Fran hits 'em. That's probably what it would take for Perry and Journey to cover the earlier hits. Heck, maybe even have Deen sing a few of the songs. I DO realize this is an unrealistic thing we're talking about - but I believe it would work.

Greggie wrote:Well, I realize that this takes Perry having to check his ego at the door, but IF for some strange reason, Perry came back to Journey(not saying I want this though,) at least he does have Deen to help him out.

Once Rolie left, Perry prohibited the shared vocal duets from ever being sung again. Not out of any deep respect for Gregg (as some Perrynutbags are sure to spin it) but because he hated the idea of sharing the microphone. Maybe he has matured a bit and would be open to the idea of sharing vocals w/ Deen, but I doubt it.

Perry's not coming back for starters, but if he did, I imagine Deen would be out the door and Smitty would be lured back in.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Greggie wrote:Well, I realize that this takes Perry having to check his ego at the door, but IF for some strange reason, Perry came back to Journey(not saying I want this though,) at least he does have Deen to help him out.

Once Rolie left, Perry prohibited the shared vocal duets from ever being sung again. Not out of any deep respect for Gregg (as some Perrynutbags are sure to spin it) but because he hated the idea of sharing the microphone. Maybe he has matured a bit and would be open to the idea of sharing vocals w/ Deen, but I doubt it.

Perry's not coming back for starters, but if he did, I imagine Deen would be out the door and Smitty would be lured back in.

Possibly so, but then again, it's all speculative. I've learned never to say never. As long as the band is somewhat active, and at least Perry, Schon, and Cain are all still alive and kickin', there is always that chance.....of course there is a chance for me to win 100 million dollars, but it isn't likely.

Actually, I am listening to Generations right now, and maybe I was wrong about Augeri being a little more raspy. I do think however, this album doesn't test Augeri's range that much. Maybe that is why I thought he sounded better on Red 13 - "The Time" tested his vocal range toward the end there. I would love to hear some Journey tunes that remind me of songs from Infinity or Departure.

Greggie wrote:I do think however, this album doesn't test Augeri's range that much.

You're kidding, right? The only song that isn't a vocal tour de force is "Butterfly" and even then he still hits some highs.

'Believe' (as bad as it is) is probably one of his most impressive vocals to date. Same with "Knowing that You Love Me" - he pushes himself to the brink and back on that one.

Greggie wrote:Maybe that is why I thought he sounded better on Red 13 - "The Time" tested his vocal range toward the end there.

Listen again. The vocal climax at the end of "The Time" is not natural and shows obvious signs of post-production tinkering.

After seeing Journey many times since 98, including a few this past tour, I feel that Augeri has just hit his prime. The only negative remarks I recall from the tour were after the first few shows. Even though I thought he was great before, he has shocked me at how he has improved.

NoMoreTails wrote:After seeing Journey many times since 98, including a few this past tour, I feel that Augeri has just hit his prime. The only negative remarks I recall from the tour were after the first few shows. Even though I thought he was great before, he has shocked me at how he has improved.

Agreed. He hit every note when I saw him in September. Before I went to the concert Dave told me Augeri was sounding even better than on the 2001 dvd. I called him a liar. The dvd was mixed by Kevin Shirley and utilized some over dubs. There was no way a live concert could sound better than a refined polished dvd, or so I thought. Dave was right though. Augeri was flawless.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Greggie wrote:I do think however, this album doesn't test Augeri's range that much.

You're kidding, right? The only song that isn't a vocal tour de force is "Butterfly" and even then he still hits some highs.

'Believe' (as bad as it is) is probably one of his most impressive vocals to date. Same with "Knowing that You Love Me" - he pushes himself to the brink and back on that one.

Greggie wrote:Maybe that is why I thought he sounded better on Red 13 - "The Time" tested his vocal range toward the end there.

Listen again. The vocal climax at the end of "The Time" is not natural and shows obvious signs of post-production tinkering.

I'll have to listen to it again NC.

When I saw Journey back in 1998, I was blown away by Steve Augeri's performance.

Perry's not coming back for starters, but if he did, I imagine Deen would be out the door and Smitty would be lured back in.

Can't see that as ever happening since Deen can...and will.... blow him off the stage.

After seeing Journey many times since 98, including a few this past tour, I feel that Augeri has just hit his prime.

I agree. Anybody who has followed Journey with Steve Augeri, and goes to concerts will likely agree.

What I do know (and what we are discussing) is his performance in front of 1.75 million fans was incontrovertibly horrid.

Which begs the question, since Perry is supposed to be such a perfectionist, WHY did he put himself out there and allow this to happen? Was he loaded, or did he think in his arrogance that he could actually pull it off?

Greggie wrote:[I think the question of debate is, is this the end of the road for Perry's voice, or, judging by my Steve Walsh example, can he work himself back into "shape" and record good albums again.

The problem is that Perry sounded closer to Joe Walsh.

I don't think it's a think where Perry was taking it seriously....maybe he's finally reached the point in his life where he doesn't care..he just wants to go out and have fun. Heck, he's earned it. The whole band has.

Greggie wrote:I don't think it's a think where Perry was taking it seriously....maybe he's finally reached the point in his life where he doesn't care..he just wants to go out and have fun. Heck, he's earned it. The whole band has.

EXACTLY!!

Wasn't it said here that letting Ross and Neal sing on Gens was all about just doing what the band wanted to do?

Greggie wrote:I don't think it's a think where Perry was taking it seriously....maybe he's finally reached the point in his life where he doesn't care..he just wants to go out and have fun. Heck, he's earned it. The whole band has.

Yes, BUT..If you are the music business, you have peers as well as fans. You don't want to get lazy and put out shit....

Even Perry himself said, "don't tarnish the stone" meaning don't lessen the quality of the Band..Little did he know that stone was soon rubbed into ruby, then into diamonds......

That bit him square in the ass!