MR

I know this subject has come up before...BUT how many of you think the release of the ESCAPE tour DVD is...well..I won't say hindering...but maybe contradicting Journey's plans to move beyond the Steve Perry era, which I know they will never be able to do completely anyway....I'm just interested in what you all think off the top of your head right now...Especially Neal and Jon, who by the way haven't had much to say(publicly) at all about this DVD...

I think that it's their best record since ROR. Many think it's the best since Frontiers. I am disapointed that more has not been done to promote it. I figured the label would not do a TON with the giveaway being done at shows, but come on. I really think they can get more airplay out of TPIYH if the people who are supposed to push it did so.
I don't get it.

I look at FYE and see big standup cardbord stands for this band Rick Wills is in called The Jones Gang, their promo vids are on the tvs in FYE....

WTF?

There must be something going on that I don't know. I said back in 2001, when they had NO promotion by Sony, that all this just does not make any sense at all.

Something is going on that we don't see or know about. I mean think about it. When a band and a label contract with each other what is the objective? To make money for both parties. IT MAKES NO SENSE WHY THE LABEL ISN'T PROMOTING IT. Because it would make the label money to do so.

If you think about this too long it will make your head hurt.

By the way, I don't know why I care to think of it anyway. I ain't making any money thinking about it. So who cares? Sorry for the fatalistic attitude but oh well.

YES

They need a new manager who will got to bat for them, not one who only cares about the Eagles.-ERIC

To be completely honest Jetster, yes I think the release of the DVD will refocus the attention of the general fan base on the Perry era. However, I also think the band and it's management could have done a little more to counterbalance that by handling the Generations release differently. The fact that they didn't makes me wonder if they thought there was much of a chance for it to begin with. Maybe, based on their experience with Arrival and Red13, they decided they would ultimately gain more financially from the DVD, but wouldn't go so far as to promote it above their own offering. Generations, and the way it was handled, may have been targeted primarily for the core fanbase of the band as it is today. Perhaps they(label, band, management,etc) knew there wasn't likely to be a big ROI with Generations and decided to do what they could to call attention to it without a huge initial investment. If they'd gotten decent airplay and sales they may have had a backup plan to push it harder, who knows?

Of course this is all just speculation, but that's really all we can do to try and explain why any of them do what they do.

There really isn't a radio format in which new songs by "classic rock" artists get regular airplay. Generations isn't the type of album that would have mainstream appeal. Slowly, Journey is attracting younger fans of hard rock music...some too young to even remember Journey in their prime. Unlike groups like Aerosmith and Van Halen, Journey was on hiatus too long. Those ten years of minimal or no activity stalled the growth of the fan base and made a new comeback unlikely, or even impossible. Given this, it doesn't make sense to lay out a significant amount of promotional money if the potential return doesn't justify it. Giving it away at concerts (in cheap packaging) allowed the band to charge a bit more per ticket. This is almost like forced album sales. Middlemen and retail are cut out and the band profits. Consider the amount of lost retail profits due to illegal downloading and buy-and-resell. I wouldn't be surprised if the band profited more per "free" disc than per retail disc. The best promotion is something the band is already doing...playing at least five songs off the new album. The problem? Most fans get up to go get a beer/go to the restroom during the new songs. Most fans don't know these songs...and because they are so different stylistically from hits, few fans (per my observation) even tried to "get into" them.

What I can't figure out is why the fuck did Journey even go with Sanctuary anyway? Is it a full fledged label deal or just a distribution deal? Frontiers over in Europe has certainly done a better job at getting Generations promoted across the pond and that has probably been directly responsible for getting the concert promoters to take notice and finally getting Journey over there to play next summer.

Europe, Australia, and most of the rest of the industrialized world has always been more attuned to the sound of the music and what they enjoy about it rather than the genre or the name. They don't have the media catagorization of music that we have here. It's too much about the business(AKA money), and the effect of the press on the business, in this country, rather than the music for it's art. Corporate Rock and commercialization are not only foreign to their language, but also their culture.

I think the first three songs are great. FITH would have rivaled Separate Ways as an Album rock favorite if it was 1985 and not 2005.


Like someone else said.........There is no place to get these songs played anymore.

Another factor to think about......with IPODS and outlets like Sirus, there are so many more choices than we had as kids.

Growing up in MN, basically all I had was KQRS to listen to and I just don't think kids listen to the radio much anymore.

usedtobadnews61 wrote:I think the first three songs are great. FITH would have rivaled Separate Ways as an Album rock favorite if it was 1985 and not 2005.


Like someone else said.........There is no place to get these songs played anymore.

