MR

If Journey acheives at least some modest success with JSS at the helm.....and you guys get into material with him and have a blast at the shows.......AND.......Perry stays retired.....

Will your opinion of whether or not they should have waited for him change?

Eric wrote:If Journey acheives at least some modest success with JSS at the helm.....and you guys get into material with him and have a blast at the shows.......AND.......Perry stays retired.....

Will your opinion of whether or not they should have waited for him change?

Eric,

You may get a few responses here to that question.

I didn't know about the whole TBF thing until 2003, so I was surprised to see that Perry left...... and Neal, Jon, Ross, kept on. Within the past few years after getting more information and thinking....... I believe that everyone had to do what was good for everyone. I don't hold anything against Neal and the guys for continuing. I was never enamoured of Augeri's voice, but he did keep Journey going. Now JSS is in, and I can't think of anyone better for the job. He has really gotten me excited about Journey once again.

So for me, I rolled with the changes, but there will always be the Perryhead who will not accept this change.

Eric wrote:If Journey acheives at least some modest success with JSS at the helm.....and you guys get into material with him and have a blast at the shows.......AND.......Perry stays retired.....

Will your opinion of whether or not they should have waited for him change?

I think I just answered this in the other thread we were talking in, but I'll elaborate more here. I truly wish they had given Steve Perry more time. I think they rushed the decision. But I think there was a lot more going on between them than we will ever know about and I'm sure Steve wasn't one of those humble and sweet guys during all of it any more than Augeri has been. I never liked Augeri singing the hits even though I thought he sounded good on Arrival and Generations.

Am I glad they're still around to get Jeff on board? HELL YEAH!!!

ohsherrie wrote:

Eric wrote:If Journey acheives at least some modest success with JSS at the helm.....and you guys get into material with him and have a blast at the shows.......AND.......Perry stays retired.....

Will your opinion of whether or not they should have waited for him change?

I think I just answered this in the other thread we were talking in, but I'll elaborate more here. I truly wish they had given Steve Perry more time. I think they rushed the decision. But I think there was a lot more going on between them than we will ever know about and I'm sure Steve wasn't one of those humble and sweet guys during all of it any more than Augeri has been. I never liked Augeri singing the hits even though I thought he sounded good on Arrival and Generations.

Am I glad they're still around to get Jeff on board? HELL YEAH!!!

How much time do you ultimately wish they would have given him....and I take that to assume you think that had they waited that he wouldn't have stayed retired. These are of course all opinions, but I'm curious now that the PHeads and the Journey-no-matter-whats are on good speaking ground. This would have been a battle even a few years ago, but now we're all talking as good friends.

My two cents...

I don't think one has any affect on the other, kinda separate issues period.

1... I think JSS kicks ass. I'm uber happy the man is in Journey, and I'm thrilled to death Journey is fricking ALIVE again. In the direction they were going in.. I was about ready to throw up my hands and say fuck it. (actually, I had thrown up my hands and said fuck it).

2... do I wish Steve P had been given more time. Definitely. Do I think SP would have done it differently had he foreseen the outcome? yeah. Do I miss the shit outta that music? Definitely. Is that time over? YUP.

JSS is the perfect solution to the issue and is the right voice to bring Journey back to the limelight. I would definitely support this line up, much more than the SA version. I love the music, period. I wouldn't want SP back w/ Journey, that part is closed. But I would love to hear more solo work from the man. (actually would go into serious hock over it) How's that....?

Eric wrote:

ohsherrie wrote:

Eric wrote:If Journey acheives at least some modest success with JSS at the helm.....and you guys get into material with him and have a blast at the shows.......AND.......Perry stays retired.....

Will your opinion of whether or not they should have waited for him change?

I think I just answered this in the other thread we were talking in, but I'll elaborate more here. I truly wish they had given Steve Perry more time. I think they rushed the decision. But I think there was a lot more going on between them than we will ever know about and I'm sure Steve wasn't one of those humble and sweet guys during all of it any more than Augeri has been. I never liked Augeri singing the hits even though I thought he sounded good on Arrival and Generations.

