MR

Tribute bands show us that, even though they didn't WRITE the music, others CAN play like Neal, Jon, Smitty, and Ross.

However, NO ONE has been able to replicate THE VOICE of Steve Perry. Even Hugo sounds more like Augeri than Perry. The only person I have heard who comes close is some skinny little guy who I forget the name of. I heard a recording of him doing Loving You Is Easy (I think) and he was great!

So, and NO disrespect for Neal and the other musicians, it really IS the voice that makes the difference.

However, with that said something was missing on ROR without Ross and Smitty, so that contradicts everything I just said, right?


Hey, I said this was a discussion



.

I can hear a stampede of Loons heading this way...

Other musicians may be able to play the notes and make the song sound right, but listening to Perry's solo tour -- you will definitely miss Neal IF you are a fan of the band and not just the singer. I think the casual concert goers wouldn't care (like they don't care now about JSS), but the real Journey fan would have just as hard of a time losing Neal as they did losing Perry.

I dunno... ever since this whole Augeri situation started, I've really been missing Perry.

knox wrote:Tribute bands show us that, even though they didn't WRITE the music, others CAN play like Neal, Jon, Smitty, and Ross.

However, NO ONE has been able to replicate THE VOICE of Steve Perry. Even Hugo sounds more like Augeri than Perry. The only person I have heard who comes close is some skinny little guy who I forget the name of. I heard a recording of him doing Loving You Is Easy (I think) and he was great!

So, and NO disrespect for Neal and the other musicians, it really IS the voice that makes the difference.

Knox, have you heard any of Jeremey's stuff? Not trying to be argumentative, just my thoughts back on the first time I heard him was coming down the street into a club and could not see them yet, and I would have bet a year's pay that they had Journey jammin' on the sound system. Then when we got inside the club, it was Frontiers doing a sound check. It was at that moment, that I knew what I had missed by never being able to see Journey with Perry.

Deb

Perrylover wrote:Knox, have you heard any of Jeremey's stuff? Not trying to be argumentative, just my thoughts back on the first time I heard him was coming down the street into a club and could not see them yet, and I would have bet a year's pay that they had Journey jammin' on the sound system. Then when we got inside the club, it was Frontiers doing a sound check. It was at that moment, that I knew what I had missed by never being able to see Journey with Perry.

Wow, that's high praise. Jeremey will love that!

NealIsGod wrote:Wow, that's high praise. Jeremey will love that!

LOL Naw, he won't think anything about me saying stuff like that, I've been telling him that kind of stuff for the last 3 1/2 years! That was the first time I saw them, and they just keep getting better!

Deb

Yes...the Voice makes all the difference. If you mapped out Journey's career in a graph it would start low....then with Perry's arrival it the line would shoot to the top of the grid....and with his departure it would shoot back down again.

And I'm not just talking about record sales, tour income, use of limos and helicopters. The quality of the songs, the production, the authenticity of the music are other criteria where the Perry years are far, far superior to anything the band have produced without him.

Sure...a tiny handful of die-hards might take offence to all this...but I reckon about 95% of Journey fans wouldn't disagree.

As for ROR....well, no disrespect to Smith and Valory...but Perry made the right decision. It was 1986 and Journey needed a modern, contemporary sound. This wasn't the time for throwback, 70s rock - so the simple drumming, the heavy reliance on keyboards and the glorious voice high in the mix made total sense the radio stations and the market at the time.

Let's face it...every major rock band in the mid-80s did much the same thing. Take Queen... Heart... Foreigner...John Waite...Don Henley....all of these rock/AOR acts went for a smooth, slightly synthetic production.

Smith just wasn't cut out for mid-80s rock - whereas say Roger Taylor was happy to adapt. So let's not keep portraying Smith as a victim of the megalomania of Perry.

Anyway...just my opinion.

NealIsGod wrote:I can hear a stampede of Loons heading this way...

....and we've arrived!

