To the Hard Core Augeri Supporters

by **Memorex** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:41 am

This is to Augeri1 and Survivor/Journey and all the other hard-core Augeri fans – the ones who have decided not to give creed to any of the rumors, no matter what the evidence.

Regardless of how you feel about anything, Deano and Jeremy and others have presented very strong evidence supporting their claims. They have taken the time to show each of us how they came to their findings.

What I would like is for you guys to go through the same steps to prove to me and others that the claims are false. Now, your initial reaction might be “I don’t have to address such stupid claims!” I don’t respect that kind of reply at all. I’d like to see a well-thought post by any of you that can stand up to Deano’s and Jeremy’s.

If you cannot offer such proof, then you should just stick to calling Deano any name you except liar. Hate him all you want, but if you have no proof otherwise please stop trying to counter it. Steve Augeri does not need blind followers helping him here or at BT. He needs someone who can clearly prove his case (not that he has stated a case).

[Comments removed by me out of respect to Craig's Family]

Anyway, back to my post – I’m asking in all sincerity for someone to intelligently prove Deano wrong.

by **whocares** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:22 am

nice try, but I don't see it happening. Unless the band says it is happening, they will tell you it they don't need proof. Even then they will not want to beleive it, by their own admission.

by **WalrusOct9** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:23 am

basically that would involve someone taking a 2006 recording and synching it up to Vegas or Generations and showing that the lead vocals are different. (On something besides "Faithfully," please...Deen or the audience singing doesn't count as "different")

I doubt that's going to happen, however.

by **Red13JoePa** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:11 am

Who gives a damn? Both sides think what they think. Why do the tapegaters feel the need to try to cram the view down everybody's throat?
If it's going to be exposed, then so be it.

Why the incessant calls to see the light or else?

by **WalrusOct9** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:18 am

Who gives a damn? Both sides think what they think. Why do the tapegaters feel the need to try to cram the view down everybody's throat?
If it's going to be exposed, then so be it.

It has been exposed. Those in denial just refuse to listen, apparently. And since much time has been spent assembling evidence, both aural and visual, it's not unreasonable to ask a naysayer to do the same if he's so convinced that Augeri has never, ever lip synched his lead vocals.

by **Liz22562** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:28 am

I'm more worried about Long Duck Dong in North Korea pushing a button than I am about this.

So because I don't take a specific side, I have to read thread after thread after thread about tape gate and watch interesting threads get hijacked.

Tell you what, I'll hug my kids and say a prayer tomorrow morning if I wake up. You can rehash Journey and tapegate all you want.

Peace to all.

by **Red13JoePa** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:31 am

WalrusOct9 wrote:
Who gives a damn? Both sides think what they think. Why do the tapegaters feel the need to try to cram the view down everybody's throat?
If it's going to be exposed, then so be it.

It has been exposed. Those in denial just refuse to listen, apparently. And since much time has been spent assembling evidence, both aural and visual,

You're joking, right? Assembled off audience recorded boots? That is this smoking gun that we all are under mandate to refute or be unmasked as koolaid guzzling cheerleaders? No thanks, no time, no means until #1 soundboards become available and #2 I feel like it. Til then I'll wait and see what happens and continue to believe in the band and afford them the benefit of the doubt.

by **Eric** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:31 am

I know that the 2 shows I saw were not using tape vocals the majority of the time. Too many things were different, screwed up or improved.

I need bootlegs of the SPAC show and Darien show..then I'll tell you if the bootleg is actually of that show.

All I've heard are the same bootlegs over and over again.

by **yak** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 6:59 am

Liz22562 wrote:I'm more worried about Long Duck Dong in North Korea pushing a button than I am about this.

Ain't that the truth? Living life in front of a computer screen dulls your perspective.

by **WalrusOct9** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:12 am

yak wrote:
Liz22562 wrote:I'm more worried about Long Duck Dong in North Korea pushing a button than I am about this.

Ain't that the truth? Living life in front of a computer screen dulls your perspective.

I don't have a choice...they pay me to work in front of a computer. It's not really my first choice of things to do but i have to pay rent.

You're joking, right? Assembled off audience recorded boots?

A good audience recording is no worse than a soundboard. There are several good audience recordings of Journey over the years (plenty more bad ones, to be sure...but some, including Manchester, are quite good). Not to mention that most audiences aren't exactly singing along to the new songs, meaning that you really don't need a soundboard to compare vocal tracks on something like "Faith In The Heartland." The idea of "oh, it's not a crystal-clear soundboard recording, it must suck" is silly in this age of high quality small microphones and Walkman-sized hard disk or DAT recorders.

by **FormerJrnyFan** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 7:23 am

yak wrote:
Liz22562 wrote:I'm more worried about Long Duck Dong in North Korea pushing a button than I am about this.

