MR

It's been awhile so I thought I'd bore everyone with another of my long-winded, arrogant blatherings.

JOURNEY's 2nd release Look Into The Future introduced the sphere/disk motif into their cover art. A sphere or disk has appeared on every album since.

The Time3 cover is very compelling. Of course, it's a 3 CD collection that captures the legacy of JOURNEY's recording history from 1975-1986. This packaging is perhaps reminiscent of a 3-sphere. In mathematics, a 3-sphere is a higher-dimensional analogue of a sphere. It consists of the locus of points equidistant from a fixed central point in 4-dimensional Euclidean space. An ordinary sphere (or 2-sphere) is a two dimensional surface while a 3-sphere is an object with three dimensions, known as a 3-manifold.

A 3-sphere is also called a hypersphere, although the term hypersphere can in general represent any n-sphere for n ≥ 3.

As theorized, the Poincare Conjecture says that a three-dimensional sphere is the only enclosed three-dimensional space with no holes. Proof of this conjecture has eluded scientists since it was formulated by the French mathematician Henri Poincare in 1904 however, Russian math genius Dr. Grigory Perelman may have solved it.

I suppose I find this interesting as Time3 is perhaps a symbolic embodiment of all of this.

I've always been fascinated with spheres and the circular nature of the Universe - including the cycle of life. I find many references to these things in JOURNEY's work. I suppose that's another of the many reasons that I'm a fan. For my Dream JOURNEY Project I wanted to include something that echoed the sphere/disk/wheel motif. I arrived at the following.

Meridian: on the celestial sphere, the great circle passing through the celestial poles and the observer's zenith. It cuts their horizon N and S. The term is used also for a line of terrestrial longitude. This reflects well the JOURNEYesque references to wheels and spinning such as found in the following songs and lyrics:
>Wheel In The Sky (from Infinity) "...wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'..."

> Still They Ride (from Escape) "...spinnin' 'round in a spell - it's hard to leave this carousel - 'round and 'round and 'round..."

> Faithfully (from Frontiers) "...wheels go 'round and 'round..."

>Higher Place (from Arrival) "My world is spinning, spinning 'round..."

>Walking Away From The Edge (from Red 13) "You don't know how lost you are - until you're spinning out of control..."

>Inner Circles (instrumental from Neal's Late Nite).

>Full Circle (from Jonathan Cain's Back To The Innocence) "So you take a chance, go against the odds and you make the big wheel spin..."

All these and more reference circles and spinning (motion) - what is Infinite, Karmic, Universal, and God.

Spinning in the Circle
‘Round and ‘round and ‘round
Head is reeling - and the feeling
Lost among the found

Looking to the zenith
Eyes up to the sky
Hands are reaching - Time is teaching
Strong enough to fly

CHORUS
Away!
Heavenly ride
On eternal wings
The Circle of Life
Forever spinning - returning again
To the beginning

BRIDGE
For every thing there is a season
And a time to every purpose – meridian

Through infinity
It’s not about control
It’s believing - no deceiving
Free is the Soul

CHORUS
© FyreWyngz, 2005

uh.. love the song lyrics.,, but the first part made my head spin...

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:uh.. love the song lyrics.,, but the first part made my head spin...

LOL! See there! Even your head spins like that proverbial wheel!

FyreWyngz wrote:It's been awhile so I thought I'd bore everyone with another of my long-winded, arrogant blatherings.

JOURNEY's 2nd release Look Into The Future introduced the sphere/disk motif into their cover art. A sphere or disk has appeared on every album since.

The Time3 cover is very compelling. Of course, it's a 3 CD collection that captures the legacy of JOURNEY's recording history from 1975-1986. This packaging is perhaps reminiscent of a 3-sphere. In mathematics, a 3-sphere is a higher-dimensional analogue of a sphere. It consists of the locus of points equidistant from a fixed central point in 4-dimensional Euclidean space. An ordinary sphere (or 2-sphere) is a two dimensional surface while a 3-sphere is an object with three dimensions, known as a 3-manifold.

A 3-sphere is also called a hypersphere, although the term hypersphere can in general represent any n-sphere for n ≥ 3.