Am I glad they're still around to get Jeff on board? HELL YEAH!!!

How much time do you ultimately wish they would have given him....and I take that to assume you think that had they waited that he wouldn't have stayed retired. These are of course all opinions, but I'm curious now that the PHeads and the Journey-no-matter-whats are on good speaking ground. This would have been a battle even a few years ago, but now we're all talking as good friends.

I think Playitloudforme just answered most of your question for me but I'll still give it a stab.

I don't know how much time Steve would have needed because I don't have the information necessary to make that determination. I only say they should have waited longer because Steve said they should have waited. That said to me that he didn't want to give it up and that they were trying to rush him into a decision he wasn't ready to make at the time. Given that it was his health that was in question more patience and understanding may have been called for. They gave Augeri two years(at least) without a voice to make the decision to get rid of him, they could have given the man that helped build their legacy at least twice that much. I think a lot of emotion, that led to anger and a "so there, take that" kind of attitude on both sides went into the things that transpired at the time and the decision they made.

I don't know if Steve would have ever felt that he could tour with Journey again because I'm not sure he felt his voice was up to singing the old songs the way the fans expected to hear them. For a long time, especially after hearing Augeri sing the classics, I felt that there shouldn't be a Journey without Steve Perry. There's a part of me that still feels that way, but I've gotten over most of it thanks to people on this board(you for one). I'm about to get over all of it thanks to Jeff.

Eric wrote:If Journey acheives at least some modest success with JSS at the helm.....and you guys get into material with him and have a blast at the shows.......AND.......Perry stays retired.....

Will your opinion of whether or not they should have waited for him change?

Wont be going to a show , so I cant tell you if I had a blast and there has been no announcement of Perry retiring.

I will say it was Steve Perry with Journey who created timeless music. I was, am and will continue to be a Perry fan.The balance of the future has yet to unfold. I do wish JSS all the luck in the world, I hope all goes well for him!

perrydaze wrote:

Wont be going to a show , so I cant tell you if I had a blast and there has been no announcement of Perry retiring.

I will say it was Steve Perry with Journey who created timeless music. I was, am and will continue to be a Perry fan.The balance of the future has yet to unfold. I do wish JSS all the luck in the world, I hope all goes well for him!

Could you please clarify your statement about the balance of the future unfolding? Do you think Perry will sing with Journey again?

I LOVE Perry from 78-81. I am one of the biggest Perryheads around.

However, I understand that he lost his voice. Yes, he can still sing on key as naturally as ever, but his vocal cords are shot. He can't sing as high or as smoothly anymore.

Perry today vs. Soto today - I will take Soto.

Anyone vs. Perry prior to '83 - well, no one can compete... Well, maybe Beyonce' Knowles. She is friggin amazing.

We should do a poll about whether more people prefer the high, smooth Perry voice of the 70's and early 80's or the huskier, deeper voice of the 90's-00's.

JeremyP wrote:We should do a poll about whether more people prefer the high, smooth Perry voice of the 70's and early 80's or the huskier, deeper voice of the 90's-00's.

I think someone did a while back, but would be interesting to do again. I nominate you to create it, JeremyP.

Ah, I must have missed the other thread.

Oh well, nomination accepted!

JeremyP wrote:We should do a poll about whether more people prefer the high, smooth Perry voice of the 70's and early 80's or the huskier, deeper voice of the 90's-00's.

I'm not someone who ever thought Perry somehow sounded awful in the 90's and forgot how to sing. Sure, the guy's voice changed (listen to Elton John today sing Rocket Man, and listen to the way it was originally recorded...doesn't even sound like the same guy, but, still sounds good). I just remember hearing "When You Love A Woman" when TBF came out, and I certainly didn't have to scratch my head and ponder whose vocals I was listening to! It still sounded like Perry to me, and I personally thought he sounded superb on that track!

