Is this the Journey's end?

[bionic]

From the sounds of the current shows Journey are hobbling along,Steve's voice is not up to much and it sounds like they are using a lot less in the way of tapes.Why? they are aware that people know,why else would you drop their biggest selling single 'open Arms' yet play Generations?
Dean is helping Steve through 'Escape' this is the hardest song for Steve to sing,he told me this backstage at the Greek in October! Luckily they have a shorter set which is easier on Steve,plus Dean is singing around 5 songs of that.Can you imagine Whitesnake having the drummer sing 5 songs of their set???....wouldn't happen.
When this kicked off i emailed the BT Moderators who dismissed the rumour and said quote'That The Band Would Be Addressing The Rumours and Innuendo'....yet nothing?
Andrew who has a good relationship with the band has emailed them....nothing?
It seems radio has mentioned it,what happens when a magazine like Rolling Stone who never rated the band get this? Or a band member like Dee Snider who has been vocal that Journey without Perry is not Journey mentions this?
How many people were shocked when the band moved on without Perry? Yet we supported them with Augeri as he did a great job......can we really support them now? If you went to see Steve Vai play and he had two other guitarists playing his parts what would you think,what if he was miming to tapes of himself what would you think?
The band are losing everthing they have worked to achieve since Perry left the band.They have a 48 year old singer trying to replicate the vocal of Perry when he was at his best,not easy.
Kevin Chalfont of The Storm once said on seeing Journey,'they should play down a step to help Steve 'as he was working so hard to hit the notes,that was in 2001! Steve still has a voice but not enough to sing a set with Journey without help...Dean/tapes.
The end of this tour they MUST do something,Steve will not get better neither will there reputation if they carry on as they have.Either get a new singer(not sure if this would work...Augeri is very popular) or call it a day.I know they need to work to pay the bills but this will destroy the legacy of the band.They will finish at this rate with everyone saying 'You just cant replace Perry ,Journey have proven that'.

[conversationpc]

Can you imagine Whitesnake having the drummer sing 5 songs of their set???....wouldn't happen.

Whitesnake doesn't have a drummer that can sing like Deen Castronovo, either.

[wildone]

Can you imagine Whitesnake having the drummer sing 5 songs of their set???....wouldn't happen.

Whitesnake doesn't have a drummer that can sing like Deen Castronovo, either.

Neither does journey!!!They don't have a lead singer that can sing like deen castronovo...

[Red13JoePa]

On the Open Arms issue, we discussed this here when news of this double billing broke here and most people felt that with a lot of Def Leppard fans going to be present, there's just no way Journey should subject them both Faithfully AND Open Arms. I just don't think it would go over well, and so far it looks like the band agree.

[LadySlang9]

On the Open Arms issue, we discussed this here when news of this double billing broke here and most people felt that with a lot of Def Leppard fans going to be present, there's just no way Journey should subject them both Faithfully AND Open Arms. I just don't think it would go over well, and so far it looks like the band agree.

But those two songs are ones that many of us Def Leppard fans are familiar with. I like both of those songs.

Reading posts like this have given me a wonderful insight. Thanks.

I've always been annoyed at the Leppards for keeping so many hits in their set list when there are sooo many album cuts that I would prefer to hear.

But, looking at it from the prospect of seeing Journey for the very first time, I'm wanting to hear Journey's hits and not the stuff they have done that hasn't been on the radio.

So, I now understand why Leppard wants to keep the hits on the set list -- casual fans probably perfer it.

I'm a very casual Journey fan I know that I would prefer to hear their hits over album cuts that I haven't heard ...

[augeri1]

When this kicked off i emailed the BT Moderators who dismissed the rumour and said quote'That The Band Would Be Addressing The Rumours and Innuendo'....yet nothing?
Andrew who has a good relationship with the band has emailed them....nothing?

Has Andrew said he hasn't gotten a response? I'm sure he has, eh Andy?...as for everyone else, the band would be wise to not even acknowledge these foolish accusations..although if it were me...I'd invite Deano to a show..bring him on stage and introduce him to the audience...state his mission, read a few quotes off of this forum and his blog...throw him in the audience and let them take care of him...then continue on with the show...but that's just me.
What's really comical is all the followers who believe this shit are still going to the shows..if your so ANGRY, why not sell your ticket to a real fan who would be happy to be there? There's no way your gonna enjoy a show your there to criticize...it's just like being home, scared and alone at night for the first time..every single noise you hear is gonna have you wondering...paranoia...ya think? yep

[wildone]

When this kicked off i emailed the BT Moderators who dismissed the rumour and said quote'That The Band Would Be Addressing The Rumours and Innuendo'....yet nothing?
Andrew who has a good relationship with the band has emailed them....nothing?

Has Andrew said he hasn't gotten a response? I'm sure he has, eh Andy?...as for everyone else, the band would be wise to not even acknowledge these foolish accusations..although if it were me...I'd invite Deano to a show..bring him on stage and introduce him to the audience...state his mission, read a few quotes off of this forum and his blog...throw him in the audience and let them take care of him...then continue on with the show...but that's just me.
What's really comical is all the followers who believe this shit are still going to the shows..if your so ANGRY, why not sell your ticket to a real fan who would be happy to be there? There's no way your gonna enjoy a show your there to criticize...it's just like being home, scared and alone at night for the first time..every single noise you hear is gonna have you wondering...paranoia...ya think? yep

They should acknowledge these items ..If it's on mainstream radio(and it has been) don't you think that might sway a buyer not to go to a show and I'm not talking about you hard core cult people just the average fan who would like the flashback?....

[*Laura]

[ the band would be wise to not even acknowledge these foolish accusations..

Wise?You think it's wise to ignore the ones who are buying your albums,your t-shirts,your DVDs and your concert tickets?Hmm...
It is obvious that ALL the Journey fans no matter on which side of the fence they stand,are waiting for an official response.
It's not about Journey responding to ONE fan but to hundreds of them,maybe thousands.That should make Journey think better before walking away from the problem in silence.
This whole thing is already out there,no matter what you believe,this is not about a simple accusation on a message board anymore...
Think.

[Rock Fn]

It's apparent that Journey is on the down side of their career. When Deen C is singing a 1/3 of the set, that should tell you something. I hope he doesn't burn out. He puts out so much energy on stage. I would live to see him out front with a microphone, but I don't think he would be comfortable with that.

I no longer have the desire to see them anymore. They look old and tired on stage. I'm going to remember them as the super group they once were. Big sound, big production and one of the best live shows ever. Those days are long gone.

