MR

This is long, if ya don't wanna read, skip it, but here's my thoughts on the Atlanta boot, and I guess, thoughts on the Soto/Journey- thanks to whoever posted the boot!

Ok, so I've been waiting to hear Soto with Journey with baited breath. I've read all the reviews saying how great it was, etc. I'm a huge Perry and Augeri fan, and I'm pretty bummed about the whole lipping thing (and unfortunately, I believe it). I'm also a singer and have been for the last 25 years doing 4.5 hour shows in clubs since I was a young guy. I'm not a big fan of Soto's voice on the Soul Sirkus record, but at least he was singing in his range and it worked for that record. I was willing to give the guy a chance just for the Journey songs (they're great). Thank God, I didn't buy a ticket for their Seattle show...

Having got the disclaimer out of the way, I'm listening to the Atlanta boot and I don't think this is a good fit at all. Jeff, while a decent vocalist on his own, is NOT for Journey. The songs are WAY too high for him. This boot sounds worse than any Augeri boot I've ever heard. While Augeri's pitch was off sometimes (could've been his in ear monitors giving him that problem) he rarely completely misses the notes in the way Soto's voice does. Soto tries yelling to hit them. You can hear the tightness in his voice and he completely misses most of the high notes, not by inches but by miles.

I can't see how ANYBODY listening to this can say it's a good move on Journey's part. This is a mess with a capital M. They should be embarrassed. Jesus, WHY NOT call Hugo to finish the tour? Or the Storm guy? Is that just because Soto is Neal's bud? This is crap.

"Anyway You Want It" - (all the songs actually) he's pulling his chest voice way too high and he's really straining on the high notes. If he keeps this up on this tour, Journey will have toasted another singer. Seriously, these are high songs and this guy is using a lower chest voice than Perry or Augeri to hit these notes and it WILL mess his voice up. While the band sounds like it has a lot of energy, Jeff sounds strained and like it's more controlled yelling than singing. He's totally straining to hit these notes folks. Someone mentioned train wreck in another post, this is a vocal train wreck of the worst degree.

Listen to the last bits of "Ask the Lonely" (3:33 or so) prior to the piano solo. It's HORRIBLE singing. It sounds like Phil Lynott singing with Journey and it DOESN'T work. (Nothing against Phil, but he knew his range). Soto is way pushing his voice and it ain't gonna last if he keeps it up. Decent singer, but these songs are so far out of his range. Oh, and yes, they ARE in the original keys. WHY doesn't Journey lower the keys for their singers?? Because the backup vocals are tracked and while lowering the keys might work for any midi stuff (Jon Cain), it's not going to work for those audio parts.
"Ask the Loney" 1:38- what the heck was that???? And then listen to it when Soto comes back in. This guy cannot cut this gig and he's not the right guy. This is laughably bad. I feel sorry for this guy too. Journey's songs rock, but they need to start taking care of their singers. Lower the damned keys! Rerecord your tracked vocals if you must, but lower the keys.

"Stone in Love" is totally missing the melody note in the chorus. Soto's singing a lower harmony and nobody is taking that lead note. Oh, wait, it comes out on the second chorus. That must be Deen, cuz it ain't JSS. This song is the sound of a guy blowing his voice out. Listen to the line "Golden girl, I'll keep you forever" (1:37). Are you shitting me? This is worse than any Augeri recording and I'm only into the 5th song. Listen to 2:18 -"Stone in Lo-wooove". TERRIBLE. Um... also at the end of the song, did Ross take a vacation or something??? What the hell happens to the bass??? He starts playing in a different key! He must've been trying to follow Soto's search for the correct pitch.

If I paid for a Journey ticket and saw this show, I'd walk out and I'm a huge fan of the band. Wow, this is really really bad. I've NEVER heard Journey sound this horrible. I can't believe how bad it is.

"Wheel in the Sky" is equally as bad. The high notes at the end are complete shit. In fact, any of the high notes in this song don't cut it.

To Steve Augeri- although I can't believe it will happen - get your voice the attention it needs and get back on the road with Journey before the band totally self destructs! Get together with Jaime Vendarra or Mark Baxter. They can help! They're both great teachers.

Strange, Castronovo doesn't sound that great on 'Who's Crying Now' either, but at least it's not bad. It's just not as good as he usually is. Sounds like the band is in depressed mode.

"Chain Reaction" works. This is not a hard song to sing though (I sang it for years). Neal's guitar playiing is a bit off in spots (?!?!) too. The vocal flourish Soto does at the end doesn't cut it at all. This guy reminds me of Rare Earth's singer (I just wanna celebrate, yeah yeah, another day of living, yeah!) but not as good, at least with this band.

