MR

What's the deal with this? I understand no Red 13 or Generations (not released on Columbia), but why leave off Journey's first 3 records, and Arrival on the last page of the DVD booklet? I know it was a Perry project but if you're a record label, aren't you going to want to promote ALL your releases? I noticed the same thing was done with the GH DVD, but made the assumption this was because the specified time frame of the DVD (1978-1997 or whatever). And how is Kalodner still involved in Columbia releases when he's working for Sanctuary?!?

Jeremey wrote:What's the deal with this? I understand no Red 13 or Generations (not released on Columbia), but why leave off Journey's first 3 records, and Arrival on the last page of the DVD booklet? I know it was a Perry project but if you're a record label, aren't you going to want to promote ALL your releases? I noticed the same thing was done with the GH DVD, but made the assumption this was because the specified time frame of the DVD (1978-1997 or whatever). And how is Kalodner still involved in Columbia releases when he's working for Sanctuary?!?

That's just Perry perpetuating the myth that Journey did not exist before or after he was in the group. Jackass.

NiG has got it right! I thought the same thing, where are the rest of Journey's Columbia/Sony releases? It's just Perry promoting Perry-era. I even 'understood' Arrival's omission because of the bad taste in EVERYONE's mouth on that one...but.......

And Kalodner still has Sony connections. I think these DVD releases were all "agreed" to before JDK left Sony.

Generations and Red 13 I could 'possibly' understand, but the 3 pre-perry albums, Arrival AND the 2001 dvd being omitted?
Fuck that.
As a Journey fan I'm offended.
To think I was about to go blow my paycheck on the dvd today..I'll prolly go spend it on Generations instead.


Can't wait to hear the 'Loons spin on this one.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Generations and Red 13 I could 'possibly' understand, but the 3 pre-perry albums, Arrival AND the 2001 dvd being omitted?
Fuck that.
As a Journey fan I'm offended.
To think I was about to go blow my paycheck on the dvd today..I'll prolly go spend it on Generations instead.


Can't wait to hear the 'Loons spin on this one.

To be honest, if you haven't gotten "Generations" yet then please pick it up. I haven't watched the DVD yet, but the CD is sounding great. But it can wait until after you purchase a current Journey product...

jrnyman28 wrote:
To be honest, if you haven't gotten "Generations" yet then please pick it up.

I have two concert copies, I just dont know if I wanna blow 20 bucks for one Deen tune.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:Can't wait to hear the 'Loons spin on this one.

Well 'phile, there's no spin to put on it. From Columbia's standpoint, what would be the point of promoting the pre-Perry work at this point? Most of the general Journey fanbase that were fans of Escape don't even care about anything that came before Perry and that's not likely to change. Even though there's a larger following for the band now than there was for the pre-Perry band, Arrival wasn't much of a moneymaker for them and that's not likely to change at this point either. They make money off the Perry/Journey lineup, so if Steve chooses not to do anything that even hints at promotion of the band as it is, which is certainly his right, it's unlikely that they're going to quibble over it much.

Maybe this is a clue to what was behind Jon calling this the Perry thing and saying Steve wished this band would just go away.

Somehow they got away with no arrival mention or 2001 dvd mention (or preperry) on the essentials, the GHI dvd, and now this. I think the omission would have to be up to Sony/Columbia. Those are their products. That to me is telling. It could only help Columbia material to have it advertized in these things, so wtf?

I could take it as an insult to Journey that Arrival is not included. It may be one of Perry demands that Sony agreed to. It is or was on the DVD website however.
The way I look at it, Perry's working to help Sony squeeze yet another dollar out of rehashed ancient history Journey, with Journey and Perry making pennies on the dollar.
Perry is Sony's bitch now, Journey no longer is.

Red13JoePa wrote:Somehow they got away with no arrival mention or 2001 dvd mention (or preperry) on the essentials, the GHI dvd, and now this. I think the omission would have to be up to Sony/Columbia. Those are their products. That to me is telling. It could only help Columbia material to have it advertized in these things, so wtf?

Regarding so called Essential Journey (aka Rehashed Greatest Hits Along With The Songs You Casual Fans Really Should Get To Know But All You'll Buy Is Greatest Hits), wasn't it actually released at about the same time as Arrival? Sony and KLODner, intended to sabotage that album, hoping Perry would limp back imo.

Regarding your alternate title for Essentials: as usual.

Arrival was 4/3/01, so-called "Essentials" was mid-late 10/01.

NoMoreTails wrote:Regarding so called Essential Journey (aka Rehashed Greatest Hits Along With The Songs You Casual Fans Really Should Get To Know But All You'll Buy Is Greatest Hits), wasn't it actually released at about the same time as Arrival? Sony and KLODner, intended to sabotage that album, hoping Perry would limp back imo.

I doubt that it was sabotage NMT, Sony wouldn't want to make themselve lose money. Wasn't the GH re-released around the same time as TBF? It sold well, and still does, so maybe they were trying that same sort of formula. Also, if they were skeptical about the potential sales of Arrival, they may have seen the issuing of EJ as a possible way of compensating.

Red13JoePa wrote:Regarding your alternate title for Essentials: as usual.

Arrival was 4/3/01, so-called "Essentials" was mid-late 10/01.

I'm off on that one then, I was thinking they were very close together. Don't suppose there was any other release around that time that I could be thinking of. But I still think Sony/Kolodner hoped Arrival would tank and Perry'd come back. Could that be the reason they retained Journey at all? I still haven't bought Essentials but may to round out the collection.