As far as whether or not Neal and Jon should have given Perry more time...I'm not sure it even matters, at this point. I'm quite sure that Perry has had numerous opportunities over the past 10 years to ressurrect his singing career, if he felt so inclined. I think it's quite clear that Perry simply doesn't think he has "it" any longer and has chosen to remain in the background. I think for many Journey fans (myself included), we have such a strong connection to the music and that connection, for most of us, was made through Perry's vocals. I think the vast majority of Journey fans (even the one's who aren't so called Perry "Loons"), would have preferred for the band to remain together and not become fractured. A band breaking up is almost NEVER a good thing, and replacing a lead singer is virtually impossible. Having said all that, I personally would rather keep hearing the music than not hear it at all. I never really thought Augeri had a powerful enough voice to sing Journey's catalogue, but still listened, because of my connection to Journey. I will continue to listen to Journey's music, as long as they continue to make it.

I think the important thing to note here is that many of us just accept the music for what it is. In my opinion, Journey will NEVER be what they were, with or without Perry. I don't personally compare Augeri to Perry or Perry to Soto. For me, it's simply a different band, playing the same music, that I still enjoy. I do applaud both Augeri and Jeff for stepping into Perry's VERY large shadow, because it's really not the most enviable position to be thrust into.

John from Boston

Enigma869 wrote:I just remember hearing "When You Love A Woman" when TBF came out, and I certainly didn't have to scratch my head and ponder whose vocals I was listening to! It still sounded like Perry to me, and I personally thought he sounded superb on that track!

I agree.

Enigma869 wrote:

JeremyP wrote:We should do a poll about whether more people prefer the high, smooth Perry voice of the 70's and early 80's or the huskier, deeper voice of the 90's-00's.

I'm not someone who ever thought Perry somehow sounded awful in the 90's and forgot how to sing. Sure, the guy's voice changed (listen to Elton John today sing Rocket Man, and listen to the way it was originally recorded...doesn't even sound like the same guy, but, still sounds good). I just remember hearing "When You Love A Woman" when TBF came out, and I certainly didn't have to scratch my head and ponder whose vocals I was listening to! It still sounded like Perry to me, and I personally thought he sounded superb on that track!

As far as whether or not Neal and Jon should have given Perry more time...I'm not sure it even matters, at this point. I'm quite sure that Perry has had numerous opportunities over the past 10 years to ressurrect his singing career, if he felt so inclined. I think it's quite clear that Perry simply doesn't think he has "it" any longer and has chosen to remain in the background. I think for many Journey fans (myself included), we have such a strong connection to the music and that connection, for most of us, was made through Perry's vocals. I think the vast majority of Journey fans (even the one's who aren't so called Perry "Loons"), would have preferred for the band to remain together and not become fractured. A band breaking up is almost NEVER a good thing, and replacing a lead singer is virtually impossible. Having said all that, I personally would rather keep hearing the music than not hear it at all. I never really thought Augeri had a powerful enough voice to sing Journey's catalogue, but still listened, because of my connection to Journey. I will continue to listen to Journey's music, as long as they continue to make it.

I think the important thing to note here is that many of us just accept the music for what it is. In my opinion, Journey will NEVER be what they were, with or without Perry. I don't personally compare Augeri to Perry or Perry to Soto. For me, it's simply a different band, playing the same music, that I still enjoy. I do applaud both Augeri and Jeff for stepping into Perry's VERY large shadow, because it's really not the most enviable position to be thrust into.

John from Boston

John, I just love the way u express yourself and most of the time I agree with u...especially this time...I am a Perryhead, but have enough sense to know it is over and will never be again..and enough sense to know that the future with Jeff is going to be exciting and and wonderful...I am looking forward to the new album and expect that it will be kick-ass...

ohsherrie wrote:

Eric wrote:If Journey acheives at least some modest success with JSS at the helm.....and you guys get into material with him and have a blast at the shows.......AND.......Perry stays retired.....

Will your opinion of whether or not they should have waited for him change?

