A time to reflect

[Andrew]

Wow, another day logging on and another filled message board to wade through. Except today, the first thread I read is the one about this place being a dump. Now I can't be assed reading a single other post.

You know what. That poster may have been an asshole in the way he described this place, but he ain't far wrong.

But whose fault is it? Deano? His supporters? The Perry faction - ready to pounce at the very smell of blood? Me? THE Augeri-heads who are backing their man to the hilt?

Well, everyone. Everyone is responsible for their own actions and I'm responsible for letting you all kill each other right here.

No one reading this will have any idea of the amount of shit I have had flung at me over the last 2-4 weeks. NO ONE.
I have copped so much shit and NONE of it is my doing. I have kept my mouth shut and merely tried to moderate this forum with the understanding that this is an extremely difficult time for Journey fans. And don't give me sit about people posting here not being fans.

We are ALL fans.

So - there remains one entity that has been responsible for all this and this one entitty has not stood up to the plate to deal with it.

JOURNEY.

Good men of Journey - your fans are KILLING each other. I believe we are at a point where there might not be ANY going back.

It's not just this forum. Recent concert reviews have been horrid...not only reporters/journalists, but FANS also have been disappointed.

It is not just this forum that fans are going overboard. It's everywhere...this is a mess and the cleaners need to get to work.

In light of my post here - I have no idea how this will be received, but I don't really care. Recent events have tarnished my view of the band and I'm not sure where that leaves me for the future either.

I just want this mess over and so does EVERYONE else.

If you support what I'm saying here, try and refrian from posting to any other thread for today. Leave the fighting behind...

[nolippin]

I agree 100%...excellent post.

Wow, another day logging on and another filled message board to wade through. Except today, the first thread I read is the one about this place being a dump. Now I can't be assed reading a single other post.

You know what. That poster may have been an asshole in the way he described this place, but he ain't far wrong.

But whose fault is it? Deano? His supporters? The Perry faction - ready to pounce at the very smell of blood? Me? THE Augeri-heads who are backing their man to the hilt?

Well, everyone. Everyone is responsible for their own actions and I'm responsible for letting you all kill each other right here.

No one reading this will have any idea of the amount of shit I have had flung at me over the last 2-4 weeks. NO ONE.
I have copped so much shit and NONE of it is my doing. I have kept my mouth shut and merely tried to moderate this forum with the understanding that this is an extremely difficult time for Journey fans. And don't give me sit about people posting here not being fans.

We are ALL fans.

So - there remains one entity that has been responsible for all this and this one entitty has not stood up to the plate to deal with it.

JOURNEY.

Good men of Journey - your fans are KILLING each other. I believe we are at a point where there might not be ANY going back.

It's not just this forum. Recent concert reviews have been horrid...not only reporters/journalists, but FANS also have been disappointed.

It is not just this forum that fans are going overboard. It's everywhere...this is a mess and the cleaners need to get to work.

In light of my post here - I have no idea how this will be received, but I don't really care. Recent events have tarnished my view of the band and I'm not sure where that leaves me for the future either.

I just want this mess over and so does EVERYONE else.

If you support what I'm saying here, try and refrian from posting to any other thread for today. Leave the fighting behind...

[TRAGChick]

**standing ovation**

Thank you, Andrew...

[NealIsGod]

You got it, Andrew. I had no idea the situation is as bad as you say.

[Rockindeano]

You got it, Andrew. I had no idea the situation is as bad as you say.

It's not. It's much much worse.

[Memorex]

Andrew,

I for one feel nothing but pity for Journey right now. They have taken what was once the greatest melodic rock band in the history of music and tarnished it beyond repair, in my opinion. IN MY OPINION.

Last week I was pissed and offended. This week, I feel pity. This is quickly turning to apathy, and as we all know, that means the end of the road for me. I no longer care if they use tapes, destroy Augeri's voice, or cancel the tour and hang it up. For me, they have gone beyond what I can handle as a fan. A fan of Journey and a fan of music.

The board took the direction it did because that's what everyone wanted to talk about. If you count the number of posts in the pro-deano side, it will likely equal the count of posts from the other side. Without ever getting an answer, I feel there will be no closure. If in the future someone decides to give Augeri high marks on a concert, someone will likely reply with a comment saying it must be taped. We are all left to discover the truth on our own because as you said, the one entity that could address it, hasn't.

I see Journey being as important to Deano and the others as it is to Ace, and Augeri1, and was to Pit.

For me, Journey will always be important. But not the current incarnation. I will be rooting for Sony (who I hate) and Steve Perry, and everyone at Legacy to continue bringing classic, timeless music to future generations. This Journey has written me off, and I am writing them off. There is better music out there. There are classier bands out there. There is music out there that deserves the attention I will give it.

