MR

When someone like Steve Perry, Steve Augeri, and the likes, have a great voice, why do they not do all they can to take care of it. Both men mentioned wrecked their voices from too much touring. Heard Augeri smokes, don't know if that is true or not. Heard Perry had his own addictions in the past.
The reason I bring this up, I saw Dennis DeYoung last week. His voice is as good as, if not better now, than at his prime.
I know know in the case of Lou Gram why his voice went down hill, but my would someone shoot their own foot and stop killing their way of life.
Any thoughts-ERIC

Abitaman wrote:When someone like Steve Perry, Steve Augeri, and the likes, have a great voice, why do they not do all they can to take care of it. Both men mentioned wrecked their voices from too much touring. Heard Augeri smokes, don't know if that is true or not. Heard Perry had his own addictions in the past.
The reason I bring this up, I saw Dennis DeYoung last week. His voice is as good as, if not better now, than at his prime.
I know know in the case of Lou Gram why his voice went down hill, but my would someone shoot their own foot and stop killing their way of life.
Any thoughts-ERIC

Yeah, I can't help but remember the famous Herbie advice to the band: "You gotta make hay while the sun shines."

In the music biz, everyone is so concerned that there is another band/genre right behind them, ready to knock them off their pedestal. Herbie felt they should tour relentlessly, make a new album every year or so, and worry about resting when they retire.

The voice is a funny thing...
There are times that it works great and times where the slightest condition will screw it up (Air conditioners KILL me!)

With Perry, it had to be too much touring. I'm sure that Perry and I KNOW Augeri did this, took care of their voices.
However, if you get into a fix where you HAVE to do the show if you're a bit under the weather because it's too late to cancel or whatever, that can have a compounding effect. You do that show and get messed up, then you have to do another with messed up voice, then you strain harder to get around the throat problem, then you damage yourself either permanently or for a while.
With nodes, you can't feel them. You just open up your mouth expecting to sing and it's shit. I've spoken with a few of Augeri's teachers and while I won't share what they said, they did mention that it was a hard gig for him. For Perry, it wasn't hard until too much touring made him have to struggle more to hit the notes (My speculation folks). Once you start singing harder, you're damaging yourself. Supposedly, there are ways a singer can sing high notes where it won't damage the voice, but it will still be powerful. I'm still looking for the magic secret and I'm 43. If this were the case, you'd never hear hoarse Perrys, Augeris, Sottos, or anyone else.

I think that you have to do all you can to take care of your voice. Whether that means no talking, warming up more or less, or whatever, the singer has to find the formula for themselves. They also have to be singing as correctly as possible. I have also heard of perry's addiction to cola. Not sure if that's true, BUT IF IT IS TRUE, kiss the voice goodbye and he's the biggest dumbfu** in the world to waste that talent.

Thought the same thing. After seeing the dates for the Evolution tour 79 in the re-issued CD, they played almost every single day from April 12 to September 2nd. How could that NOT affect your voice!

strungout wrote:Thought the same thing. After seeing the dates for the Evolution tour 79 in the re-issued CD, they played almost every single day from April 12 to September 2nd. How could that NOT affect your voice!

I was just going to mention that. Look at the Escape tour. It was ridiculous. For all the negative shit Herbie Herbert said about Steve Perry I offer you this. I think Herbert was wrong, VERY wrong on one count. While he helped create and I know loved Journey, the touring schedule makes me think that 1) he didn't feel Journey had staying power, 2) as band manager he failed to take care of Perry's voice or 3) he didn't realize what the constant touring was doing to his voice. At any rate, he deserves some of the blame for the change in Perry's voice. I think Perry did an incredible job on Frontiers, in that he recognized how his voice changed and understood the music had to change too. From 1979 to the mid 80's Steve Perry was as smart a man as there was in the business. He was quite simply the best at what he did....hands down.

To answer the original question now. I feel that we often take advantage of God given abilities. Since they're ours we don't realize how lucky we are at times. Sure Perry did some drugs and probably other things that don't help his voice, but when you're on top of the world and the money is rolling in, you feel invincible. I'm just thankful he gave us what he did for as long as he did, and I'm VERY confident that there is some more to come quite soon.

All I have to say on this is that Herbie was hired to
do a job.......was it his job to protect the bands talents?
In this I mean make sure they weren't straining themselves.
I have no clue.

