MR

It seems that there are some on either side of this who are just as convinced as the other that they are right. Where do you stand? Please vote and then also post your opinion in the thread. PLEASE POST ONLY ONCE TO VOICE YOUR OPINION AND RESPECT MY WISH TO KEEP PERSONAL ATTACKS OUT OF IT, whether they be against the members of Journey or against other forum users.


I'm not sure what to believe at this point. Initially, I kinda believed it may have happened considering Augeri's vocal problems on the tour last year. At this point, I'm not sure. I believe Stu and others have a point that it's hard to know for sure when all you have to go on are typically poor-quality MP3 bootleg recordings. On the other hands, some of the arguments on the other side seem compelling as well.

I've listened with an open mind, but I just don't hear it.

When Andrew ran his report I thought it was clear that he said there is no lip synching.

I think it's true that the band has been using recorded tracks to cover for Augeri's obvious vocal problems. I don't think it's technically lip synching though. I don't know what the correct term for it is. I think using the term lip synching has clouded the issue. Like Dave(I think it was Dave)said, I'm sure the band likes us using that term because they can truthfully say they haven't been doing that. Whatever they call it, it's still not ethical to do surrepticiously IMO.

I think overstating the allegations has also muddied the water somewhat. Yes, I think they've been doing this since the beginning of last years tour, but I don't think there is enough information, at least that I've seen, to say they've done it in every show or on every song in a show. From the reviews of the Scranton show however, I'd have to say it's a pretty safe bet that between the drummer and the tapes Augeri has had a lot of help in most shows and on most songs.

I also think the band could have saved themselves and their fans a lot of grief by issuing a statement saying Augeri was having some problems but they owed the fans a tour so they were going to augment the vocals.

ohsherrie wrote:I think it's true that the band has been using recorded tracks to cover for Augeri's obvious vocal problems. I don't think it's technically lip synching though. I don't know what the correct term for it is. I think using the term lip synching has clouded the issue. Like Dave(I think it was Dave)said, I'm sure the band likes us using that term because they can truthfully say they haven't been doing that. Whatever they call it, it's still not ethical to do surrepticiously IMO.

I think overstating the allegations has also muddied the water somewhat. Yes, I think they've been doing this since the beginning of last years tour, but I don't think there is enough information, at least that I've seen, to say they've done it in every show or on every song in a show. From the reviews of the Scranton show however, I'd have to say it's a pretty safe bet that between the drummer and the tapes Augeri has had a lot of help in most shows and on most songs.

I also think the band could have saved themselves and their fans a lot of grief by issuing a statement saying Augeri was having some problems but they owed the fans a tour so they were going to augment the vocals.

and if it was said by the group like that then i'd never would've said another word on the subject...it's just well they haven't so here i am and others to ...alot of us would go away if they just open there mouth and say something real!!!

The technical term for singing into a microphone off key or whatever, and having much better vocals coming out of the speakers would be scamming.

When Andrew ran his report I thought it was clear that he said there is no lip synching.

What report is this?

Yes I DO believe the alligations.

Les wrote:

When Andrew ran his report I thought it was clear that he said there is no lip synching.

What report is this?

What is this now?

Still don't really believe it.

I have listened to all the materials presented over the weeks and I’ve listened carefully because I wanted to make sure that I am not making a hasty decision.
I don't understand what is the problem with the tracks being bootlegged mp3s?
Augeri’s voice sounds clear enough to be easily compared to the Vegas material which is used during the concerts .

I noticed that a lot of people(the non-believers) ask (the believers) "How can you tell it's lip-synch?"
That is so hard to answer! I say it IS. First off,I'd say it seriously depends on ones hearing.
I was thinking that maybe the natural hearing aptitudes that I have helped me to take notice of all the voice inflections…
The comparison between the songs(vocal lines)was easy.
The best thing is that,personally,while listening I can tune out any sounds that do not interest me and isolate the sounds that I want to hear.
I don't know how I do that,I can't explain;it's somekind of an ability.Made it easy for me to hear the vocal stuff in clear.

So,yes, maybe some of you really don’t hear it.There’s nothing wrong with that,but just as I accept that one doesn’t hear what I hear,
so should the non-believers accept that some of us can hear it.

Another thing that was constantly brought up was the fact that we who sustain the lip-synching allegations are accused to be "cult" followers,or "Team Dean members" an so forth.
For the last time….This has nothing to do with Dean.He is only the messenger,the person who brough the whole thing into public attention. He didn’t force any of us to believe this.
I came to the lip-syching conclusion by myself,meaning that I wasn't influenced by Dean's opinions,nor anyone else's on this board.
More so,I requested some of my personal friends’ opinions (musicians and sound engineers) on this, only after I draw my own conclusions.
The reason why I asked them was to make sure that I will have the opinions of people who work in the bussiness.
They all have confirmed my own findings.

