MR

"PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!!!"

Yup.

That's where the "JourneyHouse that MelRock Built" has officially landed:

Welcome to Oz.

Great.

What a WONDERFUL TIME to be a Lead-Singer in a band.



I'm going beyond if The JourneyCamp will be found to be lipping or not....

I'm talking about Lead Singers IN GENERAL - & how we will now be perceived every time we take the stage. I'm pretty sure that Jeremey will agree with me on this.

I played a show this past Friday, and in the back of my mind, I was wondering if any of the people in the audience were aware of this whole scandal....since I didn't really know, I felt like I had to improv more than usual on every song just to say "See? Yes, I AM singing live!"

Not that I should care, but with the job that I and others have, YES, I DO...VERY MUCH.

Because this has to do with 2 words:

ARTISTIC INTEGRITY

And the most Ironic thing is, it was JOURNEY ....no excuse me - Steve Perry - that made me want to do this in the FIRST place!!

....and now, Journey is the group that could put a big ":?:" in people's minds EVERY TIME they go out to see a live show!

Thanx a boatload.

Listening to Manchester right now. No way it's lipped. Augie sounds rough throughout.

I can understand why you want to lay blame to Journey for a singers artistic integrity, but my mind goes back to Ashlee Simpson, Madonna, & Britney Spears WAY before Journey was alleged to be doing anything.

And even so, Millie Vanillie prior to those above.

I'd think it be hard for anyone that stands stage front to prove how good they are. There will always be critics regardless how well you sing.

Liz22562 wrote:I can understand why you want to lay blame to Journey for a singers artistic integrity, but my mind goes back to Ashlee Simpson, Madonna, & Britney Spears WAY before Journey was alleged to be doing anything.

And even so, Millie Vanillie prior to those above.

I'd think it be hard for anyone that stands stage front to prove how good they are. There will always be critics regardless how well you sing.

What - you mean the "Rockin' Barbie"s?

They're nothing more than "Studio Confection".

What I was talking about is the fact that Journey has been together and done LIVE SHOWS since the late 70s......and now even THEY are doing it, allegedly...

That's what I meant by "artistic integrity".

When you saw Journey in the Perry years did you know that all the backing vocals were tapes of Perry doing the harmony? Did it bother you then? Fill tapes have always been used during live performance.. it's SOP in the industry. Sorry to burst any bubbles but it's a fact, Jack.

ace wrote:When you saw Journey in the Perry years did you know that all the backing vocals were tapes of Perry doing the harmony? Did it bother you then? Fill tapes have always been used during live performance.. it's SOP in the industry. Sorry to burst any bubbles but it's a fact, Jack.

Backing vocals are one thing....when you are FRONT AND CENTER DOING LEAD WITH TAPES, that's another.

tragchk wrote:

ace wrote:When you saw Journey in the Perry years did you know that all the backing vocals were tapes of Perry doing the harmony? Did it bother you then? Fill tapes have always been used during live performance.. it's SOP in the industry. Sorry to burst any bubbles but it's a fact, Jack.

Backing vocals are one thing....when you are FRONT AND CENTER DOING LEAD WITH TAPES, that's another.

Look Nora, I respect you as an artist we'll leave it at that.

[quote="tragchk]
Backing vocals are one thing....when you are FRONT AND CENTER DOING LEAD WITH TAPES, that's another.[/quote]

Exactly!

ace wrote:

tragchk wrote:

ace wrote:When you saw Journey in the Perry years did you know that all the backing vocals were tapes of Perry doing the harmony? Did it bother you then? Fill tapes have always been used during live performance.. it's SOP in the industry. Sorry to burst any bubbles but it's a fact, Jack.

Backing vocals are one thing....when you are FRONT AND CENTER DOING LEAD WITH TAPES, that's another.

Look Nora, I respect you as an artist we'll leave it at that.

Sorry....that should read "....ALLEGEDLY doing lead with tapes".

Ace, I'm not mad at YOU....I'm just so freaking heated about this whole thing!!

It's just SO FRUSTRATING to put time, money, heart, soul, sweat, tears, practice, recitals, concerts, Classical Vocal Training, and 2 DECADES of my life into this.....and have the title and job of "Lead Singer" dragged through the mud!!

So you think this will impact how people view you as a performer?

oooooookay...

NealIsGod wrote:So you think this will impact how people view you as a performer?

oooooookay...

I said, "LEAD SINGERS IN GENERAL"!!!

Nora Tragianese wrote:I'm going beyond if The JourneyCamp will be found to be lipping or not....

I'm talking about Lead Singers IN GENERAL - & how they will now be perceived every time they take the stage.

I think the profession will survive, Nora.

NealIsGod wrote:I think the profession will survive, Nora.

Whatever.

I have to say that I kind of agree, that if this hits mainstream news that it will open up a whole big can of worms regarding this type of practice.

