MR

Putting aside the Journey issue,which i hope is calming down?
I hope the future of live music will not be about replacing musicians ability's with a tape.Can you imagine a guitarist saying hey my fingers are not as fast put a tape on,or a drummer to old to keep up miming his parts to drum machine.
People like Hendrix,John Bonham,Angus Young,Gene Simmons,Steve Perry,Robert Plant all became what they are through talent.
When i visit a local pub and see a band who have a good musician or two this is still a thrill,this should be the case for live music still.Robert Plant has a diffrent voice to what he had but i accept that,we have grown older with him.
I just hope if someone in a band cant do it anymore, they will step down gracefully like sportsmen do and leave us with good memories of you.
Steve Augeri has worked so hard for Journey and he had/has a great voice and should be rememberd for that,tapes are an easy way out of a problem and so is stealing sometimes but its not right.
If anything good comes of all this tape-gate saga,maybe bands will think twice before using this method to sort problems and bow out gracefully or just drop a key or two to help out.

We know your stance on the issue - you've made the same point, or at least very similar points, over and over in several forums. You say 'putting aside the Journey issue' but cannot resist coming back to that very subject in your next paragraph. Why keep regurgitating the arguments?

This whole 'debate' has been done to exhaustion and the two most extreme opposing sides - those who believe the 'evidence' and those who don't believe there is any evidence - will not find any more converts to their respective points of view.

If one were of a suspicious mind, one might think this post was designed to rekindle the flames that finally seem to be dying down a little.

Marty

MartyMoffatt wrote:
If one were of a suspicious mind, one might think this post was designed to rekindle the flames that finally seem to be dying down a little.
Marty

Shut it Euro. This entire tapegate thing has done it's job.

The poster asked how far a band can go with tapes? I say it goes as far as possible until a fan or fans catch on and call them on it. There is no doubt in my mind, that if I didn't put up the blog, or publicly say something, this would still be going on. No doubt at all.

MartyMoffatt wrote:We know your stance on the issue - you've made the same point, or at least very similar points, over and over in several forums. You say 'putting aside the Journey issue' but cannot resist coming back to that very subject in your next paragraph. Why keep regurgitating the arguments?

This whole 'debate' has been done to exhaustion and the two most extreme opposing sides - those who believe the 'evidence' and those who don't believe there is any evidence - will not find any more converts to their respective points of view.

If one were of a suspicious mind, one might think this post was designed to rekindle the flames that finally seem to be dying down a little.

Marty

You have misunderstood i am talking generally about music and other bands,i dont want to debate Journey just lets hope musicians do not resort to this in the future as it may kill off live music in general. It just so happens Journey are the band which are being talked about regarding this. My point is this could destroy many much loved people in music.My favourite guitarist is Eddie Van Halen,i would hope if he cant play well anymore that he would not use a tape just retire.
You sound angry with me? Give me the benefit of the doubt i am talking live music in general i am sure you can understand and appreciate that

I have no doubt that you have no doubt in your mind. That wasn't the point.

Marty

bionic wrote: You have misunderstood i am talking generally about music and other bands,i dont want to debate Journey just lets hope musicians do not resort to this in the future as it may kill off live music in general. It just so happens Journey are the band which are being talked about regarding this. My point is this could destroy many much loved people in music.My favourite guitarist is Eddie Van Halen,i would hope if he cant play well anymore that he would not use a tape just retire.
You sound angry with me? Give me the benefit of the doubt i am talking live music in general i am sure you can understand and appreciate that

Sorry, didn't mean to sound angry. I'm just a little frustrated that your tone implied 'fact' when it is still just opinion. Until incontrovertible evidence is put forward, these are just hypothetical arguments. Now as a hypothetical debate your point is quite valid.

Marty

MartyMoffatt wrote:

bionic wrote: You have misunderstood i am talking generally about music and other bands,i dont want to debate Journey just lets hope musicians do not resort to this in the future as it may kill off live music in general. It just so happens Journey are the band which are being talked about regarding this. My point is this could destroy many much loved people in music.My favourite guitarist is Eddie Van Halen,i would hope if he cant play well anymore that he would not use a tape just retire.
You sound angry with me? Give me the benefit of the doubt i am talking live music in general i am sure you can understand and appreciate that

Sorry, didn't mean to sound angry. I'm just a little frustrated that your tone implied 'fact' when it is still just opinion. Until incontrovertible evidence is put forward, these are just hypothetical arguments. Now as a hypothetical debate your point is quite valid.

Marty

Thanks sorry to sound like it was Fact that was my mistake and my opinion only. I mean just in general regarding music and bands.Thats what makes rock music to me stand above other genres the sheer quality of musicianship in bands like VH,Zep Sabbath or Journey to name a few.

