MR

Hi Jeff,

Just a quick question I don't think anyone has asked before. I'm glad to hear you will NEVER lip-sync. Pleases me to no end. Just wondering though if you guys ever use pitch correction software live either all the time or occasionally if things are going rough in the vocal department. Everyone seems to be using it these days and I was just wondering if you guys are into that at all or if it's banned in the Journey camp!

p.s. Who played guitar on your solo version of Send Her My Love. Sounds just like Neal if it's not.

Ed

i have a question ed.. does the pictch correction mics really work?!i might start saving my money ,, i just dont understand that technology,,

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:i have a question ed.. does the pictch correction mics really work?!i might start saving my money ,, i just dont understand that technology,,

Larry, they run the vocals through computer software that can correct the pitch on the fly as they sing. Turns some pretty bad singers into acceptable ones. It's not in the microphones themselves (I don't think).

Ed

JrnyScarab wrote:Hi Jeff,

Just a quick question I don't think anyone has asked before. I'm glad to hear you will NEVER lip-sync. Pleases me to no end. Just wondering though if you guys ever use pitch correction software live either all the time or occasionally if things are going rough in the vocal department. Everyone seems to be using it these days and I was just wondering if you guys are into that at all or if it's banned in the Journey camp!

p.s. Who played guitar on your solo version of Send Her My Love. Sounds just like Neal if it's not.

Ed

Saw JSS last night at Nottingham and on just one song I thought that something like an octaver or whatever they were called had been used to change the pitch. Can't remember the song but I thought at the time that don't seem quite right. Good gig though, better than I expected. Not as good as Edinburgh last year - crap sound, funny atmosphere.

JrnyScarab wrote:

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:i have a question ed.. does the pictch correction mics really work?!i might start saving my money ,, i just dont understand that technology,,

Larry, they run the vocals through computer software that can correct the pitch on the fly as they sing. Turns some pretty bad singers into acceptable ones. It's not in the microphones themselves (I don't think).

Ed

that makes more sense to me,, i saw Roth tour sever years ago ,, and his bass player had this gagdet on top of his mic,, i asked a guy after what it was and he told me "..blah blah blah pitch correction.. "... i just cant imagine how that works,,

Its Autotune that is used as an outboard effect on studio vocals and can be used 'live' outboard within a rack for front of house sound, though in a 'live' setting I think you can always tell. Just sounds too true.

Jeff - we were mid stalls at Nottingham and Elson (if he was mixing) did not get your vocal up in the mix enough, I hope that isn't the same rig used on the rest of the tour. Great show though man.

pdsidd wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:Hi Jeff,

Just a quick question I don't think anyone has asked before. I'm glad to hear you will NEVER lip-sync. Pleases me to no end. Just wondering though if you guys ever use pitch correction software live either all the time or occasionally if things are going rough in the vocal department. Everyone seems to be using it these days and I was just wondering if you guys are into that at all or if it's banned in the Journey camp!

p.s. Who played guitar on your solo version of Send Her My Love. Sounds just like Neal if it's not.

Ed

Saw JSS last night at Nottingham and on just one song I thought that something like an octaver or whatever they were called had been used to change the pitch. Can't remember the song but I thought at the time that don't seem quite right. Good gig though, better than I expected. Not as good as Edinburgh last year - crap sound, funny atmosphere.

Umm....don't think so!! I use nothing but good old fashioned reverb & delays, no chorus, no phasers, no lasers, hoops or ladders!

Another 'Neil' played the solo, Neil Goldberg who I was working with on a band project at the time, 'Neal' was a huge influence on him & he of course knew that solo note for note. Since I hadn't met Neal yet, I asked Neil to play on it....confused?

Marc S wrote:Its Autotune that is used as an outboard effect on studio vocals and can be used 'live' outboard within a rack for front of house sound, though in a 'live' setting I think you can always tell. Just sounds too true.

Jeff - we were mid stalls at Nottingham and Elson (if he was mixing) did not get your vocal up in the mix enough, I hope that isn't the same rig used on the rest of the tour. Great show though man.

Nottingham was 1/4 of our rig because the place was set up too different from our stage plan...it was a rough for KE, he was cursing so much I could hear him onstage, ha ha. And, no he doesn't use Auto Tune on me, that would require changing & programming the module for each key of each song...way too much work, he has his hands full enough doing the mixing, believe me, I know what's on my mic!

JSS wrote:

Nottingham was 1/4 of our rig because the place was set up too different from our stage plan...it was a rough for KE, he was cursing so much I could hear him onstage, ha ha. And, no he doesn't use Auto Tune on me, that would require changing & programming the module for each key of each song...way too much work, he has his hands full enough doing the mixing, believe me, I know what's on my mic!

