MR

As someone who has seen them at least once, usually twice every year since '99, I have never thought that backing tapes were used. What may confuse some people is that their drummer, Dean Castronovo actually sounds more like Steve Perry than Steve Augeri does and he does quite a bit of singing, both background vocals and lead vocals on some songs. When he does backing vocals in support of Augeri, it gives a much fuller sound and possibly an impression that tapes are used. He just started singing for them within the last few years. The fact that Dean is hidden behind a drum kit and he wears a headset to sing may be what is confusing people.

deo89 wrote:As someone who has seen them at least once, usually twice every year since '99, I have never thought that backing tapes were used. What may confuse some people is that their drummer, Dean Castronovo actually sounds more like Steve Perry than Steve Augeri does and he does quite a bit of singing, both background vocals and lead vocals on some songs. When he does backing vocals in support of Augeri, it gives a much fuller sound and possibly an impression that tapes are used. He just started singing for them within the last few years. The fact that Dean is hidden behind a drum kit and he wears a headset to sing may be what is confusing people.

No I am aware that Dean is singing
It may not be tapes it may be computer doubling .
The harmonies are just too strong
Could be wrong who knows

No, that's not what is confusing. Post's like Svante Pettersson's, who is on the technical end of it getting the sound directly from Journey is what is confusing. It has nothing to do with Deen singing.

So now it's a duet situation as lead vocals for Journey. A good vocalist assisting a faltering vocalist. WHATEVER!

Anybody hear anymore about the two conflicting tapes the fellow from Sweden has?

Is he still posting here?

Elson's their live sound guy in addition to being an awesome in-studio producer.
He's been their live sound guy for decades unless I'm mistaken. Which would mean the Live On Radio and Memories Remain boots of radio shows from '86 and '83 respectively were also Elson's mixes. Are the validity of these shows also on the table for questioning?
What about the radio show boots Evolution Stage, '79 and the Capitol Theater in Passaic, NJ 1978?

No, Perry was always live. The technology for such things wasn't there in the late 70's/early 80's. Bands like Depeche Mode used tapes for live performances, but they were for drums or loops and such. (U2 continues to use tapes for minor drum loops and the keyboards that Edge played on the studio albums on songs like "Where the Streets Have No Name" or "Bad")

I don't know about using tapes for backing vocals on previous Journey tours...I have Greatest Hits Live and the Vegas DVD but I always just kind of assumed they'd fixed some stuff up in the studio, like most live albums. I actually have a bootleg DVD from Japan in '81, but I haven't had time to watch it yet. Now I'm kind of curious if they had help back then.

I'm not accusing Perry of lipping, either. What I'm saying is why the sudden grassy knoll theories about Kevin Elson who also did the live sound on those perry shows back in the day that were broadcast?

Cause no one ever doubted Perry's singing. I was 5 the last time Perry sang live with Journey, but none of the recordings I've heard with him would ever lead anyone to believe he was faking.

I downloaded the Manchester' 06 show last night and it's waiting for me on my computer when I get home from work today, so I'm going to give it a listen myself...I ripped the Vegas DVD years ago onto my mp3 player so I know Augeri's vocal stuff on it really, really well. We'll see.

froy wrote:

deo89 wrote:As someone who has seen them at least once, usually twice every year since '99, I have never thought that backing tapes were used. What may confuse some people is that their drummer, Dean Castronovo actually sounds more like Steve Perry than Steve Augeri does and he does quite a bit of singing, both background vocals and lead vocals on some songs. When he does backing vocals in support of Augeri, it gives a much fuller sound and possibly an impression that tapes are used. He just started singing for them within the last few years. The fact that Dean is hidden behind a drum kit and he wears a headset to sing may be what is confusing people.

No I am aware that Dean is singing
It may not be tapes it may be computer doubling .
The harmonies are just too strong
Could be wrong who knows

Well a lot of people have made the observation that Journey's backing vocals took a major hit when Gregg Rollie left the band. This is not to sound disparaging as Jonathan Cain is a great songwriter, but has a voice that is described as "average" at best (See "Every Generation" and any of his solo work). Neal is a great guitar player, but his voice is also very average. Look at every Perry post Departure album - all of the backing vocals on the album are done by Perry overdubbed on himself (except maybe a little Randy Jackson on some of the ROR songs). Escape, Frontiers, Raised On Radio, and Trial By Fire are all Perry overdubbed on himself. if Jonathan and Neal are even singing background vocals, their volume is turned waaaaaay down so that you can hardly hear them. The one exception to this is Chain Reaction off Frontiers when Neal sings a duet with Perry.