Andrew, please let this board be whatever the posters dictate. If it goes off in negative directions for a while, it's because that's reality. If someone is hurtful beyond what the band is doing, then of course you should dump them. I would delete any threads with death threats, crap about AIDS and sexual preference, etc. But if the band's actions are causing a rift, then let it happen. Don't ever become the joke that other sites are.

I respect your noted distance on this and I respect your post above. Keep up the good work. Don’t lose any sleep over me or any other pasionate posters. Words on these pages are not ever really indicitive of who we are as people.

[Liam]

Perfectly stated Andrew. I agree 100%

[Argus]

Close the board and walk away from the edge.

[nolippin]

That seems to be the agenda, particularly of the BT and Cooler mods, since they are the biggest shit stirrers. So, are their actions sanctioned by the band??

http://www.aimoo.com/forum/postview.cfm ... ID=2569003

http://profiles.yahoo.com/owbowagowy

Close the board and walk away from the edge.

[Andrew]

Close the board and walk away from the edge.

If there is one person's advice I won't be talking, it will be your's Ace. You have thrown plenty at me this week, yet I have no problem in your continuing to be a part of this board.

I'm one who firmly believes in allowing everyone to have their say. And that is the way it will stay.

[Perry86fan]

Andrew i really don't think it is right all the crap you have had to put up with. You have tryed to give us a home to come and post & have a good time here. I know that some do get out of hand at times they just want to get there point across.I love the journey with Perry but it breaks my heart that the once great music is gone.Because i really feel they just care about the money and not the fans.

[Memorex]

Seems it would be easy for those who are fed up here to take up a collection and purchase the software and infrastructure to start a new board, moderated as they wish.

[NealIsGod]

Seems it would be easy for those who are fed up here to take up a collection and purchase the software and infrastructure to start a new board, moderated as they wish.

Like a blog, maybe?

[Memorex]

Like a blog, maybe?

Perfect example.

[heardonthestreet]

Andrew! You are our fearless leader. Talk about strength of character?

You rule!

[Rockindeano]

Here comes Ace, walking in to make some corrections....Dude pulls out his weapon of choice, and ........

[nolippin]

They already have their own boards. The complainers are mostly mods and owners of those boards...Backtalk...Augeriville...the Cooler.

The band lurks this board. So do their family members....some have even posted here. They know what's going on. A lot more energy is being put into shutting down the talk of the scam than it would take to address it.

Seems it would be easy for those who are fed up here to take up a collection and purchase the software and infrastructure to start a new board, moderated as they wish.

[Journeynut]

So - there remains one entity that has been responsible for all this and this one entitty has not stood up to the plate to deal with it.

JOURNEY.

This is the most frustrating part of all of this.

[Moon Beam]

Thank You Andrew
Your right none of us can ever know what you
deal with daily because of the likes of us and the words
we choose.
I love this site and the forums.
With everything in me dear Sir I will
try and refrain from spitting fire at a few
because you requested it for this one day.
After everything you do for us it's the very least I
can do for you.
Sleep well Aussie Bossy and I hope your week improves.

[Andrew]

Sleep well Aussie Bossy and I hope your week improves.

Thank you and maybe it will...maybe it won't! I'm always hopeful.

[StyxCollector]

Great post Andrew. Believe me, I can sympathize with you. Been there done that, and being neutral and allowing all sides has hurt me in the past.

[Rockindeano]

Sleep well Aussie Bossy and I hope your week improves.

Thank you and maybe it will...maybe it won't! I'm always hopeful.

You know damned well it's not gonna get better dude!

[Monker]

So - there remains one entity that has been responsible for all this and this one entitty has not stood up to the plate to deal with it.

JOURNEY.

Journey isn't any more responsible for the actions of their fans then Steve Perry is responsible for the action of his. The people who post here have free will and make their own choices. There is NOTHING Journey, or Steve Perry for whatever that's worth, can say or do to change how people are acting on a message forum COMPLETELY outside of their control.

I just want this mess over and so does EVERYONE else.

I don't think that is true either. It seems to me that there are many posting to this forum who have CONSISTANTLY thrived on any sort of controversy involving Journey that can be dreamed up. It's been their pattern for years. They don't want this to end, they want it to continue.

[LAWoman]

I'm not sure what you want to happen. Andrew says everyone is responsible for their own actions (I completely agree). But then he says there is one entity responsible for all of this--Journey (both can't be correct). So I guess you want them to say something. What are the options?

If they state: we deny all allegations. That would stop the arguing? No.
If they state: everything is absolutely true. SA has been lipsynching forever (or however long the latest allegation is). That would stop the arguing? Doubt it.
So if they state: sorry, we used tapes a few times but now we've stopped. Stop the controversy? How do you figure that?
So if they state: sorry, we've been using tapes and now we are go to cancel the tour and quit. So that would stop the arguing? No--another big controversy.

