Journey's "New" Direction

[fred_journeyman]

First off, I'm simply offering opinions here... a "what if" scenario, or how I see things, from my limited vantage point. Nothing more. It doesn't really matter to me in which direction Journey goes anymore. I have no stake in anything and (whether certain individuals believe it or not), I have no axe to grind, with Perry, Neal or anyone else associated with Journey. It's just not something that dogs my emotions as it does for some.

Since regrouping with Augeri, the decision has mainly been to stay the course - in concert - with the same material they've always played. When they've tried to play new music, it wasn't received too well, which forced them to remain essentially where they were - playing old favorites.

I think it's probably time for the band to have a full reunion (not only with Perry, but with Smith on drums as well), do a final tour of say, three to six months, then place Journey on the shelf. With the way things are going these days, this would probably be the best proposition for the band and they could go out somewhat resting on their laurels.

I think if the band is thinking (seriously) of moving in a new direction, it's going to be extremely tough at this juncture. They've shown since coming out of the gate (with Augeri) that the songs of the past are more important than anything new they might produce, musically because that's basically what they do in concert. Whether it's out of a measure of safety, or because of ticket sales, or CD sales, or whatever, one cannot deny that in live venues, Journey really has not progressed,

Now after years of having Augeri in the role of lead singer, he's out (at least temporarily) and Jeff is in. However, without saying it, they are introducing Jeff to the crowd as "the new guy who will continue to sing old Journey tunes." At the end of this tour, should Jeff remain, how are they going to move on in any new direction? I think they'll wind up simply redoing what's already been done.

Like I say, it doesn't matter to me what Journey decides to do because I lose no sleep over it either way. If they continue on with Soto in the role as lead singer, then I firmly believe they'll continue to do songs from their old catalogue and I seriously doubt that they'll produce any new Journey music either. If Augeri somehow returns, they will also continue singing the songs for which everyone knows Journey. I can't see them producing another CD of new music with Augeri either.

Because of the way they have addressed things in the past number of years since Augeri came onboard, they have forever convinced everyone in spite of the new CDs they've produced, that they are essentially a band that capializes on past hits. So, years later, they're all of a sudden going to try a new direction? How is that even possible? Granted, I'm not psychic and sometimes I can't even see around the next corner, but I cannot possibly see how Journey can or will move away from the rut they've gotten themselves into.

In case there is any confusion by these statements, I'd like to point out that these are simply my opinions and speculation, and that's all.

[conversationpc]

I've been against a "reunion" or "farewell" type tour but I'm beginning to think that might be the only way to go out gracefully. They would definitely have to tune those songs down, though, in order for it to work, in my opinion.

[Rockindeano]

Excellent post Fred.

Three things.

1- Augeri IS NOT coming back. Why is it so hard for people to understand that? No way, nope. The guy left because he could no longer sing, and now people think a "rest" will allow him to return, to sing those tough songs again? You have a better chance of sleeping with naomi Watts than seeing this guy ever hold a mic again. Moving on......

2- Jeff. I know he is tight with Neal, and he might have thought he could sing this catalogue, but he has got to be doubting this shit now. I am sure he thought, "this was his chance" to make some good bread, with a household name. After all, didn't he cancel tours with Talisman to do this? Obviously, Jeff is cashing in here as well, and who could blame him?
They aren't going in any new direction. You can't teach an old dog new tricks and this band, Journey, is not going in any new direction, let alone any direction, period. Muddling along, collecting bank, touring to the 'Dozen."

3- Perry. This is the wild card. If there was a better time for the reunion, I haven't seen it. It is time for Perry to start practicing with some resolve, getting ready for next year, say March/April, for a money loaded, Big City, tour. When I say "big city" I mean for instance, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco...not, Marysville, Sacramento, Mountain Winery, Paso Robles, Ventura, Redlands, Bakersfield or Indio for Christs sakes. fewer shows, top money, bigger venues.

It really isn't all that hard.

Oh yeah, fire Grandpa, if not for common sense, for spite. Just what has this old fuck done for you, Neal? Name one thing Irv has done for Journey?

[fred_journeyman]

Hey Guys,

I agree with you Conversationpc that tuning the songs down a step or two would be the way to go.

Rockndeano, I really don't think Augeri is coming back, but since nothing official has been announced, I'll go along with the given idea that Jeff is simply temporary.

Is Irv still their "manager"?

