MR

......I know they're out there. I find it hard to believe that Perry, Schon, and Cain would've only written 15 or 16 songs for Trial By Fire.

If there are more of these songs out there....I wonder if they will ever see the light of day?

I thought that I remember Perry once saying (during the recording of the TBF album), that they had 18 songs total and were gonna pick the best of the bunch.
Don't know if all 18 were actually recorded or even demo'd, but for some reason that number sticks with me.

Johnny Mohawk wrote:I thought that I remember Perry once saying (during the recording of the TBF album), that they had 18 songs total and were gonna pick the best of the bunch.
Don't know if all 18 were actually recorded or even demo'd, but for some reason that number sticks with me.

There were quite a few more than that.
I went through cases of cassettes, (this was pre-CD burner in every room, and an MP3 player was in a computer, not ) recording every utterance while they were working.I then had to compile relevant sections into masters for them to peruse at their leisure.
these compilations would then be used at home with their home studio setups as a basis for further work, and then, would re-appear as a full fledged thought.

Some of Neal's "leftover's" end up on solo releases, even if they are re-worked versions of a specific idea when introduced during the band writing process.
Cain will keep working on them and I imagine his "inventory' would be immense, and some of those ideas surface on subsequent projects for Journey.

These guys are song writing machines, no doubt about that.

AlienC wrote:

Johnny Mohawk wrote:I thought that I remember Perry once saying (during the recording of the TBF album), that they had 18 songs total and were gonna pick the best of the bunch.
Don't know if all 18 were actually recorded or even demo'd, but for some reason that number sticks with me.

There were quite a few more than that.
I went through cases of cassettes, (this was pre-CD burner in every room, and an MP3 player was in a computer, not ) recording every utterance while they were working.I then had to compile relevant sections into masters for them to peruse at their leisure.
these compilations would then be used at home with their home studio setups as a basis for further work, and then, would re-appear as a full fledged thought.

Some of Neal's "leftover's" end up on solo releases, even if they are re-worked versions of a specific idea when introduced during the band writing process.
Cain will keep working on them and I imagine his "inventory' would be immense, and some of those ideas surface on subsequent projects for Journey.

These guys are song writing machines, no doubt about that.

Even though I think you threw Neal "under the bus" I can appreciate your insights. Now let me say this. You WERE part of a team. A team that made you "rich." That said, you're clearly a bitter ex.....a real pussy. I'd rather take a permanent "holiday" then let you keep posting your dribble without consequence. Why would you post at a website that is supposed to PROMOTE Journey unless you had an agenda? I'm tired of hearing how well off Journey made you. I hope you die...preferably soon. Fuck you scumbag....love Neal, Steve, Jon, Ross and Steve

Johnny Mohawk wrote:I thought that I remember Perry once saying (during the recording of the TBF album), that they had 18 songs total and were gonna pick the best of the bunch.

Well, they sure screwed up by leaving I Can See It In Your Eyes off that record.

Thankfully, the band's righted that oversight< NIG, with the TBF remaster.
Extra pics are great, too.

This is from a 1996 Modern Drummer interview with Steve Smith...

"...we had around thirty songs in various stages of completion. Then we tried to hone down the best of those because the lyric and final melody writing was rather painstaking for Jon and Steve, and they didn't want to do it if it was unnecessary. We got it down to eighteen songs, and they completed them. We ended up choosing sixteen to record."

AlienC wrote: recording every utterance while they were working.I then had to compile relevant sections into masters for them to peruse at their leisure.
............. Some of Neal's "leftover's" end up on solo releases, even if they are re-worked versions of a specific idea when introduced during the band writing process.

wow , i cant believe Neal keeps all of his tracks,, i have heard malmsteen does the same,,, its not all one take solos on all those cds,, or it might be one take with a solo or riff that is known to work already! very smart and good to know... allen it would have been pretty cool if you had kept a diary of the day to day with the band,,, OR maybe not...

AlienC wrote:

Johnny Mohawk wrote:I thought that I remember Perry once saying (during the recording of the TBF album), that they had 18 songs total and were gonna pick the best of the bunch.
Don't know if all 18 were actually recorded or even demo'd, but for some reason that number sticks with me.

There were quite a few more than that.
I went through cases of cassettes, (this was pre-CD burner in every room, and an MP3 player was in a computer, not ) recording every utterance while they were working.I then had to compile relevant sections into masters for them to peruse at their leisure.
these compilations would then be used at home with their home studio setups as a basis for further work, and then, would re-appear as a full fledged thought.

Some of Neal's "leftover's" end up on solo releases, even if they are re-worked versions of a specific idea when introduced during the band writing process.
Cain will keep working on them and I imagine his "inventory' would be immense, and some of those ideas surface on subsequent projects for Journey.

These guys are song writing machines, no doubt about that.

Interesting stuff. Was most of this stuff just music w/o lyrics?