ROR is probably my least favorite perry era album. This was probably the worst decision perry ever made, IMO. When is it right to just fire 2 members of your band because you think you know what is best?

MATTHEW wrote:As for ROR....well, no disrespect to Smith and Valory...but Perry made the right decision. It was 1986 and Journey needed a modern, contemporary sound. This wasn't the time for throwback, 70s rock - so the simple drumming, the heavy reliance on keyboards and the glorious voice high in the mix made total sense the radio stations and the market at the time.

Barb wrote:ROR is probably my least favorite perry era album. This was probably the worst decision perry ever made, IMO. When is it right to just fire 2 members of your band because you think you know what is best?

MATTHEW wrote:As for ROR....well, no disrespect to Smith and Valory...but Perry made the right decision. It was 1986 and Journey needed a modern, contemporary sound. This wasn't the time for throwback, 70s rock - so the simple drumming, the heavy reliance on keyboards and the glorious voice high in the mix made total sense the radio stations and the market at the time.

Yeah, pretty shitty. Great bands don't change with the wind.

Barb wrote:ROR is probably my least favorite perry era album. This was probably the worst decision perry ever made, IMO. When is it right to just fire 2 members of your band because you think you know what is best?

MATTHEW wrote:As for ROR....well, no disrespect to Smith and Valory...but Perry made the right decision. It was 1986 and Journey needed a modern, contemporary sound. This wasn't the time for throwback, 70s rock - so the simple drumming, the heavy reliance on keyboards and the glorious voice high in the mix made total sense the radio stations and the market at the time.

Well, Schon and Cain were in on the decision too...and perhaps they trusted Perry's instincts by this point...given that - as Schon himself has said - Perry "brought the success to the band".

NealIsGod wrote:

Barb wrote:ROR is probably my least favorite perry era album. This was probably the worst decision perry ever made, IMO. When is it right to just fire 2 members of your band because you think you know what is best?

MATTHEW wrote:As for ROR....well, no disrespect to Smith and Valory...but Perry made the right decision. It was 1986 and Journey needed a modern, contemporary sound. This wasn't the time for throwback, 70s rock - so the simple drumming, the heavy reliance on keyboards and the glorious voice high in the mix made total sense the radio stations and the market at the time.

Yeah, pretty shitty. Great bands don't change with the wind.

No - but great bands do release varied and surprising albums - and change direction. Genesis are a good example of this.

It's Journey's lack of courage and imagination since 1998 which partly explain the rut they're in. Let's hope JSS will shake things up and they'll release an album which might generate some fresh ideas and controversy.

It was wrong of all of them. Just like it was wrong of ALL of them to go along with Augeri lip synching.

MATTHEW wrote:Well, Schon and Cain were in on the decision too...and perhaps they trusted Perry's instincts by this point...given that - as Schon himself has said - Perry "brought the success to the band".

Perry even said, in hindsight, he made some decisions that he regreted - in regard to Smith and Valory on ROR. He didn't come right out and SAY it, but he alluded to it. I wish he would have just said "I screwed up, and I am sorry".


We don't get that from too many people these days, regardless of what business they are in.

Barb wrote:It was wrong of all of them. Just like it was wrong of ALL of them to go along with Augeri lip synching.

MATTHEW wrote:Well, Schon and Cain were in on the decision too...and perhaps they trusted Perry's instincts by this point...given that - as Schon himself has said - Perry "brought the success to the band".

It was wrong of them to hire Augeri in the first place in my opinion - but we can't expect to agree with every decision a band makes.

knox wrote:So, and NO disrespect for Neal and the other musicians, it really IS the voice that makes the difference.

However, with that said something was missing on ROR without Ross and Smitty, so that contradicts everything I just said, right?

Hey, I said this was a discussion

.

Not really a contradiction IMO.
Isn't it the blend of all of them together that created magic? That and that the 'planets were all aligned' during the years many of us refer to as the 'classic Journey line-up?' All of them together made a fine blend.
When they are not all together, they are still quality ingredients, but not quite the same as when they were together then.