This is still probably the case, but with Deen you have someone who has a good voice so the concert backing vocals should be stronger. I didn't see Journey with Perry live, so how did they handle backing vocals then - did they just leave it to Jonathan and Neal to butcher?I wonder if they augmented them via computer back in the 80s. You know Styx did that for some of the songs during their Kilroy Was Here tour. But I think it was more a function of them needing to because they were acting out the songs and the band wasn't on stage - just Dennis DeYoung and/or Tommy Shaw. But maybe they should have since JY is right there with Neal and Jonathan as a weak vocalist.

This may surprise you, Annie, but plenty of people really like Neal's voice. It's got a really cool quality to it.

Saw Perry with Journey back in the early 80's - the only person I didn't see sing was Steve Smith and he was too busy working the drums.

Sounded awesome to me and I was 5th row center, but that's mho.

Liz22562 wrote:Saw Perry with Journey back in the early 80's - the only person I didn't see sing was Steve Smith and he was too busy working the drums.

Sounded awesome to me and I was 5th row center, but that's mho.

Cool. ESC4P3 tour or Frontiers? I didn't get to see them until ROR (ugh). What a disappontment.

heardonthestreet wrote:Anybody hear anymore about the two conflicting tapes the fellow from Sweden has?

From the google groups site:

Bill wrote:
> When you heard that terrible voice in the truck WHY didn't ya throw a tape
> in and record it?

Recordings of both mixes are with the producer and engineers of this
show. I wasn't working with this particular show, I was only visiting
in the truck. No one would have let me walk out of the truck with a
personal tape of this. This is to avoid bootlegging of course.

/Svante

The Escape tour! The one thing that stood out to me at the time was Steve Smith's drum kit. My boyfriend, at the time, was a percussionist and he pointed out how difficult it was to see Steve because of the amount of drums he had around him. Amazing to say the least!

I have tried not to have an opinion on this issue but I just can't help it. I have seen Journey live with Augeri probably over 50 some times. I have loved Journey like I have loved no other band and of course do not want to believe this is true. Augeri is a wonderful person and kind-hearted and I can not imagine that he would want to lip any song or mislead any fans. BUT, could it happen? REALLY, could it? Normally, just like the person named "Pit" that posts here, I would defend them to the death; however, I have seen and heard Augeri struggle with his voice and with some notes. I think it is common knowledge how hard he tries to take care of his voice, but it sometimes does just not come through for him. In summary, I guess I COULD accept the idea of some enhancements....but to lip almost entire songs? I am just not sure I can believe it.

Just one person's .02 cents!

As for Styx, Mr. Roboto was never done live in concert. How could they with those masks on? So that one was totally recorded - GASP!! Dennis sang it for the first time on his solo tours.

The list of bands could go on and on with lip synched concerts for one reason or another.

But SuiteMadameBlue..why doesn't the band just address the issue then. It's like they're trying to find the right words to not make it sound so bad or something..or see my conspiracy theory in another thread

Magwheels wrote:But SuiteMadameBlue..why doesn't the band just address the issue then. It's like they're trying to find the right words to not make it sound so bad or something..or see my conspiracy theory in another thread

Which band, Journey, why don't they address this issue? Or when Styx did it back then?

Styx addressed it years later, it didn't seem like a big deal. I wouldn't have been heartbroken over it. But that's just me.

As for Journey, you would think with all this hoopla that if it wasn't true there would've been a post addressing this right away on their websites like MOST bands do when they hear the smallest rumor. Look what Def Leppard did when they got ticked off, they put up something right away. MOST bands when word gets out bad about them, they usually put up a little newsflash on their front page.

Magwheels, which thread should I look at? Thanks........

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:As for Styx, Mr. Roboto was never done live in concert. How could they with those masks on? So that one was totally recorded - GASP!! Dennis sang it for the first time on his solo tours.