NealIsGod wrote:Listening to Manchester right now. No way it's lipped. Augie sounds rough throughout.

The chorus is live.

tragchk wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:I think the profession will survive, Nora.

Whatever.

FYI - NIG, I apologize for the above. I'm sorry.

This hits very close to home for me.

tragchk wrote:FYI - NIG, I apologize for the above. I'm sorry.

This hits very close to home for me.

No worries, Nora. Sorry if I came off like an ass.

NealIsGod wrote:

tragchk wrote:FYI - NIG, I apologize for the above. I'm sorry.

This hits very close to home for me.

No worries, Nora. Sorry if I came off like an ass.

Apology accepted!

And no, you didn't......like I said...close to home for me....sigh...

blueonblack wrote:I have to say that I kind of agree, that if this hits mainstream news that it will open up a whole big can of worms regarding this type of practice.

There's no need to be dramatic. The Milli Vanilli incident, which was much worse than this, didn't kill music. This won't have that much of an impact either.

Elton John was mad at Madonna for using tapes a year or so ago and that didn't make much noise either. And excuse me for pointing it out but Madonna is a bigger artist than Journey.

swepett wrote:

blueonblack wrote:I have to say that I kind of agree, that if this hits mainstream news that it will open up a whole big can of worms regarding this type of practice.

There's no need to be dramatic. The Milli Vanilli incident, which was much worse than this, didn't kill music. This won't have that much of an impact either.

Elton John was mad at Madonna for using tapes a year or so ago and that didn't make much noise either. And excuse me for pointing it out but Madonna is a bigger artist than Journey.

Yep Madonna charges way more money for her shows too..Has Elton John tuned down his songlist to help with the voice/age thing?

swepett wrote:

blueonblack wrote:I have to say that I kind of agree, that if this hits mainstream news that it will open up a whole big can of worms regarding this type of practice.

There's no need to be dramatic. The Milli Vanilli incident, which was much worse than this, didn't kill music. This won't have that much of an impact either.

Elton John was mad at Madonna for using tapes a year or so ago and that didn't make much noise either. And excuse me for pointing it out but Madonna is a bigger artist than Journey.

Nora said it very well, it is because Perry/Journey made her want to sing. So it is very personal to her. But Nora, "this" will affect the fans the most. But it will affect the business little. The waves are being felt because we are in Journey's pool.

I don't think Elton's changed keys to his songs...maybe a couple if it's convenient (it's certainly easier to do with piano based music rather than guitar-based), but largely if it's out of his range now he just alters the melody, much like Freddie Mercury used to do. Listen to a live Queen recording, Mercury often strays from the melody on the studio version simply because it wouldn't be possible to sing it exactly like the LP every night. Elton has done the same thing for many years, and also relies on a couple of backup singers to help out (although they don't sing any lead vocals, to my knowledge...I don't know, I can't afford Elton's ticket prices but I have some live recordings)

I totally get where you are coming from, Nora. And to a certain degree, I agree with you. I do believe people will be much more hesitant to fork over money for big ticket prices if they think there is a possibility the music or vocals are in some way not truly "live."
I don't think these allegations, whether they turn out to be true or not, will bring down the music industry or anything like that.
What it has done is created a big question mark in the minds of fans, especially those of Journey. True or not, the question has been raised. The damage has been done. Someone said in another thread that no matter what Journey does at this point, they can't win. I agree. There will always be that question. It's too bad this came out when it did. I mean, time is not on their side at this point. A few more years, and the Journey would have ended quietly on its own.

swepett wrote:

blueonblack wrote:I have to say that I kind of agree, that if this hits mainstream news that it will open up a whole big can of worms regarding this type of practice.

There's no need to be dramatic. The Milli Vanilli incident, which was much worse than this, didn't kill music. This won't have that much of an impact either.

Elton John was mad at Madonna for using tapes a year or so ago and that didn't make much noise either. And excuse me for pointing it out but Madonna is a bigger artist than Journey.

Right!

I'm as big of a Journey fan as their is, but obviously Journey are not the kings of the charts that they once were.

Even if any of these allegations are true it will fade away really quick!

There are far bigger things to worry about in the world right now than whether or not a singer is lip-syncing!

Even if any of these allegations are true it will fade away really quick!

"If"...then it also depends upon how "bad" it is. It for sure won't fade away on forums such as this...or websites such as Melodic Rock...etc...

Magwheels wrote:

Even if any of these allegations are true it will fade away really quick!

"If"...then it also depends upon how "bad" it is. It for sure won't fade away on forums such as this...or websites such as Melodic Rock...etc...

But as someone said on this site already, we are but a few people compared to the millions of people who are Journey fans and melodic Rock fans in general.

True..but what happens if it's brought up on the radio every-time a concert is coming into town? On tv? etc..It may not hurt them..if they can convince everybody it's not going to happen anymore..but it still won't fade away.