As theorized, the Poincare Conjecture says that a three-dimensional sphere is the only enclosed three-dimensional space with no holes. Proof of this conjecture has eluded scientists since it was formulated by the French mathematician Henri Poincare in 1904 however, Russian math genius Dr. Grigory Perelman may have solved it.

I suppose I find this interesting as Time3 is perhaps a symbolic embodiment of all of this.

I've always been fascinated with spheres and the circular nature of the Universe - including the cycle of life. I find many references to these things in JOURNEY's work. I suppose that's another of the many reasons that I'm a fan. For my Dream JOURNEY Project I wanted to include something that echoed the sphere/disk/wheel motif. I arrived at the following.

Meridian: on the celestial sphere, the great circle passing through the celestial poles and the observer's zenith. It cuts their horizon N and S. The term is used also for a line of terrestrial longitude. This reflects well the JOURNEYesque references to wheels and spinning such as found in the following songs and lyrics:
>Wheel In The Sky (from Infinity) "...wheel in the sky keeps on turnin'..."

> Still They Ride (from Escape) "...spinnin' 'round in a spell - it's hard to leave this carousel - 'round and 'round and 'round..."

> Faithfully (from Frontiers) "...wheels go 'round and 'round..."

>Higher Place (from Arrival) "My world is spinning, spinning 'round..."

>Walking Away From The Edge (from Red 13) "You don't know how lost you are - until you're spinning out of control..."

>Inner Circles (instrumental from Neal's Late Nite).

>Full Circle (from Jonathan Cain's Back To The Innocence) "So you take a chance, go against the odds and you make the big wheel spin..."

All these and more reference circles and spinning (motion) - what is Infinite, Karmic, Universal, and God.

Spinning in the Circle
‘Round and ‘round and ‘round
Head is reeling - and the feeling
Lost among the found

Looking to the zenith
Eyes up to the sky
Hands are reaching - Time is teaching
Strong enough to fly

CHORUS
Away!
Heavenly ride
On eternal wings
The Circle of Life
Forever spinning - returning again
To the beginning

BRIDGE
For every thing there is a season
And a time to every purpose – meridian

Through infinity
It’s not about control
It’s believing - no deceiving
Free is the Soul

CHORUS
© FyreWyngz, 2005

Perhaps the most boring post ever. Can we trade you for Brad Delp?

FyreWyngz wrote:

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:uh.. love the song lyrics.,, but the first part made my head spin...

LOL! See there! Even your head spins like that proverbial wheel!

that song needs to be in Dm!! just like "Wheel..." it needs to be played loud!!

Fyre you do crack me up.

Ummm, OK.

That was great Frye. Thanks for posting it. Maybe this will help some now understand some of the references made to spheres thruout the music and some of the symbolism that is contained in the artwork on the albums. I had picked up on many made to the celestial sphere but you called my attention to a couple I had missed, like Cains Full Circle and Walking Away From The Edge ( I havent heard Red 13 ) so thank you for the information. Kudos on the lyrics, wonderful!

TVL wrote:That was great Frye. Thanks for posting it. Maybe this will help some now understand some of the references made to spheres thruout the music and some of the symbolism that is contained in the artwork on the albums. I had picked up on many made to the celestial sphere but you called my attention to a couple I had missed, like Cains Full Circle and Walking Away From The Edge ( I havent heard Red 13 ) so thank you for the information. Kudos on the lyrics, wonderful!

You have got to be shitting me?

You really think the Frig and Schonny sit around and talk spheres and circles? Probably not.

This is hilarious.

RockinDeano wrote:

TVL wrote:That was great Frye. Thanks for posting it. Maybe this will help some now understand some of the references made to spheres thruout the music and some of the symbolism that is contained in the artwork on the albums. I had picked up on many made to the celestial sphere but you called my attention to a couple I had missed, like Cains Full Circle and Walking Away From The Edge ( I havent heard Red 13 ) so thank you for the information. Kudos on the lyrics, wonderful!

You have got to be shitting me?

You really think the Frig and Schonny sit around and talk spheres and circles? Probably not.

This is hilarious.

Yeah Deano, they do it while sitting outside of Area 51, contemplating their next album cover.

RedWingFan wrote:

RockinDeano wrote:

TVL wrote:That was great Frye. Thanks for posting it. Maybe this will help some now understand some of the references made to spheres thruout the music and some of the symbolism that is contained in the artwork on the albums. I had picked up on many made to the celestial sphere but you called my attention to a couple I had missed, like Cains Full Circle and Walking Away From The Edge ( I havent heard Red 13 ) so thank you for the information. Kudos on the lyrics, wonderful!

