OK....I cannot stay quiet any longer

[jrnysc]

I have been coming to this site for a long time, and have a great deal of respect for Andrew and his reporting. Have even had the enjoyment of a few emails back and forth about Journey. Although I go to BT still to read, I do not post there much any more for reasons that have been mentioned here plenty before. This news is truly disappointing. I was taking it all as speculation, until today I read the article by Svante. My heart sank. I was already coming to the conclusion something was going on, or I would think the band would have quashed this and laughed it off days ago. Being a regular here, I agree with Andrew that he never seems to have trouble making contact with Journey or their management. Although using backing vocals I am sure is done by half the bands out there touring, if a great deal of the show is being done in this fashion, that will be truly heartbreaking to find out. I have read everything I can find on this matter, and it is sounding worse and worse. I guess what troubles me is I fear this may be the final undoing of my favorite band of all time. They are gracious, generous guys who are some of the best at what they do. I also figure for some reason they have been forced to this by Augeri's voice problems. Honesty would be nice however. If everyone does it, I wish they would just say so. If Augeri is toast, just say so. My other disappointment is that I have tickets to the show in Charlotte in July, and I fear they may never make it that far. Does anyone have any further info. on this from yesterday or today? I was truly hoping they would fix this before the tour begins tonight. How uncomfortable they will probably be walking out on stage tonight.

[perryfan123]

I never really thought SA was the right guy for the job.. He was always like the guy next door and not a rock lead singer. BUT...Im not really sure that deano is even close, but i do think they may use too much help with the vocals. Thet do sound great live! But..but to say he liped the dvd and everything since is really really pushing it.

[jrnysc]

I never really thought SA was the right guy for the job.. He was always like the guy next door and not a rock lead singer. BUT...Im not really sure that deano is even close, but i do think they may use too much help with the vocals. Thet do sound great live! But..but to say he liped the dvd and everything since is really really pushing it.

I cannot buy that one bit to say he lipped the dvd. I would like some good, honest info. on what they are doing, what other bands do, and what percentage of their show is done this way. It would also be interesting to know where these vocal tracks were recorded.

[Pit]

I never really thought SA was the right guy for the job.. He was always like the guy next door and not a rock lead singer. BUT...Im not really sure that deano is even close, but i do think they may use too much help with the vocals. Thet do sound great live! But..but to say he liped the dvd and everything since is really really pushing it.

I cannot buy that one bit to say he lipped the dvd. I would like some good, honest info. on what they are doing, what other bands do, and what percentage of their show is done this way. It would also be interesting to know where these vocal tracks were recorded.

There's no such thing as good honest info here bud. You've been around far to long, attended to many shows to fall for this load of crapola. here's yopur answer, and don't look for that needle in the haystack that isn't there. Some people have had Stevie in their sights for 8 friggin years, and your last responder just bares it out more.

here's all you need, use your head, don't let the heart cloud the issue.

The tapes all sound the same cause the only thing the bootlegger has is 1 live CD to play over the terribly recorded audience crowd noise, echo, ushers, howlers, and screaming fans. It's as simple as that. JRNY makes soundboard recordings every night. Every show for 8 years. Do you really think they would have to fall back on a show everyone has at home?

The short - long answer is no and get real!!!

Enjoy Charlotte as planned. JRNY will be there, and Stevie will be good and warmed up by then, even when he's just showing off.......hehe!

Light 'em on the road my brother, and Happy (6/23) Anniversary to Stevie, and Lydia Augeri. The finest people I have ever known.

Pit

[jrnysc]

I never really thought SA was the right guy for the job.. He was always like the guy next door and not a rock lead singer. BUT...Im not really sure that deano is even close, but i do think they may use too much help with the vocals. Thet do sound great live! But..but to say he liped the dvd and everything since is really really pushing it.

I cannot buy that one bit to say he lipped the dvd. I would like some good, honest info. on what they are doing, what other bands do, and what percentage of their show is done this way. It would also be interesting to know where these vocal tracks were recorded.