Also the songs had a lot to do with it. When the Perry, Schon, Cain team were all in sync with each other, their songs were part of the magic mix.
Separate them and it's the same thing, still good without each other - but better together.

For example, some of Perry's solo stuff has some nice guitar on, but it's not Neal, is it?
It's hard to clearly explain what I feel but I hope I succeeded.

MATTHEW wrote:

Barb wrote:It was wrong of all of them. Just like it was wrong of ALL of them to go along with Augeri lip synching.

MATTHEW wrote:Well, Schon and Cain were in on the decision too...and perhaps they trusted Perry's instincts by this point...given that - as Schon himself has said - Perry "brought the success to the band".

It was wrong of them to hire Augeri in the first place in my opinion - but we can't expect to agree with every decision a band makes.

You obviously don't have any boots with Augeri from 98-2003. He fucking ruled.

knox wrote:Perry even said, in hindsight, he made some decisions that he regreted - in regard to Smith and Valory on ROR. He didn't come right out and SAY it, but he alluded to it. I wish he would have just said "I screwed up, and I am sorry".


We don't get that from too many people these days, regardless of what business they are in.

I thought he made it clear that he would have 'done things differently" in hindsight.

Anyway..what about poor old Dunbar? Anyone still upset he got fired 27 years ago?

Susie, you actually made a lot of sense, and I have to agree with your post.

NealIsGod wrote:

MATTHEW wrote:

Barb wrote:It was wrong of all of them. Just like it was wrong of ALL of them to go along with Augeri lip synching.

MATTHEW wrote:Well, Schon and Cain were in on the decision too...and perhaps they trusted Perry's instincts by this point...given that - as Schon himself has said - Perry "brought the success to the band".

It was wrong of them to hire Augeri in the first place in my opinion - but we can't expect to agree with every decision a band makes.

You obviously don't have any boots with Augeri from 98-2003. He fucking ruled.

No - I just have the studio albums....which have pretty lousy production so maybe they don't do the guy justice.

I'd be curious to hear the boots though...

I was listening to some with arrivalrules a few weeks ago and we were marveling at the job he did. Deserves way more credit than he gets, and I hate when people bash him.

SusieP wrote:

knox wrote:So, and NO disrespect for Neal and the other musicians, it really IS the voice that makes the difference.

However, with that said something was missing on ROR without Ross and Smitty, so that contradicts everything I just said, right?

Hey, I said this was a discussion

.

Not really a contradiction IMO.
Isn't it the blend of all of them together that created magic? That and that the 'planets were all aligned' during the years many of us refer to as the 'classic Journey line-up?' All of them together made a fine blend.
When they are not all together, they are still quality ingredients, but not quite the same as when they were together then.

Also the songs had a lot to do with it. When the Perry, Schon, Cain team were all in sync with each other, their songs were part of the magic mix.
Separate them and it's the same thing, still good without each other - but better together.

For example, some of Perry's solo stuff has some nice guitar on, but it's not Neal, is it?
It's hard to clearly explain what I feel but I hope I succeeded.

I know exactly what you mean - the Perry/Schon/Cain trio was unbeatable...and I definitely miss the other two whenever I listen to a Perry solo album.

Augeri may have been able to carry a tune a few years back, but I never really cared for his voice. To me, he always sounded hoarse, like he couldn't catch his breath and he was trying too hard. It just didn't seem natural.

My opinion only - not stating it as fact.

NealIsGod wrote:I was listening to some with arrivalrules a few weeks ago and we were marveling at the job he did. Deserves way more credit than he gets, and I hate when people bash him.

Oh...I'm not trying to "bash" the guy. I just didn't agree with the decision to hire him because I'd rather Journey tried to revinvent themselves and try to do something which represented a departure from the Perry era...rather than flogging it to death.

