MR

Folks,

I just got in from the Indy show and thought I'd drop down a few thoughts on the show.

First, I was a little shocked but Journey was clearly the opening act for Def Leppard. Def Leppard had a two story stage with stairs on either end. I don't see Journey a lesser band to Def Leppard but tonight it was clear who the headliner was and it wasn't Journey. Journey's stage area was very small as compared to Def Leppard. This really begs the question who the hell is managing this band anyhow? If Irving is still managing he needs cut loose now.

The vib of the show was ok. The crowd was pretty good most of the time but didn't seem to be into Journey as much. When Def Leppard took the stage the crowd energy increased significantly. I didn't go to see Def Leppard but it was clear who the crowd was more into tonight. As a side note, Elliot sounded pretty good but he can't cover the high stuff he used to. There were a lot of backing vocals to cover the holes in the upper range for Joe.

Now back to Journey. As predicted, Neil starts off the the Star Spangled Banner as the opener and its quite good. Soto comes on stage and they roll into Stone in Love. I said I would withhold judgment on Soto until I heard him myself first hand. Jeff has great stage presence and was clearly a leader on stage. He had decent moves and worked the crowd well. However, his vocals do not fit Journey IMHO. He put on a good show but clearly struggled on a few songs missing the high notes. He did a great job on stage but the vocals just weren't there for me. The band also looked to be on autopilot. They looked to be going through the motions. Dean sang lead on three songs that were the highlight of the evening.

The bottom line for the evening was that Journey sucked. I've seen every tour since 1998 and this show by far was the worst. On a positive note, I did cash in my $1100 VIP tickets for $110 lawn seats! So where do the band go from here?

I don't see the band going forward in its current incarnation. Based on the crowd reaction I think Journey will struggle with JSS on lead vocals. It just doesn't sound like Journey. I see four options:

1. Cash it in, hang up the gloves and call it a day
2. Pull Dean from behind the drum kit, put him out front, and hire a new drummer
3. Bring in someone who can cover Journey material like HUGO - preferred path
4. Carry on like you are and drive Journey into the ground

Without changes I can see Journey playing county fairs next year. I was very disappointed with the show. As a long time Journey fan, next time, I'll drive to the east cost and catch Evolution unless changes are made.

L8r,

Aaron

OUCH

Aaron wrote:Folks,

I just got in from the Indy show and thought I'd drop down a few thoughts on the show.

First, I was a little shocked but Journey was clearly the opening act for Def Leppard. Def Leppard had a two story stage with stairs on either end. I don't see Journey a lesser band to Def Leppard but tonight it was clear who the headliner was and it wasn't Journey. Journey's stage area was very small as compared to Def Leppard. This really begs the question who the hell is managing this band anyhow? If Irving is still managing he needs cut loose now.

The vib of the show was ok. The crowd was pretty good most of the time but didn't seem to be into Journey as much. When Def Leppard took the stage the crowd energy increased significantly. I didn't go to see Def Leppard but it was clear who the crowd was more into tonight. As a side note, Elliot sounded pretty good but he can't cover the high stuff he used to. There were a lot of backing vocals to cover the holes in the upper range for Joe.

Now back to Journey. As predicted, Neil starts off the the Star Spangled Banner as the opener and its quite good. Soto comes on stage and they roll into Stone in Love. I said I would withhold judgment on Soto until I heard him myself first hand. Jeff has great stage presence and was clearly a leader on stage. He had decent moves and worked the crowd well. However, his vocals do not fit Journey IMHO. He put on a good show but clearly struggled on a few songs missing the high notes. He did a great job on stage but the vocals just weren't there for me. The band also looked to be on autopilot. They looked to be going through the motions. Dean sang lead on three songs that were the highlight of the evening.

The bottom line for the evening was that Journey sucked. I've seen every tour since 1998 and this show by far was the worst. On a positive note, I did cash in my $1100 VIP tickets for $110 lawn seats! So where do the band go from here?

I don't see the band going forward in its current incarnation. Based on the crowd reaction I think Journey will struggle with JSS on lead vocals. It just doesn't sound like Journey. I see four options:

1. Cash it in, hang up the gloves and call it a day
2. Pull Dean from behind the drum kit, put him out front, and hire a new drummer
3. Bring in someone who can cover Journey material like HUGO - preferred path
4. Carry on like you are and drive Journey into the ground

Without changes I can see Journey playing county fairs next year. I was very disappointed with the show. As a long time Journey fan, next time, I'll drive to the east cost and catch Evolution unless changes are made.

