MR

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:14 pm**

Ok...here goes...

I think this whole thing has gone way too far...ON BOTH SIDES!

Dean was WAY WAY WAY wrong in how he talked to everyone who disagreed with him.

But at the same time those of you who defended the band didn't act any better.

People all the time have honest differences of opinion, I bet everyone here disagrees with someone at least once a day...but I bet NONE of you would come out and act this way if it was a live person in front of you. You would be embarassed. Sometimes we forget that the with the anonymity the internet brings that living breathing people are reading our words. And we all think things in anger, that in real life we would never say, but on the net we can do it with no repercussions. I have done it, a couple of times...and regretted it. I was wrong, and those who I did it to if I never appologized I am now: I am sorry.

I believe Dean when he says he has no malice toward the band, that he has their best interest at heart. I believe that Dean really believes that Journey uses tape at concerts, but I also believe he thinks it is Journey's best interest to do things the "right way" as he sees it. I also think his approach to putting out his evidence was wrong, not just wrong but so wrong that it made ANYTHING he said irrelevant, and he knows that.

At this point it doesn't matter who is right and who is wrong. No one is going to win this one. No matter how it turns out people have been hurt and will get hurt.

For all of the people who trashed the band, if you believe they lip synched you have every right to be angry. But I would be ashamed at my behavior if I were you.

For everyone who trashed Dean because of what he believes: Shame on you too. Asking a person to clarify a position, and then disagreeing with them is fine, the way you did it was just as wrong as Dean's approach, worse for some of you, because I know you and I KNOW you know better.

The way I figure this thing is going to break down generally in thirds:
One third will believe and be a little upset.
One third won't believe because they back Journey 100%
One third just don't care.
And in the end MOST of the upset ones will be at the show in 2 weeks jumping up and down to "Don't Stop Believin'" while screaming at the top of the lungs and I will be right there with all 100% of you (+ or - 5% based on my oh so scientific technical analysis!

)

So in the end the verdict from me is this: In the end is DOESN'T MATTER. People are going to believe what they want to believe. No amount on evidence, either way, no amount of name calling, trashing talking, macho bull is going to make a difference.

Now you can all trash me if you like, because the other side of the internet's anonymity is that well it makes it easy to ignore.

And that's all I have to say about that...
Stuart

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:23 pm**

i think everyone has a right to their opinon.

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:24 pm**

Marabelle wrote:i think everyone has a right to their opinon.

Which is what I said...but people can go way too far in defending that opinion.

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:30 pm**

RossValoryRocks wrote:Ok...here goes...

I believe Dean when he says he has no malice toward the band, that he has their best interest at heart.
Stuart

You're kidding, right? Did you read his thread threatening Journey if they don't respond?

"Either you respond by tomorrow, or I will completely blow you out of the fucking water, and don't think I won't do it either. I have never been so disgusted by classless assholes . . . "

Dean doesn't even has his own best interests at heart now.

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:33 pm**

LAWoman wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:Ok...here goes...

I believe Dean when he says he has no malice toward the band, that he has their best interest at heart.
Stuart

You're kidding, right? Did you read his thread threatening Journey if they don't respond?

"Either you respond by tomorrow, or I will completely blow you out of the fucking water, and don't think I won't do it either. I have never been so disgusted by classless assholes . . . "

Dean doesn't even has his own best interests at heart now.

No I am not kidding...people say and do things in anger, and that is even more prevalent on the internet.

I do agree when Dean makes statements like that he has gone off the edge. I think he knows it too.

That doesn't mean that in his heart he really feels that way. It just a reaction in anger, and I bet everyone, even you Barb, have done just that.

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:40 pm**

Perfectly said.
'Nuff said.lol
Laters,

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:43 pm**

RossValoryRocks wrote:
LAWoman wrote:
RossValoryRocks wrote:Ok...here goes...

I believe Dean when he says he has no malice toward the band, that he has their best interest at heart.
Stuart

You're kidding, right? Did you read his thread threatening Journey if they don't respond?

"Either you respond by tomorrow, or I will completely blow you out of the fucking water, and don't think I won't do it either. I have never been so disgusted by classless assholes . . . "

Dean doesn't even has his own best interests at heart now.

No I am not kidding...people say and do things in anger, and that is even more prevalent on the internet.

I do agree when Dean makes statements like that he has gone off the edge. I think he knows it too.

That doesn't mean that in his heart he really feels that way. It just a reaction in anger, and I bet everyone, even you Barb, have done just that.