Also,my judgement was based on the fact that my line of work is related to studios,music,recordings and concerts for over 15 years.
I know very well how a forgery of this kind is put together and I have witnessed the whole procedure myself.

One more thing.I trust Svante Pettersson’s professionalism and objectivity, as well as the findings and opinions of the trained musicians on this board.

No matter on which side of the fence we are,we had our say.

Now the ball is in Journey’s court.

Shania wrote:
Also,my judgement was based on the fact that my line of work is related to studios,music,recordings and concerts for over 15 years.

Me as well. IMO in today's society people in general don't really know how to "listen hard" to
something. Folks that use their ears for a living can easily hear it. Those not accustomed
to listening for detail, or to musical phrases & nuance can miss what's going on.

Most people these days go "oh that's a good song, when's dinner?" Add to that the denial
factor and you're gonna need the 60 Minutes crew to go in there with hidden cameras to
prove the lip syncing.

The most important part is some people know, have been vocal about it, and the band is
trying to go live. They probably will never admit guilt, but actions speak louder than words
as we all know. But going "live" with a singer not up to the task may ruin their reputation
for a long time.

in many people's eyes, it already has.

People who don't listen closely are mostly casual fans of music. People who do it as their business and who are just audiophiles can spot things those other people can't. But why believe people who aren't THE BAND?

I have a very trained ear as well, though sadly some of it is gone due to my age and other activites in my past.

I wanted a response, we didn't get it and we most likely won't get it. It's sad that the name has been raked through the hot burning embers, but it's worse that the band and management are too arrogant to do what they once did so well, communicate with the fans.

NWMT

Red13JoePa wrote:When Andrew ran his report I thought it was clear that he said there is no lip synching.

I did not say that at all. I did say that the allegations were being mis-reported as lip-syncing....rather they are that Steve sings (yes), but what goes into the mike isn't always what is being heard....the vocals being heard by the audience are being played back from tape.

ace wrote:NWMT

Ace, if this is all you have to offer, perhaps take this week off from posting. See you back here next week, where I'm sure your perspective will be different.

To your knowledge how much of the time?

JDouglee wrote:

Les wrote:

When Andrew ran his report I thought it was clear that he said there is no lip synching.

What report is this?

What is this now?

Right here:

There has been a very strong demand for me to address the allegations currently being aired about Journey and the possible use of vocals tapes during live performances.
Regrettably the recent talk of such practices started here on my Journey message board, but since that time, the issue has taken on a much greater life of its own.
I am a reluctant participant in this – my site drawn into this based on my long history with the band and my ardent support of this line-up, which has been in place since 1998.
So many not remember or even know, but I was responsible for breaking the news worldwide that Steve Perry had left the band.

Since that point I have been a big supporter of the guys, but some eight years later we are in the middle of another situation and people are wondering why I have not addressed it up to this point.
It is alleged that the lead vocals of frontman Steve Augeri are not always live when the guys perform and furthermore, it is questioned just what portion of each show features backing tapes.
The allegations have been misreported somewhat, with the term lip-syncing used in most cases. What needs to be clarified is the fact that the allegation is that while Steve has been singing, the band have been using backing tapes to enhance or cover-up his on stage performance.

The chatter moved from my message boards to a dedicated Blog journal and from there it seems to have taken on a life of its own, including fresh comments from a well known Swedish sound engineer in regards to the band's Sweden Rock Festival performance.

This issue is beginning to hurt the band and their reputation. Regardless of who or how it started, there is now a big enough question mark hanging over the band and it has to be addressed. And ASAP. Journey begin an extensive U.S. tour with Def Leppard in New Jersey on Friday.

What has delayed my commenting on this issue the lack of any statement from the band or management. That is their call. But as with previous Journey reports, I have always had the benefit of a statement or quote from someone in the Journey camp and that is what I have been holding out for. At this stage I have contacted management and all members of the band several times, and am confident I will soon receive some official word to put this all to rest.

For the good of the band this needs to be addressed now.
Someone needs to set up a situation where the band can move on from this and a situation where fans and supporters can return to enjoying their favourite artist, rather than tearing each other apart on Internet message boards.

Andrew wrote:

JDouglee wrote:

Les wrote:

When Andrew ran his report I thought it was clear that he said there is no lip synching.

What report is this?

What is this now?

Right here:

There has been a very strong demand for me to address the allegations currently being aired about Journey and the possible use of vocals tapes during live performances.
Regrettably the recent talk of such practices started here on my Journey message board, but since that time, the issue has taken on a much greater life of its own.
I am a reluctant participant in this – my site drawn into this based on my long history with the band and my ardent support of this line-up, which has been in place since 1998.
So many not remember or even know, but I was responsible for breaking the news worldwide that Steve Perry had left the band.