NoMoreTails wrote: But I still think Sony/Kolodner hoped Arrival would tank and Perry'd come back. Could that be the reason they retained Journey at all? I still haven't bought Essentials but may to round out the collection.

Now that is a possibility. Not so much that they hoped it would tank, as they just expected it to and thought they could use the contract they still had with Steve to get him back with the band.

Essential is a better CD than GH, but I have to admit, I listen to GH more just out of habit. It's in the car, the other one isn't.

ohsherrie wrote:I doubt that it was sabotage NMT, Sony wouldn't want to make themselve lose money. Wasn't the GH re-released around the same time as TBF? It sold well, and still does, so maybe they were trying that same sort of formula. Also, if they were skeptical about the potential sales of Arrival, they may have seen the issuing of EJ as a possible way of compensating.

I doubt they lost all that much on Arrival, they didn't make anything, but they put very little into it. Possibly willing to wager that much for a chance at Perry returning, though they should have known better after the TBF deal. Also, I've heard some comment that recording expenses come out of the band's take, off the top before they get anything out of the album, though that doesn't seem fair. Yes, GH and the whole catalog except the first three were re-released just prior to TBF, but the in store displays of all the new releases could only raise interest in a band coming back after a ten year hiatus. TBF was going to ship platinum anyway.

ohsherrie wrote:[
Now that is a possibility. Not so much that they hoped it would tank, as they just expected it to and thought they could use the contract they still had with Steve to get him back with the band.

I don't think they expected it to, I think they made sure it did. Their mistakes started with Remember Me. Delaying Arrival's release until a year after it was recorded, letting Arrival leak before its release.
I thought Greatest Hits Live In Double Time (how's that one 'JoePa?)fulfilled Perry's contract.

Maybe the 2001 DVD and EJ were released close together?

NoMoreTails wrote:

ohsherrie wrote:[
Now that is a possibility. Not so much that they hoped it would tank, as they just expected it to and thought they could use the contract they still had with Steve to get him back with the band.

I don't think they expected it to, I think they made sure it did. Their mistakes started with Remember Me. Delaying Arrival's release until a year after it was recorded, letting Arrival leak before its release.
I thought Greatest Hits Live In Double Time (how's that one 'JoePa?)fulfilled Perry's contract.

I just don't think they would intentionally ruin one of their investments. Especially given that the TBF experience gave them had no reason to count on Steve coming back.

If you mean Greatest Hits + 5, I've heard that was done to fufill the contract, but he made a couple comments in his Feb Q&A that sounded like the end of that contract came after that time. Dunno.

Jeremey wrote: I know it was a Perry project but

Jeremy! So astute! You answered your own question while asking it!

I will definitely buy a couple more Generations CDS in protest........

Great ideo Yak.
I'm gonna buy at LEAST 1 more Gens also in resp. to the omition. For a christmas gift.

ohsherrie wrote: Wasn't the GH re-released around the same time as TBF?

It was released after it became painfully obvious to all involved that Perry was not going to tour. What to do in the interim?
Release some old shit and hope like hell that they recoup some of TBF's exorbitant production fees

ohsherrie wrote:Well 'phile, there's no spin to put on it. From Columbia's standpoint, what would be the point of promoting the pre-Perry work at this point?

You're off ur rocker.
As Joe eloquently put it, "It could only help Columbia material to have it advertized in these things, so wtf?"

On the bright side, at least journeymusic.com gets a mention on the back.

Yea, another WTF? It's a confounding mix of omissions and inclusions. A Columbia/Sony product IGNORES 5 Coulmbia products (for which the common denominator is not having SP) but includes the Journey website (where you can find out ALL about Journey as currently comprised). Maybe a compromise from all 3 Journy/SonyCoulmb/Perry. But I'd like to think the band insisted at least Arrival and the 2001 dvd get face time....it's a big rubix cube as usual with "THE VOICE " being involved.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

ohsherrie wrote:Well 'phile, there's no spin to put on it. From Columbia's standpoint, what would be the point of promoting the pre-Perry work at this point?

You're off ur rocker.
As Joe eloquently put it, "It could only help Columbia material to have it advertized in these things, so wtf?"

Use your rocker TNC. We know this project was in at least the planning stages right after the release of GH DVD. Then it was shelved for a while because of some unresolved issues between Steve, members of the band, and Sony. We don't know what those issues were, but you can bet there were some concessions made on the parts of all involved. I would guess that Columbia had more to gain from the release of this DVD and possibly more sales of other Perry era material than from whatever additional sales they may get from the pre and post Perry material. If they had to make a choice regarding this matter in the negotiations they wouldn't hesitate to exclude the Perryless stuff.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

ohsherrie wrote:Well 'phile, there's no spin to put on it. From Columbia's standpoint, what would be the point of promoting the pre-Perry work at this point?

You're off ur rocker.
As Joe eloquently put it, "It could only help Columbia material to have it advertized in these things, so wtf?"

My only question would be....Are the older CD's still in print? Columbia is in the business of moving units, not in the business of promoting older material that no one can buy. I'm not defending them, just a theory.

Red13JoePa wrote::lol: Great ideo Yak.
I'm gonna buy at LEAST 1 more Gens also in resp. to the omition. For a christmas gift.

Christmas IS one of the best times of year to give great music, isn't it Red?