[jrnysc]

Ok, I had typed a long one and lost it. I will try to trim this down with my opinion.
1. Yes, I think there is evidence to support the claims here TO SOME EXTENT. I was at work when I first listened to the tracks, and could not turn them up loud enough to really hear. At home I turned them up on a nice system and you could hear the recorded vocals kick in AT TIMES. I was expecting some Milli Vanilli shit. That is not what this was AT ALL. That why I will say the accusations are HALF TRUE.
2. Do I think Journey will respond? Probably not. If what I heard on the tracks was correct, live bands do that every day all over the United States. It is called live performance. Journey has probably done this some for years, just like everyone else. That is one reason they will probably say nothing. Another is they are not going to worry about the accusations of a couple of people. To them it's a non-issue, and perhaps even chuckled a bit over it, as long as it causes them no harm. Then it's called libel and slander, and can be prosecuted. Do I think they would? No. Unless they simply want to prove the claims false. Remember, they have been accused of lipping entire shows and songs, not using backup vocal tracks. The only other time I could see them responding would be if someone like VH1 aired it, however if what I heard is correct, I don't believe they would be interested. They would say "yeah, and?". It's part of live performance.
3. Do I think Steve is having some issues? Yes. That goes without saying. I simply wish him the best. He has done a great job, and hopefully he will get through the tour, and be able to rest his voice for a year or so. Deen covering some songs again is genius IMO. He sounds more like Perry to me than Steve does, and that takes a HUGE load off of Steve. I personally think the long shows was not a good idea last year, although fans loved it. Deen can also catch some of the high notes, which will help him rest his chords. That with the pre-recorded vocals to help at times should get him through.
4. Do I think this is the end of Journey? No, not unless they want it to be. Steve may have to take a year or so off, but I really don't see anything beyond that going on.
5. My final conclusion is that while I think there is genuine evidence of pre-recorded vocals being used, it is not illegal, deceitful, or anything else IMO. It's live performance. Once again, I think that is why they have said nothing. It's a non-issue to them. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just my opinion. Yes, I was hurt and angry at first, but once I listened for myself, I realized why they sound so good just about every time I see them, just like DL and other great live bands I have seen. I actually learned something about the business, so I am in a weird kind of way glad this happened.

[bionic]

Ok, I had typed a long one and lost it. I will try to trim this down with my opinion.
1. Yes, I think there is evidence to support the claims here TO SOME EXTENT. I was at work when I first listened to the tracks, and could not turn them up loud enough to really hear. At home I turned them up on a nice system and you could hear the recorded vocals kick in AT TIMES. I was expecting some Milli Vanilli shit. That is not what this was AT ALL. That why I will say the accusations are HALF TRUE.
2. Do I think Journey will respond? Probably not. If what I heard on the tracks was correct, live bands do that every day all over the United States. It is called live performance. Journey has probably done this some for years, just like everyone else. That is one reason they will probably say nothing. Another is they are not going to worry about the accusations of a couple of people. To them it's a non-issue, and perhaps even chuckled a bit over it, as long as it causes them no harm. Then it's called libel and slander, and can be prosecuted. Do I think they would? No. Unless they simply want to prove the claims false. Remember, they have been accused of lipping entire shows and songs, not using backup vocal tracks. The only other time I could see them responding would be if someone like VH1 aired it, however if what I heard is correct, I don't believe they would be interested. They would say "yeah, and?". It's part of live performance.
3. Do I think Steve is having some issues? Yes. That goes without saying. I simply wish him the best. He has done a great job, and hopefully he will get through the tour, and be able to rest his voice for a year or so. Deen covering some songs again is genius IMO. He sounds more like Perry to me than Steve does, and that takes a HUGE load off of Steve. I personally think the long shows was not a good idea last year, although fans loved it. Deen can also catch some of the high notes, which will help him rest his chords. That with the pre-recorded vocals to help at times should get him through.
4. Do I think this is the end of Journey? No, not unless they want it to be. Steve may have to take a year or so off, but I really don't see anything beyond that going on.
5. My final conclusion is that while I think there is genuine evidence of pre-recorded vocals being used, it is not illegal, deceitful, or anything else IMO. It's live performance. Once again, I think that is why they have said nothing. It's a non-issue to them. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just my opinion. Yes, I was hurt and angry at first, but once I listened for myself, I realized why they sound so good just about every time I see them, just like DL and other great live bands I have seen. I actually learned something about the business, so I am in a weird kind of way glad this happened.

I doubt the band will have a year off for Augeri as i think his voice is plain worn out,plus the bands main income is from live shows.So were do we go from here? Remember he had problems last year they are still touring.
I do accept that there is taped help at shows but if you no longer have that ability its over,your ability got you there in the first case. Led Zep, Deep Purple ,Journey in the 80's ,ac/dc manage with out tapes so why cant Journey? If you suddenly have to use tapes at a stage in your career then there is a problem! Some people can not be impressed by a singer lipping some can.If you are the ones who are not impressed and have paid money then you have a right to know so you can make the decision of attending or not.
Have you ever come away from a show and said wow what a guitarist or singer,if thats on tape that feeling is gone and the show will not mean the same to you , so you would not have attended.
If Journey are using tapes to get by,then for me its over.I respect that some people dont care or mind and thats great for you and the Band!
Just be honest with me ,miming is not a talent i care to pay for.

[jrnysc]

Ok, I had typed a long one and lost it. I will try to trim this down with my opinion.
1. Yes, I think there is evidence to support the claims here TO SOME EXTENT. I was at work when I first listened to the tracks, and could not turn them up loud enough to really hear. At home I turned them up on a nice system and you could hear the recorded vocals kick in AT TIMES. I was expecting some Milli Vanilli shit. That is not what this was AT ALL. That why I will say the accusations are HALF TRUE.
2. Do I think Journey will respond? Probably not. If what I heard on the tracks was correct, live bands do that every day all over the United States. It is called live performance. Journey has probably done this some for years, just like everyone else. That is one reason they will probably say nothing. Another is they are not going to worry about the accusations of a couple of people. To them it's a non-issue, and perhaps even chuckled a bit over it, as long as it causes them no harm. Then it's called libel and slander, and can be prosecuted. Do I think they would? No. Unless they simply want to prove the claims false. Remember, they have been accused of lipping entire shows and songs, not using backup vocal tracks. The only other time I could see them responding would be if someone like VH1 aired it, however if what I heard is correct, I don't believe they would be interested. They would say "yeah, and?". It's part of live performance.
3. Do I think Steve is having some issues? Yes. That goes without saying. I simply wish him the best. He has done a great job, and hopefully he will get through the tour, and be able to rest his voice for a year or so. Deen covering some songs again is genius IMO. He sounds more like Perry to me than Steve does, and that takes a HUGE load off of Steve. I personally think the long shows was not a good idea last year, although fans loved it. Deen can also catch some of the high notes, which will help him rest his chords. That with the pre-recorded vocals to help at times should get him through.
4. Do I think this is the end of Journey? No, not unless they want it to be. Steve may have to take a year or so off, but I really don't see anything beyond that going on.
5. My final conclusion is that while I think there is genuine evidence of pre-recorded vocals being used, it is not illegal, deceitful, or anything else IMO. It's live performance. Once again, I think that is why they have said nothing. It's a non-issue to them. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just my opinion. Yes, I was hurt and angry at first, but once I listened for myself, I realized why they sound so good just about every time I see them, just like DL and other great live bands I have seen. I actually learned something about the business, so I am in a weird kind of way glad this happened.