"Lights" funny, Jeff has the same problem with the same notes I did! Funny though, Augeri usually nailed this one. Jeff's trying to do vocal runs and stuff. He should just worry about doing the studio version and not worry about the other stuff to save his throat. This one comes off okay but definitely strained and pitchy. I liked the Hendrix ending Neal tags on the end. Haven't heard that before.

"Open Arms"- Thank God Deen sings this. NO WAY could Soto pull this off. NO WAY. Castronovo does a good job on this difficult song. If they were smart, they'd forgo the 'frontman thing' and let Castronovo do the entire show. Geez, have Neal front the band. It's HIS band anyway. It'd be like Rick Nielsen fronting Cheap Trick. Neal should front. JSS is a waste.

"Lovin Touchin Squeezin"- Cain plays semi-decent harmonica here. Cool, something different on a song I've heard about a billion times. One thing, the band is way looser on this show than I've ever heard. Sometimes it comes across as slop. It works here. Soto seems to pull this one off okay... oh wait, he hands it off to Castronovo for the high parts ? If this were an Augeri show, everyone would've been all over him. As a whole, the song works better than anything else Soto sang during this show, but it's not that difficult of a song either. Weird, Jeff sings some good high notes at the end on "One more time___". Why is he not using THAT voice for the other high notes?

"Escape"- probably one of my all time favorite Journey songs. On the "They won't take me, They won't break me" somebody needs to guide Jeff to the pitch. Jeez. Sounds like Cain's using some different keyboards on this one, not a good thing. Soto strains a lot on the bridge and, again, misses the notes. He DOES hit the "I'll Break Away, I'll Break Away Tonight" which is a part that both Steve's regular stumbled on. Nice high note before the guitar solo. Weird that he has moments of goodness, but the rest is pretty bad. The end is bad. That last note that Soto sings is so strained and so far from the mark. God, how did this guy get this gig??

"Dead or Alive"- Not a hard song to sing at all. He stumbles on the Mazerati line. Not sure why. This ones, fine, but again, not a tough song.

"Faithfully"- Deen pulls this off. Good job.

"Don't Stop Believing"- Newsflash!!! As of this boot, I've stopped believing!
"Hiding somewhere in the NIGGGGGHHHHT" it's terrible! (He gets much closer the second time, just before the guitar solo) I know I'm a new guy here, but you guys can't actually be standing behind this incarnation of Journey after hearing this boot, can you??!! I'd like to hear some other singers weigh in here. Also, though the audience sounds like it's enjoying the show, HOW COULD THEY??? Are they tone deaf??? Oh my God, this was a terrible show.

"Separate Ways"
Sotos voice is way under mixed on the choruses. He does okay on the verses, except just before the "In Vain" run. The tracked vocals are actually really loud in this one. Actually, Jeff pulls this one off the best out of all his songs tonight. Most of the song works.

Final thoughts:
It's too bad that all this had to happen. Journeys' been using tracks for years (listen to Don't Stop Believin' from the 1983 Japan boot- there are at least 2 Perry's singing and on Don't fight it too). Many bands do it.
To Journey, either get Augeri healthy again, or hang it up. Perry's not coming back so that's not an option. But lose Soto in a hurry, he's not the right guy for you. Have Neal front the band and have Deen Castronovo sing if you can't get Augeri healthy.

What a dissapointment this was.

I too was excited to hear this boot especially since I had heard only good things about JSS and Journey. I agree with you in that this match just does not work. I am a big Steve Augeri fan but was more than willing to give JSS a try. Now I am wondering if the people who are giving JSS such high regards were at the same shows that I'm hearing.

I've listened to this show a couple of times and the song that sticks out to me is Wheel In The Sky. It doesn't sound like singing, to be honest. The best way I can think to put it is "moaning". High notes just aren't there throughout the whole show. To me it's clear that JSS+Journey does not work. It would probably work fine in the studio, but not at all on tour with the classics that people expect to hear at a Journey show.

To Steve Augeri:
Rest that voice, get back on tour - if not this year than next year. Ideally, I would like to see Journey finish up the Def Leppard tour with JSS at the helm then when Steve is totally fine and good to go, get in the studio and record that new album that people have been hinting at. Take the summer of 2007 off to fine-tune the record and come back in late 2007/early-mid 2008 with a new record, a new Steve Augeri and a major tour. Wishful thinking, I have a feeling...

I agree 100%. We can now call them Bad Journey. It's not Bad English, it's not Soul Sirkus, and it's for sure not Journey.

I'm also disappointed with this boot, it sounds like JSS is overscreaming all the time. I doubt that Steve Augeri's voice will be what it was back in the beginning, I think he strained it too much already.