L8r,

Aaron

Aaron wrote:First, I was a little shocked but Journey was clearly the opening act for Def Leppard. Def Leppard had a two story stage with stairs on either end. I don't see Journey a lesser band to Def Leppard but tonight it was clear who the headliner was and it wasn't Journey. Journey's stage area was very small as compared to Def Leppard. This really begs the question who the hell is managing this band anyhow? If Irving is still managing he needs cut loose now.

I didn't stick around for Def Leppard. I really like quite a few of their tunes but I have no desire to see them live, so we left after the Journey show. Anyway, I'm not sure why the heck Journey is not the headliner on this tour, at least here in the States. Their recent tours have done quite well, considering their popularity is nowhere near what it was in the 80s and they're certainly more popular here now than Leppard is, in my opinion.

However, his vocals do not fit Journey IMHO. He put on a good show but clearly struggled on a few songs missing the high notes. He did a great job on stage but the vocals just weren't there for me.

I thought he pulled it off quite well, but was still certainly much better on the harder stuff. I could do without "Ask the Lonely" or "Lights". I thought he did a much better job on some of the tougher ones to sing like "Escape" and some of the higher parts in "Don't Stop Believin'". Those sounded better to me than the boots I heard from the Atlanta show.

The band also looked to be on autopilot. They looked to be going through the motions. Dean sang lead on three songs that were the highlight of the evening.

Gotta disagree here. I was only 9 rows back from the stage and got a good view the entire evening of Jonathan, Ross, and of course Jeff and all three of them seemed to be pretty into it from what I could tell. Ross was his usual self with all of the facial expressions and Jonathan even seemed more into it than what has been reported recently (he smiled quite often, especially early on in the set).

Anyway, the highlights for me were "Escape" and "Who's Crying Now". Those were probably the best performances of those two songs of the shows I've been to. Deen did a great job on that one (and the others he sang, for that matter).

The bottom line for the evening was that Journey sucked. I've seen every tour since 1998 and this show by far was the worst.

Disagreed again. It wasn't by far the worst, performance-wise. As far as the length of the show and song selection, I would agree with that. I would've preferred to hear something from "Arrival", "Red 13", and "Generations" but if you're only going to be playing for 80 minutes, I guess you do what you have to do.

ConversationTopic. I also did not stay for DL out of protest for Joe's stupidity regards to this site. I also did not see them toping Journey even on a night that especially in hindsight Steve was getting by on junkballs, no fastball at all.
Of course DL is gonna close every time, they're the higher profile act right now. I still thinks it's great for the band to be part of this "Double Billing" b/c it's definately doing huge biz.
Still can't believe the epitaphs are being penned for JSS at this stage of his tenure. People wanted a change, wanted less Perry esque vocals, they get it, and now it's holy shit!!! This SUCKS doesn't sound like Journey...

Exactly, Red. When faced with the alternatives, I think Soto has saved the tour AND the band.
The alternatives were:
a. Continue rolling tape, let more magazines, newspapers, radio hosts continue making them into a big joke and polish off what is left of their legacy.

b. Leave the tour, lose money, OWE money(?)

c. Hire another sound-a-like who never played with any of them, and bumble through the rest of the tour.

d. Hire another sound-a-like they've considered in the past and get slammed because this guy doesn't sound enough like Perry to please people, either. Two months on the road with this schedule, and he is toast, too.

I'd say those alternatives make Soto's credentials look pretty damn great. They aren't gonna get another Perry, so everybody needs to just get over it and move on. They sure as hell didn't have one in Augeri or they wouldn't be in the mess they're in now. If we are interested in hearing any decent new music, you better support Soto, because without him all we'll get is more Butterfly shit and Cain's wedding songs. Cain will still be the balancing factor, if all three of them write TOGETHER, so it won't be Jourkiss (SS +Journey).

Journey is clearly the opening act, with their minimal stage set-up, so they are damn lucky to have signed on to this tour in the first place. They are not considered big anymore, even in the context of 80's rock, without the original singer in place. Deny it all you want, but a sound-a-like isn't going to help them. Soto is their only chance for a new sound and direction, probably playing to European audiences.

Red13JoePa wrote: People wanted a change, wanted less Perry esque vocals, they get it, and now it's holy shit!!! This SUCKS doesn't sound like Journey...

Ha. So true. Be careful what you wish for, indeed. Can't have it both ways.

EightyRock wrote:Exactly, Red. When faced with the alternatives, I think Soto has saved the tour AND the band.
The alternatives were:
a. Continue rolling tape, let more magazines, newspapers, radio hosts continue making them into a big joke and polish off what is left of their legacy.

b. Leave the tour, lose money, OWE money(?)

c. Hire another sound-a-like who never played with any of them, and bumble through the rest of the tour.

d. Hire another sound-a-like they've considered in the past and get slammed because this guy doesn't sound enough like Perry to please people, either. Two months on the road with this schedule, and he is toast, too.