Since that point I have been a big supporter of the guys, but some eight years later we are in the middle of another situation and people are wondering why I have not addressed it up to this point.
It is alleged that the lead vocals of frontman Steve Augeri are not always live when the guys perform and furthermore, it is questioned just what portion of each show features backing tapes.
The allegations have been misreported somewhat, with the term lip-syncing used in most cases. What needs to be clarified is the fact that the allegation is that while Steve has been singing, the band have been using backing tapes to enhance or cover-up his on stage performance.

The chatter moved from my message boards to a dedicated Blog journal and from there it seems to have taken on a life of its own, including fresh comments from a well known Swedish sound engineer in regards to the band's Sweden Rock Festival performance.

This issue is beginning to hurt the band and their reputation. Regardless of who or how it started, there is now a big enough question mark hanging over the band and it has to be addressed. And ASAP. Journey begin an extensive U.S. tour with Def Leppard in New Jersey on Friday.

What has delayed my commenting on this issue the lack of any statement from the band or management. That is their call. But as with previous Journey reports, I have always had the benefit of a statement or quote from someone in the Journey camp and that is what I have been holding out for. At this stage I have contacted management and all members of the band several times, and am confident I will soon receive some official word to put this all to rest.

For the good of the band this needs to be addressed now.
Someone needs to set up a situation where the band can move on from this and a situation where fans and supporters can return to enjoying their favourite artist, rather than tearing each other apart on Internet message boards.

Never got the chance to read this...thanks andrew for the repost very interesting ...and they have never responded to this ? wow amazing...

Shania I agree that it is now in Journey's hands.
Personally I want them to wash their hands before
they feed me with them.
Good Luck with the tour guys but until you make a
statement one way or another I will not be buying
a concert ticket.

I voted NO, because it is not to the degree that some think-ERIC

Abitaman wrote:I voted NO, because it is not to the degree that some think-ERIC

Dude, you are 11 inches short of a foot. Get some help, go to scholl, do some Goddamned thing, but most of all, open your ears.

from Deano as qutoed
"Author Message
Rockn'deano

Abitaman wrote:
I voted NO, because it is not to the degree that some think-ERIC


Dude, you are 11 inches short of a foot. Get some help, go to scholl, do some Goddamned thing, but most of all, open your ears. "





Your 4 quarts short of a gallon, there is no help for you, and you need the school not me (See it is spelled school, not scholl), and most important for you shut your mouth -ERIC

Rockn'deano wrote:Dude, you are 11 inches short of a foot. Get some help, go to scholl, do some Goddamned thing, but most of all, open your ears.

Gee, thanks for respecting my request in the opening post of this thread. Same goes for Abitaman.

conversationpc wrote:

Rockn'deano wrote:Dude, you are 11 inches short of a foot. Get some help, go to scholl, do some Goddamned thing, but most of all, open your ears.

Gee, thanks for respecting my request in the opening post of this thread. Same goes for Abitaman.

Sorry dude, your right-ERIC

I believe that he's getting help, but it's not enough for me to care as long as he sounds decent.

The Vegas DVD: also could not care less if it was recorded in studio. Next you're going to tell me the original Send Her My Love video is overdubbed with the studio track. Oh, it is? Oh well.

Andrew wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:When Andrew ran his report I thought it was clear that he said there is no lip synching.

I did not say that at all. I did say that the allegations were being mis-reported as lip-syncing....rather they are that Steve sings (yes), but what goes into the mike isn't always what is being heard....the vocals being heard by the audience are being played back from tape.

...................................

Post of the week! Way to go Andrew!

I voted not sure, at some points I can hear that the vocals are close to the Vegas DVD and the reports of the guy Svante, I never heard that Faithfully clip. I have a hard time believing that this was done last year at the concert I was at in Sept at Hollywood Fl. because I remember how average SA sounded that night and just seemed off a bit. Like I said in a post on another thread I will be at a show on 7/10 and I will listen/ see for myself and give myself a first hand opinon

After I read Svante Petersson's report on what he and those engineers heard coming out of the soundboard and what Journey's sound engineer kept insisting that they record for broadcast, I was stunned. All the conjecture from people analyzing bootlegs was irrelevant to me AFTER that. You'd have to be an idiot not to believe the professionals who recorded it for radio.
It is obvious the band changed at least during the last one or two shows, as mentioned in the reports of his voice being shot.

heardonthestreet wrote:

Andrew wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:When Andrew ran his report I thought it was clear that he said there is no lip synching.

I did not say that at all. I did say that the allegations were being mis-reported as lip-syncing....rather they are that Steve sings (yes), but what goes into the mike isn't always what is being heard....the vocals being heard by the audience are being played back from tape.

...................................

Post of the week! Way to go Andrew!

Mmmmm dunno about all that....unsaid is the extent of it to Andrew's knowlegde. I've maintained all along I think some words and phrases are probably piped in over his singing... and I still fail to see how the quote "the allegations were being misreported as lip synching" is a backup of the irresponsible lip synching allegation(s).