Sometimes there is no going back. It's very similar to the SP issue. No matter what Perry or Journey say, there's still an argument.

This is Journey's decision. It's their band, their livelihood. We are just observers. If it's causing grief at MR, that is not Journey's problem.

[Rockindeano]

This is Journey's decision. It's their band, their livelihood. We are just observers. If it's causing grief at MR, that is not Journey's problem.

We aren't just observers, we are fare paying fans. WE pay these guys to do their jobs, and do them right.

You are such a kiss ass Barb, it's farcical. It IS Journey's decision. It IS their livelyhood, and IT IS their problem.

I don't feel the least amount of shame or guilt, no way. If anything, I feel I have done something noteworthy. No, it's not at all about me, but because of me and a lot of concerned fans, Journey as indeed altered it's playing, and perhaps the rest of the tour.

[StyxCollector]

I'm not sure what you want to happen. Andrew says everyone is responsible for their own actions (I completely agree). But then he says there is one entity responsible for all of this--Journey (both can't be correct). So I guess you want them to say something. What are the options?

If they state: we deny all allegations. That would stop the arguing? No.
If they state: everything is absolutely true. SA has been lipsynching forever (or however long the latest allegation is). That would stop the arguing? Doubt it.
So if they state: sorry, we used tapes a few times but now we've stopped. Stop the controversy? How do you figure that?
So if they state: sorry, we've been using tapes and now we are go to cancel the tour and quit. So that would stop the arguing? No--another big controversy.

Sometimes there is no going back. It's very similar to the SP issue. No matter what Perry or Journey say, there's still an argument.

This is Journey's decision. It's their band, their livelihood. We are just observers. If it's causing grief at MR, that is not Journey's problem.

I've said it before about this situation, damned if they do, damned if they don't. But the longer they let it fester, the worse it got. A simple statement at the beginning would have simplified things. Instead, I think they did the "it'll blow over" thing. Now the reviews are coming in and they are fair at best when it comes to Steve Augeri's performance. Deen is being praised. Bad word of mouth is Journey's problem. They're not doing well in front of a whole other set of fans who may not know much of them.

It has nothing about causing grief on a message board or two (and you can't really discuss it openly at BT, so you can't count that ...), but it has everything to do with a pissed off fan base whether or not it's as simple as Steve A. stinking up the joint, or Lip Gate 2006. Die hards who post on boards like this make up a small % of the overall fan base who will be affected by a bad live performance.

Controversy aside, it just doesn't look good from any angle. There's no real way to pick up the pieces after this. If Journey was smart, they'd take a nice, long break after this summer jaunt. I doubt that will happen.

[LAWoman]

This is Journey's decision. It's their band, their livelihood. We are just observers. If it's causing grief at MR, that is not Journey's problem.

We aren't just observers, we are fare paying fans. WE pay these guys to do their jobs, and do them right.

You are such a kiss ass Barb, it's farcical. It IS Journey's decision. It IS their livelyhood, and IT IS their problem.

I don't feel the least amount of shame or guilt, no way. If anything, I feel I have done something noteworthy. No, it's not at all about me, but because of me and a lot of concerned fans, Journey as indeed altered it's playing, and perhaps the rest of the tour.

I'm glad you are proud of yourself, but did I even mention you? It is clearly ALL Journey's decision. You are annoyed because you can't force their hand. They're just a band, a private entity. They are not elected. Your recourse is to stop going to shows and stop buying CDs if you don't like whatever you think they are doing or not doing.

[Memorex]

LAWoman - It's that kind of arrogance, shared by the band, that is the problem for me. It's not a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. I would have respected them more if they had of addressed their long time fans. Besides, sometimes there are right things to do even if there is a downside.

They are counting on people like you to keep them going. And it will work. But it won't be without a loss of respect by many.

This issue will always cloud them. In years to come, someone writing about them will end their story with, "...and after 8 years with the new line-up they were reduced to using tapes and sub-par performamces...." Not the end to the story I was hoping for.

[Distant Voice]

Great Post Andrew ...

I have reason to believe a change is coming...

I think we should all try and be civil to one another for the time being, Neal Schon/Journey has to speak up sooner or later... I'm betting sooner.

[Abitaman]

Andrew, just now read this thread, been posting on some of the others, throwing back to deano, but most in fun. I have tried to keep it light, and I feel like a broken record here of late, don't even spend time over on my favorite group's board (STYX). But you are rigt, and I think most everyone here is tired of it all, and there will be no peace, until Journey steps up and says one way or the other. Either way I'm still a Journey fan.-ERIC