I seem to recall reading in an interview about Arrivial that the song "All the Things I Love About You" came from the TBF sessions, though looking at the credits it says Cain, Schon, Pessis, so the complete song might not have been finished with Perry. Though not one of my favorites, it would have been interesting to hear Perry's take on that song.

saint John wrote:

Even though I think you threw Neal "under the bus" I can appreciate your insights. Now let me say this. You WERE part of a team. A team that made you "rich." That said, you're clearly a bitter ex.....a real pussy. I'd rather take a permanent "holiday" then let you keep posting your dribble without consequence. Why would you post at a website that is supposed to PROMOTE Journey unless you had an agenda? I'm tired of hearing how well off Journey made you. I hope you die...preferably soon. Fuck you scumbag....love Neal, Steve, Jon, Ross and Steve

SJ - I'm not going to put with with posts like this - directed at anyone. I do NOT expect to see a repeat of this.

Oh, I am begging to take off the hat and put the Bible down and comment on this....Oh man am I ever....

RockinDeano wrote:Oh, I am begging to take off the hat and put the Bible down and comment on this....Oh man am I ever....

Hold on to your faith Deano. A better life awaits us all.

Gibby wrote:
Interesting stuff. Was most of this stuff just music w/o lyrics?

Exactly.
Neal writes a lot (or did at the time ) using a digital echoplex. This loops a riff, over and over and allows him to play on top of something he just 'layed down'.
A lot of the tapes were these sorts of "digital jam sessions" were quite complex. If you've evr seen him play with that full synth and V-guitar setup, it is really amazing.

To be honest, i think it rivals Steve Vai's.

Red13JoePa wrote:Thankfully, the band's righted that oversight< NIG, with the TBF remaster.
Extra pics are great, too.

thanks-I totally missed that. Best Buy for me today.

AlienC wrote:

Gibby wrote:
Interesting stuff. Was most of this stuff just music w/o lyrics?

Exactly.
Neal writes a lot (or did at the time ) using a digital echoplex. This loops a riff, over and over and allows him to play on top of something he just 'layed down'.
A lot of the tapes were these sorts of "digital jam sessions" were quite complex. If you've evr seen him play with that full synth and V-guitar setup, it is really amazing.

To be honest, i think it rivals Steve Vai's.

cool info, Allen, thanks. I wondered how they save stuff.

GirlLikeYou wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:Thankfully, the band's righted that oversight< NIG, with the TBF remaster.
Extra pics are great, too.

thanks-I totally missed that. Best Buy for me today.

It's awesome they have shots up in Marin Headlands (or somewhere like that in shadow of the Bay/GGBridge), one in the redwood forrest....

Maybe Neal's coolest look ever.

Red13JoePa wrote:

GirlLikeYou wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:Thankfully, the band's righted that oversight< NIG, with the TBF remaster.
Extra pics are great, too.

thanks-I totally missed that. Best Buy for me today.

It's awesome they have shots up in Marin Headlands (or somewhere like that in shadow of the Bay/GGBridge), one in the redwood forrest....

Maybe Neal's coolest look ever.

thanks!

I like his look now. My avatar is a pic I took in San Antonio in 2005.

AlienC

Didn't Brian May make the EcoPlex a household word for guitarist? I've seen Queen many times back in the day, and Brian would use this during his solos...some amazing harmonies to say tthe least.

Chad

chad wrote:AlienC

Didn't Brian May make the EcoPlex a household word for guitarist? I've seen Queen many times back in the day, and Brian would use this during his solos...some amazing harmonies to say tthe least.

Chad

I'm not Allen, but as Brian's my favorite guitarist, I gotta chime in.

I think his use of Echoplexes was by far the most innovative use of the machine to date. He created not only awesome harmonies but complex counter rhythms.....LIVE!!

He's really amazing. He's the man.

hey jeremy

yes, brian may is just amazing...

i met him a year ago at the burbank airport and talked with him briefly....what a cool guy!

So I take then that 18 out of the 30 songs were completely finished and the others were not near the stage of being demos at least? I would love to hear what those songs sounded like and if any of them had vocal tracks to them.

I also wonder if any of those songs might make it onto the next Journey album, or if everything will be brand spakin' new?

Greggie wrote:
I also wonder if any of those songs might make it onto the next Journey album, or if everything will be brand spakin' new?

New from what I am aware of.

Wombat, them words were like gravy to me man!
(Dean'o shut up and don't post your thought's, I
can hear em already.)

Andrew wrote:

Greggie wrote:
I also wonder if any of those songs might make it onto the next Journey album, or if everything will be brand spakin' new?

New from what I am aware of.

Any news on when they will start laying down some tracks?

NealIsGod wrote:
Well, they sure screwed up by leaving I Can See It In Your Eyes off that record.

YES! They ABSOLUTELY screwed up by leaving that off.
First leaving Liberty off Frontiers, then that... but they left Back Talk IN??
Who the hell was picking the tracks for this band??