I doubt the band will have a year off for Augeri as i think his voice is plain worn out,plus the bands main income is from live shows.So were do we go from here? Remember he had problems last year they are still touring.
I do accept that there is taped help at shows but if you no longer have that ability its over,your ability got you there in the first case. Led Zep, Deep Purple ,Journey in the 80's ,ac/dc manage with out tapes so why cant Journey? If you suddenly have to use tapes at a stage in your career then there is a problem! Some people can not be impressed by a singer lipping some can.If you are the ones who are not impressed and have paid money then you have a right to know so you can make the decision of attending or not.
Have you ever come away from a show and said wow what a guitarist or singer,if thats on tape that feeling is gone and the show will not mean the same to you , so you would not have attended.
If Journey are using tapes to get by,then for me its over.I respect that some people dont care or mind and thats great for you and the Band!
Just be honest with me ,miming is not a talent i care to pay for.

I understand and respect your opinion. I will tell you an interesting comment my wife made to me last evening discussing this. Please understand I have been a die hard fan for 25 years. She has been a fan that likes to see them live for about 5 or 6 years. She told me "if you think Perry NEVER used pre-recorded vocals live your sadly mistaken. I really don't see what the big deal is, and I assumed you always knew that was used in live performance" She made me feel like a dumbass, although she didn't mean it that way. My opinion was I think it's a stretch to say they are using them to "get by". They probably used them SOME when Augeri was fine and Perry probably did at times as well. Perhaps a little more if Augeri's voice is struggling. My other point was my belief is that is why Journey says nothing. It's a NORMAL part of a live performance. Once again. I respect your opinion and understand your feelings. I really do. I know that one day the Journey will end. I am going to enjoy the band who's music I love for as long as I can.

[augeri1]

It's not about Journey responding to ONE fan but to hundreds of them,maybe thousands.

thousands? don't flatter yourself, or Deano

[*Laura]

It's not about Journey responding to ONE fan but to hundreds of them,maybe thousands.

thousands? don't flatter yourself, or Deano

Flatter ourselfs? Seriously,what is wrong with you? I was talking about the fact that the news is out there and it is spreading like wildfire.
That's what the media does in all its forms,you know?Informing THOUSANDS of people.
Wanna bet that at a Journey concert from this tour where there are say 10.000 people in the audience,at least 30% of them know about the lipping?And that's before the show.Make that 60% after the show.Do the math.

[augeri1]

Flatter ourselfs? Seriously,what is wrong with you?

Wrong with me? I'm not the one who's fallen for the BS theory. So desperate you're asking people to post photos of empty seats and accusing the band of placing an extra on the side for backup vocals to throw people off...that's when something's wrong with you.

[shaggy]

But those two songs are ones that many of us Def Leppard fans are familiar with. I like both of those songs.

Reading posts like this have given me a wonderful insight. Thanks.

I've always been annoyed at the Leppards for keeping so many hits in their set list when there are sooo many album cuts that I would prefer to hear.

But, looking at it from the prospect of seeing Journey for the very first time, I'm wanting to hear Journey's hits and not the stuff they have done that hasn't been on the radio.

So, I now understand why Leppard wants to keep the hits on the set list -- casual fans probably perfer it.

I'm a very casual Journey fan I know that I would prefer to hear their hits over album cuts that I haven't heard ...

Isnt this just what gets on our nerves as fans of a band though - when the band just plays all the hits instead of doing the stuff their real fans want to hear? Journey at the Monsters Of Rock show played nothing but the "hits" everyone knows and completely ignored the entire Augeri/Journey stuff. Alice Cooper still insists on playing Poison despite the fact that its become an over-rated tune that's played to death. Leppard probably do a good 70% from Hysteria. And all because there's a huge chunk of part time followers and casuals who go to the shows and only want to hear the popular stuff that they recognise.

At the recent Bon Jovi "show" here in Hull, the majority of the audience were knowledgeable ONLY of the big chart hits like You Give Love A Bad Name and Living On A Prayer, but as soon as they did Runaway or something off the new album, there were thousands of puzzled faces staring blankly at the stage cos they didnt have a clue what the song was or what album it came from. Suddenly the band had lost the audience cos they didnt know the songs and the vibe is gone.

There was a time when you went to a gig, you were among die hard fans of that band who knew all the songs word for word, could tell you tracklistings for all the albums, even tell you who the sound engineer was.... real fans. A band could go onstage and know the audience were going to be with them from start to finish. The shows were electrifying and energetic. They were fun and you had a real sense of cameraderie with the other fans. Nobody came out with a dumb comment like "what do they call the drummer?". Nowadays sadly, bands have to contend with alot of people who are only going along cos its better than watching the tv that night. Is this what hard rock and heavy metal has become? - just an alternative to watching a rerun of Friends or whatever?

[*Laura]

the BS theory

Hey,I could say that about YOUR theory.

Nothing wrong with me.I have a perfect hearing and I make my own decisions.

[wildone]

It's not about Journey responding to ONE fan but to hundreds of them,maybe thousands.

thousands? don't flatter yourself, or Deano

you shouldn't underestimate what's going on either!!

[bionic]

Ok, I had typed a long one and lost it. I will try to trim this down with my opinion.
1. Yes, I think there is evidence to support the claims here TO SOME EXTENT. I was at work when I first listened to the tracks, and could not turn them up loud enough to really hear. At home I turned them up on a nice system and you could hear the recorded vocals kick in AT TIMES. I was expecting some Milli Vanilli shit. That is not what this was AT ALL. That why I will say the accusations are HALF TRUE.
2. Do I think Journey will respond? Probably not. If what I heard on the tracks was correct, live bands do that every day all over the United States. It is called live performance. Journey has probably done this some for years, just like everyone else. That is one reason they will probably say nothing. Another is they are not going to worry about the accusations of a couple of people. To them it's a non-issue, and perhaps even chuckled a bit over it, as long as it causes them no harm. Then it's called libel and slander, and can be prosecuted. Do I think they would? No. Unless they simply want to prove the claims false. Remember, they have been accused of lipping entire shows and songs, not using backup vocal tracks. The only other time I could see them responding would be if someone like VH1 aired it, however if what I heard is correct, I don't believe they would be interested. They would say "yeah, and?". It's part of live performance.
3. Do I think Steve is having some issues? Yes. That goes without saying. I simply wish him the best. He has done a great job, and hopefully he will get through the tour, and be able to rest his voice for a year or so. Deen covering some songs again is genius IMO. He sounds more like Perry to me than Steve does, and that takes a HUGE load off of Steve. I personally think the long shows was not a good idea last year, although fans loved it. Deen can also catch some of the high notes, which will help him rest his chords. That with the pre-recorded vocals to help at times should get him through.
4. Do I think this is the end of Journey? No, not unless they want it to be. Steve may have to take a year or so off, but I really don't see anything beyond that going on.
5. My final conclusion is that while I think there is genuine evidence of pre-recorded vocals being used, it is not illegal, deceitful, or anything else IMO. It's live performance. Once again, I think that is why they have said nothing. It's a non-issue to them. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just my opinion. Yes, I was hurt and angry at first, but once I listened for myself, I realized why they sound so good just about every time I see them, just like DL and other great live bands I have seen. I actually learned something about the business, so I am in a weird kind of way glad this happened.