I'd say those alternatives make Soto's credentials look pretty damn great. They aren't gonna get another Perry, so everybody needs to just get over it and move on. They sure as hell didn't have one in Augeri or they wouldn't be in the mess they're in now. If we are interested in hearing any decent new music, you better support Soto, because without him all we'll get is more Butterfly shit and Cain's wedding songs. Cain will still be the balancing factor, if all three of them write TOGETHER, so it won't be Jourkiss (SS +Journey).

Journey is clearly the opening act, with their minimal stage set-up, so they are damn lucky to have signed on to this tour in the first place. They are not considered big anymore, even in the context of 80's rock, without the original singer in place. Deny it all you want, but a sound-a-like isn't going to help them. Soto is their only chance for a new sound and direction, probably playing to European audiences.

Great post. I've said similar here. JSS has a following in Europe. Journey wants to break Europe and play there again next summer. Coincidence? I think not.

Augeri did a good job for most of his tenure but he doesn't have the cojones of a Perry or JSS to stand up to Jon or Neal and get his voice heard. If he did, maybe you'd hear some Tall Stories influenced stuff. I mean, the guy was in a band before Journey, right?

I don't think JSS needs Journey, but he could certainly flourish if allowed to be himself. It's clear Neal respects JSS, which can only lead to good things.

Will it sound like "classic" Journey? To some degree. You have JC, NS, and RV. But realistically, it's going to be a new direction which if he sticks around, could be interesting.

Let me get this straight. You think Journey should get new management because they landed them the openeing slot on a tour where many shows have sold out in the tens of thousands + ? Not many opening bands get 80 minutes of stage time period.

Mmmm-kay.



As for JSS, he said to wait until they get a couple weeks off in August so he can rest his voice. I am willing to wait and see what happens after that before making a final judgement.

Wally, wake up.

Irving Azoff has done NOTHING for Journey, period. I could have gotten them opening act status for DL myself, for less than half of the money Azoff gets.

Name one fucking thing Azoff has done for this band. ONE stinking thing. I'll wait.

Rockn'deano wrote:Wally, wake up.

Irving Azoff has done NOTHING for Journey, period. I could have gotten them opening act status for DL myself, for less than half of the money Azoff gets.

Name one fucking thing Azoff has done for this band. ONE stinking thing. I'll wait.

..................................

He must have had something to do with getting DL to tour with them which gave Journey a reason to be this Summer. Look at all the extra fans the DL band brought to the concerts.

Rockn'deano wrote:Wally, wake up.

Irving Azoff has done NOTHING for Journey, period. I could have gotten them opening act status for DL myself, for less than half of the money Azoff gets.

Name one fucking thing Azoff has done for this band. ONE stinking thing. I'll wait.

ill give it a shot
1. recorded trial by fire

1.5 single nominated for a grammy

2. got perry back , perry left

3 hired augeri, most fans took to him pretty good

3.5 got remember me on the amagadden soundtrack

4. toured 6 of last 8 years in auditoriums and sheds

5. recorded arrival, divided some fans , seems most fans loved it, on its way to selling thousands more

5.5 arrival dvd released, fans loved it ,, probably sold more than cd, no extras, no interviews, back stage, nothing

5.6 lost contract with sony

6. released red 13, 1 fan like it

7. released generations- fans split again, 4 classics, a few fillers

8 allowed live questionable performances to continue

9. refused to release a statement about performances

10. opened for def leppard on a 20 x 10 stage ,


just rambling, i always liked herbie

Dude, I was getting pissed as I read your response until I saw, "Got opening slot for DL on a 20 x 10 stage.

Sarcasm.

heardonthestreet wrote:

Rockn'deano wrote:Wally, wake up.

Irving Azoff has done NOTHING for Journey, period. I could have gotten them opening act status for DL myself, for less than half of the money Azoff gets.

Name one fucking thing Azoff has done for this band. ONE stinking thing. I'll wait.

..................................

He must have had something to do with getting DL to tour with them which gave Journey a reason to be this Summer. Look at all the extra fans the DL band brought to the concerts.

hots ,, big 10-4 on that part,, i was glad to see them myself 2x in the past 8 years,,

Rockn'deano wrote:Dude, I was getting pissed as I read your response until I saw, "Got opening slot for DL on a 20 x 10 stage.