And was it the Musicians jobs to say fuck you I won't shred my voice
or my life for 6 years of fantabulous fame?
Again I have no clue.
All I know is that....
The time in which Perry abused all that was
in him I thoroughly enjoyed, thank you can I have another?

Moon Beam wrote:All I have to say on this is that Herbie was hired to
do a job.......was it his job to protect the bands talents?
In this I mean make sure they weren't straining themselves.
I have no clue.

And was it the Musicians jobs to say fuck you I won't shred my voice
or my life for 6 years of fantabulous fame?
Again I have no clue.
All I know is that....
The time in which Perry abused all that was
in him I thoroughly enjoyed, thank you can I have another?

I hear ya. It just pisses me off when I hear Herbert with his bullshit ranting: " I wouldn't piss down Steve Perry's throat if his heart were on fire." I would've found this a bit more sincere if he said that in the mid 80's. But he sure as shit kept his mouth shut when the money was was rolling in. Just an example of sour grapes on Herbert's part. And I'm not saying Perry was a saint either.
I'm just tired of hearing everyone bad mouth him 20 years later when at the time they didn't say a fuckin' word.

I believe I read some interviews where Perry alluded to the fact that he did party with "coke", but left it alone after things took off with Journey. In fact he did say he wouldn't speak until performance time which caused friction with the other guys. He even talked about a glycerin mix he would get from the drug store to keep the vocal chords moist and how he preferred staying in older hotel rooms versus the upscale because of the A/C.

I've seen Aretha Franklin perform a couple of times indoors. NO A/C allowed. We were sweating a lot, as was she! But she sure can SING so it was well worth it!!!

Italia1986 wrote:I believe I read some interviews where Perry alluded to the fact that he did party with "coke", but left it alone after things took off with Journey. In fact he did say he wouldn't speak until performance time which caused friction with the other guys. He even talked about a glycerin mix he would get from the drug store to keep the vocal chords moist and how he preferred staying in older hotel rooms versus the upscale because of the A/C.

I've seen Aretha Franklin perform a couple of times indoors. NO A/C allowed. We were sweating a lot, as was she! But she sure can SING so it was well worth it!!!

No one can touch Reetha,and I'm sure that A/C has something to do with
it as I have seen hubby suffer tirelessly because of my pansy ars,
He has went into work with a full running nose and eyes closed shut
and sent home from work because of air being to close in his proximity.
I'm just saying.......

Saint John wrote: Just an example of sour grapes on Herbert's part. And I'm not saying Perry was a saint either.
I'm just tired of hearing everyone bad mouth him 20 years later when at the time they didn't say a fuckin' word.

Maybe Herbie got slapped with a gag order all those years? Perry had no excuse for all the tours that he cut short, for whatever selfish reason. He was also afraid of "germs" and would stay away from fans. You don't see other singers staying away from fans because they're afraid of "germs."

As for staying in older hotels, I don't buy it. He could have stayed in a first rate hotel, and turned off the AC in his room, which is what he probably did.

Herbie stated in interviews he was never under a gag order. Herbie doesn't seem to have a problem speaking his mind!. If you have never been a vocalist, never fronted a band as successful as Journey how can you judge the kind of pressure Perry was under?

No one involved in the Journey Perry era was paid to be a saint. That was Mother Theresa's gig.

Can we stop bashing EVERYONE once and for all. Water under the bridge, ALREADY. None of us walked in their shoes, none of us were privy to ALL the facts to speak about the Big Picture. We speak from selective heresay. Let's stop throwing stones, the breakup happened almost ten years ago.

Perry, Schon and Cain created inspired music together and Perry performed those songs to perfection.

That's a fact. Let's celebrate that and leave the rest of the blah, blah, blah behind.

yak wrote:

Saint John wrote: Just an example of sour grapes on Herbert's part. And I'm not saying Perry was a saint either.
I'm just tired of hearing everyone bad mouth him 20 years later when at the time they didn't say a fuckin' word.

Maybe Herbie got slapped with a gag order all those years? Perry had no excuse for all the tours that he cut short, for whatever selfish reason. He was also afraid of "germs" and would stay away from fans. You don't see other singers staying away from fans because they're afraid of "germs."

As for staying in older hotels, I don't buy it. He could have stayed in a first rate hotel, and turned off the AC in his room, which is what he probably did.