I doubt the band will have a year off for Augeri as i think his voice is plain worn out,plus the bands main income is from live shows.So were do we go from here? Remember he had problems last year they are still touring.
I do accept that there is taped help at shows but if you no longer have that ability its over,your ability got you there in the first case. Led Zep, Deep Purple ,Journey in the 80's ,ac/dc manage with out tapes so why cant Journey? If you suddenly have to use tapes at a stage in your career then there is a problem! Some people can not be impressed by a singer lipping some can.If you are the ones who are not impressed and have paid money then you have a right to know so you can make the decision of attending or not.
Have you ever come away from a show and said wow what a guitarist or singer,if thats on tape that feeling is gone and the show will not mean the same to you , so you would not have attended.
If Journey are using tapes to get by,then for me its over.I respect that some people dont care or mind and thats great for you and the Band!
Just be honest with me ,miming is not a talent i care to pay for.

I understand and respect your opinion. I will tell you an interesting comment my wife made to me last evening discussing this. Please understand I have been a die hard fan for 25 years. She has been a fan that likes to see them live for about 5 or 6 years. She told me "if you think Perry NEVER used pre-recorded vocals live your sadly mistaken. I really don't see what the big deal is, and I assumed you always knew that was used in live performance" She made me feel like a dumbass, although she didn't mean it that way. My opinion was I think it's a stretch to say they are using them to "get by". They probably used them SOME when Augeri was fine and Perry probably did at times as well. Perhaps a little more if Augeri's voice is struggling. My other point was my belief is that is why Journey says nothing. It's a NORMAL part of a live performance. Once again. I respect your opinion and understand your feelings. I really do. I know that one day the Journey will end. I am going to enjoy the band who's music I love for as long as I can.

Cant comment on Perry using backing tapes, but i respest your view,i suppose its how much you are using them.A little help is o.k but not to much or i feel you are fooling people.Thats what seperates the guys on stage from us a talent we do not have,lipping to a tape is not talent.I see we will have to beg to differ on this sir.

[whocares]

to say the people who allegedly use tapes for vocals is not decietful, is to live under a rock and not give a damn.

I'm from a generation that STILL to this day beleives that lying or being deceitful about something you pay for, is just plain wrong. Is it illegal, unfortunately not, is it morally wrong? hell yes.

If you are going to call it live sing it live. If it's not live, then it's simply "entertainment" or a show.

[wildone]

to say the people who allegedly use tapes for vocals is not decietful, is to live under a rock and not give a damn.

I'm from a generation that STILL to this day beleives that lying or being deceitful about something you pay for, is just plain wrong. Is it illegal, unfortunately not, is it morally wrong? hell yes.

If you are going to call it live sing it live. If it's not live, then it's simply "entertainment" or a show.

See people don't you get this????This is as simple as it gets and really easy to understand...

[LadySlang9]

Isnt this just what gets on our nerves as fans of a band though - when the band just plays all the hits instead of doing the stuff their real fans want to hear?

Yes, agreed. Hearing the hits is nice, but I'd rather hear the album cuts from Def Leppard.

But, here's my issue ...

I've never heard Journey live. If they play the hits, I'll recognize those and enjoy them.

If they play album cuts, I'm not going to know the song at all. Hearing a song one time live most likely isn't going to make me a fan of that song ...

I think this makes it hard on a band when they are determining the set list ... who are you going to please ... ? The 1,000 or so die hards or the other 9,000 folks who've never heard your album cuts?

I remember vividly the Slang tour (1996). Def Leppard put several Slang cuts at the beginning and people just looked at them - except for us die hards. But, when they pulled out anything from Pyromania or Hysteria, the rest of the crowd went nuts.

I'm anxious to hear Journey ... but, honestly, I'll prefer hearing their hits ...

[jrnysc]

to say the people who allegedly use tapes for vocals is not decietful, is to live under a rock and not give a damn.

I'm from a generation that STILL to this day beleives that lying or being deceitful about something you pay for, is just plain wrong. Is it illegal, unfortunately not, is it morally wrong? hell yes.

If you are going to call it live sing it live. If it's not live, then it's simply "entertainment" or a show.

No sir, I do not live under a rock nor am I stupid. Proud to say I graduated college with a 4.0 in fact. I too believe in the truth and that deceit is wrong. I teach my children and my employees the same. I will not get into a bashing contest with anyone here. That is not me. I have more class than that. As far as I'm concerned, from the evidence I have been given, Journey plays about a 90% "live show". All the instrumentation is live, and Augeri has "help" on some of the notes his voice cannot handle at this time. That is what I see. If I were going to refuse to go to a show with some pre-recorded vocals, I would never be able to attend another live show. That is simply not my choice. I respect everyone else's choice. Being a lead singer has to be a hellish life at times. I have great admiration for Steve, but do not envy him in the least. I do not go to 10 or 15 shows a year like some of the "cronies" do. I go to one at the most. I will say however they have all been spot on except one in Baltimore a few years back. That was simply because Neal and Jon started 2 different songs at the same time. Everyone found it amusing except Neal and Jon.

[jrnysc]

Ok, I had typed a long one and lost it. I will try to trim this down with my opinion.
1. Yes, I think there is evidence to support the claims here TO SOME EXTENT. I was at work when I first listened to the tracks, and could not turn them up loud enough to really hear. At home I turned them up on a nice system and you could hear the recorded vocals kick in AT TIMES. I was expecting some Milli Vanilli shit. That is not what this was AT ALL. That why I will say the accusations are HALF TRUE.
2. Do I think Journey will respond? Probably not. If what I heard on the tracks was correct, live bands do that every day all over the United States. It is called live performance. Journey has probably done this some for years, just like everyone else. That is one reason they will probably say nothing. Another is they are not going to worry about the accusations of a couple of people. To them it's a non-issue, and perhaps even chuckled a bit over it, as long as it causes them no harm. Then it's called libel and slander, and can be prosecuted. Do I think they would? No. Unless they simply want to prove the claims false. Remember, they have been accused of lipping entire shows and songs, not using backup vocal tracks. The only other time I could see them responding would be if someone like VH1 aired it, however if what I heard is correct, I don't believe they would be interested. They would say "yeah, and?". It's part of live performance.
3. Do I think Steve is having some issues? Yes. That goes without saying. I simply wish him the best. He has done a great job, and hopefully he will get through the tour, and be able to rest his voice for a year or so. Deen covering some songs again is genius IMO. He sounds more like Perry to me than Steve does, and that takes a HUGE load off of Steve. I personally think the long shows was not a good idea last year, although fans loved it. Deen can also catch some of the high notes, which will help him rest his chords. That with the pre-recorded vocals to help at times should get him through.
4. Do I think this is the end of Journey? No, not unless they want it to be. Steve may have to take a year or so off, but I really don't see anything beyond that going on.
5. My final conclusion is that while I think there is genuine evidence of pre-recorded vocals being used, it is not illegal, deceitful, or anything else IMO. It's live performance. Once again, I think that is why they have said nothing. It's a non-issue to them. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just my opinion. Yes, I was hurt and angry at first, but once I listened for myself, I realized why they sound so good just about every time I see them, just like DL and other great live bands I have seen. I actually learned something about the business, so I am in a weird kind of way glad this happened.

