MR

I just finished listening to the Perry interview tonight. Perry said that he objected to Schon doing his first solo record and communicated that to Herbie. From there Schon did a second record and then Steve P did "Street Talk." If that is how it went down, then Schon must be a dick. Thoughts?

Aaron wrote:I just finished listening to the Perry interview tonight. Perry said that he objected to Schon doing his first solo record and communicated that to Herbie. From there Schon did a second record and then Steve P did "Street Talk." If that is how it went down, then Schon must be a dick. Thoughts?

dude, this is all pretty much the standard he said/she said bullshit, we'll never really know what went down...

True enought mate, true enough. Just stating what Perry said ... and if true ...

Chevypv wrote:

Aaron wrote:I just finished listening to the Perry interview tonight. Perry said that he objected to Schon doing his first solo record and communicated that to Herbie. From there Schon did a second record and then Steve P did "Street Talk." If that is how it went down, then Schon must be a dick. Thoughts?

dude, this is all pretty much the standard he said/she said bullshit, we'll never really know what went down...

I KNOW what went down.

Neal is NOT a dick. Someone else is.

Fair enough Deano, clue us in then.

Rockin'Deano wrote:I KNOW what went down.

Neal is NOT a dick. Someone else is.

Aaron wrote:I just finished listening to the Perry interview tonight. Perry said that he objected to Schon doing his first solo record and communicated that to Herbie. From there Schon did a second record and then Steve P did "Street Talk." If that is how it went down, then Schon must be a dick. Thoughts?

No, because as Neal has emphasized repeatedly, what he was doing was nothing commerical or even in the same musical class as Journey. Perry's solo music, on the other hand,.....
Let's just say there's a reason many people mistake "Oh Sherrie" as a Journey song.

TNC,

I hear you bro. I just struggle when people compare "Oh Sherrie" to Journey. When the same singer is doing the gig its very hard to distinguish the difference. In my opinion, its a mistake on Perry's part as his voice will always be connected to Journey.

L8r bro,

Aaron

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Aaron wrote:I just finished listening to the Perry interview tonight. Perry said that he objected to Schon doing his first solo record and communicated that to Herbie. From there Schon did a second record and then Steve P did "Street Talk." If that is how it went down, then Schon must be a dick. Thoughts?

No, because as Neal has emphasized repeatedly, what he was doing was nothing commerical or even in the same musical class as Journey. Perry's solo music, on the other hand,.....
Let's just say there's a reason many people mistake "Oh Sherrie" as a Journey song.

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Aaron wrote:I just finished listening to the Perry interview tonight. Perry said that he objected to Schon doing his first solo record and communicated that to Herbie. From there Schon did a second record and then Steve P did "Street Talk." If that is how it went down, then Schon must be a dick. Thoughts?

No, because as Neal has emphasized repeatedly, what he was doing was nothing commerical or even in the same musical class as Journey.

That's because he couldn't even if he wanted to

Aaron wrote:I just finished listening to the Perry interview tonight. Perry said that he objected to Schon doing his first solo record and communicated that to Herbie. From there Schon did a second record and then Steve P did "Street Talk." If that is how it went down, then Schon must be a dick. Thoughts?

Perry himself said it in the BTM show. He didn't like Schon doing a solo record. Then another, so he did his own.

OF COURSE it'll sound pretty much like a Journey record, ANY "VOICE" of ANY band will put out a solo record that sounds like the band they were/are in. That's not likely to change.

As far as Schon, Here to Stay wasn't a HUG record, but Late Night was the closest to a commercial success for Schon, as I can think of.

I can see Neal going, "Look, I have all this material that for whatever reason is not Journey material, but I've worked really hard on it and I'd like to put it out. I'm not reaching for any sort commercial success and I'm not gonna tour behind it. I just think that these songs are too good to not let anyone hear them and have my hard work go to waste, so since I can't use Journey as an outlet for them, I'd like to put out a solo record".

It could have gone down waaay differently, but I think that's how I'd approach a solo album if I were in a band like Journey.

Whocares,

My point was that if Perry made it an issue that he wasn't comfortable with Neal doing a solo gig (like a married person having a mistress) and he brought the issue up to Neal as a problem. If Neal ignored the issue and did another record as Perry claims (I don't know the time line) then Neal is a dick in my opinion. If it was an issue and Neal ignored it then I have no sympathy for "it sound like Journey" belly aching for "Street Talk." Of course anything Perry does will be associated with Journey as he is the "sound" of the band.