I've never heard of a gag order involving Herbert. In fact, he's been on record saying he was the only one smart enough not to sign it. I've never heard of your "germs" reference. As I said before, Perry was no angel. The only beef I have with him is the aborted Trial By Fire tour, the rest are OK with me. They toured relentlessly in the early 80's and that can only pose long-term threats to one individual...the lead singer. If he felt he wasn't 100% or there was a threat to his voice, I have no problem with him shutting it down......something Augeri should have thought of. I think his voice may be beyond repair. Perry's voice was/is his livelihood so I'll never point a finger IF the reason is legit.

Saint John wrote:
I've never heard of your "germs" reference. As I said before, Perry was no angel. The only beef I have with him is the aborted Trial By Fire tour, the rest are OK with me.

Perry himself stated it while out on his cut-short FTLOSM tour. It was in his SPIN newsletter. He also cut the ROR tour short. He walked away the last night, after their last performance, while Jon and Neal stayed and signed autographs. I agree he was/is no angel.

That's a fact. Let's celebrate that and leave the rest of the blah, blah, blah behind

So your point is you think Perry is not a saint. He didn't sign autographs ( one sided heresay).
He didn't like germs, okay? Gee, I know quite a few people who don't like them.

This all equates to = you don't like Perry.

Point taken. Different strokes for different folks.

I remember Steve P saying in an interview once that he had to be especially careful of meet and greets because if he caught a cold or a virus it would affect his voice. To me that's not the same as being "afraid of germs". If Journey were on tour and their lead singer caught a cold or virus from a fan, it could mean having to cancel 1 or more shows. Unfortunately a singer can't perform when he has a cold like someone who plays an "external" instrument.

Abitaman wrote:When someone like Steve Perry, Steve Augeri, and the likes, have a great voice, why do they not do all they can to take care of it. Both men mentioned wrecked their voices from too much touring. Heard Augeri smokes, don't know if that is true or not. Heard Perry had his own addictions in the past.
The reason I bring this up, I saw Dennis DeYoung last week. His voice is as good as, if not better now, than at his prime.
I know know in the case of Lou Gram why his voice went down hill, but my would someone shoot their own foot and stop killing their way of life.
Any thoughts-ERIC

In the case of Perry the band toured a hell of a lot and learning how to take care of your voice was not such a well known subject then, Perry did the best he could for as long as he could i feel. In the case of Augeri he joined Journey in his later years(37?) and was always singing/straining out of his range to replicate Perry's vocals as best he could. Kevin Chalfont said he felt they should have played down a step for Steve.A so it was not such hard work for him.Also Journey's main income is from touring,hit singles and records making big money are a thing of the past for the band.So touring is were the money is and you have to do a lot to make a lot of money.
In the case of Dennis Young he had Tommy and JY singing as well so this took some of the strain of him live,maybe thats why his voice is still very good.
Lets hope JSS does not get run into the ground and Dean helps out a lot live still for future Journey shows.
As i said in another post i feel Steve .A will return to singing but in a more comfortable key and most certainly not with Journey...Tall Stories maybe?

bionic wrote:As i said in another post i feel Steve .A will return to singing but in a more comfortable key and most certainly not with Journey...Tall Stories maybe?

I hope Augeri isn't out of Journey, but if he is, Tall Stories was good cd. The sample from the unreleased sounds just as goo-ERIC

You have to think about this though...
Herbie HAD to cash in while the cashing was good. He HAD to break Journey to the masses (Infinity-Departure). Now, if Perry had not done those many nights in a row up until that point, he wouldn't know that he was going to be in trouble vocally until it was too late (until the tour was well under way). Now, it could also be that his voice changed a bit as he got older and it couldn't take the constant use as he aged. I'm not sure how old Steve was at the end of the Escape tour, but age can affect it. Also, with all that touring and interviewing and press and radio, etc. etc. etc. his voice never got to rest. During the earlier tours, those other demands weren't as high. With Escape, everyone wanted a piece of them.

Add booze, smoking (I think Perry smoked!?!?!?! ), coke then you're going to have problems. Not to mention, add all those incredible rangy songs.
I HOPE to God that Perry is getting with a vocal coach to get his chords back in shape. It COULD happen. It's possible that with the proper excercises, he can remove the roughness of his voice and gain back his lost range. However, it would take a LOT of work and a desire to do that. I hear from Perry how much he "Thinks about Touring" "Really misses it" , etc. but I think he'd be more 'out and about' if he were trying to make a comeback. Maybe that's what we're starting to see now. But to save that voice, the desire has to be huge because of the work it would take.