You have got to be shitting me?

You really think the Frig and Schonny sit around and talk spheres and circles? Probably not.

This is hilarious.

Yeah Deano, they do it while sitting outside of Area 51, contemplating their next album cover.

while at the same time talk about latin flavor double live CD for 2008!! LMAO...

Rick

RockinDeano wrote:

TVL wrote:That was great Frye. Thanks for posting it. Maybe this will help some now understand some of the references made to spheres thruout the music and some of the symbolism that is contained in the artwork on the albums. I had picked up on many made to the celestial sphere but you called my attention to a couple I had missed, like Cains Full Circle and Walking Away From The Edge ( I havent heard Red 13 ) so thank you for the information. Kudos on the lyrics, wonderful!

You have got to be shitting me?

You really think the Frig and Schonny sit around and talk spheres and circles? Probably not.

This is hilarious.

Well, since you are on such good terms with them, why dont you ask them about Wheel In The Sky and what it symbolizes. Not had a deep and meaningful one on one discussion with any of them? Why am I not surprised that you havent caught any of the deeper meaning and the references to the meridian and other spiritual references made even after listening to the music after all these years. Come on Dean, thought you were an authority on all things Journey.

I have got to show this to Schon and Frig and Jeff too. I need to show him a pic of this "dream project" and then watdch him spit beer out when I show him the brains behind the plan.

saint John wrote:...........Perhaps the most boring post ever............

Without a doubt.

TVL wrote:
This is hilarious.

Well, since you are on such good terms then why dont ask them about Wheel In The Sky and what it symbolizes. Not had a deep and meaningful one on one discussion with any of them? Why am I not surprised that you havent caught any of the deeper meaning and the references to the meridian and other spiritual references made even after listening to the music after all these years. Come on Dean, thought you were an authority on all things Journey. [/quote]

Oh I see you have come back and the first thing out of your hole is challenging me again. I see.

Wheel in the Sky was a tune written in '77 and who really cares about the spiritual nature to it? I don't believe in spirituality. It's all bullshit. Zodiaks, horoscopes, they are all big cluster scams. I knew you were into spirituality though.

You're a fucking trip. I mean you freak me the fuck out.

RockinDeano wrote:

TVL wrote:
This is hilarious.

Well, since you are on such good terms then why dont ask them about Wheel In The Sky and what it symbolizes. Not had a deep and meaningful one on one discussion with any of them? Why am I not surprised that you havent caught any of the deeper meaning and the references to the meridian and other spiritual references made even after listening to the music after all these years. Come on Dean, thought you were an authority on all things Journey.

Oh I see you have come back and the first thing out of your hole is challenging me again. I see.

Wheel in the Sky was a tune written in '77 and who really cares about the spiritual nature to it? I don't believe in spirituality. It's all bullshit. Zodiaks, horoscopes, they are all big cluster scams. I knew you were into spirituality though.

You're a fucking trip. I mean you freak me the fuck out.[/quote] It is easy to call what you dont comprehend as being bullshit. What you dont understand you fear and dismiss out of hand, which is unfortunite. Some of us do care about the meaning to the songs, sorry if you dont and cant relate to it. Your lack of depth does not freak me out, just makes me sad that you appear to have none or want to show any if you do.

TVL wrote:

It is easy to call what you dont comprehend as being bullshit. What you dont understand you fear and dismiss out of hand, which is unfortunite. Some of us do care about the meaning to the songs, sorry if you dont and cant relate to it. Your lack of depth does not freak me out, just makes me sad that you appear to have none or want to show any if you do.

I have depth lady, plenty of it. I just don't plan on excercising my "depth of knowledge" on a message board for a band no less.

Meaning of songs? Are you fucking kidding me? Ok, allow me to help.

Anyway You Want It=

TVL's interpretation- "how do you want your eggs?"
Real Meaning- How do you want me to fuck you tonight?

Lovin' Touchin' Squeezin'-=

TVL- Making out on the way to the Museum of Anthropology
Real Meaning-You cheating heartless Bitch.