L8r,

Aaron

whocares wrote:

Aaron wrote:I just finished listening to the Perry interview tonight. Perry said that he objected to Schon doing his first solo record and communicated that to Herbie. From there Schon did a second record and then Steve P did "Street Talk." If that is how it went down, then Schon must be a dick. Thoughts?

Perry himself said it in the BTM show. He didn't like Schon doing a solo record. Then another, so he did his own.

OF COURSE it'll sound pretty much like a Journey record, ANY "VOICE" of ANY band will put out a solo record that sounds like the band they were/are in. That's not likely to change.

As far as Schon, Here to Stay wasn't a HUG record, but Late Night was the closest to a commercial success for Schon, as I can think of.

I absolutely agree Aaron. No one will likely mistake a Neal Solo record or any musician for that matter, for sounding too much like that band they are/were in. The voice will always carry that distinction.

Yes, Neal comes off looking bad a lot, hell all he has to do sometimes is open his mouth, and that's all. Foot automatically goes in. It's the unfortunate part of having two BIG personalities clashing in a big time band like Journey is.

So Perry wasn't selling out to as big a crowd as he did with Journey, when he did his one and only solo tour. But he was selling out the smaller venues. WHY? Because people wanted to hear him sing HIS solo stuff AND the Journey music he made famous by singing. Not sure I could say that for Neal or Jon.

whocares wrote:I absolutely agree Aaron. No one will likely mistake a Neal Solo record or any musician for that matter, for sounding too much like that band they are/were in. The voice will always carry that distinction.

Yes, Neal comes off looking bad a lot, hell all he has to do sometimes is open his mouth, and that's all. Foot automatically goes in. It's the unfortunate part of having two BIG personalities clashing in a big time band like Journey is.

So Perry wasn't selling out to as big a crowd as he did with Journey, when he did his one and only solo tour. But he was selling out the smaller venues. WHY? Because people wanted to hear him sing HIS solo stuff AND the Journey music he made famous by singing. Not sure I could say that for Neal or Jon.

IMHO Neal could pull off a solo tour of fairly small venues a al Satriani. I would go for sure. Satch does the UK every couple of years and sells out 2000 seat halls every time. Neal has enough material.

It's kind of a joke that Schon uses the analogy that his solo projects were not commercial and completely different from Journey. The reason that he can classify the Hammer/Schon albums as non-commercial is only because they didn't sell well enough to be considered such.
The song "No More Lies" is a very straight-forward mainstream rock track. It was released as a single and they even did a video for it (why bother with a vid if your not looking for commercial appeal). Hell, he even did a Journey penned tune ("Self Defense") on the Schon/Hammer record, so how is that "completely different from Journey", Journey wrote it!?

Although Perry's voice will always bring the Journey comparisons, the overall sound of Street Talk was significantly different than any Journey album had sounded at that point. Was it the polar opposite of Journey? Absolutely not, but it featured Journey's voice and one of it's prominent songwriters, so how could it have been.

It could be argued that much of the music on the Schon/Hammer albums was closer to the style of Journey albums to that point than Street talk was. The big difference is that Neal's voice doesn't have the same appeal obviously.

Either way, if Street Talk had bombed, Neal never would have complained about the style of the record.

Aaron wrote:Whocares,

My point was that if Perry made it an issue that he wasn't comfortable with Neal doing a solo gig (like a married person having a mistress) and he brought the issue up to Neal as a problem. If Neal ignored the issue and did another record as Perry claims (I don't know the time line) then Neal is a dick in my opinion.

So Neal is a dick because he didn't do everything Perry wanted? You wanted the whole band to be held hostage by Perry even earlier than 1986-1996?

Johnny Mohawk wrote:It's kind of a joke that Schon uses the analogy that his solo projects were not commercial and completely different from Journey. The reason that he can classify the Hammer/Schon albums as non-commercial is only because they didn't sell well enough to be considered such.
The song "No More Lies" is a very straight-forward mainstream rock track. It was released as a single and they even did a video for it (why bother with a vid if your not looking for commercial appeal). Hell, he even did a Journey penned tune ("Self Defense") on the Schon/Hammer record, so how is that "completely different from Journey", Journey wrote it!?

Although Perry's voice will always bring the Journey comparisons, the overall sound of Street Talk was significantly different than any Journey album had sounded at that point. Was it the polar opposite of Journey? Absolutely not, but it featured Journey's voice and one of it's prominent songwriters, so how could it have been.

It could be argued that much of the music on the Schon/Hammer albums was closer to the style of Journey albums to that point than Street talk was. The big difference is that Neal's voice doesn't have the same appeal obviously.

Either way, if Street Talk had bombed, Neal never would have complained about the style of the record.

Good post...I totally agree...