I think I just answered this in the other thread we were talking in, but I'll elaborate more here. I truly wish they had given Steve Perry more time. I think they rushed the decision. But I think there was a lot more going on between them than we will ever know about and I'm sure Steve wasn't one of those humble and sweet guys during all of it any more than Augeri has been. I never liked Augeri singing the hits even though I thought he sounded good on Arrival and Generations.

Am I glad they're still around to get Jeff on board? HELL YEAH!!!

RUSHED THE DECISION? You have got to be kidding me. Neal and Jonathan both released solo albums before they moved on.

WHAT IF they heard JSS a couple months after TBF was released, and then released statments and interviews that basicaly leave the impression that they hired JSS because they like his voice better? What if JSS then went on the official site and said, "I know that for every one of you who leaves, 10 will come in to replace you."

You would be up in arms like never before...and I would probably agree with you.

Monker wrote:
RUSHED THE DECISION? You have got to be kidding me. Neal and Jonathan both released solo albums before they moved on.

I know you don't agree and I understand why, but I just don't think they gave him the time he needed. He may have never gone on tour no matter how much time they gave him, I don't know. Like I said though, I think a lot of shit influenced the decisions that were made on both sides besides his health problems.

WHAT IF they heard JSS a couple months after TBF was released, and then released statments and interviews that basicaly leave the impression that they hired JSS because they like his voice better? What if JSS then went on the official site and said, "I know that for every one of you who leaves, 10 will come in to replace you."

You would be up in arms like never before...and I would probably agree with you.

Maybe, probably, hell I don't really know how to answer you. A lot of things went into my behavior back then that had more to do with the war between the fans than anything else. I never liked Augeri, of that I'm certain. I like Jeff and I'm certain about that. I wish Perry was still with Journey and that's an absolute fact. I don't know what else to tell you.

well, obviously the fans have no say so in what happens in a band, but for me I now wished they had waited for SP (again, I didn't know anything about a break up until '04). I don't particularly care if the journey continued just so people could go to their concerts...although, I'm sure making a living was a big factor for the rest of the band. I guess more than ANYTHING is that I wish there wasn't a rift in their friendship. I wish it hadn't resulted in bad feelings amongst them all. Personally, I like JSS but I'm afraid I will never get so excited that I will forget about SP...I'll always be a Perry lover.
tammy

Well, as a self-professed "loon", I will always want Steve Perry with Journey first and foremost. However, I do accept that this is not to be, for now, and may never be. My ultimate dream come true would be for Journey to continue with Jeff as long as they wish to remain "on the road", and when it is time to say goodbye to the road, to reunite with Steve Perry to 'go out with style'. I think that would be awesome, and from what I get from him, Jeff may support this type of thing too.

I have been so impressed and excited about this new "Journey" since seeing them in November. However, I remember being impressed with Augeri back when he first joined too. The difference is that after seeing him in concert with them, I basically moved on without another thought. I wasn't waiting for new material, wanting to learn more about them, etc. I am more into it now. And to be honest, I attribute a lot of that to you guys, the people that I've met here, and at the Annex, and at the party at Ed's house in November. I now consider many of you friends, and as such feel a common bond with you that keeps me interested. With 4 children and a full-time job, it's hard to find time for this stuff, but I do it anyway, cause I'm having a blast!!

So...I want to see Perry, and yes, I'm sure I would give up Jeff w/Journey if I had the chance to make that happen. Sorry, Jeff. Should they have waited longer? I don't know. But, I think OhSherrie hit on something when she said Steve asked them to wait for him. If I'm not mistaken, in previous times he basically said he couldn't go on, he was toast, etc. And so it sounds like he may have truly intended to work with them. We don't know what really went down with his health, so we're all speculating on that one. Like the 'wigglers' with their guy, I will support SP in whatever he chooses to do. But I sure am crazy about those other 5 guys, too!!!

Eric wrote:If Journey acheives at least some modest success with JSS at the helm.....and you guys get into material with him and have a blast at the shows.......AND.......Perry stays retired.....

