MR

Someone posted this assembly line and Andrew locked it so as to not have a problem as to where some of the posts were heading. I would like to comment on the reason that I think bands like Journey continue to tour.

My opinion is that money is NOT the main reason. To me someone like Neal Schon is the EXACT same as a famous world class athlete. Plain and simple it is DAMN hard to quit doing something you love to do. The money comes second, maybe third, maybe fourth, or maybe it doesnt even enter into the equation.

Why is it soooo hard for so many boxers and other professional athletes to give it up?? Oscar De La Hoya just faught and won the other night. Does he need the money?? NO, he needs the high that can only stem from being front and center standing in front of thousands of fans that love you can bring. Does Bret Farve need the money??? Does Frank Thomas???,did Gordie Howe????? Think of all of the athletes that hang around after their prime. Most of them and their families for the next five generations have been set financially for years.

The one thing that I think is even harder for musicians is that their skills may actually get better when they age. Athletes skills decline, and many truly dont know when to quit. They just know that they will miss the friendships, the locker room & the adoring fans.

So my answer to this EXCELLENT question is that Neal and the band feel they still have the skills to get back to the TOP of their profession. And even if they dont get back to the top, on most night they love what they are doing. In front of thousands of fans nightly they are getting a high that no amount of money or no drug can deliver.

Finally, they are smart enough to realize this wont last forever. None of us are getting any younger. When the fat lady sings that one last time there will be no turning back.

yogi wrote:Someone posted this assembly line and Andrew locked it so as to not have a problem as to where some of the posts were heading. I would like to comment on the reason that I think bands like Journey continue to tour.

My opinion is that money is NOT the main reason. To me someone like Neal Schon is the EXACT same as a famous world class athlete. Plain and simple it is DAMN hard to quit doing something you love to do. The money comes second, maybe third, maybe fourth, or maybe it doesnt even enter into the equation.

Why is it soooo hard for so many boxers and other professional athletes to give it up?? Oscar De La Hoya just faught and won the other night. Does he need the money?? NO, he needs the high that can only stem from being front and center standing in front of thousands of fans that love you can bring. Does Bret Farve need the money??? Does Frank Thomas???,did Gordie Howe????? Think of all of the athletes that hang around after their prime. Most of them and their families for the next five generations have been set financially for years.

The one thing that I think is even harder for musicians is that their skills may actually get better when they age. Athletes skills decline, and many truly dont know when to quit. They just know that they will miss the friendships, the locker room & the adoring fans.

So my answer to this EXCELLENT question is that Neal and the band feel they still have the skills to get back to the TOP of their profession. And even if they dont get back to the top, on most night they love what they are doing. In front of thousands of fans nightly they are getting a high that no amount of money or no drug can deliver.

Finally, they are smart enough to realize this wont last forever. None of us are getting any younger. When the fat lady sings that one last time there will be no turning back.

My whole point in posting that last week was this:

1. There at the very least two members who need to tour to earn a living.

2. If you think money is not the main reason you are nuts. True, athletes have a difficult time giving up what they do. However, ask them if they would do it for free.

3. Herbie said in his interview that they are still touring because they need the money. So maybe they all need the money.

Money is the main factor here. I'm not saying they don't LOVE what they do. But do you honestly think they'd tour all summer for free? Heck no. They still have to pay the road crew and have other people thay have to pay that DO need the money.

Why so many people try to explain way the money factor is beyond rational thought.

And where the hell's Monker's reply to that post, it said it all?

And if you honestly think that you can give something up that is a passion and that you are still great at you are also nuts.

When athletes reach the end of the line MANY would do it for free if it meant they would get to hear the cheers a little while longer.

Mario Lemeuix owned the franchise, yet continued to play for the team that he owned as his skills faded and his body ached. Its damn hard to give up the cheers.

At least most athletes do subconsciously know their skills are diminishing. With musicians their skills may improve with age. To me it would be very tough to quit something that I truly love when I know I am on top of my game.

yogi wrote:And if you honestly think that you can give something up that is a passion and that you are still great at you are also nuts.

When athletes reach the end of the line MANY would do it for free if it meant they would get to hear the cheers a little while longer.

