MR

Just reread the legendary Herbie Herbet interview and noticed some interesting comments regarding Deens role in the band.
Quote..'He is a much much much bigger part of the vocals than you realise'........'The first song on the record(Arrival) is where you can here that ghost vocal of Deens'.
Reading this it would appear Deen's role in the band was to help Augeri from the word go,you start to realise how important Deen has been to the success of the band,and also why Neal stuck by Deen when he had some problems a some years back.

Dude,

Deen's voice is friggin awesome for sure. Too bad he didn't step out from behind the kit and sing lead full time. He's a monster.

L8r,

Aaron

bionic wrote:Just reread the legendary Herbie Herbet interview and noticed some interesting comments regarding Deans role in the band.
Quote..'He is a much much much bigger part of the vocals than you realise'........'The first song on the record(Arrival) is where you can here that ghost vocal of Deans'.
Reading this it would appear Dean's role in the band was to help Augeri from the word go,you start to realise how important Dean has been to the success of the band,and also why Neal stuck by Dean when he had some problems a some years back.

Deen has always said he wants to stay behind the drum kit and not front. I think it is a security thing. When he is behind the kit, he cuts loose. And I agree about Deen always helping. I did not realize how much Deen helped Augeri until I saw some video of them in concert.

Terry

tupchurch wrote:Deen has always said he wants to stay behind the drum kit and not front. I think it is a security thing. When he is behind the kit, he cuts loose. And I agree about Deen always helping. I did not realize how much Deen helped Augeri until I saw some video of them in concert.

Terry

He really is the star of the band for me,though Jeff is working his arse off. What makes Dean stand out is the fact he is a brilliant drummer who sings like an angel,what a dude!

bionic wrote:

tupchurch wrote:Deen has always said he wants to stay behind the drum kit and not front. I think it is a security thing. When he is behind the kit, he cuts loose. And I agree about Deen always helping. I did not realize how much Deen helped Augeri until I saw some video of them in concert.

Terry

He really is the star of the band for me,though Jeff is working his arse off. What makes Dean stand out is the fact he is a brilliant drummer who sings like an angel,what a dude!

Then at least spell DEEN properly.

bionic wrote:Just reread the legendary Herbie Herbet interview and noticed some interesting comments regarding Deans role in the band.
Quote..'He is a much much much bigger part of the vocals than you realise'........'The first song on the record(Arrival) is where you can here that ghost vocal of Deans'.
Reading this it would appear Dean's role in the band was to help Augeri from the word go,you start to realise how important Dean has been to the success of the band,and also why Neal stuck by Dean when he had some problems a some years back.

IMO,they would have been fools not to use Deen's vocal potential.
Honestly,he sounds more like Journey than Augeri did,despite the fact that he wasn't the hired vocalist.

NealIsGod wrote:

bionic wrote:

tupchurch wrote:Deen has always said he wants to stay behind the drum kit and not front. I think it is a security thing. When he is behind the kit, he cuts loose. And I agree about Deen always helping. I did not realize how much Deen helped Augeri until I saw some video of them in concert.

Terry

He really is the star of the band for me,though Jeff is working his arse off. What makes Dean stand out is the fact he is a brilliant drummer who sings like an angel,what a dude!

Then at least spell DEEN properly.

LOL! When I read the title, I thought Deano was holding out on us.

bionic wrote: than you realise'........'The first song on the record(Arrival) is where you can here that ghost vocal of Deans'.
Reading this it would appear Dean's role in the band was to help Augeri from the word go

No, Augeri was fine then.
People want to trace 'Gate back to June of 1998 when he was first hire if they can, but really he was fine during the Arrival era.
Double H is simply talking about how good Castronovo sounded on the harmony voc he did with Augeri in the bridge of Higher Place.

NealIsGod wrote:

bionic wrote:

tupchurch wrote:Deen has always said he wants to stay behind the drum kit and not front. I think it is a security thing. When he is behind the kit, he cuts loose. And I agree about Deen always helping. I did not realize how much Deen helped Augeri until I saw some video of them in concert.

Terry

He really is the star of the band for me,though Jeff is working his arse off. What makes Dean stand out is the fact he is a brilliant drummer who sings like an angel,what a dude!

Then at least spell DEEN properly.

Whoops..corrected

when i saw Hardline, i dont remember a mic within 15 feet of deen... maybe he didnt know he could sing back then..

deen looking like his friend eric carr ! Hardline, no mic.