The guy has the best vocal "feel" of any singer I know other than Sam Cooke. Jesus Steve, lower the keys of the songs and move ahead. It ain't a crime to lower the keys especially if that 'feel' is still there. Listen to the Bill Graham tribute stuff... the feel that is in his voice is great. The lower keys were not a big deal.

Perry being a germaphobe? Goddam right. He SHOULD be. That's his fricking pay check! He SHOULD'VE been like that. People are so insensitive and just think about meeting their idol that they'd show up sick and not give a crap as long as they got what they wanted. I'm a singer and I'm a germ FREAK!

Regarding Augeri- He was CONSTANTLY working on his voice and doing what he could to keep it healthy. Read those interviews out there and you'll see that it was a constant focus for him. I also hope Augeri returns. I like the guy, like his Journey and TS stuff. Regarding the tapes, for me (being a singer) I can see how that might've looked like the only way out for him. Some people here want to crucify the guy. I just don't feel that way. Other singers out there have done the same thing and still have great careers. Madonna. Aerosmith. to name two that I know.

Perrylover wrote:I remember Steve P saying in an interview once that he had to be especially careful of meet and greets because if he caught a cold or a virus it would affect his voice. To me that's not the same as being "afraid of germs". If Journey were on tour and their lead singer caught a cold or virus from a fan, it could mean having to cancel 1 or more shows. Unfortunately a singer can't perform when he has a cold like someone who plays an "external" instrument.

I have always been surprised more lead singers aren't afraid of catching colds, viruses, etc. while on tour. Shaking hands, handling pens, hugging people for pictures, etc. It only takes one to get you sick for several days.

No one can touch Reetha,and I'm sure that A/C has something to do with
it as I have seen hubby suffer tirelessly because of my pansy ars...

Aretha has a "no air conditioner" claus in her contracts. When filming the VH1 Divas show, she was singing, and in the middle of a song
said "I told you no air conditioners" or something similar and walked off.
VH1 didn't follow her contract rider. Madonna has one in her contracts too.
It sucks, but the voice is a PHYSICAL thing that is totally affected by environmental issues.
Lots of air conditioning makes it impossible to sing high notes.

It's good to hear from someone who is a vocalist. Those of us who don't sing for a living have little understanding of the voice as an instrument. One thing I found amusing in one of SP's early interviews was that he couldn't join the Muscians Union, at least at that time, the voice wasn't considered an instrument. Instead he had to join AFTRA, the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists.

Isn't that why it's difficult for most vocalists to sing first thing in the morning, the voice is "cold"?

Italia1986 wrote:It's good to hear from someone who is a vocalist. Those of us who don't sing for a living have little understanding of the voice as an instrument. One thing I found amusing in one of SP's early interviews was that he couldn't join the Muscians Union, at least at that time, the voice wasn't considered an instrument. Instead he had to join AFTRA, the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists.

Isn't that why it's difficult for most vocalists to sing first thing in the morning, the voice is "cold"?

As a few of you know, I sing for my living also.
I am a hypochondriac when it comes to germs.
I avoid people with coughs and colds. I don't get paid if I can't sing, so I protect my voice like crazy. Many people may think I go to the extreme to protect my voice - but, let 'em. I can't phone in sick and receive wages if I can't sing. If I can't sing, I'm buggered. So is the band I play in. Their livelihood depends on my lead vocal.
And a nasty bug can take ages to get out of your system.
Some bugs don't go onto the larynx etc and you can still sing without causing damage, but if the bug does hit your larynx then its a nightmare for singers.
And as someone said earlier, if you do have a slight bug but you can still sing, your voice may be strained because of your singing 'through' the cold, and it may take longer to shift the bug than if you had cancelled.

I inhale steam, I rest my voice between gigs. I do not smoke, drink or take drugs.
On the day of a performance, I sip room temperature water all day. No Hot drinks or ice or cold drinks before a performance. And i try not to talk to people much. I try to avoid second hand smoke, but that is almost impossible.

Extreme temperatures can make your vocal folds either expand or tighten - either can affect your voice. So room temperature water is the only way to go.