There's no such thing as good honest info here bud. You've been around far to long, attended to many shows to fall for this load of crapola. here's yopur answer, and don't look for that needle in the haystack that isn't there. Some people have had Stevie in their sights for 8 friggin years, and your last responder just bares it out more.

here's all you need, use your head, don't let the heart cloud the issue.

The tapes all sound the same cause the only thing the bootlegger has is 1 live CD to play over the terribly recorded audience crowd noise, echo, ushers, howlers, and screaming fans. It's as simple as that. JRNY makes soundboard recordings every night. Every show for 8 years. Do you really think they would have to fall back on a show everyone has at home?

The short - long answer is no and get real!!!

Enjoy Charlotte as planned. JRNY will be there, and Stevie will be good and warmed up by then, even when he's just showing off.......hehe!

Light 'em on the road my brother, and Happy (6/23) Anniversary to Stevie, and Lydia Augeri. The finest people I have ever known.

Pit

Thanks my friend. Makes me feel a little better. I have only had the delight of meeting Ross in person, and almost Jonathan however he was not very nice to me and my wife (Messed up on a song during the show), but I have heard nothing but great things about Steve. Actually he was riding their bus that night, but was already there with a sore throat. I guess my thoughts are if it is only to help him out a bit, that would be fine with me. If it is a lot more than that, it would be disappointing. Still the best live band out there as far as I'm concerned.

[Pit]

There's no such thing as good honest info here bud. You've been around far to long, attended to many shows to fall for this load of crapola. here's yopur answer, and don't look for that needle in the haystack that isn't there. Some people have had Stevie in their sights for 8 friggin years, and your last responder just bares it out more.

here's all you need, use your head, don't let the heart cloud the issue.

The tapes all sound the same cause the only thing the bootlegger has is 1 live CD to play over the terribly recorded audience crowd noise, echo, ushers, howlers, and screaming fans. It's as simple as that. JRNY makes soundboard recordings every night. Every show for 8 years. Do you really think they would have to fall back on a show everyone has at home?

The short - long answer is no and get real!!!

Enjoy Charlotte as planned. JRNY will be there, and Stevie will be good and warmed up by then, even when he's just showing off.......hehe!

Light 'em on the road my brother, and Happy (6/23) Anniversary to Stevie, and Lydia Augeri. The finest people I have ever known.

Pit

Thanks my friend. Makes me feel a little better. I have only had the delight of meeting Ross in person, and almost Jonathan however he was not very nice to me and my wife (Messed up on a song during the show), but I have heard nothing but great things about Steve. Actually he was riding their bus that night, but was already there with a sore throat. I guess my thoughts are if it is only to help him out a bit, that would be fine with me. If it is a lot more than that, it would be disappointing. Still the best live band out there as far as I'm concerned.

Feel better and yes there is no one more upset than Jon he hits a wrong note. He's a self critique for sure. Maybe you'll get another shot, and it's just luck of the draw. He's intense, but I respect that. It's a rare occasion if one single band member don't have a few seconds for fans, and they can tell in a New York second who's been a fan forever, like yourself, and who hasn't. Stevie has his own routine to stay healthy so just because you didn't see him don't mean he had a sore throat; It's just a good & quick, and moves things along.

pit

[WalrusOct9]

The tapes all sound the same cause the only thing the bootlegger has is 1 live CD to play over the terribly recorded audience crowd noise, echo, ushers, howlers, and screaming fans. It's as simple as that. JRNY makes soundboard recordings every night. Every show for 8 years. Do you really think they would have to fall back on a show everyone has at home?

You really think people took the time to go record a show, then doctor their audience tape with officially released material? Please.

The Manchester recording I used to make the Vegas sync-ups I posted in the other thread came directly from the taper, and it's a very good audience recording from a guy who's taped several shows. It's an audience tape, but the crowd noise is unobtrusive and all the instruments and vocals are clear in the mix.

Why they resorted to using a recording everyone has...I have no idea. Not exactly a bright move. But they did, and if you don't believe me, listen to the "Seperate Ways" and "Stone In Love" files I posted and isolate the Manchester recording on the right channel...it's sad but true, sorry.