If you listen to Arrival closely, something really stands out. That is, you have "A" musicianship with "C" vocals. They just don't match. THAT is what stopped the album from getting on the radio. I hate to say it, but if you put Perry on that album, let him work his magic, maybe re-arrange a chorus or two, and MOST notably have the interaction with Neal's guitar and his voice, then and only then do you hear Arrival on the radio. The vocals are simply mediocre. ANY one of 50 singers could have matched the vocal efforts of Arrival.

Perry would have to agree to lay vocals over the songs, San Juan.

I just can't imagine him agreeing to sing Higher Place or World Gone Wild, or To Be Alive Again, 3 of the most immediate songs on the album. I don't think the band WROTE like that in the Trial By Fire era and I think Perry's naturally assumed input would've changed or deep 6ed those songs altogether.

Another Journey fan accessible #, We Will Meet Again for some reason, I CAN picture Perry singing that. But then again, he'd've had to have been in on the cowriting process in which case the whole argument could be moot because the song may never have gotten beyond the embryonic stages.

Red13JoePa wrote:Perry would have to agree to lay vocals over the songs, San Juan.

I just can't imagine him agreeing to sing Higher Place or World Gone Wild, or To Be Alive Again, 3 of the most immediate songs on the album. I don't think the band WROTE like that in the Trial By Fire era and I think Perry's naturally assumed input would've changed or deep 6ed those songs altogether.

Another Journey fan accessible #, We Will Meet Again for some reason, I CAN picture Perry singing that. But then again, he'd've had to have been in on the cowriting process in which case the whole argument could be moot because the song may never have gotten beyond the embryonic stages.

Sorry Pa, but I didn't mean for him to redo those songs. I agree 100% that he would NEVER touch those songs. I meant if somehow HE would have been the vocalist for those songs that they WOULD have seen some radio play. That's all.

The album wasn't given any promotion. Also the musical climate wasn't right.

For all you Perry loons, tell me this. On Trial By Fire, what was the second single and where did it chart?

In total agreement about Deen though, and that interview with Herbie is awesome reading. Always worth a second look.

Herbie throwing dirt on the band is extremely unprofessional IMO. But I DO believe he knows the difference between 'here' and 'hear'.....so I don't buy that so called quote.

AR wrote:The album wasn't given any promotion. Also the musical climate wasn't right.

For all you Perry loons, tell me this. On Trial By Fire, what was the second single and where did it chart?

In total agreement about Deen though, and that interview with Herbie is awesome reading. Always worth a second look.

Weren't MOL and WYLAW pretty much released at the same time?

saint John wrote:

AR wrote:The album wasn't given any promotion. Also the musical climate wasn't right.

For all you Perry loons, tell me this. On Trial By Fire, what was the second single and where did it chart?

In total agreement about Deen though, and that interview with Herbie is awesome reading. Always worth a second look.

Weren't MOL and WYLAW pretty much released at the same time?

Not sure.

My point being that TBF only had 1 hit.

MOL is the only song on that record that rocks.

AR wrote:

saint John wrote:

AR wrote:The album wasn't given any promotion. Also the musical climate wasn't right.

For all you Perry loons, tell me this. On Trial By Fire, what was the second single and where did it chart?

In total agreement about Deen though, and that interview with Herbie is awesome reading. Always worth a second look.

Weren't MOL and WYLAW pretty much released at the same time?

Not sure.

My point being that TBF only had 1 hit.

MOL is the only song on that record that rocks.

Point made, point taken and point agreed with!!!

saint John wrote:

AR wrote:The album wasn't given any promotion. Also the musical climate wasn't right.

For all you Perry loons, tell me this. On Trial By Fire, what was the second single and where did it chart?

In total agreement about Deen though, and that interview with Herbie is awesome reading. Always worth a second look.

Weren't MOL and WYLAW pretty much released at the same time?

I think they were...In fact I had the single realease of WYLAW and the bside was MOL (and open arms).

MOL got some decent airplay, but not enough to chart even back then.
Kinda like WYL in 8/01.

I think both TBF singles were released at the same time, just to different radio markets. Neither one particularly cared.

TBF needed a real single. Not a dialed in ballad like WYLAW. MOL isn't a bad song, but it doesn't blow anyone away either like a Separate Ways or even Higher Place. Honestly, I think Arrival had amazing songwriting, for the most part. I don't know what the difference was, but they couldn't stumble on a really memorable chorus on TBF, even though they tried on 15 different songs. Arrival was uneven, but had some tunes like Higher Place, To Be Alive Again, and We Will Meet Again that IMO stand up next to most of the band's classic works.