I doubt the band will have a year off for Augeri as i think his voice is plain worn out,plus the bands main income is from live shows.So were do we go from here? Remember he had problems last year they are still touring.
I do accept that there is taped help at shows but if you no longer have that ability its over,your ability got you there in the first case. Led Zep, Deep Purple ,Journey in the 80's ,ac/dc manage with out tapes so why cant Journey? If you suddenly have to use tapes at a stage in your career then there is a problem! Some people can not be impressed by a singer lipping some can.If you are the ones who are not impressed and have paid money then you have a right to know so you can make the decision of attending or not.
Have you ever come away from a show and said wow what a guitarist or singer,if thats on tape that feeling is gone and the show will not mean the same to you , so you would not have attended.
If Journey are using tapes to get by,then for me its over.I respect that some people dont care or mind and thats great for you and the Band!
Just be honest with me ,miming is not a talent i care to pay for.

I understand and respect your opinion. I will tell you an interesting comment my wife made to me last evening discussing this. Please understand I have been a die hard fan for 25 years. She has been a fan that likes to see them live for about 5 or 6 years. She told me "if you think Perry NEVER used pre-recorded vocals live your sadly mistaken. I really don't see what the big deal is, and I assumed you always knew that was used in live performance" She made me feel like a dumbass, although she didn't mean it that way. My opinion was I think it's a stretch to say they are using them to "get by". They probably used them SOME when Augeri was fine and Perry probably did at times as well. Perhaps a little more if Augeri's voice is struggling. My other point was my belief is that is why Journey says nothing. It's a NORMAL part of a live performance. Once again. I respect your opinion and understand your feelings. I really do. I know that one day the Journey will end. I am going to enjoy the band who's music I love for as long as I can.

Cant comment on Perry using backing tapes, but i respest your view,i suppose its how much you are using them.A little help is o.k but not to much or i feel you are fooling people.Thats what seperates the guys on stage from us a talent we do not have,lipping to a tape is not talent.I see we will have to beg to differ on this sir.

I can respect that.

[whocares]

jrnysc, I'm not intending to bash or make it sound like I was bashing you, just so you know, I was simply responding to comments with my opinion.

People today don't seem to give a damn, and that's too bad. I rarely go see anyone live anymore, because I feel that if they haven't had a hit song or even a 4-5 decent songs on a new cd or whatever format, then I'm not going ot see the same "show" over again, not paying anyway.I've seen all my favorite artists several times, solo or with their respective (not always respected) bands. It's not the 70's 80's or even 90's anymore, when decent music is coming out, even by the dinosaurs form back then.

My point was and still is, if a band is being decietful in any way, then I have no reason to give them my money. Hell, T-shirts costing $50 a pop, when a ticket is half that price most of the time, makes it not really worth buying those either, but that's a different subject all together.

[jrnysc]

jrnysc, I'm not intending to bash or make it sound like I was bashing you, just so you know, I was simply responding to comments with my opinion.

People today don't seem to give a damn, and that's too bad. I rarely go see anyone live anymore, because I feel that if they haven't had a hit song or even a 4-5 decent songs on a new cd or whatever format, then I'm not going ot see the same "show" over again, not paying anyway.I've seen all my favorite artists several times, solo or with their respective (not always respected) bands. It's not the 70's 80's or even 90's anymore, when decent music is coming out, even by the dinosaurs form back then.

My point was and still is, if a band is being decietful in any way, then I have no reason to give them my money. Hell, T-shirts costing $50 a pop, when a ticket is half that price most of the time, makes it not really worth buying those either, but that's a different subject all together.

No problem. I also understand your point. I guess what I'm saying is that although I have been convinced there are pre-recorded vocals, I am not totally convinced they are doing anything a whole lot different than they ever have, only maybe a little more than usual. Time will certainly tell as more info. comes out.

[odessa]

Ok, I had typed a long one and lost it. I will try to trim this down with my opinion.
1. Yes, I think there is evidence to support the claims here TO SOME EXTENT. I was at work when I first listened to the tracks, and could not turn them up loud enough to really hear. At home I turned them up on a nice system and you could hear the recorded vocals kick in AT TIMES. I was expecting some Milli Vanilli shit. That is not what this was AT ALL. That why I will say the accusations are HALF TRUE.
2. Do I think Journey will respond? Probably not. If what I heard on the tracks was correct, live bands do that every day all over the United States. It is called live performance. Journey has probably done this some for years, just like everyone else. That is one reason they will probably say nothing. Another is they are not going to worry about the accusations of a couple of people. To them it's a non-issue, and perhaps even chuckled a bit over it, as long as it causes them no harm. Then it's called libel and slander, and can be prosecuted. Do I think they would? No. Unless they simply want to prove the claims false. Remember, they have been accused of lipping entire shows and songs, not using backup vocal tracks. The only other time I could see them responding would be if someone like VH1 aired it, however if what I heard is correct, I don't believe they would be interested. They would say "yeah, and?". It's part of live performance.
3. Do I think Steve is having some issues? Yes. That goes without saying. I simply wish him the best. He has done a great job, and hopefully he will get through the tour, and be able to rest his voice for a year or so. Deen covering some songs again is genius IMO. He sounds more like Perry to me than Steve does, and that takes a HUGE load off of Steve. I personally think the long shows was not a good idea last year, although fans loved it. Deen can also catch some of the high notes, which will help him rest his chords. That with the pre-recorded vocals to help at times should get him through.
4. Do I think this is the end of Journey? No, not unless they want it to be. Steve may have to take a year or so off, but I really don't see anything beyond that going on.
5. My final conclusion is that while I think there is genuine evidence of pre-recorded vocals being used, it is not illegal, deceitful, or anything else IMO. It's live performance. Once again, I think that is why they have said nothing. It's a non-issue to them. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just my opinion. Yes, I was hurt and angry at first, but once I listened for myself, I realized why they sound so good just about every time I see them, just like DL and other great live bands I have seen. I actually learned something about the business, so I am in a weird kind of way glad this happened.

I doubt the band will have a year off for Augeri as i think his voice is plain worn out,plus the bands main income is from live shows.So were do we go from here? Remember he had problems last year they are still touring.
I do accept that there is taped help at shows but if you no longer have that ability its over,your ability got you there in the first case. Led Zep, Deep Purple ,Journey in the 80's ,ac/dc manage with out tapes so why cant Journey? If you suddenly have to use tapes at a stage in your career then there is a problem! Some people can not be impressed by a singer lipping some can.If you are the ones who are not impressed and have paid money then you have a right to know so you can make the decision of attending or not.
Have you ever come away from a show and said wow what a guitarist or singer,if thats on tape that feeling is gone and the show will not mean the same to you , so you would not have attended.
If Journey are using tapes to get by,then for me its over.I respect that some people dont care or mind and thats great for you and the Band!
Just be honest with me ,miming is not a talent i care to pay for.

