MR

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:30 pm**

I think people are too harsh sometimes when discussing the merits or drawbacks of certain Journey songs. I think you should keep in mind that songwriters are artists and just as a painter chooses what their subject matter will be for a painting and how they want to portray it, a songwriter is doing the same. When painting a picture or writing a song, it comes from that artists heart and mind. They are thinking about their own experiences and feelings, drawing from it, so the message they portray in song paints a picture that is personal to them, coming from inside at the time. Then it's sometimes created and put out to share with the world. It's too easy to sit back in judgement of someone else's art, everyone seems to want to be a critic, yet don't create themselves. I think some respect should be afforded to the songwriter and musicians for the fact that the material is or was personal to them. Sure there are some songs I prefer to listen to than others, but I'm not going to sit around and armchair quarterback their decision to put it out there....that takes guts. I also won't condemn them for what they felt and expressed. I'll still listen and take in what the artist was trying to convey and I'll cherish the ones I love and give thanks that they were created and shared with us all. In the end there are really no bad songs....just some you don't like or can't relate to. It wasn't meant for you then.....move on to the ones that speak to you and enjoy the music.
Just my 2 cents.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:32 pm**

Excellent post. Bravo!

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:43 pm**

Can somebody say apostrophe??? :roll:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:44 pm**

Thank's Nora, I know you can relate.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:46 pm**

JGal wrote:Can somebody say apostrophe???

sorry...artist not an English major. Another critic! :roll:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:46 pm**

JGal wrote:Can somebody say apostrophe???

See, you're being a critic! :lol:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:46 pm**

TVL wrote:I think people are too harsh sometime's when discussing the merit's or drawback's of certain Journey song's. I think you should keep in mind that songwriter's are artist's and just as a painter choose's what their subject matter will be for a painting and how they want to portray it, a songwriter is doing the same. When painting a picture or writing a song, it come's from that artist's heart and mind. They are thinking about their own experience's and feeling's, drawing from it, so the message they portray in song paint's a picture that is personal to them, coming from inside at the time. Then it's sometime's created and put out to share with the world. It's too easy to sit back in judgement of someone else's art, everyone seem's to want to be a critic, yet don't create themselve's. I think some respect should be afforded to the songwriter and musician's for the fact that the material is or was personal to them. Sure there are some song's I prefer to listen to than other's, but I'm not going to sit around and armchair quarterback their decision to put it out there....that take's gut's. I also won't condemn them for what they felt and expressed. I'll still listen and take in what the artist was trying to convey and I'll cherish the one's I love and give thank's that they were created and shared with us all. In the end there are really no bad song's....just some you don't like or can't relate to. It wasn't meant for you then.....move on to the one's that speak to you and enjoy the music.
Just my 2 cent's.

Yes, art is something that comes from the heart of the artist. However, if they share it with the world at large, they shouldn't be thin-skinned enough to be offended if someone else doesn't like it and shares their opinion. The simple fact that it was shared to begin with begs the fact that others will offer their opinion.

I'll also disagree that there are no bad songs. Give me a break. Artists release half-hearted attempts at "art" all the time. They know it and often their fans know it, too, and respond accordingly.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:47 pm**

TVL wrote:I think people are too harsh sometime's when discussing the merit's or drawback's of certain Journey song's. I think you should keep in mind that songwriter's are artist's and just as a painter choose's what their subject matter will be for a painting and how they want to portray it, a songwriter is doing the same. When painting a picture or writing a song, it come's from that artist's heart and mind. They are thinking about their own experience's and feeling's, drawing from it, so the message they portray in song paint's a picture that is personal to them, coming from inside at the time. Then it's sometime's created and put out to share with the world. It's too easy to sit back in judgement of someone else's art, everyone seem's to want to be a critic, yet don't create themselve's. I think some respect should be afforded to the songwriter and musician's for the fact that the material is or was personal to them. Sure there are some song's I prefer to listen to than other's, but I'm not going to sit around and armchair quarterback their decision to put it out there....that take's gut's. I also won't condemn them for what they felt and expressed. I'll still listen and take in what the artist was trying to convey and I'll cherish the one's I love and give thank's that they were created and shared with us all. In the end there are really no bad song's....just some you don't like or can't relate to. It wasn't meant for you then.....move on to the one's that speak to you and enjoy the music.
Just my 2 cent's.