[FormerJrnyFan]

2- Jeff. I know he is tight with Neal, and he might have thought he could sing this catalogue, but he has got to be doubting this shit now. I am sure he thought, "this was his chance" to make some good bread, with a household name. After all, didn't he cancel tours with Talisman to do this? Obviously, Jeff is cashing in here as well, and who could blame him?

I bet he knows he can sing the cataloge and so does the rest of the band.

Two boots - that's the chance he gets??

[Rockindeano]

Hey Guys,

I agree with you Conversationpc that tuning the songs down a step or two would be the way to go.

Rockndeano, I really don't think Augeri is coming back, but since nothing official has been announced, I'll go along with the given idea that Jeff is simply temporary.

Is Irv still their "manager"?

Hanging on the notion that "official word" from Journey as absolute truth is ridiculous. Those guys couldn't tell the fucking Pope the truth, and they also are horrible liars too. Remember the genius who came up with "pneumania for Augeri?" One week later, they are playing in Hawaii. Doh!

Just not a real smart bunch of guys over there. In fact, a bunch of dumbshits to be sure.

[Saint John]

Excellent post Fred.

Three things.

1- Augeri IS NOT coming back. Why is it so hard for people to understand that? No way, nope. The guy left because he could no longer sing, and now people think a "rest" will allow him to return, to sing those tough songs again? You have a better chance of sleeping with naomi Watts than seeing this guy ever hold a mic again. Moving on......

2- Jeff. I know he is tight with Neal, and he might have thought he could sing this catalogue, but he has got to be doubting this shit now. I am sure he thought, "this was his chance" to make some good bread, with a household name. After all, didn't he cancel tours with Talisman to do this? Obviously, Jeff is cashing in here as well, and who could blame him?
They aren't going in any new direction. You can't teach an old dog new tricks and this band, Journey, is not going in any new direction, let alone any direction, period. Muddling along, collecting bank, touring to the 'Dozen."

3- Perry. This is the wild card. If there was a better time for the reunion, I haven't seen it. It is time for Perry to start practicing with some resolve, getting ready for next year, say March/April, for a money loaded, Big City, tour. When I say "big city" I mean for instance, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco...not, Marysville, Sacramento, Mountain Winery, Paso Robles, Ventura, Redlands, Bakersfield or Indio for Christs sakes. fewer shows, top money, bigger venues.

It really isn't all that hard.

Oh yeah, fire Grandpa, if not for common sense, for spite. Just what has this old fuck done for you, Neal? Name one thing Irv has done for Journey?

They need new management ASAP. This might sound crazy to some so brace yourselves. If they truly wanted to go in a new direction, and this is assuming Perry says "Fuck off, I'll NEVER tour with you guys," the man to hire is Clive Davis. Everything he touches turns to gold. I'm not sure who he'd get but that man knows what the hell he's doing. He's Herbie Herbert on steroids these days. Just a thought.

[Argus]

2- Jeff. I know he is tight with Neal, and he might have thought he could sing this catalogue, but he has got to be doubting this shit now. I am sure he thought, "this was his chance" to make some good bread, with a household name. After all, didn't he cancel tours with Talisman to do this? Obviously, Jeff is cashing in here as well, and who could blame him?

I bet he knows he can sing the cataloge and so does the rest of the band.

Two boots - that's the chance he gets??

I guess so geeeeeez but it is expected from people who are stuck in a time warp and don't want to move forward (I include RND here too), <sarcasm on> but since we are the freakin Center of the R&R Universe Neal should listen to what is proposed here and follow it to the letter or we're doomed </sarcasm off>

[Journey/Survivor]

Excellent post Fred.

Three things.

1- Augeri IS NOT coming back. Why is it so hard for people to understand that? No way, nope. The guy left because he could no longer sing, and now people think a "rest" will allow him to return, to sing those tough songs again? You have a better chance of sleeping with naomi Watts than seeing this guy ever hold a mic again. Moving on......

2- Jeff. I know he is tight with Neal, and he might have thought he could sing this catalogue, but he has got to be doubting this shit now. I am sure he thought, "this was his chance" to make some good bread, with a household name. After all, didn't he cancel tours with Talisman to do this? Obviously, Jeff is cashing in here as well, and who could blame him?
They aren't going in any new direction. You can't teach an old dog new tricks and this band, Journey, is not going in any new direction, let alone any direction, period. Muddling along, collecting bank, touring to the 'Dozen."