I understand and respect your opinion. I will tell you an interesting comment my wife made to me last evening discussing this. Please understand I have been a die hard fan for 25 years. She has been a fan that likes to see them live for about 5 or 6 years. She told me "if you think Perry NEVER used pre-recorded vocals live your sadly mistaken. I really don't see what the big deal is, and I assumed you always knew that was used in live performance" She made me feel like a dumbass, although she didn't mean it that way. My opinion was I think it's a stretch to say they are using them to "get by". They probably used them SOME when Augeri was fine and Perry probably did at times as well. Perhaps a little more if Augeri's voice is struggling. My other point was my belief is that is why Journey says nothing. It's a NORMAL part of a live performance. Once again. I respect your opinion and understand your feelings. I really do. I know that one day the Journey will end. I am going to enjoy the band who's music I love for as long as I can.

I have a few questions about your post. I hope you can clear some things up for me....

You’ve been a fan for 25 years and your wife for 5-6 years? In her expert opinion, is she claiming Perry used backing vocals ( to substitute his lead vocals) for live performances? Is she also claiming that this is what the audience heard as lead, not his actual singing voice?

When did she see Perry in concert? I thought he hasn’t preformed since ‘94 and before that was at the Bill Graham tribute (for a one off). So prior to that, she is saying that he was doing (what Augeri is being accused of by two individuals) on stage for concerts?

Does she have any witnesses that will back her story (with credentials that were on the scene)?

I am asking this because I have never heard this allegation before. I am interested in hearing your wife’s eye witness testimony and supporting evidence (of this being done by Journey during live performances with Perry at the mic).

***Please remember we are talking about substituting the “live” lead vocal tracks with pre-recorded vocal tracks and streaming the pre-recorded vocals to the audience-giving the impression that you are actually singing (to the audience) what is being heard...nothing else.

Your wife has got me intrigued with her statement, can you elaborate? I was not aware that “everybody” is doing this.

I am also not sure what Perry has to do with any of this, since he is nowhere to be seen and hasn't been on stage in years. The original controversy has not mentioned him, so I don't know why he is being mentioned now and the band has never said this...then again, they haven't said anything at all

I do agree that we all have our opinions, but opinions should never be confused with facts. Thanks for your time in clearing this up for me.

[jrnysc]

Ok, I had typed a long one and lost it. I will try to trim this down with my opinion.
1. Yes, I think there is evidence to support the claims here TO SOME EXTENT. I was at work when I first listened to the tracks, and could not turn them up loud enough to really hear. At home I turned them up on a nice system and you could hear the recorded vocals kick in AT TIMES. I was expecting some Milli Vanilli shit. That is not what this was AT ALL. That why I will say the accusations are HALF TRUE.
2. Do I think Journey will respond? Probably not. If what I heard on the tracks was correct, live bands do that every day all over the United States. It is called live performance. Journey has probably done this some for years, just like everyone else. That is one reason they will probably say nothing. Another is they are not going to worry about the accusations of a couple of people. To them it's a non-issue, and perhaps even chuckled a bit over it, as long as it causes them no harm. Then it's called libel and slander, and can be prosecuted. Do I think they would? No. Unless they simply want to prove the claims false. Remember, they have been accused of lipping entire shows and songs, not using backup vocal tracks. The only other time I could see them responding would be if someone like VH1 aired it, however if what I heard is correct, I don't believe they would be interested. They would say "yeah, and?". It's part of live performance.
3. Do I think Steve is having some issues? Yes. That goes without saying. I simply wish him the best. He has done a great job, and hopefully he will get through the tour, and be able to rest his voice for a year or so. Deen covering some songs again is genius IMO. He sounds more like Perry to me than Steve does, and that takes a HUGE load off of Steve. I personally think the long shows was not a good idea last year, although fans loved it. Deen can also catch some of the high notes, which will help him rest his chords. That with the pre-recorded vocals to help at times should get him through.
4. Do I think this is the end of Journey? No, not unless they want it to be. Steve may have to take a year or so off, but I really don't see anything beyond that going on.
5. My final conclusion is that while I think there is genuine evidence of pre-recorded vocals being used, it is not illegal, deceitful, or anything else IMO. It's live performance. Once again, I think that is why they have said nothing. It's a non-issue to them. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just my opinion. Yes, I was hurt and angry at first, but once I listened for myself, I realized why they sound so good just about every time I see them, just like DL and other great live bands I have seen. I actually learned something about the business, so I am in a weird kind of way glad this happened.

I doubt the band will have a year off for Augeri as i think his voice is plain worn out,plus the bands main income is from live shows.So were do we go from here? Remember he had problems last year they are still touring.
I do accept that there is taped help at shows but if you no longer have that ability its over,your ability got you there in the first case. Led Zep, Deep Purple ,Journey in the 80's ,ac/dc manage with out tapes so why cant Journey? If you suddenly have to use tapes at a stage in your career then there is a problem! Some people can not be impressed by a singer lipping some can.If you are the ones who are not impressed and have paid money then you have a right to know so you can make the decision of attending or not.
Have you ever come away from a show and said wow what a guitarist or singer,if thats on tape that feeling is gone and the show will not mean the same to you , so you would not have attended.
If Journey are using tapes to get by,then for me its over.I respect that some people dont care or mind and thats great for you and the Band!
Just be honest with me ,miming is not a talent i care to pay for.

I understand and respect your opinion. I will tell you an interesting comment my wife made to me last evening discussing this. Please understand I have been a die hard fan for 25 years. She has been a fan that likes to see them live for about 5 or 6 years. She told me "if you think Perry NEVER used pre-recorded vocals live your sadly mistaken. I really don't see what the big deal is, and I assumed you always knew that was used in live performance" She made me feel like a dumbass, although she didn't mean it that way. My opinion was I think it's a stretch to say they are using them to "get by". They probably used them SOME when Augeri was fine and Perry probably did at times as well. Perhaps a little more if Augeri's voice is struggling. My other point was my belief is that is why Journey says nothing. It's a NORMAL part of a live performance. Once again. I respect your opinion and understand your feelings. I really do. I know that one day the Journey will end. I am going to enjoy the band who's music I love for as long as I can.

I have a few questions about your post. I hope you can clear some things up for me....

You’ve been a fan for 25 years and your wife for 5-6 years? In her expert opinion, is she claiming Perry used backing vocals ( to substitute his lead vocals) for live performances? Is she also claiming that this is what the audience heard as lead, not his actual singing voice?

When did she see Perry in concert? I thought he hasn’t preformed since ‘94 and before that was at the Bill Graham tribute (for a one off). So prior to that, she is saying that he was doing (what Augeri is being accused of by two individuals) on stage for concerts?

Does she have any witnesses that will back her story (with credentials that were on the scene)?

I am asking this because I have never heard this allegation before. I am interested in hearing your wife’s eye witness testimony and supporting evidence (of this being done by Journey during live performances with Perry at the mic).

***Please remember we are talking about substituting the “live” lead vocals with prerecorded vocals and streaming the prerecorded vocals to the audience-giving the impression that you are actually singing what is being heard...nothing else.