Ain't that the truth? Living life in front of a computer screen dulls your perspective.

Damn, I'm dull :cry:

by **Mandi** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:07 am

I am one of those hard core Augeri supporters, and I don't owe you the time of day. I will not defend my opinion that all of this is nonsense, not to mention a huge waste of time. If you don't like the fact that Steve Augeri has a huge following of loyal fans, that's your problem, not mine.
If you think the shows are taped, lipped, or whatever, then you could consider not going to the concert. I know plenty of people who will love to move up to the front. Oh, and by the way, even if you think you have the so-called "proof", what do you think you are going to get for it? There aren't enough people who think this is worth their time to worry about. I have a life away from the computer, and away from Journey. Too bad more of you don't.

Mandi

by **Memorex** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:41 am

Mandi - This was the response I expected. You respond to me by saying you don't have to respond. Brilliant.

All I am asking is that if you don't want to take the time that Deano and Jeremy have and you don't care about it as much as they seem to, then don't call them wrong. You are not believing it because you do not want to. That was kind of my point.

I do not expect the blind to actually sit down and do anything about it. I'm just asking that if you are going to be lazy about it, you respect those that aren't. Too much to ask????

Some of us don't consider this nonsense or a waste of time. If you think serious allegations against your man are nonsense, you should be ashamed of yourself for call yourself a fan.

I stopped going to Journey shows many years ago. I was bored in the middle of one and walked out before it was over. They just don;t do anything for me now. But I do find it troubling that their legacy is being seriously tarnished now.

I want nothing but a statement by the band. That is not too much to ask.

by **barneyrubble** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:08 am

Frankly no-one has any hard evidence either way. I said in another post that I was in the front few rows for all 3 UK shows and Augeri wasn't syncing then. He didn't sing great all the time either, the backing vocals, Deen and the synced BV's help out a huge amount when Steve Augeri doesn't hit the button. I know 100% that sequenced BV's and keys are used. I won't elaborate.

To labour on with the idea that the lead vocal is synced is being ignorant of popular music and the production methods used to make it happen in 2006 (probably from about 1990 onwards). You couldn't just sync a few sections of a song, you'd have to do it all or not at all and it would be glaringly obvious to anyone in the crowd who has ever performed and has any kind of musical ear exactly what is going on.

People ask for proof that it isn't happening as a counter. That ain't going to happen.

David Blaine can't live without food for 40 days. There were no aliens at Roswell. If you build it, they won't come! Lee Harvey Oswald probably was the lone gunman. Nikki Sixx wasn't replace by Frank Ferrano. Buckethead isn't Paul Gilbert (or Slash), Elvis isn't alive and Gene Simmons does not have a full head of his own thick black hair.......no self respecting band, singer, magician, broadway producer or theme park ride is going to turn the house lights up, give you a tour around the backstage area and show you the tricks of the trade because you should just enjoy the show for what it is..... entertainment.

by **Memorex** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 9:17 am

I don't want a backstage tour, just a statement.

Barney - I can respect your post, even if I don;t agree with all of it. So as a thinking man, what would be your opinion as to why no statement has been issued? Seems silly not to.

I saw Iron Maiden in 1985 and Bruce Dickenson went off in the middle of a show about people that accused them of heavy drug use. He told those people to fuck off. Helped to crush the rumors. If I was Augeri, and I wasn't lipping, I'd do the same thing. And I felt Bruce had a lot of class in doing that.

by **Journey/Survivor** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:42 am

Memorex wrote:This is to Augeri1 and Survivor/Journey and all the other hard-core Augeri fans – the ones who have decided not to give creed to any of the rumors, no matter what the evidence.

Regardless of how you feel about anything, Deano and Jeremy and others have presented very strong evidence supporting their claims. They have taken the time to show each of us how they came to their findings.

What I would like is for you guys to go through the same steps to prove to me and others that the claims are false. Now, your initial reaction might be “I don’t have to address such stupid claims!” I don’t respect that kind of reply at all. I’d like to see a well-thought post by any of you that can stand up to Deano’s and Jeremy’s.

If you cannot offer such proof, then you should just stick to calling Deano any name you except liar. Hate him all you want, but if you have no proof otherwise please stop trying to counter it. Steve Augeri does not need blind followers helping him here or at BT. He needs someone who can clearly prove his case (not that he has stated a case).

Pit – I’d address this to you as well, but you are the biggest piece of shit asshole I have ever come across on the internet. Whatever you feel about Deano, the guy is head and shoulders about you in the class department. You have really embarrassed yourself here. You have only done Journey harm by trying to support them. I’m ashamed to be a fan of the same band as you. You really do need to fuck off, you know?

Anyway, back to my post – I’m asking in all sincerity for someone to intelligently prove Deano wrong.