3- Perry. This is the wild card. If there was a better time for the reunion, I haven't seen it. It is time for Perry to start practicing with some resolve, getting ready for next year, say March/April, for a money loaded, Big City, tour. When I say "big city" I mean for instance, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco...not, Marysville, Sacramento, Mountain Winery, Paso Robles, Ventura, Redlands, Bakersfield or Indio for Christs sakes. fewer shows, top money, bigger venues.

It really isn't all that hard.

Oh yeah, fire Grandpa, if not for common sense, for spite. Just what has this old fuck done for you, Neal? Name one thing Irv has done for Journey?

As far as whether or not Steve Augeri will ever be back in Journey or not I don't know. But if Steve Augeri decides that he want's to continue a music career down the road then he definitely will be back in the business eventually.

There have been countless singers who have had major surgery on their throat to repair the damage of singing and they have returned a couple of years later and come back as good as ever.

I don't know whether or not Journey will change the direction of the band or not, but if they choose to do so they can, these guys are capable of playing any style there is.

As big of a Steve Perry fan as I am I just don't think he has much of anything left in him as a singer. He sounds terrible on parts of I stand Alone, and he sounds really week on that David Pack song. And unfortunately I have never heard him singing Don't Stop Believin at the Worl Series last year, but I have heard that he sounded horrible.

Even if Perry still sounded as great as he did in the 1980's he would never make it thru an entire tour with Journey because he would pull his old crap again.

I think they have 3 choices, #1 get Kevin Chalfant or someone else who can pull off Perry's vocals to become the new singer, #2 change the direction of the band and continue on with JSS, or #3 wait for Steve Augeri to be fully recovered in a year or two.

[Rockindeano]

Neal should listen to what is proposed here and follow it to the letter or we're doomed </sarcasm off>

Sarcasm? Hell, why not listen to us? Make this the first band that ever has a few fans for their advisors? I can guarantee you if I managed them, or say TNC, Big J, or even you, ace, they couldn't do worse than the shit who has "managed" them for 8 years.

We are a smarter group than those dickslops over at Granpa Irv's Place. How long can it take to learn how to sign contracts and negotiate arena deals? It's not like Gramps is bucking them for interviews, commercials, or even special spots on TV. he does nothing, jack, zip. This is one point I would like for someone to argue. I would love to hear a dissenting opinion.

[Rockindeano]

I think they have 3 choices, #1 get Kevin Chalfant or someone else who can pull off Perry's vocals to become the new singer, #2 change the direction of the band and continue on with JSS, or #3 wait for Steve Augeri to be fully recovered in a year or two.

Ok, breaking it down even further.

#1, Kevin Chafalnt. Dude can sing, but he has lost some on his fastball recently. Don't you think it odd that Neal and Friga keep overlooking him? He has had numerous chances and no bone.

#2, Changing the direction of the band means changing "Journey" and the fans would exit faster than a fart leaving my ass.

#3, Goddammit, Augeri is done. This is not even a debate.

[whocares]

...

3- Perry. This is the wild card. If there was a better time for the reunion, I haven't seen it. It is time for Perry to start practicing with some resolve, getting ready for next year, say March/April, for a money loaded, Big City, tour. When I say "big city" I mean for instance, Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco...not, Marysville, Sacramento, Mountain Winery, Paso Robles, Ventura, Redlands, Bakersfield or Indio for Christs sakes. fewer shows, top money, bigger venues.
...

Which is pretty much what I suggested earlier today. But I said 10 or so citied throught the US. bigger money than sticking to Cali.

Say 3 shows per city max, every other day. 10 week tour, so as not to have to worry abotu voices being too strained. but we know it's ain't gonna happen, or my names not Bob.

[The_Noble_Cause]

#1, Kevin Chafalnt. Dude can sing, but he has lost some on his fastball recently. Don't you think it odd that Neal and Friga keep overlooking him? He has had numerous chances and no bone.

Herbie always pushed for KC.
He sung the praises of KC as recently as his last interview with classicrockrevisited.com
Someone should ask him what Journey should do (now that they are obviously at a crossroads).
Would Herb still say "get KC"?

[Journey/Survivor]

I think they have 3 choices, #1 get Kevin Chalfant or someone else who can pull off Perry's vocals to become the new singer, #2 change the direction of the band and continue on with JSS, or #3 wait for Steve Augeri to be fully recovered in a year or two.

Ok, breaking it down even further.

#1, Kevin Chafalnt. Dude can sing, but he has lost some on his fastball recently. Don't you think it odd that Neal and Friga keep overlooking him? He has had numerous chances and no bone.

#2, Changing the direstion of the band means changing "Journey" and the fans would exit faster than a robber leaving a bank.