Your wife has got me intrigued with her statement, can you elaborate? I was not aware that “everybody” is doing this.

I am also not sure what Perry has to do with any of this, since he is nowhere to be seen and hasn't been on stage in years. The original controversy has not mentioned him, so I don't know why he is being mentioned now and the band has never said this...then again, they haven't said anything at all

I do agree that we all have our opinions, but opinions should never be confused with facts. Thanks for your time in clearing this up for me.

Her point was simple. No, she has not seen Perry live. She was making the point that most everyone uses pre-recorded vocals and/or music to some extent when playing live. The Perry comment was based on some of what she had read here. There are several articles out (some listed on these forums) talking about pre-recorded vocals and how most major performers use them. They have used them for a long time, not just the last few years. Please don't think I am accusing anybody of anything. My degree is in Criminal Justice. I know better than to ever do that. I know the consequences that can soon follow. Once again, my conclusion from what I heard was that Augeri was singing most of what was being heard. Some of the high notes and more difficult notes were being handles by an audio feed or Deen. Not unusual according to the little bit of research I have had time to do. Hope that helps.

[odessa]

Ok, I had typed a long one and lost it. I will try to trim this down with my opinion.
1. Yes, I think there is evidence to support the claims here TO SOME EXTENT. I was at work when I first listened to the tracks, and could not turn them up loud enough to really hear. At home I turned them up on a nice system and you could hear the recorded vocals kick in AT TIMES. I was expecting some Milli Vanilli shit. That is not what this was AT ALL. That why I will say the accusations are HALF TRUE.
2. Do I think Journey will respond? Probably not. If what I heard on the tracks was correct, live bands do that every day all over the United States. It is called live performance. Journey has probably done this some for years, just like everyone else. That is one reason they will probably say nothing. Another is they are not going to worry about the accusations of a couple of people. To them it's a non-issue, and perhaps even chuckled a bit over it, as long as it causes them no harm. Then it's called libel and slander, and can be prosecuted. Do I think they would? No. Unless they simply want to prove the claims false. Remember, they have been accused of lipping entire shows and songs, not using backup vocal tracks. The only other time I could see them responding would be if someone like VH1 aired it, however if what I heard is correct, I don't believe they would be interested. They would say "yeah, and?". It's part of live performance.
3. Do I think Steve is having some issues? Yes. That goes without saying. I simply wish him the best. He has done a great job, and hopefully he will get through the tour, and be able to rest his voice for a year or so. Deen covering some songs again is genius IMO. He sounds more like Perry to me than Steve does, and that takes a HUGE load off of Steve. I personally think the long shows was not a good idea last year, although fans loved it. Deen can also catch some of the high notes, which will help him rest his chords. That with the pre-recorded vocals to help at times should get him through.
4. Do I think this is the end of Journey? No, not unless they want it to be. Steve may have to take a year or so off, but I really don't see anything beyond that going on.
5. My final conclusion is that while I think there is genuine evidence of pre-recorded vocals being used, it is not illegal, deceitful, or anything else IMO. It's live performance. Once again, I think that is why they have said nothing. It's a non-issue to them. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just my opinion. Yes, I was hurt and angry at first, but once I listened for myself, I realized why they sound so good just about every time I see them, just like DL and other great live bands I have seen. I actually learned something about the business, so I am in a weird kind of way glad this happened.

I doubt the band will have a year off for Augeri as i think his voice is plain worn out,plus the bands main income is from live shows.So were do we go from here? Remember he had problems last year they are still touring.
I do accept that there is taped help at shows but if you no longer have that ability its over,your ability got you there in the first case. Led Zep, Deep Purple ,Journey in the 80's ,ac/dc manage with out tapes so why cant Journey? If you suddenly have to use tapes at a stage in your career then there is a problem! Some people can not be impressed by a singer lipping some can.If you are the ones who are not impressed and have paid money then you have a right to know so you can make the decision of attending or not.
Have you ever come away from a show and said wow what a guitarist or singer,if thats on tape that feeling is gone and the show will not mean the same to you , so you would not have attended.
If Journey are using tapes to get by,then for me its over.I respect that some people dont care or mind and thats great for you and the Band!
Just be honest with me ,miming is not a talent i care to pay for.

I understand and respect your opinion. I will tell you an interesting comment my wife made to me last evening discussing this. Please understand I have been a die hard fan for 25 years. She has been a fan that likes to see them live for about 5 or 6 years. She told me "if you think Perry NEVER used pre-recorded vocals live your sadly mistaken. I really don't see what the big deal is, and I assumed you always knew that was used in live performance" She made me feel like a dumbass, although she didn't mean it that way. My opinion was I think it's a stretch to say they are using them to "get by". They probably used them SOME when Augeri was fine and Perry probably did at times as well. Perhaps a little more if Augeri's voice is struggling. My other point was my belief is that is why Journey says nothing. It's a NORMAL part of a live performance. Once again. I respect your opinion and understand your feelings. I really do. I know that one day the Journey will end. I am going to enjoy the band who's music I love for as long as I can.

I have a few questions about your post. I hope you can clear some things up for me....

You’ve been a fan for 25 years and your wife for 5-6 years? In her expert opinion, is she claiming Perry used backing vocals ( to substitute his lead vocals) for live performances? Is she also claiming that this is what the audience heard as lead, not his actual singing voice?

When did she see Perry in concert? I thought he hasn’t preformed since ‘94 and before that was at the Bill Graham tribute (for a one off). So prior to that, she is saying that he was doing (what Augeri is being accused of by two individuals) on stage for concerts?

Does she have any witnesses that will back her story (with credentials that were on the scene)?

I am asking this because I have never heard this allegation before. I am interested in hearing your wife’s eye witness testimony and supporting evidence (of this being done by Journey during live performances with Perry at the mic).

***Please remember we are talking about substituting the “live” lead vocals with prerecorded vocals and streaming the prerecorded vocals to the audience-giving the impression that you are actually singing what is being heard...nothing else.

Your wife has got me intrigued with her statement, can you elaborate? I was not aware that “everybody” is doing this.

I am also not sure what Perry has to do with any of this, since he is nowhere to be seen and hasn't been on stage in years. The original controversy has not mentioned him, so I don't know why he is being mentioned now and the band has never said this...then again, they haven't said anything at all

I do agree that we all have our opinions, but opinions should never be confused with facts. Thanks for your time in clearing this up for me.

Her point was simple. No, she has not seen Perry live. She was making the point that most everyone uses pre-recorded vocals and/or music to some extent when playing live. The Perry comment was based on some of what she had read here. There are several articles out (some listed on these forums) talking about pre-recorded vocals and how most major performers use them. They have used them for a long time, not just the last few years. Please don't think I am accusing anybody of anything. My degree is in Criminal Justice. I know better than to ever do that. I know the consequences that can soon follow. Once again, my conclusion from what I heard was that Augeri was singing most of what was being heard. Some of the high notes and more difficult notes were being handles by an audio feed or Deen. Not unusual according to the little bit of research I have had time to do. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the quick response.