I fear the end is near for Journey unless they come up with a. Steve Perry, b. Kevin Chalfant or c. Hugo or d. dump the dirty dozen and start a new Journey

brywool wrote:This boot sounds worse than any Augeri boot I've ever heard.

Let's do a track by track analysis of an Augeri boot. (A live one)

Journey could remedy the BGV situation pretty easily in one afternoon. They could fly in all of the prerecorded audio tracks, including rhythm guitars and other audio, and have an engineer time stretch and key change all of the audio in a software program called Acid. Acid is an audio looping program that flawlessly will adjust the timing and pitch of any looped audio to the specified keys. It would take a day or so, but this could be done. Unfortunately, tuning down instruments is something completely different, and not something that the band could likely get used to in mid-tour. When a band tunes down and adjusts their playing, it's just flat out different, and it knocks them out of their comfort zone for a good while. It could be done, but it would be a major adjustment.

I agree. I'm not a singer but have many in my family and have a good ear for music. When I said this tour sucks it's because I heard exactly what everyone is now saying about the boot. I was 3rd row in Tampa and it sounded even worse then the ATL boot (so maybe JSS did improve?). I guess there are alot of tone deaf people out there giving this a good review or they were just enjoying the concert with some nice opinion altering beverages

I thought when he said this, that it was the most egotistical thing I'd ever heard. I was wrong. The stone has been cracked. In fact, I'd say the stone is shattered.

Barb wrote:I thought when he said this, that it was the most egotistical thing I'd ever heard. I was wrong. The stone has been cracked. In fact, I'd say the stone is shattered.

ba doobie...

FA


FA


PPPHHHHOOOOOOEEEEYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Que?

NealIsGod wrote:

Barb wrote:I thought when he said this, that it was the most egotistical thing I'd ever heard. I was wrong. The stone has been cracked. In fact, I'd say the stone is shattered.

ba doobie...

When a band tunes down and adjusts their playing, it's just flat out different, and it knocks them out of their comfort zone for a good while. It could be done, but it would be a major adjustment.

They were able to do it for Perry at the Golden Gate Park gig and pulled it off for the most part.

Jeremey wrote:Journey could remedy the BGV situation pretty easily in one afternoon. They could fly in all of the prerecorded audio tracks, including rhythm guitars and other audio, and have an engineer time stretch and key change all of the audio in a software program called Acid. Acid is an audio looping program that flawlessly will adjust the timing and pitch of any looped audio to the specified keys. It would take a day or so, but this could be done. Unfortunately, tuning down instruments is something completely different, and not something that the band could likely get used to in mid-tour. When a band tunes down and adjusts their playing, it's just flat out different, and it knocks them out of their comfort zone for a good while. It could be done, but it would be a major adjustment.

Sorry Jeremy..you dont have to adjust yr playing at all...not if just down a semi tone... yr playing everything in exactly the same position on the guitar..or keyboard... your still playing a "C" chord for example..in the same place... its just not aligned with normal tuning..eg standard middle C.... ALSO STRING TENSION IS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME WITH JUST A SEMI TONE STEP DOWN..IF YR GOING FOR A BIG DOWN TUNE..SAY A WHOLE STEP OR TWO STEPS... YOU WILL HAVE TO COMPENSATE BY FITTING THICKER GAUGE STRINGS..TO ACHIEVE THE SAME "TENSION" FEEL (shit..sorry bout the caps there!!)

like you said... a key change to vocals in say "Acid" is just an afternoons work ... same applies here too... just a semi tone down wont make the vocals sound too "drawly and slowed down" hardly noticeable

they obviously cant be bothered to rescue this situation!!

Barb wrote:Que?

NealIsGod wrote:

Barb wrote:I thought when he said this, that it was the most egotistical thing I'd ever heard. I was wrong. The stone has been cracked. In fact, I'd say the stone is shattered.

ba doobie...

Sorry, trying to start a Rolling Stones sing-a-long...

Shattered... ba-doobie...

Jeremey wrote:Journey could remedy the BGV situation pretty easily in one afternoon. They could fly in all of the prerecorded audio tracks, including rhythm guitars and other audio, and have an engineer time stretch and key change all of the audio in a software program called Acid. Acid is an audio looping program that flawlessly will adjust the timing and pitch of any looped audio to the specified keys. It would take a day or so, but this could be done. Unfortunately, tuning down instruments is something completely different, and not something that the band could likely get used to in mid-tour. When a band tunes down and adjusts their playing, it's just flat out different, and it knocks them out of their comfort zone for a good while. It could be done, but it would be a major adjustment.

