MR

This is a thought I had developed at track speed on the way to San Jose, and once consumed, I really didn't give a shit what happened at work... if we crashed, we crashed..I had an epipheny!:roll:

Anyway, My thought is this... Open Arms is the silver bullet that "killed" Journey with the critics. If not for this song, the band IMO, would not have been labeled, "Ballad Band" or "chick band." Faithfully get's by because it's a little meatier and is frankly a lot better tune. WCN gets a free pass IMO, because of the guitar solo ending it. IMO< Open Arms is never introduced, Journey is already in the Hall of Fame.


It's a Saturday, everyone is here..I thought i would spice up this God forsaken, dreary place and get a little skirmish underway.

Heads, Loons, you too are invited

Let's drop the gloves!

Rock'ndeano wrote:It's a Saturday, everyone is here..I thought i would spice up this God forsaken, dreary place and get a little skirmish underway.

Heads, Loons, you too are invited

Let's drop the gloves!

"Yes, it's kinda chicklike gay"

I am CRYING right now from LMAO!!!

Deano, man....never heard an OA comment like THAT before

sngrchk04 wrote:

Rock'ndeano wrote:It's a Saturday, everyone is here..I thought i would spice up this God forsaken, dreary place and get a little skirmish underway.

Heads, Loons, you too are invited

Let's drop the gloves!

"Yeah, it's kinda chicklike gay"

I am CRYING right now from LMAO!!!

Deano, man....never heard an OA comment like THAT before

Why thank you. I am not trying to be funny, but I gotta tell ya..

I liked it when it came out, but I had to check myself for masculinity..

When I "write" for this board, I feel like Cain a little bit..." Will 13 or TNC like this? Will HOTS get really pissed? Will Dave28 scold me for my vulgarity? Will NIGGY chime in?" --ya know?

Deano

I haven't been here too long
so excuse me but I am starting to wonder
Why every other word seems to contain gay or ass

Who cares
Open Arms was a hit
sure Neal squawked
but soon as the gravy came in
he was there soaking it up.

A hits a hit

God Bless the hits
Whats wrong with a bit of diversity
Anyway every metal and hard rock band have had a love ballad.

Sometimes its nice to mellow out and relax a bit with some candlelight and enjoy dinner and wine.
Then the guys can go back to burping and belching at Burger King

Shadowsong wrote:Deano

I haven't been here too long
so excuse me but I am starting to wonder
Why every other word seems to contain gay or ass

I have to admit, (my face is redder than the Chinese Government), that is true...I am speechless..I can't think of anything to say....You got me..

A hits a hit

That is the problem. There is so much garbage out there(not OA)...

God Bless the hits
Whats wrong with a bit of diversity
Anyway every metal and hard rock band have had a love ballad.

I really shouldn't admit this on the board, but by my own rules, I have to be honest..I like the ballads better than the harder edged rockers...

Sometimes its nice to mellow out and relax a bit with some candlelight and enjoy dinner and wine.

Hmm. Well we do live in the same city..any ideas?

Then the guys can go back to burping and belching at Burger King

A totally stereotyped comment that I resent. I NEVER belch or burp

Open Arms absolutely began Journey down a slippery slope. Hits are a great thing, but they stereotype a band. The record company wants more of the same when you have a hit. The band would have been stronger (but may not have been as commercially successful) without Open Arms.

jrnyman28 wrote:Open Arms absolutely began Journey down a slippery slope. Hits are a great thing, but they stereotype a band. The record company wants more of the same when you have a hit. The band would have been stronger (but may not have been as commercially successful) without Open Arms.

Didn't Herbie say he really never wanted a number one hit? He was always hoping for hits, but in the 5-20 range......

Open Arms is one of those songs that I don't mind, but never actively listen to when I hear Escape or Greatest Hits or whatever. As far as the song ruining the band, well, I don't think so. It still sounded like Journey. If "Stay Awhile" or "Somethin' To Hide" had been monster hits, the same controversy would have ensued. "Somethin' To Hide" actually kind of sounds like "Open Arms" at double speed. No, not really.

Rock'ndeano wrote:

jrnyman28 wrote:Open Arms absolutely began Journey down a slippery slope. Hits are a great thing, but they stereotype a band. The record company wants more of the same when you have a hit. The band would have been stronger (but may not have been as commercially successful) without Open Arms.

Didn't Herbie say he really never wanted a number one hit? He was always hoping for hits, but in the 5-20 range......