At least most athletes do subconsciously know their skills are diminishing. With musicians their skills may improve with age. To me it would be very tough to quit something that I truly love when I know I am on top of my game.

Of course! I'm not arguing that point at all.

What I mean is that money is playing such a huge factor with Journey that they will sacrifice what they really want to do by doing the thing that will bring in the most money.

How many times has Neal said in interviews that he'd rather play instrumental only? A lot. So why does he do something that he would rather not and why would he do something that does not showcase his talent the most? The answer is obvious.

Neal wouldnt get to hear the cheers and would not play in front of thousands nightly if he only played instrumental. Part of what I am saying is that they need the high of the hero worship that is thrown at them when they play peoples favorite songs.

How do you give that up?? I dont think the money enters into it that much.

It is more the power of the worship they receive and the chance that they possibly could rise to the top again.

yogi wrote:Neal wouldnt get to hear the cheers and would not play in front of thousands nightly if he only played instrumental. Part of what I am saying is that they need the high of the hero worship that is thrown at them when they play peoples favorite songs.

How do you give that up?? I dont think the money enters into it that much.

It is more the power of the worship they receive and the chance that they possibly could rise to the top again.

Yes. You are right about all of that I think.

But as you know, everyone needs money. And that's the question. Do they need money? It seems obvious Ross, Steve and Deen do. Not sure about Neal and Johathan.

One thing is for sure. If there was not money involved, this tour would not be happening. Seems simple. Of course I could be missing something here.

yogi wrote: So my answer to this EXCELLENT question is that Neal and the band feel they still have the skills to get back to the TOP of their profession.

That depends on your defintion of "top of their profession". If that means hit singles and albums, then I totaly disagree. IMO, they have written that off as even a possibility. If Journey felt they had ANY hope of having hit songs and albums, they would be on a label and writing songs together more often.

If you mean strictly skills as a band, sure...but I have doubts that any member of the band truly believes the band today equates to the band of 1981.

And even if they dont get back to the top, on most night they love what they are doing. In front of thousands of fans nightly they are getting a high that no amount of money or no drug can deliver.

I would agree that is part of it. Neal has even talked about they high of performing.

Finally, they are smart enough to realize this wont last forever. None of us are getting any younger. When the fat lady sings that one last time there will be no turning back.

If Les Paul can perform, so can Neal and Journey.

Free wrote:1. There at the very least two members who need to tour to earn a living.

and, where exactly are you getting this from? Interviews that are five to ten years old and guesswork?

2. If you think money is not the main reason you are nuts.

What I think is nuts is assuming you know things when you really don't.

3. Herbie said in his interview that they are still touring because they need the money. So maybe they all need the money.

Which interview? Castles Burning, the latest, or something else. CB is OLD, and I don't remember reading it in the latest.

Money is the main factor here.

I don't think you can prove that.

Why so many people try to explain way the money factor is beyond rational thought.

It's beyond rational thought to take something said five years ago and apply it to today. It's like saying Ross declared bankrupcy in 1991 so he must still need money.

Until you have definite proof of ANY of the member's finances, then all you are doing is guessing.

Free wrote:Do they need money? It seems obvious Ross, Steve and Deen do.

I Am with Monker here. Where do you get this from. Last I read, Steve was looking forward to taking some time of to spend with his family. And time specifically with his son before his son goes off to college. Sounds like Steve is comfortable financially.

I just assume they spent their money wisely and are reaping its reward.

I'd rather think they like performing to an audience of adoring fans.

jrnyman28 wrote:

Free wrote:Do they need money? It seems obvious Ross, Steve and Deen do.

I Am with Monker here. Where do you get this from. Last I read, Steve was looking forward to taking some time of to spend with his family. And time specifically with his son before his son goes off to college. Sounds like Steve is comfortable financially.

I get this information from using logic and from Herbie's last interview.

Sure Steve Augeri can take time off and spend with his family for a few months. I think there's no doubt he makes enough money touring to do this.

However, I highly doubt that he makes enough money touring each summer to not have to work any more. Remember he has no royalites coming in unless you count the two unpoplular bands he was with.

It would seem likely that Deen is in the same situation.