The list of bands could go on and on with lip synched concerts for one reason or another.

Actually, Dennis sang it live to a prerecorded backing track. That was all during the opening part of the show which was acting. The band was not all on stage. Once the acting part was over with JY playing that solo which led into "Rockin' the Paradise", the band played stuff out except for "Heavy Metal Poisoning" which was sung live, but not played by the band (a la Roboto - it was in a more "acting" part of the show).

Very different than Journey's current situation of what they are being accused of.

EDIT: It's also well known DDY has had some keyboard parts (such as the string part in "The Best of Times") played offstage by his keyboard tech on certain tours while DDY was playing piano and both JY and TS were playing guitar.

SuiteMadameBlue..I was referring to Journey

It was Deano's thread I had responded to that contained my conspiracy theory. I was just saying(jokingly..kinda) that this is all a PR stunt to get them more publicity. They'll let it hang out there for a few days or so..then come out and prove that it's all untrue. Stupid..I know.

I always thought the "illegal" release of Arrival online was a PR stunt as well.

Magwheels wrote:SuiteMadameBlue..I was referring to Journey

It was Deano's thread I had responded to that contained my conspiracy theory. I was just saying(jokingly..kinda) that this is all a PR stunt to get them more publicity. They'll let it hang out there for a few days or so..then come out and prove that it's all untrue. Stupid..I know.

I always thought the "illegal" release of Arrival online was a PR stunt as well.

Wow, that is amazing and could be true as a PR stunt!!!! Just look at all the publicity!

I don't think it's stupid, I didn't think of that. Hmmmmm.

Again, this is a lot better than my soap opera "Days of Our Lives" that I have given up on.

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Actually, Dennis sang it live to a prerecorded backing track. That was all during the opening part of the show which was acting. The band was not all on stage. Once the acting part was over with JY playing that solo which led into "Rockin' the Paradise", the band played stuff out except for "Heavy Metal Poisoning" which was sung live, but not played by the band (a la Roboto - it was in a more "acting" part of the show).

Haven't We been here Before was sung to a tape as well
Im sure you know that just forgot.

froy wrote:Haven't We been here Before was sung to a tape as well
Im sure you know that just forgot.

Well, they gave it the illusion (no pun intended) of part of it being played live when they showed JY, CP, and JP playing. I would say that it is a partial live/partial backing tape since keys are definitely not being played. Vox were live. So at best, only keys were on proverbial tape and they played to a click. They never lipped it, tho.

Again, think of the stage setup for that show.

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:As for Styx, Mr. Roboto was never done live in concert.

Thank God. The worst song ever recorded.

PS- If anyone has HBO, this month, there is a movie on called "The perfect Man" starring Heather Locklear and Hilary Duff. There is a lot of Styx in it and a Sryx tribute band. Very funny stuff.

Roboto, the worse song ever recorded.
I definitely DO agree with you there Dean.

Rockn'deano wrote:

SuiteMadameBlue wrote:As for Styx, Mr. Roboto was never done live in concert.

Thank God. The worst song ever recorded.

PS- If anyone has HBO, this month, there is a movie on called "The perfect Man" starring Heather Locklear and Hilary Duff. There is a lot of Styx in it and a Sryx tribute band. Very funny stuff.

ah, that's your opinion I love that song!! I can think of worse songs, like that creepy "Fish Heads" song !

Dennis had fun making that movie!!

Mrs H wrote:Roboto, the worse song ever recorded.
I definitely DO agree with you there Dean.

I lied. "Baby I'm a Leaving You" is the worst song ever recorded, followed by "Butterfly" THEN, Mr Roboto

Oh come on, "Baby I'm A Leavin' You? was priceless. Written by a typical commitment phobic. More like a comedic song, really. But you, of all people, had to at least appreciate the sick humor in it.

And you wouldn't get "Butterfly". The underlying message is too deep.

Rockn'deano wrote:I lied. "Baby I'm a Leaving You" is the worst song ever recorded, followed by "Butterfly" THEN, Mr Roboto

BIALY is bad if you take it seriously, but as album fluff, it's okay. Fun and experimental.