Makes sense to me!

Open Arms is a great song. No a fantastic song. But not there best. I don't think it was a gay/chick song. BUT, I do think it forever labeled Journey a a soft/power ballad group. To bad. I think Perry was happy to go that way, look at ROR. Frontiers was great only 2 or 3 slow songs, production was harder than ROR. Journey is a group, but what Perry wanted was a slower watered down group, and what Perry wanted he got. NOW, there is nothing wrong with Perry music, but it wasn't the "group" Journey. Good thing Perry went solo, look at the style, I would not want Journey doing that now. Nothing with 1/4 of a cd being slow, but this Journey, and they need to kick some butt. Good thing Generations did that, or I would have thought they were trying to be Perry clones. As good as Arrival was, it sounded like they wanted to a Perry group. Red 13 stepped away from that, but did not get what they were trying to do, over, because it was an ep.
There were slow songs on Generations, and it didn't bother me, I welcomed it, but the cd did rock. And the Perry era casual listeners were throw off by that, as some radio.-ERIC

It's a masterpiece! I can't imagine Journey without it. It's still on the radio every day on one station or another.

The "what could have been'"is so foolish. "Open Arms" is Journey, through and through and you either take it or leave it. I'll take it. Whose to say that Journey might have faded from the scene without it?

"Whatever Is, is right."........A.Pope

heardonthestreet wrote:It's a masterpiece! I can't imagine Journey without it. It's still on the radio every day on one station or another.

The "what could have been'"is so foolish. "Open Arms" is Journey, through and through and you either take it or leave it. I'll take it. Whose to say that Journey might have faded from the scene without it?

Take out OA, and they still had DSB, WCN, Escape, Stone in Love, and Still They Ride....they would still be kings...

wENT WITH A yes vote because the asnwer's yes. the 2 choices are not mutually exclusive, though, b/c i still feel it is also a masterpiece.

Rock'ndeano wrote:
Didn't Herbie say he really never wanted a number one hit? He was always hoping for hits, but in the 5-20 range......

\\


Never wanted a #1 hit
Goodness
I can only speculate as to why
Maybe Herbie didn;t want Journey to become number One because
they might become too big for his britches
then they could ask for more
or even prehaps fly the coop

Shadowsong wrote:
Never wanted a #1 hit
Goodness
I can only speculate as to why
Maybe Herbie didn;t want Journey to become number One because
they might become too big for his britches
then they could ask for more
or even prehaps fly the coop

I'll let you off here..

Do your homework..

Without Herbie Herbert, you never see the song, Open Arms, and you NEVER see Journey...period.

Not knocking the roll of Herbie Herbert in Journeys emergence and rise to stardom.
He did it the hard way
rose from the trenches
Just questioning as to why he would want to hold them back from number one hits.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding his statement
Perhaps he meant he would be happy with 5 to 20
never envisioning that the band could have #1 hits
Just that the way it was stated \it seemed as if he was
against the band getting too big
I find that curious

Thank you for your kind act of consideration

You get a #1 hit and you get the pressure to follow that up. You start writing what you think will be a #1 song instead of writing from your heart. And you also run the risk of being a one-hit wonder. You were more likely to endure a career with mid-level hits than a #1.

jrnyman28 wrote:You get a #1 hit and you get the pressure to follow that up. You start writing what you think will be a #1 song instead of writing from your heart. And you also run the risk of being a one-hit wonder. You were more likely to endure a career with mid-level hits than a #1.

This is true
I agree
More so blame goes to the labels pressure
After your first #1
you then get oooh you could have done better when you get a mere top 10
Luckily while aware of it all
Journey was just writing good music that was true to themselves
& felt right in there hearts

Open Arms was the most universally recognized song that they'd had up until that point. It was a milestone for rock music in general. It created the "rock ballad". I think it helped make Journey a household name.

Whether or not you think that's good or bad depends on what you wanted from Journey. Most of the people who became Journey's fanbase loved the song. If you're one of those relatively few people who wanted a "fusion" band, or a "hard rock" band, you may not like the song or the results of it. However, I'm not sure we'd have had the Journey that brought us all here if not for it. It, as performed by Steve Perry's incredible voice, set Journey apart from the pack.

ohsherrie wrote:Open Arms was the most universally recognized song that they'd had up until that point. It was a milestone for rock music in general. It created the "rock ballad". I think it helped make Journey a household name.