Damn, I wish I could get an hour with Steve on the record...so many questions I'd love to ask

NealIsGod wrote:

Aaron wrote:Whocares,

My point was that if Perry made it an issue that he wasn't comfortable with Neal doing a solo gig (like a married person having a mistress) and he brought the issue up to Neal as a problem. If Neal ignored the issue and did another record as Perry claims (I don't know the time line) then Neal is a dick in my opinion.

So Neal is a dick because he didn't do everything Perry wanted? You wanted the whole band to be held hostage by Perry even earlier than 1986-1996?

Perry didn't hold Journey hostage. He was totally clear with Schon and Cain in '87 that he didn't want to continue...and Schon and Cain moved on and enjoyed their most successful period without Perry.

Guys, look at it this way. Schon was doing the fusion thing with Journey before Perry came on board. It's no secret at the time he would have preferred not to have gone with Perry and the "crooner" route, but to have continued on in that direction. Exit Gregg Rolie, and basically Neal's lost all connection with that outlet for his playing. Naturally he's going to want to spread his creative wings a bit. If Schon was supposed to have gone on tour with Journey and said "fuck this, I'm going to make a solo album," then yeah, Perry should have been pissed. But creative people need to keep that fire fueled, and to deny another musician that outlet doesn't seem too cool. Likewise for Neal - Sure "Oh Sherrie" sounded like a commercial Journey song, but the majority of the tracks on that record were R&B pop songs - Nothing that would have been mistaken for "Seperate Ways" "Don't Stop Believin'" or even "Faithfully.

Jeremey wrote:Guys, look at it this way. Schon was doing the fusion thing with Journey before Perry came on board. It's no secret at the time he would have preferred not to have gone with Perry and the "crooner" route, but to have continued on in that direction. Exit Gregg Rolie, and basically Neal's lost all connection with that outlet for his playing. Naturally he's going to want to spread his creative wings a bit. If Schon was supposed to have gone on tour with Journey and said "fuck this, I'm going to make a solo album," then yeah, Perry should have been pissed. But creative people need to keep that fire fueled, and to deny another musician that outlet doesn't seem too cool. Likewise for Neal - Sure "Oh Sherrie" sounded like a commercial Journey song, but the majority of the tracks on that record were R&B pop songs - Nothing that would have been mistaken for "Seperate Ways" "Don't Stop Believin'" or even "Faithfully.

Well said!

NIG,

That's not what I'm saying at all. I think the band was held hostage for a long time and finally got on with it. My point was that the band relationship isn't maintained when side projects cause issues within the band. To me its kind of like having a mistress on the side while being married. If the mistress does something extraordinary then you go with her. If not, then the mainstay is still around. Do you know what I mean? I'm wondering if this issue could have been the beginning of the end?

L8r,

Aaron

NealIsGod wrote:

Aaron wrote:Whocares,

My point was that if Perry made it an issue that he wasn't comfortable with Neal doing a solo gig (like a married person having a mistress) and he brought the issue up to Neal as a problem. If Neal ignored the issue and did another record as Perry claims (I don't know the time line) then Neal is a dick in my opinion.

So Neal is a dick because he didn't do everything Perry wanted? You wanted the whole band to be held hostage by Perry even earlier than 1986-1996?

I couldn't agree with you more ...

whocares wrote:I absolutely agree Aaron. No one will likely mistake a Neal Solo record or any musician for that matter, for sounding too much like that band they are/were in. The voice will always carry that distinction.

Yes, Neal comes off looking bad a lot, hell all he has to do sometimes is open his mouth, and that's all. Foot automatically goes in. It's the unfortunate part of having two BIG personalities clashing in a big time band like Journey is.

So Perry wasn't selling out to as big a crowd as he did with Journey, when he did his one and only solo tour. But he was selling out the smaller venues. WHY? Because people wanted to hear him sing HIS solo stuff AND the Journey music he made famous by singing. Not sure I could say that for Neal or Jon.

[size=12]I don't see a problem with band members doing solo projects. It's another creative outlet for very creative people. Can you imagine how frustrated Steve Smith would have been if he couldn't have done his Vital Information projects?

Johnny Mohawk wrote:It's kind of a joke that Schon uses the analogy that his solo projects were not commercial and completely different from Journey. The reason that he can classify the Hammer/Schon albums as non-commercial is only because they didn't sell well enough to be considered such.
The song "No More Lies" is a very straight-forward mainstream rock track. It was released as a single and they even did a video for it (why bother with a vid if your not looking for commercial appeal). Hell, he even did a Journey penned tune ("Self Defense") on the Schon/Hammer record, so how is that "completely different from Journey", Journey wrote it!?