No, sorry, I have not cursed out people and threatened them repeatedly over a period of several weeks. I don't know if you have been following this whole saga, but it's not like it's one incident. And no, I don't think Dean realizes it or he wouldn't keep doing the same thing. He is now on some kind of an odd crusade and now he is threatening people if they don't do what he wants. He's off the deep end.

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:52 pm**

LAWoman

Hey LA Women How ya doin.

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:55 pm**

froy wrote:
LAWoman

Hey LA Women How ya doin.

See what a big event this is? Both Froy & Monker have taken an interest and they have been bored by the Journey debates in the last few years.

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 1:55 pm**

BTW...just to avoid confusion or people thinking I'm taking a jab at them...My post was in reguards to RVR's initial post.

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:36 pm**

Well, I have "known" Dean for over a year and a half, and despite his bluster, know that he is pretty harmless. Hell, I would go so far to say he was the main reason I was so active in this place. His relentless pursuit of tapegate has left me scratching my head and wishing for the old Deano back. Some people who are against him (posters, not the band itself) are fighting very dirty, and he is lashing back at them. Now he won't let it go because he sees it as a personal battle that he does not want to lose.

Posted: **Tue Jun 20, 2006 11:47 pm**

NIG, true. It's not the band fighting back dirtilly.

Stuart. What side of the fence do you reside on tapegate?

Posted: **Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:51 am**

Red13JoePa wrote:Stuart. What side of the fence do you reside on tapegate?

Does it matter at this point? Everyone has formed opinions, some based on facts, some based on fantasy, some really just don't care.

At this point the whole thing should just end.

Oh I know it won't...people will witch hunt Journey and witch hunt Dean.

No one wins this one...no one.

And THAT is which side of the fence I am ultimately on: The side of it stopping.

Posted: **Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:53 am**

I agree with most of what RVR(Stuart, if I may)says. Things on these Journey related boards do tend to go a little over the top and take on exaggerated importance. Most of us have been guilty to some degree at one time or another.

I don't personally think this, even though I think it's true, is going to make any big waves in the music world or in the band's. The core support for today's band consists of a few hundred, maybe a thousand but I doubt it, Internet followers most of which reside at BT (except for the few renegades :wink:

that hang out here). The majority of the people who attend their concerts are just people who remember the hits and want to enjoy them in a concert/party atmosphere. They don't really care who's singing them or even if the really are. The band is just too far under the radar of the music industry these days for this to be that relevant. The core supporters are going to continue to support them because they've come to think of them as if they were personal friends. The casual concert goers will keep going for the reasons that they have been. The band knows this. They know that if they just ignore it things will just continue as they have been. I think they're more realistic about themselves that most of their fans are.

There is one category that I think RVR left out of this though:

RossValoryRocks wrote:The way I figure this thing is going to break down generally in thirds:
One third will believe and be a little upset.
One third won't believe because they back Journey 100%
One third just don't care.

There is a fourth one. It's people like me who hate seeing Journey's legacy even further degraded and are disgusted by it. I'm not saying Dean shouldn't have brought this out, I'm glad he did. I don't see why people are trying to kill the messenger, or why some are trying to deflect the charges by throwing aspersions on Perry and/or his fans. He was in no way involved in this and neither were we.

Oh well, life will go on, and so will the shows. Those who enjoy them will continue to enjoy them. No big change. That is, unless Perry were to decide to make some waves, but I don't think he will do so. At least not publicly. Why would he want this to go to the mainstream media? Journey is his legacy too, but I don't think it has anything to do with money as some have alleged. He tried to keep them from going on, so he obviously didn't need whatever revenue he may or may not be getting from their existence. The catalogue wouldn't be effected by this at all even if the allegations did go mainstream. It's not that era of the band that's been charged and it's the fans of that era who are buying the majority of the rereleases. The band that exists today has relatively little to do with those sales.

Posted: **Wed Jun 21, 2006 12:56 am**

RVR says... No I am not kidding...people say and do things in anger, and that is even more prevalent on the internet

So has DEANO been angry for 2-3 weeks now? Cause he has been an asshole for some time now.

Posted: **Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:00 am**

I
I don't see why people are trying to kill the messenger, or why some are trying to deflect the charges by throwing aspersions on Perry and/or his fans. He was in no way involved in this and neither were we.