Will your opinion of whether or not they should have waited for him change?

What a strange question...
Journey made so many mistakes in the past,and one of them was letting their egos decide the future of the band.
That's not really surprising considering that both SP and Neal are/were strong headed personalities.

I don't know how to relate the curent JSS era with the SP era,they're two different animals and the circumstances are different.

If you ask me "Should've Journey waited for Perry?",I would say "Yes".
The 8 years that followed his departure were not the best for the band,and I don't think it was worthed to rush things and hire someone else as long as Perry had the intention to take care of his problems and come back.
If Def Leppard had the will and the power to wait for their drummer to recover and re-learn to play,I think Journey should have done the same thing,especially because SP was their trademark.

As for JSS,I believe he will be able to do what SA was supposed to do in 1998 but couldn't.
However,JSS is replacing the replacement,so it's a bit easier.
Like I said...Two different circumstances.

I also believe that Journey is rejuvenated,which is what the Perry fans have been waiting for a long time.

Bubble fucking busted...Perry is NOT staying retired. I'll take private bets via PM only. And for the record...I owe punk ass Deano $5 for the Cardinals winning the World Series.

Monker wrote:

WHAT IF they heard JSS a couple months after TBF was released, and then released statments and interviews that basicaly leave the impression that they hired JSS because they like his voice better? What if JSS then went on the official site and said, "I know that for every one of you who leaves, 10 will come in to replace you."

You would be up in arms like never before...and I would probably agree with you.

I thought about this some more. Yeah, I would have been raising hell. However, there's a significant difference between then and now. There's also a huge difference between being a Perryhead and an Augerihead. Perry was an integral part of Journey. It was his voice and songwriting chemistry with them that brought them success. Augeri was a generic plug-in replacement who nearly brought them completely down. He accomplished nothing with Journey except keeping them on the road and anyone with a decent voice in a similar range could have done that as well or better than he did. He was totally insignificant but, as it turns out, very consequential and the consequences would have been devastating if it hadn't been for Jeff.

I understand what those people are feeling, but I can't for the life of me understand why.

ohsherrie wrote:I understand what those people are feeling, but I can't for the life of me understand why.

Yeah, there is a difference there....

Monker wrote:RUSHED THE DECISION? You have got to be kidding me. Neal and Jonathan both released solo albums before they moved on.

Which of Neal's solo albums? Beyond The Thunder? That was released only about 8 months after FTLOSM - Did he have another solo CD out after the release of Trial By Fire?

Also, can anyone refresh my memory about what the timeline was between Perry's hip incident and the decision to move on without him? I've heard it was 2 years, but by 2 years they were already touring with Augeri.

WHAT IF they heard JSS a couple months after TBF was released, and then released statments and interviews that basicaly leave the impression that they hired JSS because they like his voice better? What if JSS then went on the official site and said, "I know that for every one of you who leaves, 10 will come in to replace you."

You would be up in arms like never before...and I would probably agree with you.

Well, if Perry went out on tour with Def Leppard and then had his hip injury and couldn't continue the tour, I think you'd have a more direct parallel. However, even in that circumstance, you can't really compare the 2 situations. That would have been like Steven Tyler breaking a hip mid-tour and Aerosmith finding a replacement before the next show - You'd never see something like that happen.

JeremyP wrote:

perrydaze wrote:

Wont be going to a show , so I cant tell you if I had a blast and there has been no announcement of Perry retiring.

I will say it was Steve Perry with Journey who created timeless music. I was, am and will continue to be a Perry fan.The balance of the future has yet to unfold. I do wish JSS all the luck in the world, I hope all goes well for him!

Could you please clarify your statement about the balance of the future unfolding? Do you think Perry will sing with Journey again?

The balance of the furture has yet to unfold, so NO ONE knows what will truly happen. There is only one person that can announce he has retired and he hasnt done that yet. There has yet to be any timeless music made by Journey since 1996, so that has yet to happen..hence the "future".