Although Perry's voice will always bring the Journey comparisons, the overall sound of Street Talk was significantly different than any Journey album had sounded at that point. Was it the polar opposite of Journey? Absolutely not, but it featured Journey's voice and one of it's prominent songwriters, so how could it have been.

It could be argued that much of the music on the Schon/Hammer albums was closer to the style of Journey albums to that point than Street talk was. The big difference is that Neal's voice doesn't have the same appeal obviously.

Either way, if Street Talk had bombed, Neal never would have complained about the style of the record.

Schon's solo work was not competing with Journey for radio airplay -- Perry's solo stuff was. Neal's solo work is not the same genre as Journey, Perry's was.

Jeremey wrote:Guys, look at it this way. Schon was doing the fusion thing with Journey before Perry came on board. It's no secret at the time he would have preferred not to have gone with Perry and the "crooner" route, but to have continued on in that direction. Exit Gregg Rolie, and basically Neal's lost all connection with that outlet for his playing. Naturally he's going to want to spread his creative wings a bit. If Schon was supposed to have gone on tour with Journey and said "fuck this, I'm going to make a solo album," then yeah, Perry should have been pissed. But creative people need to keep that fire fueled, and to deny another musician that outlet doesn't seem too cool. Likewise for Neal - Sure "Oh Sherrie" sounded like a commercial Journey song, but the majority of the tracks on that record were R&B pop songs - Nothing that would have been mistaken for "Seperate Ways" "Don't Stop Believin'" or even "Faithfully.

Jeremy - was Schon and Hammer and HSAS really an outlet for his "fusion thing"?

Barb wrote:

Johnny Mohawk wrote:It's kind of a joke that Schon uses the analogy that his solo projects were not commercial and completely different from Journey. The reason that he can classify the Hammer/Schon albums as non-commercial is only because they didn't sell well enough to be considered such.
The song "No More Lies" is a very straight-forward mainstream rock track. It was released as a single and they even did a video for it (why bother with a vid if your not looking for commercial appeal). Hell, he even did a Journey penned tune ("Self Defense") on the Schon/Hammer record, so how is that "completely different from Journey", Journey wrote it!?

Although Perry's voice will always bring the Journey comparisons, the overall sound of Street Talk was significantly different than any Journey album had sounded at that point. Was it the polar opposite of Journey? Absolutely not, but it featured Journey's voice and one of it's prominent songwriters, so how could it have been.

It could be argued that much of the music on the Schon/Hammer albums was closer to the style of Journey albums to that point than Street talk was. The big difference is that Neal's voice doesn't have the same appeal obviously.

Either way, if Street Talk had bombed, Neal never would have complained about the style of the record.

Schon's solo work was not competing with Journey for radio airplay -- Perry's solo stuff was. Neal's solo work is not the same genre as Journey, Perry's was.

Then why did he record promotional videos for the Schon/Hammer singles (when Journey WEREN"T on a hiatus) - and team up with the distinctly un-leftfield Sammy Hagar in '84?

As JM said... Schon's side projects were mainly commercial in style...if not in results.

If you go by the release dates Neal did go solo before Steve.

If Steve would have just sung his songs using a large bath towel to muffle his voice Neal would have been happy. He asked Steve repeatedly to change his voice for Street Talk. Steve is such a prick he wouldnt do it.

All he had to do was muffled his voice & Neal would of been happy. What an ass for not doing it.

yogi wrote:If you go by the release dates Neal did go solo before Steve.

If Steve would have just sung his songs using a large bath towel to muffle his voice Neal would have been happy. He asked Steve repeatedly to change his voice for Street Talk. Steve is such a prick he wouldnt do it.

All he had to do was muffled his voice & Neal would of been happy. What an ass for not doing it.

Um, poster...how do you know these things....what's your inside scoop and source?

RedWingFan wrote:

The_Noble_Cause wrote:

Aaron wrote:I just finished listening to the Perry interview tonight. Perry said that he objected to Schon doing his first solo record and communicated that to Herbie. From there Schon did a second record and then Steve P did "Street Talk." If that is how it went down, then Schon must be a dick. Thoughts?

No, because as Neal has emphasized repeatedly, what he was doing was nothing commerical or even in the same musical class as Journey.

That's because he couldn't even if he wanted to

I disagree with you there. Neal is talented enough to do anything he wants to. I don't know Neal personally, but I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he would say that doing anything commercial outside of Journey would be selling out.

maverick218 wrote: I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he would say that doing anything commercial outside of Journey would be selling out.

Like Bad English?