On beyond the music, Ross said that he lost his property that had been in his family for years. Herbie said that was because of his former drug habit. So that means that he lost the money he made during the hey day.

Jury is out on Neal and Jonathan. From what I've read they have managed the money they made in the hey day very well. Also they wrote a lot of the songs so they are currently getting royalty money.

Bottom Line (and I realize I could be wrong): I don't think that Journey makes as much money touring as it would seem. They have to pay so many people to make a tour happen. What's left after payroll, touring expenses and management fees is what they get. I'm doubting it's as much as we all think it is.

Free, you are wearing out your welcome here. Put a sock in it for a while ok.

Free wrote:I get this information from using logic and from Herbie's last interview.

While I take what HH says with a grainof salt, okay. I will try to find what you are referring to.

Free wrote:Sure Steve Augeri can take time off and spend with his family for a few months. I think there's no doubt he makes enough money touring to do this.

However, I highly doubt that he makes enough money touring each summer to not have to work any more. Remember he has no royalites coming in unless you count the two unpoplular bands he was with.

I imagine he has made very good money from touring. And remember, the band is indie so they make more per unit sold than in the old days. So while Generations was not a huge seller, it made the band more money per unit than any of their earilier catalog. So did Remember Me and Red 13. He is affording college, and from what I have deduced from Lydia, she does not have to work. I feel relatively confident that Steve has invested wisely to ensure he and his family are taken care of. In fact, I recall an interview with Journey after Arrival was released with a financial news program. It seemed odd, but it shows the guys are acting smart with their money.

Free wrote:It would seem likely that Deen is in the same situation.

See above. "It would seem" only seems to work for you at this time. You believe what you want to believe.

Free wrote:On beyond the music, Ross said that he lost his property that had been in his family for years. Herbie said that was because of his former drug habit. So that means that he lost the money he made during the hey day.

And that was referring to 1989-1990 era. A LONG time ago.

Free wrote:I don't think that Journey makes as much money touring as it would seem. They have to pay so many people to make a tour happen. What's left after payroll, touring expenses and management fees is what they get. I'm doubting it's as much as we all think it is.

And yet it is a fact that bands make their profits on the road.

If Augeri and Castronovo, the likely lowest-paid members of the band are making less than 10k per show, I'd be very surprised. They're doing alright....well enough to buy and sell me.

Red13JoePa wrote:If Augeri and Castronovo, the likely lowest-paid members of the band are making less than 10k per show, I'd be very surprised. They're doing alright....well enough to buy and sell me.

Yeah, they are getting paid well to play music and have fun. I am sure being away from home is tough, but it's part of the job.

I can't believe it's all work. Being away from home isn't for everyone but I don't think it's just relentless with work around the clock. Gosh, who would want that? Well the money ain't bad. There are probably a lot of people who'd want the work.

NealIsGod wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:If Augeri and Castronovo, the likely lowest-paid members of the band are making less than 10k per show, I'd be very surprised. They're doing alright....well enough to buy and sell me.

Yeah, they are getting paid well to play music and have fun. I am sure being away from home is tough, but it's part of the job.

Hey, they wouldn't be DOING it if the cost/benefit analysis didn't add up. So they must have 10's of 1000s in each city that wanna see Journey rip still.
And Neal has repeatedly said the C/B/A hasn't added up for Europe until now. He's never broadcast any pretensions to the contrary. Again, they're what they appear to be and deserve to be: Rich rock stars, not fiscal moorons. Yes, they have to pay Perry, but you take the good w/ the bad.

I guess Espee is just on a medical retirement.

I can't help but think that somewhere deep down Neal, Jon and Ross take pleasure in the fact that they still can perform live while Perry cannot. Neal is younger than Perry and is still doing what Perry "loved to do".

I know alot of you believe that Perry is just enjoying his life but I feel that he would be performing today if he could. I wish I were wrong, but I can't help but think he knows that his days of performing live are behind him.

jrNY wrote:I can't help but think that somewhere deep down Neal, Jon and Ross take pleasure in the fact that they still can perform live while Perry cannot. Neal is younger than Perry and is still doing what Perry "loved to do".

I know alot of you believe that Perry is just enjoying his life but I feel that he would be performing today if he could. I wish I were wrong, but I can't help but think he knows that his days of performing live are behind him.