Sarcasm.

hehehehehehehehehhehe

I'm glad someone else here agrees, after hearing for themselves, that this tour sucks ( except you said Journey sucks, I would'nt go that far ) JSS just does not fit unless they change the sound, but that would be SS. I feel the band is on a downward spiral, especially with more bad press to come. Just think; how bad would this be if they were out there alone? I think DL are saving their collective asses, because most people at shows are casual fans and would not be 2 happy with Jrny alone.

They just need to get through the tour without any more crap i would imagine! When this tour ends the band will probably have huge sigh of relief,as the past months must have been the worst in there lives as musicians. Jeff has got them out of trouble but the reputation is pretty low since the tape-gate saga. Cannot see a path forward for them myself,a shame as they finally hit Europe amid all the rumours and problems.
If Perry could somehow manage a farewell tour with the band that would be the only way they could bow out gracefully,as i do fear they are coming to the end of their road as a band unit.I also hope i am wrong about all this.

One of the problems is that The shit will hit the fan again after this tour is over. It still is about this being a so called "co-headlining" tour, which it obviously is not, unless you feel that phrase should be changed to same time amount, but not rotating who closes each night. It's Journey as an opening act, period.

No, Azoff and his crew haven't done much of anything decent for the band, in fact they helped drive it into the ground, along with the membners of the band who helped "cover up" things recently. It stopped being about the fans, and is now strictly for the band.

Now, I said above that the shit will hit the fan again, and that's because of what they said in the "official announcement" about Augerri, possibly making it back. Lots of people are divided on whether he's coming back or not, I don't personally feel he is, but some still are holding their breath, and that's not a pretty picture. There's nothing good to come out of any more announcements about Augeri, leaving for good, or coming back. He's already in the lose-lose position. Frankly, I feel he's already lost, for better or worse.

I'm one who thinks that IF Jeff wnats to stick it out through another tour and CD possibly, then I want it done the right way for Jeff. Does it mean I'll go back to a concert again, if they do it the right way for Jeff? Only time will tell. And I've got a lot of time on my hands...

whocares wrote:One of the problems is that The shit will hit the fan again after this tour is over. It still is about this being a so called "co-headlining" tour, which it obviously is not, unless you feel that phrase should be changed to same time amount, but not rotating who closes each night. It's Journey as an opening act, period.

No, Azoff and his crew haven't done much of anything decent for the band, in fact they helped drive it into the ground, along with the membners of the band who helped "cover up" things recently. It stopped being about the fans, and is now strictly for the band.

Now, I said above that the shit will hit the fan again, and that's because of what they said in the "official announcement" about Augerri, possibly making it back. Lots of people are divided on whether he's coming back or not, I don't personally feel he is, but some still are holding their breath, and that's not a pretty picture. There's nothing good to come out of any more announcements about Augeri, leaving for good, or coming back. He's already in the lose-lose position. Frankly, I feel he's already lost, for better or worse.

I'm one who thinks that IF Jeff wnats to stick it out through another tour and CD possibly, then I want it done the right way for Jeff. Does it mean I'll go back to a concert again, if they do it the right way for Jeff? Only time will tell. And I've got a lot of time on my hands...

funny ,, kiss/aerosmith was a co-headlining tour were kiss opened every show, but it was great, both played 1.5 hours plus encores and both had "huge" stages,, no one was disapointed with the co thing,, i dont remember kiss playing in the daylight either,,, something about the dark that helps with the excitement ,, journey is playing , the sun is shinning, and folks are piddling,, what do i know, ive been posting too much!!

Naw larry, I just don't feel it's right, as I grew up with co-headling meaning switching off between opening and closing. IT's obviously a new day and age now, but when your band is opening every night, you aren't a co-headliner, even if you do play the same amount of time. That's just MY take on it.

whocares wrote:Naw larry, I just don't feel it's right, as I grew up with co-headling meaning switching off between opening and closing. IT's obviously a new day and age now, but when your band is opening every night, you aren't a co-headliner, even if you do play the same amount of time. That's just MY take on it.

Right on, right on

whocares wrote:Naw larry, I just don't feel it's right, as I grew up with co-headling meaning switching off between opening and closing. IT's obviously a new day and age now, but when your band is opening every night, you aren't a co-headliner, even if you do play the same amount of time. That's just MY take on it.

ur right,, i was trying to sweeten it up,, kiss opened for aerosmith, ugh , just like journey is opening up for dl,,, why is that term even used? motley is "co - headlining" with aerosmith soon ,, they are no different , opening band,,

I respect your opinion, but totally disagree...

thevoicelover wrote:JSS just does not fit unless they change the sound, but that would be SS...

A perfect fit, to me.

I feel the band is on a downward spiral...

???

especially with more bad press to come...