I thought she was saying (with factual evidence) that Perry used the pre-recorded vocals (as a substitute for lead) as it has been alleged Augeri has done. So then, she is not saying (with any facts) that Perry did do this too. There really is no evidence of that... it is merely hearsay and speculation on her part...not fact.

Thank you. I just wanted to get that matter cleared ASAP for those reading. Since you do practice, you must understand my specific reasons for asking for such clarification from you...I am sure.

[jrnysc]

Ok, I had typed a long one and lost it. I will try to trim this down with my opinion.
1. Yes, I think there is evidence to support the claims here TO SOME EXTENT. I was at work when I first listened to the tracks, and could not turn them up loud enough to really hear. At home I turned them up on a nice system and you could hear the recorded vocals kick in AT TIMES. I was expecting some Milli Vanilli shit. That is not what this was AT ALL. That why I will say the accusations are HALF TRUE.
2. Do I think Journey will respond? Probably not. If what I heard on the tracks was correct, live bands do that every day all over the United States. It is called live performance. Journey has probably done this some for years, just like everyone else. That is one reason they will probably say nothing. Another is they are not going to worry about the accusations of a couple of people. To them it's a non-issue, and perhaps even chuckled a bit over it, as long as it causes them no harm. Then it's called libel and slander, and can be prosecuted. Do I think they would? No. Unless they simply want to prove the claims false. Remember, they have been accused of lipping entire shows and songs, not using backup vocal tracks. The only other time I could see them responding would be if someone like VH1 aired it, however if what I heard is correct, I don't believe they would be interested. They would say "yeah, and?". It's part of live performance.
3. Do I think Steve is having some issues? Yes. That goes without saying. I simply wish him the best. He has done a great job, and hopefully he will get through the tour, and be able to rest his voice for a year or so. Deen covering some songs again is genius IMO. He sounds more like Perry to me than Steve does, and that takes a HUGE load off of Steve. I personally think the long shows was not a good idea last year, although fans loved it. Deen can also catch some of the high notes, which will help him rest his chords. That with the pre-recorded vocals to help at times should get him through.
4. Do I think this is the end of Journey? No, not unless they want it to be. Steve may have to take a year or so off, but I really don't see anything beyond that going on.
5. My final conclusion is that while I think there is genuine evidence of pre-recorded vocals being used, it is not illegal, deceitful, or anything else IMO. It's live performance. Once again, I think that is why they have said nothing. It's a non-issue to them. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong, this is just my opinion. Yes, I was hurt and angry at first, but once I listened for myself, I realized why they sound so good just about every time I see them, just like DL and other great live bands I have seen. I actually learned something about the business, so I am in a weird kind of way glad this happened.

I doubt the band will have a year off for Augeri as i think his voice is plain worn out,plus the bands main income is from live shows.So were do we go from here? Remember he had problems last year they are still touring.
I do accept that there is taped help at shows but if you no longer have that ability its over,your ability got you there in the first case. Led Zep, Deep Purple ,Journey in the 80's ,ac/dc manage with out tapes so why cant Journey? If you suddenly have to use tapes at a stage in your career then there is a problem! Some people can not be impressed by a singer lipping some can.If you are the ones who are not impressed and have paid money then you have a right to know so you can make the decision of attending or not.
Have you ever come away from a show and said wow what a guitarist or singer,if thats on tape that feeling is gone and the show will not mean the same to you , so you would not have attended.
If Journey are using tapes to get by,then for me its over.I respect that some people dont care or mind and thats great for you and the Band!
Just be honest with me ,miming is not a talent i care to pay for.

I understand and respect your opinion. I will tell you an interesting comment my wife made to me last evening discussing this. Please understand I have been a die hard fan for 25 years. She has been a fan that likes to see them live for about 5 or 6 years. She told me "if you think Perry NEVER used pre-recorded vocals live your sadly mistaken. I really don't see what the big deal is, and I assumed you always knew that was used in live performance" She made me feel like a dumbass, although she didn't mean it that way. My opinion was I think it's a stretch to say they are using them to "get by". They probably used them SOME when Augeri was fine and Perry probably did at times as well. Perhaps a little more if Augeri's voice is struggling. My other point was my belief is that is why Journey says nothing. It's a NORMAL part of a live performance. Once again. I respect your opinion and understand your feelings. I really do. I know that one day the Journey will end. I am going to enjoy the band who's music I love for as long as I can.

I have a few questions about your post. I hope you can clear some things up for me....

You’ve been a fan for 25 years and your wife for 5-6 years? In her expert opinion, is she claiming Perry used backing vocals ( to substitute his lead vocals) for live performances? Is she also claiming that this is what the audience heard as lead, not his actual singing voice?

When did she see Perry in concert? I thought he hasn’t preformed since ‘94 and before that was at the Bill Graham tribute (for a one off). So prior to that, she is saying that he was doing (what Augeri is being accused of by two individuals) on stage for concerts?

Does she have any witnesses that will back her story (with credentials that were on the scene)?

I am asking this because I have never heard this allegation before. I am interested in hearing your wife’s eye witness testimony and supporting evidence (of this being done by Journey during live performances with Perry at the mic).

***Please remember we are talking about substituting the “live” lead vocals with prerecorded vocals and streaming the prerecorded vocals to the audience-giving the impression that you are actually singing what is being heard...nothing else.

Your wife has got me intrigued with her statement, can you elaborate? I was not aware that “everybody” is doing this.

I am also not sure what Perry has to do with any of this, since he is nowhere to be seen and hasn't been on stage in years. The original controversy has not mentioned him, so I don't know why he is being mentioned now and the band has never said this...then again, they haven't said anything at all

I do agree that we all have our opinions, but opinions should never be confused with facts. Thanks for your time in clearing this up for me.

Her point was simple. No, she has not seen Perry live. She was making the point that most everyone uses pre-recorded vocals and/or music to some extent when playing live. The Perry comment was based on some of what she had read here. There are several articles out (some listed on these forums) talking about pre-recorded vocals and how most major performers use them. They have used them for a long time, not just the last few years. Please don't think I am accusing anybody of anything. My degree is in Criminal Justice. I know better than to ever do that. I know the consequences that can soon follow. Once again, my conclusion from what I heard was that Augeri was singing most of what was being heard. Some of the high notes and more difficult notes were being handles by an audio feed or Deen. Not unusual according to the little bit of research I have had time to do. Hope that helps.

Thanks for the quick response.

I thought she was saying (with factual evidence) that Perry used the pre-recorded vocals (as a substitute for lead) as it has been alleged Augeri has done. So then, she is not saying (with any facts) that Perry did do this too. There really is no evidence of that... it is merely hearsay and speculation on her part...not fact.

No. I should have stated that more clearly. I apologize. No hard evidence at all. She was simply pointing out that with the difficulty of some of Journey's vocals, even Perry would probably have difficulty doing that every single night, and may need assistance at times as well. May I ask where you stand on all of this at this time? Thanks Mark

Thank you. I just wanted to get that matter cleared ASAP for those reading. Since you do practice, you must understand my specific reasons for asking for such clarification from you...I am sure.