Another factor to think about......with IPODS and outlets like Sirus, there are so many more choices than we had as kids.

Growing up in MN, basically all I had was KQRS to listen to and I just don't think kids listen to the radio much anymore.

Yet, people have heard TPIYH on radion intermittantly all over (not me yet, I'm working on it), and Dean says it's on pretty regularly in LA. This makes me think someone did the job of GETTING it to radio, but not the SELLING part of making sure it got more that a few spins. AKay, have you guys done Faith In The Heartland, yet?

jrnyjetster wrote::? What I can't figure out is why the fuck did Journey even go with Sanctuary anyway? Is it a full fledged label deal or just a distribution deal?

I asked this same question on BT a few days after the announcement was made.

http://www.journeymusic.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/026947.html

Is this a record deal or a distribution deal?

I think the selling part really means payola. How much is the band or record company willing to pay to get the spins you are talking about.

Plus, the fact that Perry is the lead singer influences some stations as well I bet. Even though Augeri is stellar on this CD.

Red13JoePa wrote:

usedtobadnews61 wrote:I think the first three songs are great. FITH would have rivaled Separate Ways as an Album rock favorite if it was 1985 and not 2005.


Like someone else said.........There is no place to get these songs played anymore.

Another factor to think about......with IPODS and outlets like Sirus, there are so many more choices than we had as kids.

Growing up in MN, basically all I had was KQRS to listen to and I just don't think kids listen to the radio much anymore.

Yet, people have heard TPIYH on radion intermittantly all over (not me yet, I'm working on it), and Dean says it's on pretty regularly in LA. This makes me think someone did the job of GETTING it to radio, but not the SELLING part of making sure it got more that a few spins. AKay, have you guys done Faith In The Heartland, yet?

What if Journey had released this DVD/CD Live thing with a short promotion of Generation at the beginning? Maybe have an "extras" part on the DVD, where people could listen to either one full length song from post Perry albums, or one minute sound bytes of each song?

Greggie wrote:What if Journey had released this DVD/CD Live thing with a short promotion of Generation at the beginning? Maybe have an "extras" part on the DVD, where people could listen to either one full length song from post Perry albums, or one minute sound bytes of each song?

This was Perry's baby...let's get real here..do you actually think he would allow that?

jrnyjetster wrote:

Greggie wrote:What if Journey had released this DVD/CD Live thing with a short promotion of Generation at the beginning? Maybe have an "extras" part on the DVD, where people could listen to either one full length song from post Perry albums, or one minute sound bytes of each song?

This was Perry's baby...let's get real here..do you actually think he would allow that?

What choice would Perry have had? If the band management had told him,"We'll give you permission if you allow us to promote the band's current material on the DVD," then Perry would either say okay, or choose not to release the material. At least, that is my understanding by him getting permission from the band to release the footage.

I would have loved to see a packaging of the Houston DVD with the 2005 DVD that Journey is planning to release.

But I am glad that Journey did not hold Perry to a compromise with new material on this DVD. We would never have gotten this DVD if that were the case. But I DO think that the Journey website addy should be on the packaging. A simple "For more information about Journey please visit www.journeymusic.com" blurb on the back of the case would be sufficient IMO...

jrnyman28 wrote:I would have loved to see a packaging of the Houston DVD with the 2005 DVD that Journey is planning to release.

But I am glad that Journey did not hold Perry to a compromise with new material on this DVD. We would never have gotten this DVD if that were the case. But I DO think that the Journey website addy should be on the packaging. A simple "For more information about Journey please visit www.journeymusic.com" blurb on the back of the case would be sufficient IMO...

Yeah, I agree. We wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to own something like this. Lemme tell ya, I'll probably be first in line to pick up the DVD on release day!

I also agree about the website address....nothing wrong with putting it on the package. I never stopped to think to look on the Greatest Hits DVD to see if it was on there.

It's not.

I am guessing that Perry does not want to even hint at Journey continuing without him. And adding the website addy would send people straight to a place where they would find that out.

Seems like we had a discussion along these lines a while back? For all we know these kinds of options may have been part of what held up the release of this DVD last year. Someone said before that Steve had to sign off on the band's recording of the 2005 DVD. Don't you think there's a possibility that keeping the DVDs and band identities completely separate could have been one of the bargaining chips? Seems logical to me.

******CAUTION!!!******POSSIBLE INFLAMATORY MATERIAL******

This comment is in no way meant to be derrogatory of the new band. I've heard their music and like a lot of it, so what I'm saying here has nothing to do with the quality of the work the band has produced. It also has nothing to do with my being a Perry fan. It's all just what I logically think about this subject.