#3, Goddammit, Augeri is done. This is not even a debate.

The band was stupid to overlook Chalfant!

Are you saying that Augeri is done because you feel there is no way that the band would ever take him back, or is it that you feel "sure" that he will never be able to sing again?

Because I've got news for you, it's probable that he will be able to sing again someday! I've seen many singers who were singing just as high of range songs as Augeri mess up their throat BIG TIME and yet still recover eventually and sound as good as ever.

[fred_journeyman]

Herbie always pushed for KC.
He sung the praises of KC as recently as his last interview with classicrockrevisited.com
Someone should ask him what Journey should do (now that they are obviously at a crossroads).
Would Herb still say "get KC"?

I thought Herbie kind of ragged on Chalfant as well in the infamous interview. Didn't he refer to him as a "poodle" or something? I don't remember and I don't feel like looking it up right now.

[The_Noble_Cause]

I thought Herbie kind of ragged on Chalfant as well in the infamous interview.

You're right. In the notorious "Castles Burning" interview, Herbie extols Kevin's talent while at the same time slamming him, calling him a "problem child."
However, Herbie gave a more recent interview and has nothing but accolades to say about Kevin.
He even says that if the band had recruited a real singer like Kevin he would've re-managed them.


Fred, u did say u were out of the loop for some time.
Perhaps you missed this recent Herbie interview (came out only a few months ago).

[Argus]

I thought Herbie kind of ragged on Chalfant as well in the infamous interview.

You're right. In the notorious "Castles Burning" interview, Herbie extols Kevin's talent while at the same time slamming him, calling him a "problem child."
However, Herbie gave a more recent interview and has nothing but accolades to say about Kevin.
He even says that if the band had recruited a real singer like Kevin he would've re-managed them.


Fred, u did say u were out of the loop for some time.
Perhaps you missed this recent Herbie interview (came out only a few months ago).

Since HH had his surgery, he's prolly not going to want to add any more stress to his life.

[The_Noble_Cause]

Since HH had his surgery, he's prolly not going to want to add any more stress to his life.

I'm not promoting the idea of Herbie re-managing them.
I'm promoting the idea of someone reaching out and asking Herbie what the band should do (as they are obviously at a crossroads).

[Blueskies]

Herbie always pushed for KC.
He sung the praises of KC as recently as his last interview with classicrockrevisited.com
Someone should ask him what Journey should do (now that they are obviously at a crossroads).
Would Herb still say "get KC"?

I thought Herbie kind of ragged on Chalfant as well in the infamous interview. Didn't he refer to him as a "poodle" or something? I don't remember and I don't feel like looking it up right now.

no thats what he said about fleischman

[The_Noble_Cause]

no thats what he said about fleischman

The "poodle" comment was directed towards Fleishman, however, Herbie pisses all over pretty much everyone in the "Castles Burning" interview (including Chalfant).
.

[Rockindeano]

Are you saying that Augeri is done because you feel there is no way that the band would ever take him back, or is it that you feel "sure" that he will never be able to sing again?

Both. You don't want me to explain my thoughts on his departure. Trust me, the Board is better off. I do have my thoughts on it. I don't think Andrew would want this taking over the board, and I am not going to even try to push it here.

Because I've got news for you, it's probable that he will be able to sing again someday! I've seen many singers who were singing just as high of range songs as Augeri mess up their throat BIG TIME and yet still recover eventually and sound as good as ever.

What you fail to understand, is the statement the band made isn't real, dude. It was made up. His voice was starting to sound like crap 2 years ago, and finally just flatout failed at the end of 2004. There is no surgery that heals what he has. If there is, I am going tomorrow for Steve Perry surgery so I can have his pipes and sing for this band.

[Rock Fn]

[quote="fred_journeyman"]First off, I'm simply offering opinions here... a "what if" scenario, or how I see things, from my limited vantage point. Nothing more. It doesn't really matter

I think it's probably time for the band to have a full reunion (not only with Perry, but with Smith on drums as well), do a final tour of say, three to six months, then place Journey on the shelf. With the way things are going these days, this would probably be the best proposition for the band and they could go out somewhat resting on their laurels.