I listen to the two albums and wonder why they couldnt' come up with one song as melodically memorable as "To Be Alive" or FITH or even something like "Not Too Late" for the TBF album.

Holy s**t, are you kidding? If He Should Break Your Heart, Forever In Blue, Still She Cries, When I Think Of You, Easy To Fall, It's Just The Rain, Trial By Fire? Hello? Dude, put down the bong.

saint John wrote:If you listen to Arrival closely, something really stands out. That is, you have "A" musicianship with "C" vocals. They just don't match. THAT is what stopped the album from getting on the radio. I hate to say it, but if you put Perry on that album, let him work his magic, maybe re-arrange a chorus or two, and MOST notably have the interaction with Neal's guitar and his voice, then and only then do you hear Arrival on the radio. The vocals are simply mediocre. ANY one of 50 singers could have matched the vocal efforts of Arrival.

Precisely. Arrival is a good CD but not a great CD, and that's because the vocals are only "good" not Journey great.

7 Wishes wrote:Holy s**t, are you kidding? If He Should Break Your Heart, Forever In Blue, Still She Cries, When I Think Of You, Easy To Fall, It's Just The Rain, Trial By Fire? Hello? Dude, put down the bong.

Great songs from a great CD with outstanding vocals. I have no idea about chart position but When You Love A Woman got lots of radio play and a Grammy nomination, that ain't too shabby. If He Should Break Your Heart was released as a single, but I don't know anything about how well it did.

7 Wishes wrote:Holy s**t, are you kidding? If He Should Break Your Heart, Forever In Blue, Still She Cries, When I Think Of You, Easy To Fall, It's Just The Rain, Trial By Fire? Hello? Dude, put down the bong.

Ditto.

ohsherrie wrote:If He Should Break Your Heart was released as a single, but I don't know anything about how well it did.

IHSBYH was in the Top 40 for 5 weeks and reached the highest position in April 1997 at #25.

"When You Love A Woman" was also in the Top 40 for 13 weeks,reaching the highest position in November 1996 at #4.

AR wrote:
My point being that TBF only had 1 hit.

MOL is the only song on that record that rocks.

Can't Tame The Lion and I Can See It In Your Eyes ROCK!

WalrusOct9 wrote:
I listen to the two albums and wonder why they couldnt' come up with one song as melodically memorable as "To Be Alive" or FITH or even something like "Not Too Late" for the TBF album.

Prolly b/c of Perry. That is going to put some thongs in a wad around here, but I always think about that. Why the melodicrockers of Arrival and Generations seems more immediate, more accessible than their cousins on TBF to me.

They weren't writing that way with Perry during TBF. For whatEVER reason.

Before you let emotion set in and immediately dismiss my submission that the rockers of the Augeri era with elitist laughter, do a little research to Walrus' posts.
He's pretty down the line, if ANYthing I'd say he's partial to classic jrny.

GeneralRedRaider13 wrote:

WalrusOct9 wrote:
I listen to the two albums and wonder why they couldnt' come up with one song as melodically memorable as "To Be Alive" or FITH or even something like "Not Too Late" for the TBF album.

Prolly b/c of Perry. That is going to put some thongs in a wad around here, but I always think about that. Why the melodicrockers of Arrival and Generations seems more immediate, more accessible than their cousins on TBF to me.

They weren't writing that way with Perry during TBF.

TBF is a different album,with a different feel compared to the previous ones.IMO,it reflects the mood that the trio(SP/NS/JC) was in at the time.
They wrote those tunes together,isolated at The Site...Must've been some tension there.Creative or not.

Then I was reading a Generations review the other day and was said there that many songs were penned by Augeri,Neal was in and out the studio all the time etc.Not much team work like on TBF,maybe not so much artistic friction,so perhaps that's the reason why they sound more accesible.

Just guessing.

GeneralRedRaider13 wrote:Ah.
Count 1 vote for Neal as the culprit I guess.

Reset your counter.I didn't say that at all.
I was merely pointing out the songwriting circumstances in which the 2 albums were put together.

Nice job "General",maybe I should start deleting too.Looks weird.

You should delete that fucking "book" advertisement in your sig.

Let me just say I hardly think Neal was the main reason the rockers are simpler and catchier on Arrival and Gens than TBF.
perry by every account held incredible sway over musical direction and was absent for the Arrival and Genertations sessions. Not rocket science.