I really don't see why it's important for Steve to be friendly toward the band. It's totally unrealistic to expect him to help promote a venture that he was passionately against and has no reason to have changed his mind about. If he's making any money off of it, it doesn't seem to be all that important to him.

I know some of you would like to have him endorse this new band in some way, but I don't think that would really help all that much as far as the general classic Journey fanbase is concerned. If he ain't singin' it, a lot of them just don't want it, under the name Journey. I'm not saying the band's material would sell any better under another name, or that new Perry/Journey material would sell any better. I'm just saying that a large segment of the fanbase that filled those stadiums think of Steve Perry and Journey as an entity and only want it that way.

I really don't see him doing PRommercials for them, do you? His allowing the old material to help sell the new might possibly help get exposure for the new, but the old music hasn't sold the new in the concerts. Unless you think Steve Perry's performances of the old material on this DVD would be of advantage, and I don't think any Augeri fans want to say that, there's nothing to be gained.

ohsherrie wrote:Seems like we had a discussion along these lines a while back? For all we know these kinds of options may have been part of what held up the release of this DVD last year. Someone said before that Steve had to sign off on the band's recording of the 2005 DVD. Don't you think there's a possibility that keeping the DVDs and band identities completely separate could have been one of the bargaining chips? Seems logical to me.

******CAUTION!!!******POSSIBLE INFLAMATORY MATERIAL******

This comment is in no way meant to be derrogatory of the new band. I've heard their music and like a lot of it, so what I'm saying here has nothing to do with the quality of the work the band has produced. It also has nothing to do with my being a Perry fan. It's all just what I logically think about this subject.

I really don't see why it's important for Steve to be friendly toward the band. It's totally unrealistic to expect him to help promote a venture that he was passionately against and has no reason to have changed his mind about. If he's making any money off of it, it doesn't seem to be all that important to him.

I know some of you would like to have him endorse this new band in some way, but I don't think that would really help all that much as far as the general classic Journey fanbase is concerned. If he ain't singin' it, a lot of them just don't want it, under the name Journey. I'm not saying the band's material would sell any better under another name, or that new Perry/Journey material would sell any better. I'm just saying that a large segment of the fanbase that filled those stadiums think of Steve Perry and Journey as an entity and only want it that way.

I really don't see him doing PRommercials for them, do you? His allowing the old material to help sell the new might possibly help get exposure for the new, but the old music hasn't sold the new in the concerts. Unless you think Steve Perry's performances of the old material on this DVD would be of advantage, and I don't think any Augeri fans want to say that, there's nothing to be gained.

VERY GOOD POINT-ERIC

See Sherrie, that is basically what I was saying as well. We don't expect Perry to aid Journey in any way...and the web address would lead people to the information. The blurb I suggested would in no way inform people of Journey continuing, but then it would still lead them to that info. I don't really think the original deal about the 2001 DVD would have anything to do with what is happening now. I think it was an individual case of 'you can oversee the edit the show if we can release a DVD with Steve singing 'your' era material'. I think each one of these is probably case by case since we never really know when Perry will feel like 'working' on these projects. And honestly, Perry still sort of holds the cards. If he doesn't like the terms than the project can just sit...and I think Journey would rather get the material out to the fans than quibble over little things like a website address. (Just in case.....IMO.)

jrnyman28 wrote:See Sherrie, that is basically what I was saying as well. We don't expect Perry to aid Journey in any way...and the web address would lead people to the information. The blurb I suggested would in no way inform people of Journey continuing, but then it would still lead them to that info. I don't really think the original deal about the 2001 DVD would have anything to do with what is happening now. I think it was an individual case of 'you can oversee the edit the show if we can release a DVD with Steve singing 'your' era material'. I think each one of these is probably case by case since we never really know when Perry will feel like 'working' on these projects. And honestly, Perry still sort of holds the cards. If he doesn't like the terms than the project can just sit...and I think Journey would rather get the material out to the fans than quibble over little things like a website address. (Just in case.....IMO.)

I think the Houston '81 DVD was a tradeoff for the 2005 DVD. I hope they will all keep doing whatever it takes to get the fans, on both sides, what they want. In the case of showing the web address on the label, that would be a form of acknowledgement, and that's just not going to happen Dave. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, only that that's the way it is.

ohsherrie wrote:I think the Houston '81 DVD was a tradeoff for the 2005 DVD. I hope they will all keep doing whatever it takes to get the fans, on both sides, what they want. In the case of showing the web address on the label, that would be a form of acknowledgement, and that's just not going to happen Dave. I'm not saying that's right or wrong, only that that's the way it is.