Maybe because the charges have been neither confirmed, denied or even proven. Someone took a spark and made a fire. Everyone here is flaming the wildfire. Until the charges are addressed...one way or another, we are just making this mole hill into a mountain and causing more distress, hurt feelings and splits camps with speculation and rumors.

Posted: **Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:02 am**

tmoney wrote:So has DEANO been angry for 2-3 weeks now? Cause he has been an asshole for some time now.

I really don't know. I just found out about all this last week. If Dean has been mad for longer than that then I suppose people will have seen it.

Regardless, it isn't always about anger, it usually just has to do with the fact that people post things on the internet that they would NEVER say in front of another living human being, because of the relative anonymity.

Now me, I am not so anonymous, lots of people have met me and know me and so because of that I am especially cognizant of what I post and more important HOW I post things to people.

Posted: **Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:06 am**

Angiekay wrote:Maybe because the charges have been neither confirmed, denied or even proven. Someone took a spark and made a fire. Everyone here is flaming the wildfire. Until the charges are addressed...one way or another, we are just making this mole hill into a mountain and causing more distress, hurt feelings and splits camps with speculation and rumors.

Hi Angie. Are you saying you saying you think things would calm down if the band were to make a statement? I'm not sure that would happen, but if it would I wish they would step up.

Posted: **Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:10 am**

OhSherri, I think your sentiments are true; and that the many followers of the band do not care whose necessarily singing the song or how the song is being sung but welcome the fact that they are still able to be in that atomsphere of music. It nostaligic; it's warm and fuzzy. It makes them smile. And perhaps these claims of disclosure of lip synching or enhancing are as threatening to them as someone claiming that there is no Santa. I think Journey represents to many people many things and with all that they hold to be true; the fans will not be disillusioned with the possibility that there singer is not able to do justice to these songs and might be helped in a few areas. But is it right for the so called renegades or for Deano to shine the light down on Journey and claim "foul". If it is true than I see no problem being honest and letting the fans know what you think is true. But if it is false than claim it and let the story be told. Stoic silence and stone faces will only bring more curiousity and more interest.
Is Deano going over the top with this; well, most of all are familiar with Deano and his antics; and we are not surprised. So it's alright that some of us are sitting this one out; it's alright with those who want to hold the banner high for Journey and testify to there sincerity and integrity no matter what; it's alright to just sit there in disbelief and wonder; could this possibily be true. I don't know whose right or wrong; I just feel that Neal and Co. might unfortunately be chosing to be silent and let the chips fall as they may. I figure he thinks there are only one or two years left at the most to play music. But what a slap in the face of their legacy of music. He shouldn't think this one will just disappear. This one has already tarnished the legacy of the band Journey without him having said one word. I think this time he'd want to set the record straight.

Posted: **Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:12 am**

ohsherrie wrote:
Angiekay wrote:Maybe because the charges have been neither confirmed, denied or even proven. Someone took a spark and made a fire. Everyone here is flaming the wildfire. Until the charges are addressed...one way or another, we are just making this mole hill into a mountain and causing more distress, hurt feelings and splits camps with speculation and rumors[/b].

Hi Angie. Are you saying you saying you think things would calm down if the band were to make a statement? I'm not sure that would happen, but if it would I wish they would step up.

Like I said the other day, at this point it almost doesn't matter what the band says, if they deny it, there will be people that won't believe them and say they are covering up. There will be those that will blindly believe everything they say. If they admit it...well...anarchy!, don't you think? HOWEVER, it would be better then being silent and letting all this hearsay and BS go onandonandonandon.

Posted: **Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:18 am**

Angiekay wrote:
ohsherrie wrote:
Angiekay wrote:Maybe because the charges have been neither confirmed, denied or even proven. Someone took a spark and made a fire. Everyone here is flaming the wildfire. Until the charges are addressed...one way or another, we are just making this mole hill into a mountain and causing more distress, hurt feelings and splits camps with speculation and rumors[/b].

Hi Angie. Are you saying you saying you think things would calm down if the band were to make a statement? I'm not sure that would happen, but if it would I wish they would step up.

Like I said the other day, at this point it almost doesn't matter what the band says, if they deny it, there will be people that won't believe them and say they are covering up. There will be those that will blindly believe everything they say. If they admit it...well...anarchy!, don't you think? HOWEVER, it would be better then being silent and letting all this hearsay and BS go onandonandonandon.

I see what you mean, and I agree. If they deny it they need to offer some proof though. If not it's not really going to change anything. If they admit it at least everyone will have something to take a stand on. Either it's OK with you or it's not, but at least we'll know.

MR

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