First of all I need to correct something that you have considered me to be, and that is a "Hard-core Augeri fan."

I have said on several occasions that Steve Perry is my second favorite singer of all time and that he is an extremely close second to Jimi Jamison on my list of favorites.

If I had to rank Steve Augeri he would probably be somewhere between 6 and 9 or so.

I am a fan of Steve Augeri and obviously I like his singing or else I wouldn't say that I am a fan. But I am definitely not what you would call a "Hard-core Augeri fan."

I remember that when it was first announced that Journey had a new singer I was very dissapointed because I am such a huge Steve Perry fan. But I also realized that it was very clear that Steve Perry just can't get along with the rest of Journey, and that without a new singer there wouldn't be any more Journey.

I've been to Journey concerts where Augeri was flawless, I've been to concerts where he strugled vocaly. But it has been very clear that he was always singing! And on a few occasions I have been right up against the stage when they have played at a county fair or something like that. I would be litterally 2 to 3 feet away from him when he was standing in the middle of the stage which was the majority of the show.

Neal Schon has always been my favorite member of Journey based on talent, and probably Jonathan Cain has been my favorite as far as how I view them as a human being.

I can not at this time anyway prove that Steve Augeri is not lip-syncing, but Deano has NOT even come close to proving that they do either!

I can boldly make one statement and Deano can boldly make the opposite statement, but at this time neither one of us can prove the other one wrong.

As I said to Deano in another post on another thread, if he would stop insisting that Augeri has been lip-syncing and he would start saying that he feels that he was/is then maybe I and others would take him more seriously.

I tend to root for the underdog. I respect people who stand up against bullys and fight for what they believe in. But nothing about the way that Deano has handled this situation tells me that he is sincere about only wanting people to know "the truth" about "what the band have been doing."

Everything about the way Deano and his cohorts have handled this SCREAMS OUT AGENDA!

I don't think it could be any clearer that Deano and MOST of the people who are supporting him are doing so because they either hate Journey or they at least hate Steve Augeri/love Steve Perry.

I would love to see Steve Perry back in Journey sometime again! But not because a bunch of bullys spread BS rumors about Augeri lip-syncing!

by **A Fire Inside** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 12:10 pm

Like the Beatles said, LET IT BE!

If the band comes out and admits this, then you can laugh at the people with their tails between their legs. Why do you need refuting evidence? That's like asking someone to prove why they believe in God. They just BELIEVE AUGERI DOESN'T MIME! That's cool with me, whatever anyone wants to think is cool. Just don't pile it on the rest of us as the One Truth.

by **Red13JoePa** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 1:28 pm

Er, AFI: And what "evidence" need be refuted? Boots? It's been widely demanded by the tapegaters that we refute their airtight, inarguable "evidence" with evidence of our own. What the hell should we have to provide other than the exact same shit and say truthfully, "sorry Steve Augeri does not sound identically enough in these recordings for us to stop liking his work and wanting him to be and rooting for him as the lead singer, let alone accuse him of lip synching concerts, legs of tours, whole tours and entire careers" :?:

by **JrnySuxBalls** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:07 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:It's been widely demanded by the tapegaters that we refute their airtight, inarguable "evidence" with evidence of our own.

Just go find 2 2006 performance recordings, sync 'em up, and demonstrate they're sung live from
2 different nights. The lead vocals should not line up perfectly with each other.

It's not that hard. Go ahead prove us wrong.

by **yak** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:19 pm

Damn, I'm dull

I don't have a choice...they pay me to work in front of a computer. It's not really my first choice of things to do but i have to pay rent.

Most people use a computer nowadays. I was referring to using it 24/7. Sorry I didn't explain it more clearly.

by **Rockindeano** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:28 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:Er, AFI: And what "evidence" need be refuted? Boots? It's been widely demanded by the tapegaters that we refute their airtight, inarguable "evidence" with evidence of our own. What the hell should we have to provide other than the exact same shit and say truthfully, "sorry Steve Augeri does not sound identically enough in these recordings for us to stop liking his work and wanting him to be and rooting for him as the lead singer, let alone accuse him of lip synching concerts, legs of tours, whole tours and entire careers"

If their careers are ended now, it's nobody's fault but their own. They brought this all on themselves. I lied on the radio this morning. Originally, I said I didn't want that, but they pissed me off today, after I found out some more detail that will blow you all away.

13, pull your head out of your ass.

You and your "boots." I have 7 boots. All 7 are identical. Then I have 4 Europe boots from last week..all identical to the 7 originally. Do you NOT think that if I have 7 SPORADIC boots, and ALL are the same, does that not make any sense? The chances are pretty fucking good they were ALL the same. If He can't sing the first night, the second night, the 3rd and the fourth, why does he automatically sing like Augeri 2001 (Studio I might add), by the 5th concert all the way up to Europe, and then after 2 weeks rest, in Camden, after all this has been brought up, and they know they are being watched, he sounds like ass when he sings live for a few songs?