And finally, NO I dont think Perry will ever sing with Journey again. The past is the past and it is better off left there. One thing I will say, healing does need to be done on all sides.

I agree with John from Boston. I also think you have to define "mildy successful" for this band with JSS. They will never be what they were, so expectations have to be managed. In my opinion, Journey has and will continue to struggle possibly more than any other band when it comes to replacing the lead singer. When people think of Journey (people on this site excluded) they think of Perry and the vocals.

jrnyfan74 wrote:I agree with John from Boston. I also think you have to define "mildy successful" for this band with JSS. They will never be what they were, so expectations have to be managed. In my opinion, Journey has and will continue to struggle possibly more than any other band when it comes to replacing the lead singer. When people think of Journey (people on this site excluded) they think of Perry and the vocals.

Of course, the Journey with Perry is what comes to my mind when the band is mentioned - it's bound to. That was their most poular and successful period. Steve P is forever linked with that.

I don't think the market for 'melodic rock' is what it was. Certainly not over here in the UK. So they probably won't be as successful with JSS as they were with SP, that was then, this is now so I don't think we can really compare. The market is different now. So a new chapter has to begin, really.
But I don't see why they shouldn't be more successful with JSS than they were with Augeri.
JSS seems to appeal to a very wide range of people, so if they come up with some good new songs, I'm sure they'll sell heaps of CD's and gig tickets. Why not? We all like to hear a good voice singing a good song played by good musicians, don't we?

Perry is one of my favourite singers, so if that makes me a Perryhead, fine, I'll go with that.
I didn't go overboard on Augeri, mainly because there weren't many songs of that period which 'grabbed' me. I did love and still love 'Higher Place' though. Maybe if more good songs had been created during his tenure, I may have been more of a fan of his. I don't dislike the guy, he just doesn't 'move' me. And only that one song moved me at the time.

I want to hear some new stuff from them now. Then I'll make my mind up about a JSS fronted Journey.
As I said, we all like to hear a good voice singing a good song played by good musicians.
All the ingredients are there, so how can they fail??


And I don't know whether they should have waited longer for Steve all those years ago, because I don't know the full facts.
Wish I did, though. Just curious.

Jeremey wrote:

Monker wrote:RUSHED THE DECISION? You have got to be kidding me. Neal and Jonathan both released solo albums before they moved on.

Which of Neal's solo albums? Beyond The Thunder? That was released only about 8 months after FTLOSM - Did he have another solo CD out after the release of Trial By Fire?

Also, can anyone refresh my memory about what the timeline was between Perry's hip incident and the decision to move on without him? I've heard it was 2 years, but by 2 years they were already touring with Augeri.

He was involved in Abraxus Pool around this timeframe I think?

I believe it was - after 18 months of no decision, they decided to move on....

Not a Perryhead here, but a fan of the man's vocal abilities and music he did with Journey.

Few points in this thread I would like to comment on. First, I don't recall reading or hearing that Perry asked the guys to wait for him after TBF. I may have missed that.

I do believe that 18 - 20 months was the correct amount of time Schon and Cain "waited" for a decision from Perry.

I think that it was Neal's Electric World double CD that was released during that time frame. Not 100% positive though.

SF-DANO wrote:Not a Perryhead here, but a fan of the man's vocal abilities and music he did with Journey.

Few points in this thread I would like to comment on. First, I don't recall reading or hearing that Perry asked the guys to wait for him after TBF. I may have missed that.

I do believe that 18 - 20 months was the correct amount of time Schon and Cain "waited" for a decision from Perry.

I think that it was Neal's Electric World double CD that was released during that time frame. Not 100% positive though.

When I read the interviews from the band in reference to Perry's leaving the band, I calculated that they waited 13 months for a decision from him...that should really have been enough time....but can understand his not wanting to go through hip-replacement surgery b/c at that time the replacements were only good for 15 years and then had to be done again so I can't blame him for waiting...