.[/quote

Why did you change your mind?


fred_journeyman
Personal Assistant

Joined: 18 Feb 2003
Posts: 555



This is a funny thread. I for one, would not be interested in seeing Journey with Perry as frontman. THAT would be pathetic. I mean, Steve WAS one of rock's premiere singers in his day. Now? He's in his fifties, hasn't sung a note professionally for years (the humming he did on a few releases over the years doesn't count) and he has shown absolutely no interest in singing publically. To go to a concert where songs would be sung two full steps below their original key by a lead vocalist whose chops are nowhere near what they used to be is not exciting at all. THAT would be embarrassing and pathetic. It's obvious that Steve Perry has a good deal more sense than that, to even want to attempt it.

I remember shortly before Elvis died, he came to the town I lived in, in New York state. I talked with one of the women I worked with who saw him and asked if the concert was good. Her comment? Elvis was better than ever! Right. This is the guy who would lay down on stage, forget the words to songs, had pretty much lost his high range and sounded more like a warbler than the Elvis that we all once knew. I'm glad she enjoyed the concert though, but "better than ever"? Not even close.

If Perry came back to Journey, which I cannot imagine at all, that would signal the end of Journey for me. If it DID happen, it would seem as though they WERE only doing it for the money. Now, it simply seems as though they prefer to keep Journey's music alive.

I have to absolutely disagree that the current state of Journey is "pathetic." Far from it. They are consumate professionals and I think Soto's inclusion in the band gives it that much more of a musical edge.

Embarrassed by Journey? If they're are embarrassing, then stop listening to them and just put on the music when Steve Perry fronted. I mean, it's not as if you hold stock in Journey's corporation and the risk is that your stock is going to bottom out.

I'm not interested in a Journey with Perry and it would seem that neither is Steve Perry.

By the way, there used to be a Steve Perry forum on Andrew's space here. What happened to it?

[StyxCollector]

Because I've got news for you, it's probable that he will be able to sing again someday! I've seen many singers who were singing just as high of range songs as Augeri mess up their throat BIG TIME and yet still recover eventually and sound as good as ever.

What you fail to understand, is the statement the band made isn't real, dude. It was made up. His voice was starting to sound like crap 2 years ago, and finally just flatout failed at the end of 2004. There is no surgery that heals what he has. If there is, I am going tomorrow for Steve Perry surgery so I can have his pipes and sing for this band.

Will he be able to sing someday? Sure. Where he was? No. I agree with Deano here. You don't thrash your voice that much and have it come back. When Elton went under the knife in 1990ish, his voice changed after. Rod Stewart's did as well. Same tonality, same person, but different.

Dennis DeYoung can hit a lot of what he used to, but he has his moments and when he knows he won't hit it, he doesn't go there. He's also not singing 200 shows a year, either.

[Blueskies]

no thats what he said about fleischman

The "poodle" comment was directed towards Fleishman, however, Herbie pisses all over pretty much everyone in the "Castles Burning" interview (including Chalfant).
.

Your right. Herbie is one pissed off dude against everyone. I would love to know the whole truth from someone impartual.

[Rockindeano]

.

Your right. Herbie is one pissed off dude against everyone. I would love to know the whole truth from someone impartual.[/quote]

What do you want to know? Feel free to ask.

[Aaron]

I'll bite on that on. Please dial us in on why Herbie didn't fire Perry in '83 or '86 and get on with it with someone else? I take it Herbie was booted by Perry during the reunion BS in 96. What was the real story there? And, what is Herbie saying now about the current situation?

L8r

.

Your right. Herbie is one pissed off dude against everyone. I would love to know the whole truth from someone impartial.

What do you want to know? Feel free to ask.[/quote]

[DarwinNebraska]

Deano...

Just because you THINK you know something, doesn't make it true.

Get back on your meds, now.

[Rockindeano]

Deano...

Just because you THINK you know something, doesn't make it true.

Get back on your meds, now.

Ok.

As for you running your incessant trap, why not try to contribute to the fucking post? You never have. All you do is bitch.

[Rockindeano]

Please dial us in on why Herbie didn't fire Perry in '83 or '86 and get on with it with someone else? I take it Herbie was booted by Perry during the reunion BS in 96. What was the real story there? And, what is Herbie saying now about the current situation?

Seriously, this is a good question. You should copy and paste it and start a new thread. I have my thoughts but hardly do I know for sure. This would be a great topic.

[Aaron]

Done and thanks

Please dial us in on why Herbie didn't fire Perry in '83 or '86 and get on with it with someone else? I take it Herbie was booted by Perry during the reunion BS in 96. What was the real story there? And, what is Herbie saying now about the current situation?

Seriously, this is a good question. You should copy and paste it and start a new thread. I have my thoughts but hardly do I know for sure. This would be a great topic.