After a nights singing the voice is a little frog like in the morning until you have rehydrated your throat etc.
It is hard to sing early in the morning, yes.

Musicians can buy new guitar strings or new drum skins or a new sax reed, a singer only has one set of vocal folds/cords.

And as far as avoiding 'fans' goes, if I get so much as a sniffle, I cram as much raw garlic down me (its excellent for killing bugs) that noboby would want to come close!

If Perry kept himself away from people to avoid catching anything, I can well understand why.
My biggest crowd has been a 2000 seat venue.
He would have disappointed a hell of a lot more people than that if he'd had to cancel every time he caught something.
So I can understand his behaviour, if it is true.

Robin Zander & Ronnie James Dio are both smokers. I have no idea how they still sing so well, other than their tour schedules are not as brutal as Journey's have been.

arrivalrules wrote:Robin Zander & Ronnie James Dio are both smokers. I have no idea how they still sing so well, other than their tour schedules are not as brutal as Journey's have been.

Brutal is a good way to describe it.

I think 3-4 gigs a week is plenty for a lead singer.
Anything else is going to take its toll especially if the venue is smoky.

You know I was just thinking about an interview I saw with Celine Dion. Remember when she took a year or two off when she had her son and Renee was ill?
She said she enjoyed the freedom from thinking about the condition of her voice all the time. As I recall she said when she perfoms she has to limit her exposure to the "outside" world, like going to restaurants, movies things like that for the very same reasons. It wasn't her being a diva, she couldn't risk the same elements you spoke about, Susie.

It sounds like a very disciplined regiment. However, I guess the thrill and satisfaction of performing make it all worthwhile! If I had the gift of a beautiful voice, I think I'd have a go at it anyway!

brywool wrote:You have to think about this though...
Herbie HAD to cash in while the cashing was good. He HAD to break Journey to the masses (Infinity-Departure). Now, if Perry had not done those many nights in a row up until that point, he wouldn't know that he was going to be in trouble vocally until it was too late (until the tour was well under way).

I agree (and I think it's been stated by either Herbie or at least one of the guys in the band) that Herbie definitely had to push Journey out front and keep them playing concerts. I think it was Neal who stated that they played some gigs that they shouldn't have (the audiences didn't fit the style of music), but Herbie was doing his job as a manager.

I'm not sure how Steve Perry would NOT realize that the constant touring would take its toll on his voice, yet at the same time, what was he supposed to do about it, tell everyone that he wasn't going to tour? That wouldn't have worked.

When I was taking voice lessons from a gal in the Sacramento area, she had mentioned that HER vocal instructor, who was based in SF had provided lessons to Perry during his early years in Journey. Apparently, he was quite regimented with his routine in doing all that he could to keep his voice topnotch for as long as possible. The reality though, as has been mentioned, is that the constant touring and singing took his toll. Musicians normally get better as they play night after night. For vocalists, obviously the night after night routine can often strain the voice.

All this, plus age simply chips away at the voice. Getting older doesn't make the voice better.

brywool wrote:The guy has the best vocal "feel" of any singer I know other than Sam Cooke. Jesus Steve, lower the keys of the songs and move ahead. It ain't a crime to lower the keys especially if that 'feel' is still there. Listen to the Bill Graham tribute stuff... the feel that is in his voice is great. The lower keys were not a big deal.

Totally agree with ya there!

And if Perry used to be a germaphobe, he sure isn't anymore. When he met a dozen of us fans back in May, he didn't seem too concerned about germs.......with all the hugging and close-talking. The guy is a total class act, and a real sweetheart to boot.

strungout wrote:The guy is a total class act, and a real sweetheart to boot.

I guess you aren't 11 years old.

arrivalrules wrote:Robin Zander & Ronnie James Dio are both smokers. I have no idea how they still sing so well, other than their tour schedules are not as brutal as Journey's have been.

Dio says he is not a smoker. I just read an interview where he says "I just don't smoke and I try to look after myself..."

fred_journeyman wrote:

I'm not sure how Steve Perry would NOT realize that the constant touring would take its toll on his voice, yet at the same time, what was he supposed to do about it, tell everyone that he wasn't going to tour? That wouldn't have worked.

It can DEFINITELY happen. If you're used to 4 nights a week and your voice is fine, and then you start going to 6 nights a week or even 5, just adding that one or two more shows and taking the rest time out of your schedule can kill a voice.