No, I wouldn't imagine for one min you would need it. Mind you how you run around like a madman and sing is seriously impressive. Interesting what you say about a quarter of the rig, ties in with exactly how it sounded, just not enough boxes or power - that is such a shame, will you have the full rig at Birmingham? I know there are tickets left, its only 40 miles from me, I'd love to see you do it again...

JSS wrote:

pdsidd wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:Hi Jeff,

Just a quick question I don't think anyone has asked before. I'm glad to hear you will NEVER lip-sync. Pleases me to no end. Just wondering though if you guys ever use pitch correction software live either all the time or occasionally if things are going rough in the vocal department. Everyone seems to be using it these days and I was just wondering if you guys are into that at all or if it's banned in the Journey camp!

p.s. Who played guitar on your solo version of Send Her My Love. Sounds just like Neal if it's not.

Ed

Saw JSS last night at Nottingham and on just one song I thought that something like an octaver or whatever they were called had been used to change the pitch. Can't remember the song but I thought at the time that don't seem quite right. Good gig though, better than I expected. Not as good as Edinburgh last year - crap sound, funny atmosphere.

Umm....don't think so!! I use nothing but good old fashioned reverb & delays, no chorus, no phasers, no lasers, hoops or ladders!

Another 'Neil' played the solo, Neil Goldberg who I was working with on a band project at the time, 'Neal' was a huge influence on him & he of course knew that solo note for note. Since I hadn't met Neal yet, I asked Neil to play on it....confused?

Thanks Jeff. I appreciate your quick reply. Keep slaying them!

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:i have a question ed.. does the pictch correction mics really work?!i might start saving my money ,, i just dont understand that technology,,

Larry, they run the vocals through computer software that can correct the pitch on the fly as they sing. Turns some pretty bad singers into acceptable ones. It's not in the microphones themselves (I don't think).

Ed

that makes more sense to me,, i saw Roth tour sever years ago ,, and his bass player had this gagdet on top of his mic,, i asked a guy after what it was and he told me "..blah blah blah pitch correction.. "... i just cant imagine how that works,,

If I may add to the discussion now that Mr. Soto has replied.....

That gadget was a device that uses an infra red sensor to turn the mic on when the performer stands in the singing in the mic position. ( think security light technology) Too many mics "on" can spoil the mix.
There are devices called 'GATES" that will also do the job, but they can be mis-triggered by other loud sounds occurring near the microphone., as they use the signal level change ( and the rate of change) as the basis for determining to turn on or not. Example: If the lead singers mic is near the drummer, the snare drum could trigger the lead singer mic on with each snare hit, if it's THRESHOLD is set too low. Conversely, if the threshold is too high, the beginning of the word may be clipped off as the gate triggers "on" behind the utterance of the lyric.

On Journey's "Vacations Over" tour, we used them (IR gates) for awhile until we discovered that the moving lights were false triggering the iR devices with the LIGHT BEAM as it passed over the mic. Those type of lights emit such an intense beam, they can ignite wood stage floors, curtains, CIGARETTES, if tightly focused and at close range. Also they can burn your retinas so DO NOT stare into them.

Pitch correction is most often used in the studio , in the digital environment called "pro tools". There is a version that will go in the PA rack, but NO AMOUNT of electronic bandaging can correct a serious problem and still sound human. The trick is being able to "duck" the "bad' vocal under the auto-tuned vocal and then restore the vocal when the out-of-tuneness ceases.


The best pitch correction tool resides between the ears of the vocalist.




That is all.

Allen,thaks for such an interesting post.
I'm curious what kind of stage lighting did Journey use back then?Working with Vari-Lite?I heard they provide one of the best stage lighting equipment out there.

About that retina burning light beam,is that a laser you are talking about?I have a friend who had eye problems because of stareing into them at a concert.

Sorry for such tech questions,but I love knowing about these things.

AlienC wrote:The best pitch correction tool resides between the ears of the vocalist.

I totally agree!
Overuse of Autotune or whatever pitch correction device is just wrong,that robotic sound of the over-corrected voice is terrible.

AlienC wrote:

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:

JrnyScarab wrote:

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:i have a question ed.. does the pictch correction mics really work?!i might start saving my money ,, i just dont understand that technology,,

Larry, they run the vocals through computer software that can correct the pitch on the fly as they sing. Turns some pretty bad singers into acceptable ones. It's not in the microphones themselves (I don't think).

Ed

that makes more sense to me,, i saw Roth tour sever years ago ,, and his bass player had this gagdet on top of his mic,, i asked a guy after what it was and he told me "..blah blah blah pitch correction.. "... i just cant imagine how that works,,

If I may add to the discussion now that Mr. Soto has replied.....

That gadget was a device that uses an infra red sensor to turn the mic on when the performer stands in the singing in the mic position. ( think security light technology) Too many mics "on" can spoil the mix.
There are devices called 'GATES" that will also do the job, but they can be mis-triggered by other loud sounds occurring near the microphone., as they use the signal level change ( and the rate of change) as the basis for determining to turn on or not. Example: If the lead singers mic is near the drummer, the snare drum could trigger the lead singer mic on with each snare hit, if it's THRESHOLD is set too low. Conversely, if the threshold is too high, the beginning of the word may be clipped off as the gate triggers "on" behind the utterance of the lyric.