The majority of reviews I've read had been quite positive.

The review for St. Louis, from the local paper, was mostly about Def Leppard, mentioning briefly JSS taking over lead vox, but mostly how great Deen sung 2 songs. If this tour is a co-headlining tour, then someone needs to tell the newspapers around the country that are making it out like it's Journey opening up for Def. oh wait...

Red13JoePa wrote:Still can't believe the epitaphs are being penned for JSS at this stage of his tenure. People wanted a change, wanted less Perry esque vocals, they get it, and now it's holy shit!!! This SUCKS doesn't sound like Journey...

Journey can NEVER win. It's no wonder they ignore their fans and their website... people just bitch about them all the time.

journeygal wrote:I respect your opinion, but totally disagree...

thevoicelover wrote:JSS just does not fit unless they change the sound, but that would be SS...

A perfect fit, to me.

I feel the band is on a downward spiral...

???

especially with more bad press to come...

The majority of reviews I've read had been quite positive.

We can agree to disagree on JSS. My views are based on 2 concerts I went to myself. The bad press that I was referring to here are Deano's hints about the other shoe dropping next month.

thevoicelover wrote:

journeygal wrote:I respect your opinion, but totally disagree...

thevoicelover wrote:JSS just does not fit unless they change the sound, but that would be SS...

A perfect fit, to me.

I feel the band is on a downward spiral...

???

especially with more bad press to come...

The majority of reviews I've read had been quite positive.

We can agree to disagree on JSS. My views are based on 2 concerts I went to myself. The bad press that I was referring to here are Deano's hints about the other shoe dropping next month.

It's cool. I'm just going by a few boots, reviews & Jeff's past work. Hopefully in September I'll get another NY show.

Rockn'deano wrote:Name one fucking thing Azoff has done for this band. ONE stinking thing. I'll wait.

Arrival, the 2001 DVD, the DTV show, and almost ALL of the publicity during that time.

My wife and I were also at the indy show...It started out well enough. We thought JSS started off really well in "Stone In Love".
"Those crazy nights I do remember in my youth/I do recall those were the best times most of all" Then came the line... "In the heat with a blue jean girl" I looked at my wife and she looked at me something like this We then busted out laughing....I was kinda glad to hear them play some different stuff like "Chain Reaction". I really tried to pay attention to his vocals and managed to do so on 4 or 5 songs. All of which he pretty much mangled...Then I quit paying attention...We also did a Journey to DL swag count from our position on the lawn and figured there were about 5 DL shirts/hats, to every 1 of Journey. Journey was definitely lucky to have their 10 x 20 stage available to them. Unfortunately I didn't think they did much to win any new fans.
J. Cain also looked very unhappy onstage. The only way I could describe it is the way my Raiders look in the 4th quarter trailing 41-3. Waiting for the clock to hit 00:00. Does anyone know if he even wanted JSS as the singer? I know he an Schon were pretty tight. JSS and Schon looked to get on pretty well. Journey needs Kevin Chalfant....NOW!

RaiderFan wrote:Journey needs Kevin Chalfant....NOW!

Yeah, if "now" was 1996, I'd be in complete agreement.
Can Kev still even "bring it"?
The guy is a vocal maestro, but let's face it, he's no spring chicken.
Could he endure the rigors of non-stop touring?
He even once said in an interview (paraphrasing here) that his voice still sounds so great because the genre is on life support and doesn't provide him with an active touring schedule.

RaiderFan wrote:My wife and I were also at the indy show...It started out well enough. We thought JSS started off really well in "Stone In Love".
"Those crazy nights I do remember in my youth/I do recall those were the best times most of all" Then came the line... "In the heat with a blue jean girl" I looked at my wife and she looked at me something like this We then busted out laughing....I was kinda glad to hear them play some different stuff like "Chain Reaction". I really tried to pay attention to his vocals and managed to do so on 4 or 5 songs. All of which he pretty much mangled...Then I quit paying attention...We also did a Journey to DL swag count from our position on the lawn and figured there were about 5 DL shirts/hats, to every 1 of Journey. Journey was definitely lucky to have their 10 x 20 stage available to them. Unfortunately I didn't think they did much to win any new fans.
J. Cain also looked very unhappy onstage. The only way I could describe it is the way my Raiders look in the 4th quarter trailing 41-3. Waiting for the clock to hit 00:00. Does anyone know if he even wanted JSS as the singer? I know he an Schon were pretty tight. JSS and Schon looked to get on pretty well. Journey needs Kevin Chalfant....NOW!

RaiderFan... I'm not a fan of your review

Everyone is certainly entitled to their own opinion, though...