Whether or not you think that's good or bad depends on what you wanted from Journey. Most of the people who became Journey's fanbase loved the song. If you're one of those relatively few people who wanted a "fusion" band, or a "hard rock" band, you may not like the song or the results of it. However, I'm not sure we'd have had the Journey that brought us all here if not for it. It, as performed by Steve Perry's incredible voice, set Journey apart from the pack.

Agree. Perry does sing his ass off on this..

However, up until that point Sherrie, "Anyway You Want It" was huge..It was a staple in the Caddyshack film..

I am not saying the song isn't any good...I am saying critics didn't like it, but then critics are idiots...

If you do a poll on BT or here for that matter, on songs wanted to be played by the band live..I would guess OA would not make it...

Please, I am NOT trying to argue...

Rock'ndeano wrote:Agree. Perry does sing his ass off on this..

However, up until that point Sherrie, "Anyway You Want It" was huge..It was a staple in the Caddyshack film..

I am not saying the song isn't any good...I am saying critics didn't like it, but then critics are idiots...

If you do a poll on BT or here for that matter, on songs wanted to be played by the band live..I would guess OA would not make it...

Please, I am NOT trying to argue...

I know you're not arguing and neither am I.

I don't doubt that there are many people who would rather hear some other song now. I'm just saying that at the time it set Journey apart from the other bands. AWYW may have been big, I really don't remember, but I remember OA making an impression.

You know I will say, that watching VH1 and seeing these people make fun of the song, and "that Steve perry guy, really sold it..really cheesy." that pissed me off. Look, it is a ballad. There is nothing wrong with showing emotion, in fact I think Perry really sold himself on this..in a good way..Watching him, I thought he really believed in the words..and if a singer believes in his song, or the bands' song, that says something to me.it iis a well written song..

I just happen to think Faithfully is tons better.

To me, the greatest song I have ever heard..Faithfully...Beautiful, yet ...well, beautiful.

Rock'ndeano wrote:You know I will say, that watching VH1 and seeing these people make fun of the song, and "that Steve perry guy, really sold it..really cheesy." that pissed me off. Look, it is a ballad. There is nothing wrong with showing emotion, in fact I think Perry really sold himself on this..in a good way..Watching him, I thought he really believed in the words..and if a singer believes in his song, or the bands' song, that says something to me.it iis a well written song..

I just happen to think Faithfully is tons better.

To me, the greatest song I have ever heard..Faithfully...Beautiful, yet ...well, beautiful.

.................................................
Not imo, Deano. Faithfully is a great song but hardly realistic. Like how many of them were faithfull? The boys in the band are notorious for being unfaithful. I wonder how many of the breakups were because the women were unfaithful?
On the other hand, Open Arms is a song that most can relate to. When Perry sings it live, it has you holding your breath.

heardonthestreet wrote: .................................................
Not imo, Deano. Faithfully is a great song but hardly realistic. Like how many of them were faithfull? The boys in the band are notorious for being unfaithful. I wonder how many of the breakups were because the women were unfaithful?
On the other hand, Open Arms is a song that most can relate to. When Perry sings it live, it has you holding your breath.

Well, see, that's why I picked the song for my wedding..

I was faithful....I believe in that particular value of life.....

Open Arms is the single that killed Journey. Up until Escape they were at least somewhat still a rock band. Rolie left and Jonathan came in and low and behold Perry had an ally in the band as far as moving the band in a 'pop' direction which is what he wanted all along. I hate OA, always have, its the first cheesy, poppy, piece of shit sappy love song in a long line of waste of space love songs Perry and Cain wrote over the years. I wish every day that piece of shit had never been on a Journey album. #1 song or not, it is the song that killed what I had grown and loved about this band.

Well, I think that Journey comes in many flavors and they have something for every occasion and something for everyone. If you have lived enough of life, so far, than you can find one or more of their songs to relate to. I doubt that Journey would still be remembered to this day, had it not been for their love songs.

The thing that I always loved about Journey is their ability to play "all kinds" of music. I fell in love with the song "Open Arms" the first time I heard it on the radio, so playing the ballads just added to their other songs.

Lori

cubby69 wrote:Open Arms is the single that killed Journey. Up until Escape they were at least somewhat still a rock band. Rolie left and Jonathan came in and low and behold Perry had an ally in the band as far as moving the band in a 'pop' direction which is what he wanted all along. I hate OA, always have, its the first cheesy, poppy, piece of shit sappy love song in a long line of waste of space love songs Perry and Cain wrote over the years. I wish every day that piece of shit had never been on a Journey album. #1 song or not, it is the song that killed what I had grown and loved about this band.