Agreed on all counts...

ohsherrie wrote:I really don't see why it's important for Steve to be friendly toward the band. It's totally unrealistic to expect him to help promote a venture that he was passionately against and has no reason to have changed his mind about. If he's making any money off of it, it doesn't seem to be all that important to him.

You know why it would be nice, ohsherrie? Because Steve obviously has no desire to be in an active touring band. Even if his voice was still perfect, he knows that his physical limitations (his words in the CRL interview) and his current lifestyle would prevent him from being in the band anyway. Isn't it unfair to the other band members to let Journey die simply because Perry isn't into it anymore? The classy thing to do would be for Perry to admit this and give his musical comrades his admiration for not letting the musical heritage of Journey wither and die. The classy thing to do would be to show up on stage at a Journey concert once in a while and treat the fans to a song or two. Augeri would gladly hand him the mic. Then all of us fans could get along.

NealIsGod wrote:. Even if his voice was still perfect, he knows that his physical limitations (his words in the CRL interview) and his current lifestyle would prevent him from being in the band anyway.

Stop right there.

Point 1- His limitations are/is his voice.

Point 2- Current lifestyle? What, playing with his cats, and mixing a 25 yr old concert in 2 yrs? Come on.

Rock'ndeano wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:. Even if his voice was still perfect, he knows that his physical limitations (his words in the CRL interview) and his current lifestyle would prevent him from being in the band anyway.

Stop right there.

Point 1- His limitations are/is his voice.

Point 2- Current lifestyle? What, playing with his cats, and mixing a 25 yr old concert in 2 yrs? Come on.

Point 1 - I don't think Perry meant his voice when he mentioned physical limitations the oin CRL interview. And, of course, he leaves us guessing like he always does.

Point 2 - He is a man who has been through all the touring and stuff. He is 56 and likes his life the way it is. Nothing wrong with that. He has no desire to be in Journey, so why not give the rest of the guys kudos for wanting to carry it on?

NealIsGod wrote:
You know why it would be nice, ohsherrie? Because Steve obviously has no desire to be in an active touring band. Even if his voice was still perfect, he knows that his physical limitations (his words in the CRL interview) and his current lifestyle would prevent him from being in the band anyway. Isn't it unfair to the other band members to let Journey die simply because Perry isn't into it anymore? The classy thing to do would be for Perry to admit this and give his musical comrades his admiration for not letting the musical heritage of Journey wither and die. The classy thing to do would be to show up on stage at a Journey concert once in a while and treat the fans to a song or two. Augeri would gladly hand him the mic. Then all of us fans could get along.

I'm sure there are some people, including the band, that would think that would be a nice thing for him to do. All I was saying is that there's nothing real for the band to gain from it as far as their sales and musical recognition. The human feelings involved for them and the fans are just like all human feelings, very subjective and inexplicable, and have nothing to do with music or the success of the band. Neither do Steve's reasons for not touring or recording. If you wanted Steve back in the band I could see why the rift between them would bother you, but if you're happy with the band as it is, why worry about it? That's why I don't understand why it continues to be such a hot button issue on the boards.

Do you think Mr. Perry receives any part of the 'proceeds' from Generations? If that's the case, you'd think he'd want the album to do well, since it would be in his best interest. I wonder if the band sent him a copy of Generations and he listened to it? I'd bet he's listened to Arrival and watched the 2001 DVD at least once, too, but he'd never admit it, of course.

If he has, he is classier than other former singers have been, unless he couldn't find anything to rip about it.

Sammy Hagar ripped Van Halen 3 right out of the gate.

Maybe that infamous gag order still applies.

jrnyjetster wrote::idea: Do you think Mr. Perry receives any part of the 'proceeds' from Generations? If that's the case, you'd think he'd want the album to do well, since it would be in his best interest. I wonder if the band sent him a copy of Generations and he listened to it? I'd bet he's listened to Arrival and watched the 2001 DVD at least once, too, but he'd never admit it, of course.

jrnyjetster wrote::idea: Do you think Mr. Perry receives any part of the 'proceeds' from Generations? If that's the case, you'd think he'd want the album to do well, since it would be in his best interest. I wonder if the band sent him a copy of Generations and he listened to it? I'd bet he's listened to Arrival and watched the 2001 DVD at least once, too, but he'd never admit it, of course.

The only way Perry might benefit from "Generations" is from In Self Defense. He does still have a songwriting credit for that one. And while it is possible that Perry has heard Arrival, I don't find it impossible that he has never watched the DVD.