This is why - so far! - most Perry fans seem to accept the arrival of JSS. There's suddenly a possibility we can respect the band again for having the balls to move on. But we'll see, I guess.

knox wrote:Susie, you actually made a lot of sense, and I have to agree with your post.

Thanks.
If Perry hadn't met up and worked with Neal & Jon, how would his solo stuff have been received?
We just don't know. Hell, he may never have continued with his music after the death of his bandmate. Maybe his solo stuff would have failed (despite his fabulous voice) if it hadn't had the benefit of Journey as a launchpad. Who knows?

He was undoubtedly the singer who shared the most commercial success with Journey, but he cannot alone be credited with that success. Jon and Neal's collaboration with him on those popular songs and their virtuosity on their instruments contributed to the success, too. His voice complimented their work/talents and their work/talents complimented his voice. It is a magic circle. Pure magic.
I haven't commented on the drummers because I don't beleive they made any writing/composing contribution to the songs that made Journey great. Maybe I have got that wrong - if so, I apologise.
I have Perry's solo stuff. I like some of it - but I do miss Neal's guitar.

JSS is in a much better position than Augeri - And his acceptance will be easier I predict. It's much easier to be the replacement of the replacement than it is to be the replacement....If that makes sense...??

By the way, I also call bullshit on the whole point of the OP. Of course Perry's voice can't be replicated. It's an organic living one of a kind instrument, unlike a guitar rig that can be completely replicated right down to the brand of batteries in the wireless units. The real thing that can't be replicated here are the songs themselves, and by definition, the combination of magic that went into creating those songs.

Come on, Knox. You're going to dis Hugo and me, with all of the audio and video of our performances out there open for criticism, but you're going to say the "only person" to "come close" (?) is based on one audio clip of Jason Kelty's recorded 10 years ago?

knox wrote:Tribute bands show us that, even though they didn't WRITE the music, others CAN play like Neal, Jon, Smitty, and Ross.

However, NO ONE has been able to replicate THE VOICE of Steve Perry. Even Hugo sounds more like Augeri than Perry. The only person I have heard who comes close is some skinny little guy who I forget the name of. I heard a recording of him doing Loving You Is Easy (I think) and he was great!

So, and NO disrespect for Neal and the other musicians, it really IS the voice that makes the difference.

However, with that said something was missing on ROR without Ross and Smitty, so that contradicts everything I just said, right?


Hey, I said this was a discussion



.

I know I'm not the first to sing Jeremey's praises - no pun intended! But, he's the closest to Steve Perry that I've ever heard anyone get to. Well, if not, he's up there with guys like Kevin Chalfant. You should download some of J's stuff from his site. You'll be amazed by how much of Perry is in his voice.

Jeremey wrote:JSS is in a much better position than Augeri - And his acceptance will be easier I predict. It's much easier to be the replacement of the replacement than it is to be the replacement....If that makes sense...??

Yes...that's true...

I will not bash Augeri either. He had a fine voice. I use past tense in case his voice problems are permanent.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing, and maybe they shouldn't have chosen him because he was a Perry 'soundalike' - not my words, I'm just quoting many people on here. But they did choose him and he tried his best.

The comparisons between the two Steve's were inevitable. Had Augeri NOT been a soundalike, maybe that would have been better. You know, like Paul Rodgers and Queen. Many were doubtful, but I think most people were happy when they saw/heard him with them.

Maybe because JSS isn't really a 'soundalike' it will work better. Again, who knows?
It's a kind of 'they're damned if they do and damned if they don't' situation.
Some want a soundalike. Some don't. Some want the Greatest Hits all the time, some want some new energy & songs in a different style from the Perry era classics.

One thing is for sure, they can't please everybody.

NealIsGod wrote:You obviously don't have any boots with Augeri from 98-2003. He fucking ruled.

Um, not really. NIG, there is more I need to tell you; Much more than I have already. You can revise that to 99-2001.