[jrnysc]

There's no such thing as good honest info here bud. You've been around far to long, attended to many shows to fall for this load of crapola. here's yopur answer, and don't look for that needle in the haystack that isn't there. Some people have had Stevie in their sights for 8 friggin years, and your last responder just bares it out more.

here's all you need, use your head, don't let the heart cloud the issue.

The tapes all sound the same cause the only thing the bootlegger has is 1 live CD to play over the terribly recorded audience crowd noise, echo, ushers, howlers, and screaming fans. It's as simple as that. JRNY makes soundboard recordings every night. Every show for 8 years. Do you really think they would have to fall back on a show everyone has at home?

The short - long answer is no and get real!!!

Enjoy Charlotte as planned. JRNY will be there, and Stevie will be good and warmed up by then, even when he's just showing off.......hehe!

Light 'em on the road my brother, and Happy (6/23) Anniversary to Stevie, and Lydia Augeri. The finest people I have ever known.

Pit

Thanks my friend. Makes me feel a little better. I have only had the delight of meeting Ross in person, and almost Jonathan however he was not very nice to me and my wife (Messed up on a song during the show), but I have heard nothing but great things about Steve. Actually he was riding their bus that night, but was already there with a sore throat. I guess my thoughts are if it is only to help him out a bit, that would be fine with me. If it is a lot more than that, it would be disappointing. Still the best live band out there as far as I'm concerned.

Feel better and yes there is no one more upset than Jon he hits a wrong note. He's a self critique for sure. Maybe you'll get another shot, and it's just luck of the draw. He's intense, but I respect that. It's a rare occasion if one single band member don't have a few seconds for fans, and they can tell in a New York second who's been a fan forever, like yourself, and who hasn't. Stevie has his own routine to stay healthy so just because you didn't see him don't mean he had a sore throat; It's just a good & quick, and moves things along.

pit

It was purely luck anyway. I saw them in the hotel lobby in Baltimore after the show. Ross walked up to me at the ATM and asked me if I enjoyed the show. I about crapped myself!! LOL Jonathan was upstairs taking a shower, and we saw him walk through the lobby. Their tour manager was cool as he could be, and I talked to him for about 20 minutes or so. He is the one who told me Steve had a bit of a sore throat and stayed on the bus. He also said they rarely ever go back to the hotel after a show. Neal and D Man were on the other bus on the way to Connecticut. Anyway, it was awesome. Truly nice, professional guys. My wife drank a glass of tequila Ross had and handed him the empty glass!! LOL He got a kick out of that. Anyway, I hope they are confident and strong tonight.

[Red13JoePa]

JRNY makes soundboard recordings every night. Every show for 8 years. Do you really think they would have to fall back on a show everyone has at home? [/b]

The short - long answer is no and get real!!!

Ding Ding Ding ding ding !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Major credibility obstacle to it there. I don't give a shit how many geeks come in and say they digitally synched this that or the other thing up and it's all off the Vig dvd. There's no way they'd be that dumb with all the available recordings.

[Jeremey]

Ding Ding Ding ding ding !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Major credibility obstacle to it there. I don't give a shit how many geeks come in and say they digitally synched this that or the other thing up and it's all off the Vig dvd. There's no way they'd be that dumb with all the available recordings.

That's what I don't understand, Red.....I've synched up the tracks myself, as have others independently, and that's what is happening. I tried to offer an explanation OTHER than lip synching, but no one wants to talk about that. Why Journey would use such readily available tracks is beyond me, but I can't figure out how it is that they are the same vocal tracks, and I don't buy that someone has "doctored up" the bootleg recordings, they are recordings that have been circulating for months and months, before this whole contraversy even started...

[zino]

JOePa

Well said, If they really wanted to do this they would of found a better way, I think it is all horses#$t !!!!!!

No matter what comes out of this people will believe what they want to believe.

Im waiting for the reviews of tonights show too start rolling in!!