Maybe...probably even. Doesn't mean he shouldn't try to put out a third studio album like the first 2.

Red13JoePa wrote:

jrNY wrote:I can't help but think that somewhere deep down Neal, Jon and Ross take pleasure in the fact that they still can perform live while Perry cannot. Neal is younger than Perry and is still doing what Perry "loved to do".

I know alot of you believe that Perry is just enjoying his life but I feel that he would be performing today if he could. I wish I were wrong, but I can't help but think he knows that his days of performing live are behind him.

Maybe...probably even. Doesn't mean he shouldn't try to put out a third studio album like the first 2.

Two words: William Hung.

NealIsGod wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:

jrNY wrote:I can't help but think that somewhere deep down Neal, Jon and Ross take pleasure in the fact that they still can perform live while Perry cannot. Neal is younger than Perry and is still doing what Perry "loved to do".

I know alot of you believe that Perry is just enjoying his life but I feel that he would be performing today if he could. I wish I were wrong, but I can't help but think he knows that his days of performing live are behind him.

Maybe...probably even. Doesn't mean he shouldn't try to put out a third studio album like the first 2.

Two words: William Hung.

**Referee whistle**

PERSONAL FOUL!!

How the HELL can you put Steve & William in the same sentence??

tragchk wrote:**Referee whistle**

PERSONAL FOUL!!

How the HELL can you put Steve & William in the same sentence??

I didn't, but you did!

I am just saying that if Hung can record and sell a shitload of CDs, then Perry should have nothing to worry about!

NealIsGod wrote:

tragchk wrote:**Referee whistle**

PERSONAL FOUL!!

How the HELL can you put Steve & William in the same sentence??

I didn't, but you did!

I am just saying that if Hung can record and sell a shitload of CDs, then Perry should have nothing to worry about!

oh....my bad

tragchk wrote:oh....my bad

No problem, Nora.

I am wondering if Neal needs the money to pay child support and support to his other ex-wives.

Anyway, I see Neal, and maybe Jon going the same way as the Rolling Stones. Look at how old they are( The Stones) and they are still touring. I don't think Mick and Co would know what to do if they stopped touring and got a life.

Monker wrote:

Free wrote:1. There at the very least two members who need to tour to earn a living.

and, where exactly are you getting this from? Interviews that are five to ten years old and guesswork?

2. If you think money is not the main reason you are nuts.

What I think is nuts is assuming you know things when you really don't.

3. Herbie said in his interview that they are still touring because they need the money. So maybe they all need the money.

Which interview? Castles Burning, the latest, or something else. CB is OLD, and I don't remember reading it in the latest.

Money is the main factor here.

I don't think you can prove that.

Why so many people try to explain way the money factor is beyond rational thought.

It's beyond rational thought to take something said five years ago and apply it to today. It's like saying Ross declared bankrupcy in 1991 so he must still need money.

Until you have definite proof of ANY of the member's finances, then all you are doing is guessing.

I'm not taking something said five years ago and applying it to today.

What I am doing is taking into account the last herbie interview that was at the very most 2 month ago.

And yes Ross blew his money a long time ago in 91 I think you said. But think about that. That's all the money he made when they were popular. He has not been a part of anything that has a made a lot of money since then. Except the touring.

I'm not pretending to know how much they make each concert. Maybe they make big time money touring. But if you crunch the numbers I can't see how it can be one million dollars for each member every tour or even $500,000.

And monker, I never said I KNEW this. It's what I think. How many times have I said I could be wrong? A lot.

jrnyman28 wrote:

Free wrote:Do they need money? It seems obvious Ross, Steve and Deen do.

I Am with Monker here. Where do you get this from. Last I read, Steve was looking forward to taking some time of to spend with his family. And time specifically with his son before his son goes off to college. Sounds like Steve is comfortable financially.

And I hope he is. I hope he's a gazillionaire!!! But I don't see how that is possible by touring only.

It's fine to have a point; but you purposefully seem to try to have the point which is always contrary to all other opinions. That's cool. But you seem to be that person in the crowd nobody wants to pick for the team.

You don't have to give a fu** but gracious; flip it and see what happens.