Thanks for explaining this for me Jeremy. I've been asking why they didn't simply lower the key for JSS's comfort zone, and now I understand that it's just not that simple. Let's just hope Jeff's voice holds up to finish this tour then maybe they can make the necessary adjustments.

regarding the 'augeri boot' comment. I've listened to a bunch of them and have found some definite clams, but no single show was like this one. There were moments where it wasn't great, but it wasn't this bad, and it still sounded like a Journey concert.

neilmaclookalike wrote:Sorry Jeremy..you dont have to adjust yr playing at all...not if just down a semi tone... yr playing everything in exactly the same position on the guitar..or keyboard... your still playing a "C" chord for example..in the same place... its just not aligned with normal tuning..eg standard middle C.... ALSO STRING TENSION IS ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME WITH JUST A SEMI TONE STEP DOWN..IF YR GOING FOR A BIG DOWN TUNE..SAY A WHOLE STEP OR TWO STEPS... YOU WILL HAVE TO COMPENSATE BY FITTING THICKER GAUGE STRINGS..TO ACHIEVE THE SAME "TENSION" FEEL (shit..sorry bout the caps there!!)

like you said... a key change to vocals in say "Acid" is just an afternoons work ... same applies here too... just a semi tone down wont make the vocals sound too "drawly and slowed down" hardly noticeable

they obviously cant be bothered to rescue this situation!!

You are probably right...At one point in my cover band career, we tuned down a half step. For a month or so, the guitarists would look at their guitars like they were eggbeaters instead of instruments, wondering why they weren't hearing what they were used to hearing. Not so much a difference with string tension at a half-step, but if you are used to hearing certain notes where you put your fingers and something different is coming out, it could be a bit distracting...

yeah Jeremy... I agree..I cansee where you are at on this one!!

brywool wrote:regarding the 'augeri boot' comment. I've listened to a bunch of them and have found some definite clams, but no single show was like this one. There were moments where it wasn't great, but it wasn't this bad, and it still sounded like a Journey concert.

It's subjective. I mean you could go "what happened there?" in every Augeri live song if you wanted to.
I don't think JSS sounds like either Steve, and his vocal tone is somewhat lower, but he's singing live and they can't.
Bottom line.

The boot is here. If you don't dig it, don't go.

I don't agree at all. I think JSS doesn't have the vocal chops for Journey. The proof is in the boot.

Hey Jeremy- You couldn't use Acid on the already done vocal parts could you? I think that would make them sound unnatural (acid user here, btw)

JDouglee wrote:

brywool wrote:regarding the 'augeri boot' comment. I've listened to a bunch of them and have found some definite clams, but no single show was like this one. There were moments where it wasn't great, but it wasn't this bad, and it still sounded like a Journey concert.

It's subjective. I mean you could go "what happened there?" in every Augeri live song if you wanted to.
I don't think JSS sounds like either Steve, and his vocal tone is somewhat lower, but he's singing live and they can't.
Bottom line.

The boot is here. If you don't dig it, don't go.

High five it is what it is warts and all .. it's LIVE and not a soundboard boot (I don't think it is) don't like it, don't go. Pretty simple concept

brywool wrote:
Jesus, WHY NOT call Hugo to finish the tour?

I would be on the next plane over!

Day two. Still not working for me. Don't hate it or anything. Just don't think it's a good fit.

brywool wrote:Jesus, WHY NOT call Hugo to finish the tour?

Why not just put a jukebox up on stage and let it play the Greatest Hits CD?

You could make the Jukebox comment about any band though, right?

brywool wrote:Hey Jeremy- You couldn't use Acid on the already done vocal parts could you? I think that would make them sound unnatural (acid user here, btw)

Hey man!

Yes, Acid can time stretch and pitch correct almost imperceptably at only 1/2 step down. You aren't even bringing the notes down a whole step, it's a very small amount. The fact that they are then mixed in with the rest of the music would virtually eliminate any noticeable artifacts or anything...

I haven't used Acid in about 3 years, but I know they've made remarkable progress with the program since Sony took over Sonic Foundry.

conversationpc wrote:

brywool wrote:Jesus, WHY NOT call Hugo to finish the tour?

Why not just put a jukebox up on stage and let it play the Greatest Hits CD?

They already did.

conversationpc wrote:

brywool wrote:Jesus, WHY NOT call Hugo to finish the tour?

Why not just put a jukebox up on stage and let it play the Greatest Hits CD?

Exactly! So why is everybody clammoring for a singer who can sing them "just like the young Perry"? Why not let them evolve since this is supposed to be all about change and moving on with a new singer? Let the new singer sound like a new singer. Cloning Perry can't have any result but keeping them in the nostalgia rut.

brywool wrote:I don't agree at all. I think JSS doesn't have the vocal chops for Journey. The proof is in the boot.

It is NOT, just like it wasn't before.