WE ARE....................PENN STATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Was at the O Bowl this year to see the field goal missing contest



Zino

[WalrusOct9]

Dumb moves are often made in the name of laziness or convenience. (especially since it's likely that the responsibility of assembling and compiling the vocal tape probably was given to only one person to minimize the number of people who knew about it. He then would go from the easiest available sources for most of the songs: the pro-tools ready Vegas recording and the Generations album...except for the low part before Neal's solo, "Faith In the Heartland" is lip synced entirely from the studio version, I can post that one too if you don't believe me)

That was my first thought when I first heard about this...why would they be dumb enough to use the DVD soundtrack, or dumber yet, the "Generations" vocal track? Convenience is the only thing I could come up with...Vegas is pro-tooled up and ready to go. They probably just didn't think anyone would notice since 95% of their audience is casual fans who just want to hear the hits.

[Red13JoePa]

Well then, Pitman's other point must be looked at as well. Several of us here including Deano have the vegas dvd audio on cd.

"sounds too good. Must be lipping. Wonder what're they lipping to. the vegas dvd, after all you can put that audio track on cd."



It fits the theory when you begin the quest determined to find only 1 outcome.

[WalrusOct9]

Actually no, my hope when I synched up Manchester to the DVD was that they'd be different. That this was all bullshit.

I didn't have to search for the conclusion that I came to, it was just there. Did you even listen to the tracks I posted? The vocals are identical. It's not like I'm searching for this conclusion...it kills me to say it. But they are. And no, I didn't isolate the vocal from anything and put it on some other recording (then you'd hear two Steve's, wouldn't you?) I don't even know how to do that, I'm just a guitar player with a simplistic home recording setup.

Seriously. Listen first. I want you to download "Seperate Ways" and tell me at what point the vocals are different in the two recordings.

[Jeremey]

Actually no, my hope when I synched up Manchester to the DVD was that they'd be different. That this was all bullshit.

I didn't have to search for the conclusion that I came to, it was just there. Did you even listen to the tracks I posted? The vocals are identical. It's not like I'm searching for this conclusion...it kills me to say it. But they are. And no, I didn't isolate the vocal from anything and put it on some other recording (then you'd hear two Steve's, wouldn't you?) I don't even know how to do that, I'm just a guitar player with a simplistic home recording setup.

Seriously. Listen first. I want you to download "Seperate Ways" and tell me at what point the vocals are different in the two recordings.

Me too....I will post some things later this evening that I've worked on that will hopefully shed some light on the two theories...

[Pit]

Actually no, my hope when I synched up Manchester to the DVD was that they'd be different. That this was all bullshit.

I didn't have to search for the conclusion that I came to, it was just there. Did you even listen to the tracks I posted? The vocals are identical. It's not like I'm searching for this conclusion...it kills me to say it. But they are. And no, I didn't isolate the vocal from anything and put it on some other recording (then you'd hear two Steve's, wouldn't you?) I don't even know how to do that, I'm just a guitar player with a simplistic home recording setup.

Seriously. Listen first. I want you to download "Seperate Ways" and tell me at what point the vocals are different in the two recordings.

The fades in the vocals are all different. Every single one. You can hear what you want to hear finding that needle. Synching? Get real. I went to a studio, and even the two techs had a hard time synching, but when they did, when they got it right, 4/4 time breaths were off. Don't forget just how talented these guys are.

Got a metronome at home?

I didn't think so.

BUT! Just as hear what you want to hear, forget what you wanna forget. The cry that Generations was put to tape live was your bootleggers biggest mistake by far. 23 days of rehearsal before proceeding to record the actual record with the producer. That material is as fresh in every nook and cranny of everybody who worked on the project.

High notes?

Jon is the only one who has high notes on Generations, and he relies more on head - than diaphragm - when he sings than other member.

The last chorus in 'Knowing that You Love Me.' blows away any contention at all that Stevie Augeri has voice issues. Sam friggin Cook could not have performed the song any better, and gut busting emotion emanating from Stevie is just incredible.

I'd be sorry too if I were you. There's just nothing there but a lot of reaches, and mights.

Mights grow on chickens. Wanna try other confusing inuendo that people who only hear what they hear "might" take a second look at?

Pit

[EightyRock]

I don't see what there is to argue about. Svante Pettersson and the engineers in the truck already heard what Augeri sounded like for real AND the fixed version that went out to the crowd. What part of that don't you get? You can scream no, no, NO as long as you want, but it's already been brought out in the open now. You can knock yourself out saying it just isn't so, but those guys caught them red-handed.