Answer that? Please, answer, I am dying to know your spin.

Dude, Ilike you, but your loyalty is no worse than Dan Quayle to George Bush 41. Blinding.

by **Rockindeano** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:32 pm

JDouglee wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:It's been widely demanded by the tapegaters that we refute their airtight, inarguable "evidence" with evidence of our own.

Just go find 2 2006 performance recordings, sync 'em up, and demonstrate they're sung live from
2 different nights. The lead vocals should not line up perfectly with each other.

It's not that hard. Go ahead prove us wrong.

You can in only ONE instance..

The February show in Oakland(he was live, unfortunately) he was so bad I had to turn it off after the 2nd song. On the tour, the first four or so are live, a mistake....I would have gone to tape the first show....

I have always said I would forgive them if they would play live now.....but nooooo, they blew me off, and went back to tape....so now they can shit themselves all they want.

Way to ruin a great legacy.

by **JrnySuxBalls** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:38 pm

Rockn'deano wrote:
JDouglee wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:It's been widely demanded by the tapegaters that we refute their airtight, inarguable "evidence" with evidence of our own.

Just go find 2 2006 performance recordings, sync 'em up, and demonstrate they're sung live from
2 different nights. The lead vocals should not line up perfectly with each other.

It's not that hard. Go ahead prove us wrong.

You can in only ONE instance..

The February show in Oakland

I stand corrected. I suppose they could cheat and use a 2004 show, but the arrangements might
be different.

by **A Fire Inside** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:35 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:Er, AFI: And what "evidence" need be refuted? Boots? It's been widely demanded by the tapegaters that we refute their airtight, inarguable "evidence" with evidence of our own. What the hell should we have to provide other than the exact same shit and say truthfully, "sorry Steve Augeri does not sound identically enough in these recordings for us to stop liking his work and wanting him to be and rooting for him as the lead singer, let alone accuse him of lip synching concerts, legs of tours, whole tours and entire careers"

Yeah, I know, that's why I asked them what they needed opposing evidence for.

by **A Fire Inside** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 4:38 pm

JDouglee wrote:Just go find 2 2006 performance recordings, sync 'em up, and demonstrate they're sung live from
2 different nights. The lead vocals should not line up perfectly with each other.

It's not that hard. Go ahead prove us wrong.

The thing is, some of us don't WANT to prove you wrong. We just do not let the band run our lives enough to get carried away on it. It seems to me that there are some people on this board (including me) who acknowledge that there is at least SOME vocal help going on, but we have no evidence to prove you wrong and it's just really not worth our time.

JMHO, as they say.

by **JrnySuxBalls** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 5:08 pm

The truth was important enough to me to spend the 5 minutes it took to sync up 2
versions of the same song just to see for myself.

Many spend alot of time arguing the point, but can't be bothered to investigate what's really going on
for themselves?

by **Red13JoePa** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:21 pm

A Fire Inside wrote:
JDouglee wrote:Just go find 2 2006 performance recordings, sync 'em up, and demonstrate they're sung live from
2 different nights. The lead vocals should not line up perfectly with each other.

It's not that hard. Go ahead prove us wrong.

The thing is, some of us don't WANT to prove you wrong. We just do not let the band run our lives enough to get carried away on it. It seems to me that there are some people on this board (including me) who acknowledge that there is at least SOME vocal help going on, but we have no evidence to prove you wrong and it's just really not worth our time.

JMHO, as they say.

"Proven wrong?"
Jesus, they haven't even been proven right yet.

by **wildone** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:25 pm

Mandi wrote:I am one of those hard core Augeri supporters, and I don't owe you the time of day. I will not defend my opinion that all of this is nonsense, not to mention a huge waste of time. If you don't like the fact that Steve Augeri has a huge following of loyal fans, that's your problem, not mine.
If you think the shows are taped, lipped, or whatever, then you could consider not going to the concert. I know plenty of people who will love to move up to the front. Oh, and by the way, even if you think you have the so-called "proof", what do you think you are going to get for it? There aren't enough people who think this is worth their time to worry about. I have a life away from the computer, and away from Journey. Too bad more of you don't.

Mandi

and yet you still found the time to post this mess ...wow...

by **JrnySuxBalls** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:31 pm

Red13JoePa wrote:
"Proven wrong?"
Jesus, they haven't even been proven right yet.

Not to those in denial, nope.

by **cetera** » Tue Jun 27, 2006 11:39 pm

JDouglee wrote:
Red13JoePa wrote:
"Proven wrong?"
Jesus, they haven't even been proven right yet.

Not to those in denial, nope.

And not to those who aren't happy with second rate 'proof' either....

MR

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