I think you described Perry-era Journey there. I liked Arrival though. More importantly, I respected it. To me, it seemed like there was a lot put into it. The creative process was there. I feel some of the album's passion. On the flip side, I rip Generations because to me, it seems absent of passion. I didn't need to be told Neal wasn't even there for most of the project, I could "feel" it. The album was empty to me. It lacked passion. It was a hodgepodge of great musicianship thrown together that for me, equalled shit. The album lacked chemistry and the final product screamed that to me. I reserve the right, as a paying customer, to review albums the way I hear them. THAT, is probably the greatest thing I can do for an artist. And that is to be honest.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:51 pm**

conversationpc wrote:
TVL wrote:I think people are too harsh sometime's when discussing the merit's or drawback's of certain Journey song's. I think you should keep in mind that songwriter's are artist's and just as a painter choose's what their subject matter will be for a painting and how they want to portray it, a songwriter is doing the same. When painting a picture or writing a song, it come's from that artist's heart and mind. They are thinking about their own experience's and feeling's, drawing from it, so the message they portray in song paint's a picture that is personal to them, coming from inside at the time. Then it's sometime's created and put out to share with the world. It's too easy to sit back in judgement of someone else's art, everyone seem's to want to be a critic, yet don't create themselve's. I think some respect should be afforded to the songwriter and musician's for the fact that the material is or was personal to them. Sure there are some song's I prefer to listen to than other's, but I'm not going to sit around and armchair quarterback their decision to put it out there....that take's gut's. I also won't condemn them for what they felt and expressed. I'll still listen and take in what the artist was trying to convey and I'll cherish the one's I love and give thank's that they were created and shared with us all. In the end there are really no bad song's....just some you don't like or can't relate to. It wasn't meant for you then.....move on to the one's that speak to you and enjoy the music.
Just my 2 cent's.

Yes, art is something that comes from the heart of the artist. However, if they share it with the world at large, they shouldn't be thin-skinned enough to be offended if someone else doesn't like it and shares their opinion. The simple fact that it was shared to begin with begs the fact that others will offer their opinion.

I'll also disagree that there are no bad songs. Give me a break. Artists release half-hearted attempts at "art" all the time. They know it and often their fans know it, too, and respond accordingly.

yes, I have to agree, some do. I was speaking from my own feeling's on the subject. I will not release or put something out there unless I have given it my best shot and am satisfied with it.....but that's me...yeah, some don't.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:54 pm**

TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:Can somebody say apostrophe???
sorry...artist not an English major. Another critic!

Not an English major either, just a high school graduate with a couple of years of college :lol:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 1:59 pm**

JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:Can somebody say apostrophe???
sorry...artist not an English major. Another critic!

Not an English major either, just a high school graduate with a couple of years of college

same here...believe it or not, I actually got an A in English! :lol:

any other criticism's?

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:00 pm**

TVL wrote:I think people are too harsh sometime's when discussing the merit's or drawback's of certain Journey song's. I think you should keep in mind that songwriter's are artist's and just as a painter choose's what their subject matter will be for a painting and how they want to portray it, a songwriter is doing the same. When painting a picture or writing a song, it come's from that artist's heart and mind. They are thinking about their own experience's and feeling's, drawing from it, so the message they portray in song paint's a picture that is personal to them, coming from inside at the time. Then it's sometime's created and put out to share with the world. It's too easy to sit back in judgement of someone else's art, everyone seem's to want to be a critic, yet don't create themselve's. I think some respect should be afforded to the songwriter and musician's for the fact that the material is or was personal to them. Sure there are some song's I prefer to listen to than other's, but I'm not going to sit around and armchair quarterback their decision to put it out there....that take's gut's. I also won't condemn them for what they felt and expressed. I'll still listen and take in what the artist was trying to convey and I'll cherish the one's I love and give thank's that they were created and shared with us all. In the end there are really no bad song's....just some you don't like or can't relate to. It wasn't meant for you then.....move on to the one's that speak to you and enjoy the music.
Just my 2 cent's.

Yeah, sometimes people get overly critical of artists in general, but the reality is that artists produce paintings, or songs, or books, or whatever and most of them want people to like and purchase them. In that case, while they might still be sharing their experiences, they ultimately want me to like their work enough to want to buy it. If I'm laying my money on the table, I have a right to be a critic. If they can't handle the criticism like they handle the praise, then they should find a new line of work, or simply create music/paintings/books for their own benefit.

If all they are doing is creating and sharing with the world as a gift, that's one thing, but if I'm expected to buy it, then I'm certainly going to look at it critically. Regarding respect, etc., too many artists are elevated to god-like status, which is absolute crap. Whoever decided that actors, songwriters, authors, sports celebs and the rest should get more money and perks than they know what to do with because of their position in life? Too many of them are afforded more respect than they deserve and these same people wind up thumbing their noses at the very people who helped get them where they are today.