[AR]

I never really thought SA was the right guy for the job..

He was the right guy for the job. He's now 47 and constant touring has blown his voice out. The "god" that is Steve perry to some of these freaks, was VERY smart. Get out while you can still do it.

The tapes all sound the same because the bootlegger has 1 CD

I have heard many more than what have been presented. I can vouch for Augeri up to a show in Oakland in early 05, but the Generations tour is B.S. Believe me, I am a S.A. fan and I am sad about this. Read any of my previous posts here or on BT under the same user name.

Right now I am 15 minutes from the Tweeter Center in Camden, NJ. Hoping for the best but expecting.....well, you know.[/quote]

[Pit]

I don't see what there is to argue about. Svante Pettersson and the engineers in the truck already heard what Augeri sounded like for real AND the fixed version that went out to the crowd. What part of that don't you get? You can scream no, no, NO as long as you want, but it's already been brought out in the open now. You can knock yourself out saying it just isn't so, but those guys caught them red-handed.

Savant is not savant. That's already been established. Got anything else?

pit

[KittyKat]

Has anybody tried taking out the music from the two and just running the vocals side by side? I'd like to hear an isolated version of just the two vocals byt I don't know if that's possible to do.

[AR]

Pit, I argued the same thing you were until I sat back and listened and watched shows that you don't have access to.

I felt the same way as you did until I went back and really examined things. (without the loud amps at the shows and a few beers in me)

Early shows from 98 - 2002/3 S.A> sounds damn good, but there are spots where he has his problems as most singers will. (Ditto S.P. on earlier shows)

Now, S.A. is album perfect every night - that's not possible. Sorry. Especially on shows where he sounds bad and all of the sudden hits everything like a home run.

Again, I am a great fan of S.A. I think the band IMO justs wants the cash and Steve be damned. Tour incessantly and get the money. Who cares if Steve's voice is shot?

My judgement is from 16 live shows I've seen Steve sing in person and countless tapes/CD's/DVD's that I have heard.

[Journey/Survivor]

As has been said already, there is no way that Journey would be so stupid as to use a recording that almost every Journey fan owns to have Augeri "lip-sync" to!

They would have used another show that is not available to the general public.

If Augeri were to lip-sync he would have to live in a constant fear that he might accidentally drop the microphone with the tape still playing.

I have seen times where a microphone stand gets knocked over but Augeri didn't see it happen, and then he has almost tripped and fallen over the stand while he is holding the microphone in his hand. If he would trip and drop the microphone the tape would have kept playing and then he and Journey would have been a laughing stock. They wouldn't risk that!!!

I have seen many occasions where a singer either sings the wrong verse, or that he forgets the line all together. If Augeri were lip-syncing he would have to make sure that you couldn't see his mouth for fear that you could see him not singing or singing the wrong words. If he were singing along to a recording of himself where we were hearing both him live and on tape it would be easy to find occasions where he does not match-up exactly with the recording.

Although Augeri sounds great in general, in every show you will hear occasions where he hits a really bad note, and there is no way the band would use recordings of him sounding that bad.

And if any Steve Perry fans (and I myself am as big of a Steve Perry fan as there is) want to knock Augeri for hitting bad notes, I have live recordings of Steve Perry that are painfull to listen to because he hits so many bad notes.

[Journey/Survivor]

I don't see what there is to argue about. Svante Pettersson and the engineers in the truck already heard what Augeri sounded like for real AND the fixed version that went out to the crowd. What part of that don't you get? You can scream no, no, NO as long as you want, but it's already been brought out in the open now. You can knock yourself out saying it just isn't so, but those guys caught them red-handed.

I know that wasn't directed to me, but let me add my own opinion on that.

I don't really give a shit what Svante Petterson says!!!
Svante Petterson's claim is no more valid than mine or anyone elses!!!

[Pit]

Pit, I argued the same thing you were until I sat back and listened and watched shows that you don't have access to.

I felt the same way as you did until I went back and really examined things. (without the loud amps at the shows and a few beers in me)

Thats to bad. Maybe the beers were a good thing. Guarantee ya they'll get ya passed the voice to the music. On DBoy Frauds earlier illigel music Jon and Neal sounded the same too. They were playing exactly the same notes. Can you not see that? Hear that?