I lisen to ESCAPE and I hear a rock band. I recently heard the whole of FRONTIERS all the way through for the first time, and that is also from a hard rocking band... I couldn't believe how hard some of the songs were. GENERATIONS is probably their hardest rocking album.

You can't expect a band to just do the same thing over and over. If all JOURNEY did was rock, we'd have another AC/DC. AC/DC is great, and it is what it is (I love to listen to them every now and then), but JOURNEY I can listen to WHENEVER because they didn't record the same song over and over. I for one like the ballads. I believe that OA is a phenomenal song. It is beautiful, and listening to it makes me forget the piece of shit world we live in. The writing, the vocal, the performances... it is a gem... a classic up there with the best of anything from ANY band... right up there with HEY JUDE, STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN, LAYLA, and anything else you can come up with.

I mean, so what if Perry wanted to move in a pop direction. We all know that NEAL always wants to rock hard. What made JOURNEY a good band was that interplay between what those two wanted. That dichotomy resulted in perfect albums like ESCAPE and FRONTIERS, where you have the hard and the soft coming together. Think about the arguing that must have gone on, and then think about other collaborators like Tyler/Perry, Van Halen / Roth, and Mercury/May, and what was produced. All of those folks probably had the same fights over the music, and look at the genius all of those have produced. Same thing with the genius of JOURNEY.

Rock'ndeano wrote:You know I will say, that watching VH1 and seeing these people make fun of the song, and "that Steve perry guy, really sold it..really cheesy." that pissed me off. Look, it is a ballad. There is nothing wrong with showing emotion, in fact I think Perry really sold himself on this..in a good way..Watching him, I thought he really believed in the words..and if a singer believes in his song, or the bands' song, that says something to me.it iis a well written song..

I just happen to think Faithfully is tons better.

To me, the greatest song I have ever heard..Faithfully...Beautiful, yet ...well, beautiful.

I hear ya, Deano...I hear ya...


Was listening to the song in may car (off the GH CD) a couple o hours ago...

Musically good, but lyrically....man,...simply great....JC wrote a hell f a song there, if you ask me...


Cheers.

Ray

Fernando Ramirez wrote:

cubby69 wrote:Open Arms is the single that killed Journey. Up until Escape they were at least somewhat still a rock band. Rolie left and Jonathan came in and low and behold Perry had an ally in the band as far as moving the band in a 'pop' direction which is what he wanted all along. I hate OA, always have, its the first cheesy, poppy, piece of shit sappy love song in a long line of waste of space love songs Perry and Cain wrote over the years. I wish every day that piece of shit had never been on a Journey album. #1 song or not, it is the song that killed what I had grown and loved about this band.

I lisen to ESCAPE and I hear a rock band. I recently heard the whole of FRONTIERS all the way through for the first time, and that is also from a hard rocking band... I couldn't believe how hard some of the songs were. GENERATIONS is probably their hardest rocking album.

You can't expect a band to just do the same thing over and over. If all JOURNEY did was rock, we'd have another AC/DC. AC/DC is great, and it is what it is (I love to listen to them every now and then), but JOURNEY I can listen to WHENEVER because they didn't record the same song over and over. I for one like the ballads. I believe that OA is a phenomenal song. It is beautiful, and listening to it makes me forget the piece of shit world we live in. The writing, the vocal, the performances... it is a gem... a classic up there with the best of anything from ANY band... right up there with HEY JUDE, STAIRWAY TO HEAVEN, LAYLA, and anything else you can come up with.

I mean, so what if Perry wanted to move in a pop direction. We all know that NEAL always wants to rock hard. What made JOURNEY a good band was that interplay between what those two wanted. That dichotomy resulted in perfect albums like ESCAPE and FRONTIERS, where you have the hard and the soft coming together. Think about the arguing that must have gone on, and then think about other collaborators like Tyler/Perry, Van Halen / Roth, and Mercury/May, and what was produced. All of those folks probably had the same fights over the music, and look at the genius all of those have produced. Same thing with the genius of JOURNEY.

Your opinion. I think Escape and Frontiers along with ROR was Journey's lowest point. You can talk all you want about 'commercial success' until you are blue in the face and I give a could give a shit less. I'd rather have a Journey that was true to itself instead of the '80's sell out crap that we have to enjoy.