MartyMoffatt wrote:
Sorry, didn't mean to sound angry. I'm just a little frustrated that your tone implied 'fact' when it is still just opinion. Until incontrovertible evidence is put forward, these are just hypothetical arguments. Now as a hypothetical debate your point is quite valid.

Marty

Incontrovertible evidence? Ok, so the boots aren't good enough? The fact Augeri is singing live now for the first time in a year isn't good enough? What will it take? Tell me?

They will never admit it. Seriously, what will it take? For them to cancel? For Augeri to quit? You tell me.

Oh Dean you and I and alot of the other folks know as well as the band that the only thing that is going to stop this is if people not going to the
concerts and buying their product. LaWoman might think I'm talking about product liability but it's true; they guys are going to keep playing as
long as people keep buying tickets.
Unforutnately people don't care if they buy tickets for taped performaces again and again. That's the point. And the band doesn't mind collecting
the money. So I have to ask; who are the stupid ones?

It would be my guess that anyone who is faking a performance will continue it for as long as people will keep buying tickets to the shows.

bionic wrote:Putting aside the Journey issue,which i hope is calming down?
I hope the future of live music will not be about replacing musicians ability's with a tape.Can you imagine a guitarist saying hey my fingers are not as fast put a tape on,or a drummer to old to keep up miming his parts to drum machine.
People like Hendrix,John Bonham,Angus Young,Gene Simmons,Steve Perry,Robert Plant all became what they are through talent.
When i visit a local pub and see a band who have a good musician or two this is still a thrill,this should be the case for live music still.Robert Plant has a diffrent voice to what he had but i accept that,we have grown older with him.
I just hope if someone in a band cant do it anymore, they will step down gracefully like sportsmen do and leave us with good memories of you.
Steve Augeri has worked so hard for Journey and he had/has a great voice and should be rememberd for that,tapes are an easy way out of a problem and so is stealing sometimes but its not right.
If anything good comes of all this tape-gate saga,maybe bands will think twice before using this method to sort problems and bow out gracefully or just drop a key or two to help out.

Lets keep this just about music in general and how we want bands not to go down the road of to much tape use,all bands such as Toto, Survivor, Kiss,AC/DC etc. I am wishing i had not posted this if it starts everything off again...Andrew feel free to close this if it gets nasty

They suddenly have credibilty now because the singer is squeaking his way through a show? Oh...okay.
The minute he can't squeak through 1/2 a song, they will be back to WHAT? You tell me. Don't think about it too hard or hurt yourselves. What is the alternative when they are there to collect a paycheck? As long as they can sell a ticket to some mindless idiot who doesn't care about what they are hearing, only about getting drunk, getting out of the house for a couple hours, staring at a bandmember or anything else not pertaining to the PERFORMANCE, then they can go on collecting revenue from those types of people till they hit retirement.

What it comes down to for me is that I question the motive of anyone doing this. Why? Is it because it's a common misconception that the fans want an absolutely perfect show or is it because said performers are simply manufactured in the studio without the talent and capability to perform well live? In either case for me it's not ok. Get off the stage or give me the real deal that I never expected perfection from in the first place. Would be the same with Eddie Van Halen or Scott Stapp getting stoned and screwing up the show, get off the stage. I've actually read some horrifying stories of guitarists that weren't able to perform a show because they were so stoned and were out on stage and couldn't even pull off the pretending part because they kept falling over.

KittyKat wrote:I've actually read some horrifying stories of guitarists that weren't able to perform a show because they were so stoned and were out on stage and couldn't even pull off the pretending part because they kept falling over.

As soon as I read that I thought of Slash.

bionic wrote:
...how we want bands not to go down the road of to much tape use,all bands such as Toto

Bobby Kimball busts his ass to keep in vocal shape and NOT use tapes...and he's OLDER than Augeri.

JDouglee wrote:

bionic wrote:
...how we want bands not to go down the road of to much tape use,all bands such as Toto

Bobby Kimball busts his ass to keep in vocal shape and NOT use tapes...and he's OLDER than Augeri.

MUCH older than Augeri....

And man, he belts it out night in, night out...!


Ray

Bobby K rocks!

I'm in a local band out here in Seattle and there's a band out here that does a disco tribute. They wear fro wigs and do disco hits. Their entire show is to a click track and I swear they're singing to the actual released tracks of the band. It sucks because everybody thinks they're incredibly good. They're good, but they're not THAT good. I watched a club owner go to the sound board and put on head phones and laugh because she could hear the reality of what was happening. It was kind of a drag to see that she totally supported that and other bands (like my own) played her club completely live, had a great crowd, but because she was a disco fan, she was fine with paying up the wazzoo for this band. grrrr....