On Journey's "Vacations Over" tour, we used them (IR gates) for awhile until we discovered that the moving lights were false triggering the iR devices with the LIGHT BEAM as it passed over the mic. Those type of lights emit such an intense beam, they can ignite wood stage floors, curtains, CIGARETTES, if tightly focused and at close range. Also they can burn your retinas so DO NOT stare into them.

Pitch correction is most often used in the studio , in the digital environment called "pro tools". There is a version that will go in the PA rack, but NO AMOUNT of electronic bandaging can correct a serious problem and still sound human. The trick is being able to "duck" the "bad' vocal under the auto-tuned vocal and then restore the vocal when the out-of-tuneness ceases.


The best pitch correction tool resides between the ears of the vocalist.




That is all.

Good post, dude. If I'm not mistaken, Herbie Herbert said that Jon was using some sort of technology to sound a bit more like Greg Rolie. However, it's possible that I have that confused and it's merely what you alluded to. Please clarify, if you will. Thanks.

What I find insane is that with technology becoming so advanced - it is making it possible for anyone to become a singer. And I think that is nuts. Technology is a wonderful thing - but shouldn't replace natural talent.
I've been singing for years and years. I went to a vocal coach for many years.. I did (and still do) the silly exercises to keep the voice in shape.
As for pitch .. if you are singer - you still can sing flat, sharp or if playing with new harmonies hit a sour note. Just because someone is a singer doesn't not make them infallible. But the difference between a singer and non-singer is they KNOW when they are off - and can fix it themselves without the use of a machine.

Shania wrote: Allen,thaks for such an interesting post.
I'm curious what kind of stage lighting did Journey use back then?Working with Vari-Lite?I heard they provide one of the best stage lighting equipment out there.

About that retina burning light beam,is that a laser you are talking about?I have a friend who had eye problems because of stareing into them at a concert.

Sorry for such tech questions,but I love knowing about these things.

I actually enjoy the tech questions far more than any of a personal or business nature.
Vari-Lite (tm) were the originators of the modern moving light and now a days there are several moving light manufacturers. I do not remember specifically the particular device name / type we used then, just the problem / solution.
These are not lasers but a high intensity bulb that has a very high color temperature. The colors come from dichroic filters that allow for fully saturated (intense) colors and infinite variations between colors, without having to use theatrical "gels" which fade, burn through, tear, etc.. It has the same properties as an electric arc, like an arc welder produces. In fact, some of the moving lights use enclosed arc bulbs.

AlienC wrote:The best pitch correction tool resides between the ears of the vocalist.

Shania wrote:I totally agree!
Overuse of Autotune or whatever pitch correction device is just wrong,that robotic sound of the over-corrected voice is terrible.

I ain't saying it's wrong, but it ain't right.

ya know, just wondering, but if the band partially owns this lighting company,and they set the standard in screens and stage lights, then why arent they using more in their own set.. is it all rented out or something?

Kimterp wrote:What I find insane is that with technology becoming so advanced - it is making it possible for anyone to become a singer. And I think that is nuts. Technology is a wonderful thing - but shouldn't replace natural talent.
I've been singing for years and years. I went to a vocal coach for many years.. I did (and still do) the silly exercises to keep the voice in shape.
As for pitch .. if you are singer - you still can sing flat, sharp or if playing with new harmonies hit a sour note. Just because someone is a singer doesn't not make them infallible. But the difference between a singer and non-singer is they KNOW when they are off - and can fix it themselves without the use of a machine.

Alien's Caveats .... from the book without a name...... in no particular order....
There hasn't been a machine made yet, that has sung a note all by itself.

Nothing will replace talent. Except another talent.

A good song will sound good even if on an answering machine.

A good song transcends style of performance, and personality of performer. (c) 2002 Allen Craft, Alien Writing

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:ya know, just wondering, but if the band partially owns this lighting company,and they set the standard in screens and stage lights, then why arent they using more in their own set.. is it all rented out or something?

The owners of Nocturne Video are no longer the band, but rather Herbie, Neal and others from the original corporate board of directors, iirc.
"They" divested themselves of the lighting company back in the late '80s / early '90s.
At one time, there were several full on lighting rigs including lights , consoles, cables, trusses, rigging motors, and there were times that the warehouse was empty. An empty lighting warehouse is a business that's making money. A full one is not making a damn dime.

Thanks Allen,again,very interesting insight.

I have seen once up-close a stage set up by Vari-Lite and I was floored.Some amazing technology there.
However,I wouldn't know how to explain the things I saw because my tech English is something I'm still working on.