You say there are no bad songs? You never heard the Bay City Rollers then. :lol:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:04 pm**

Hey, I can dig your response, Fred.....and ya got me on the Roller's! :lol:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:08 pm**

TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:Can somebody say apostrophe???
sorry...artist not an English major. Another critic!

Not an English major either, just a high school graduate with a couple of years of college
same here...believe it or not, I actually got an A in English! any other criticism's?

Nope, no other criticism's :lol:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:17 pm**

JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:Can somebody say apostrophe???
sorry...artist not an English major. Another critic!

Not an English major either, just a high school graduate with a couple of years of college
same here...believe it or not, I actually got an A in English! any other criticism's?
Nope, no other criticism's

Actually I don't thing the appostrophe is correct in "criticism's", since it means plural instead of ownership.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:22 pm**

RedWingFan wrote:
JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:Can somebody say apostrophe???
sorry...artist not an English major. Another critic!

Not an English major either, just a high school graduate with a couple of years of college
same here...believe it or not, I actually got an A in English! any other criticism's?
Nope, no other criticism's

Actually I don't thing the appostrophe is correct in "criticism's", since it means plural instead of ownership.

Watch it RWF - are you an English major???

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:23 pm**

JGal wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:
JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:Can somebody say apostrophe???
sorry...artist not an English major. Another critic!

Not an English major either, just a high school graduate with a couple of years of college
same here...believe it or not, I actually got an A in English! any other criticism's?
Nope, no other criticism's

Actually I don't thing the appostrophe is correct in "criticism's", since it means plural instead of ownership.
Watch it RWF - are you an English major???

No way, I majored in chicks!

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:24 pm**

TVL wrote:Hey, I can dig your response, Fred.....and ya got me on the Roller's!

I can appreciate where you're coming from too. Thanks for starting this thread. Maybe it'll get back on topic.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:34 pm**

Just speaking from an artist standpoint for a minute. The buying public has a right to complain about product, but I was speaking from where I'm coming from. I don't look at it as a "product" at the time of making a picture. If I did it would kill creativity and not be any good, imo. Inspiration has to come from something within you. If just selling a product and making money are the only factor's for production, then that can be seen and felt, and the end result is not good.....so I mis-spoke....there are plenty of bad song's out there......made for the wrong reason's.

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:36 pm**

RedWingFan wrote:No way, I majored in chicks!

Not chick's??? :lol:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:39 pm**

JGal wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:No way, I majored in chicks!
Not chick's???

now who's being obsessive?? :wink:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:40 pm**

TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:No way, I majored in chicks!
Not chick's???
now who's being obsessive??

Couldn't resist... this is too easy! :lol:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:43 pm**

JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:No way, I majored in chicks!
Not chick's???
now who's being obsessive??
Couldn't resist... this is too easy!

easily amused are we?.........subject matter not easy for ya? :lol:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:46 pm**

JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:No way, I majored in chicks!
Not chick's???
now who's being obsessive??
Couldn't resist... this is too easy!

No. Here are a couple of examples for you girls.

Those chicks have smokin' hot bodies!!!

That chick's implant just ruptured!!!

Get it now???

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:49 pm**

RedWingFan wrote:
JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:No way, I majored in chicks!
Not chick's???
now who's being obsessive??
Couldn't resist... this is too easy!

No. Here are a couple of examples for you girls.

Those chicks have smokin' hot bodies!!!

That chick's implant just ruptured!!!

Get it now???

Oh, I don't need the example...

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:57 pm**

JGal wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:
JGal wrote:
TVL wrote:
JGal wrote:
RedWingFan wrote:No way, I majored in chicks!
Not chick's???
now who's being obsessive??
Couldn't resist... this is too easy!

No. Here are a couple of examples for you girls.

Those chicks have smokin' hot bodies!!!

That chick's implant just ruptured!!!

Get it now???
Oh, I don't need the example...

no....she's the proper english police making sure this stay's off topic....

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 2:58 pm**

I gotta agree wth JourneyGal, all those apostrophes are distracting... I had to reread a couple of your sentences because they didn't make any sense...

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:05 pm**

fredinator wrote:I gotta agree wth JourneyGal, all those apostrophes are distracting... I had to reread a couple of your sentences because they didn't make any sense...

edited...ya happy now? Can ya wrap ur brain's around it?........larry doesn't receive this kind of criticism and look at his posts. geeezzz! :roll:

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:07 pm**

Larry isn't a pain in the ass... Oooops, my bad...

Posted: **Wed Nov 29, 2006 3:10 pm**

MR

Too Many Critics

Too Many Critics

Re: Too Many Critics

Re: Too Many Critics

Re: Too Many Critics

Re: Too Many Critics