Some nites Ross and Dean are all over the place, but do they make the same fills every night? Nope. Jon and Neal rarely miss except for improvs, and would the added piano & guitar to get everyone back to the same place be the exact same on all?

Hell no.

Get real.


The bootlegger didn't have the talent to isolate just the vocals, and few do, so the same ole guitar and piano from Vegas end up on all the boots. They are masked in some cases, just like the "Are you Crazy" vocal from be good to yourself. Dozens and Dozens of people who were actually in Manchester have stepped up and said that the "Are you Crazy" was not vocalized in Manchester. They were listening for it because they've heard it over and over and over again at home. Hello!!!

It's vocalized on them illegal boots though. Every last one of them. It's over man. Over. The live shows are in full swing, and someone is going to be hanging head very soon.

pit

[Infinity]

It's over man. Over.

Then why are you still coming back here and shpit yourself trying to convince people that Journey is ok?
Gotta love ya,man!

Change your profession,dude.Write monologues.

[Pit]

It's over man. Over.

Then why are you still coming back here and shpit yourself trying to convince people that Journey is ok?
Gotta love ya,man!

Change your profession,dude.Write monologues.

'Cuz you guys keep changing your tune. One day it's this, one day it's that.

"It should have been Hugo, or Jeremy to replace Perry!"
INFINITY

Remember that one chief? You numb nuts expose your agenda's at almost every turn. You didn't count on that fly in the oinment though did you?

pit

[EightyRock]

"Savant is not savant. That's already been established. Got anything else"

You are saying that Swepett is not Svante Pettersson and that Svante has not actually been on here posting, and confirming what they recorded and heard?

[Infinity]

"It should have been Hugo, or Jeremy to replace Perry!"
INFINITY
Remember that one chief?

Excuse me? What was that? Are you saying that I posted that?You will have to do better than that,man.Find my post,bring it here.
Or explain.But in plain English,please.

[Pit]

"It should have been Hugo, or Jeremy to replace Perry!"
INFINITY
Remember that one chief?

Excuse me? What was that? Are you saying that I posted that?You will have to do better than that,man.Find my post,bring it here.
Or explain.But in plain English,please.

Your words man. Plain and simple. If Andy had not deleted just certain threads, I'm sure you could find it.

And I have a question for all you ardent Pheads. Honest answer only please.

Why is Hugo such a big deal to you? The first time i heard about him I went to look at webshots ofa local show here at The Mall of Georgia or some place like that.

The first pic I laid eyes on had this dude with a big nose standing there wearing tuxedo tails. Now get this. I've met SP, and can't say I was impressed with he as a human one single bit, yet I do try to respect his contributions to JRNY. "Opened the Door" still edges out "All the Things" as my favorite tune ever. Lot more to do with Neal's subtle brilliance than anything, but................

If you all are so adamant about Mr P, yet scream Hugo all day long, how in the hell can you let him get away with wearing tails in a performance?
Thats blasphemy if there ever was. Perry's entire solo tour was based on those tails falling from the rafters, and it's his signature, and his alone. But it's OK for Hugo. He's no fraud.

And you are all two faced as hell too. An agenda against Stevie plain and simple. Stevie has far to much class to do something like that, and did everything but bow to SP in Hollywood, yet you still don't cut him a single break. Hang onto your '78 Camaro memories all you want, but Stevie Augeri grew up learning how to respect, and I can't say the same thing for a singl Phead I've ever known save one. Sadly, I'm not the only one who can't say it about SP either. Self respect or otherwise.

pit

[Infinity]

"Savant is not savant. That's already been established. Got anything else"

You are saying that Swepett is not Svante Pettersson and that Svante has not actually been on here posting, and confirming what they recorded and heard?

Come on,EightyRock,don't you know that Pit is our little Shakespeare?
We need a goddamned translation everytime he posts his skimble-skamble sonnets!I think he wanted to say that Svante is not a *savant* as in a learned person,a scientist...
Because if he really meant that Svante is a fake,then I'd say Pit is gone haywire.