Lights=

TVL- The spotlights shining on Michaelangelo
Real Meaning-an ode to San Francisco

I have more if you want them.

ohsherrie wrote:

saint John wrote:...........Perhaps the most boring post ever............

Without a doubt.

Thanks! Gives me encouragement to top it!

Dean.......Dont worry, your "depth " and/ or "depth of knowledge" dont show sorry I dont have more time to spend on this or you for that matter. You make it too trivial and I refuse to discuss an important topic on an assinine level....or to help feed your inner demons. Have a good day!

TVL wrote:

RockinDeano wrote:

TVL wrote:That was great Frye. Thanks for posting it. Maybe this will help some now understand some of the references made to spheres thruout the music and some of the symbolism that is contained in the artwork on the albums. I had picked up on many made to the celestial sphere but you called my attention to a couple I had missed, like Cains Full Circle and Walking Away From The Edge ( I havent heard Red 13 ) so thank you for the information. Kudos on the lyrics, wonderful!

You have got to be shitting me?

You really think the Frig and Schonny sit around and talk spheres and circles? Probably not.

This is hilarious.

Well, since you are on such good terms with them, why dont you ask them about Wheel In The Sky and what it symbolizes. Not had a deep and meaningful one on one discussion with any of them? Why am I not surprised that you havent caught any of the deeper meaning and the references to the meridian and other spiritual references made even after listening to the music after all these years. Come on Dean, thought you were an authority on all things Journey.

LOL! That was my first reaction, too!

Ultimately, art is what we make of it. Art is supposed to reflect the human condition which includes spirituality and our relationships with God (however you perceive God to be). I'm not suggesting that JOURNEY implies any of this or that Neal or anyone sat around thinking about it. I'm simply saying that whether intended or not - I see the connections.

Thanks for checking this out. I appreciate your "being caught" by meridian and such - you know, being captured is what it's all about

TVL wrote:That was great Frye. Thanks for posting it. Maybe this will help some now understand some of the references made to spheres thruout the music and some of the symbolism that is contained in the artwork on the albums. I had picked up on many made to the celestial sphere but you called my attention to a couple I had missed, like Cains Full Circle and Walking Away From The Edge ( I havent heard Red 13 ) so thank you for the information. Kudos on the lyrics, wonderful!

Thanks, again! It's my pleasure. I love this stuff. Higher place and all that.

My song Meridian also includes a biblical reference:
BRIDGE
For every thing there is a season
And a time to every purpose – meridian

This is a play on what I find are some of the most moving words in the Bible:
Eccl 3:1
3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
KJV

Ecclesiastes explores the circular nature of things. Very cool stuff.

ezekiel saw a wheel way up in the middle of the sky.....

LarryFromNextDoor wrote:ezekiel saw a wheel way up in the middle of the sky.....

Another fascinating book! The Bible has LOTS of references to this topic. It's the nature of the Universe - cosmic, baby!

Wheel of Life

FyreWyngz wrote: This packaging is perhaps reminiscent of a 3-sphere. In mathematics, a 3-sphere is a higher-dimensional analogue of a sphere. It consists of the locus of points equidistant from a fixed central point in 4-dimensional Euclidean space. An ordinary sphere (or 2-sphere) is a two dimensional surface while a 3-sphere is an object with three dimensions, known as a 3-manifold.

A 3-sphere is also called a hypersphere, although the term hypersphere can in general represent any n-sphere for n ≥ 3.

As theorized, the Poincare Conjecture says that a three-dimensional sphere is the only enclosed three-dimensional space with no holes. Proof of this conjecture has eluded scientists since it was formulated by the French mathematician Henri Poincare in 1904 however, Russian math genius Dr. Grigory Perelman may have solved it.

Yep, all EXACTLY what Neal had in mind, too.

He also contemplated and deciphered pythagorean theorem at a soundcheck one day and routinely figures out Pi 32 decimal places out just to stay mentally agile.

FyreWyngz wrote:

TVL wrote:That was great Frye. Thanks for posting it. Maybe this will help some now understand some of the references made to spheres thruout the music and some of the symbolism that is contained in the artwork on the albums. I had picked up on many made to the celestial sphere but you called my attention to a couple I had missed, like Cains Full Circle and Walking Away From The Edge ( I havent heard Red 13 ) so thank you for the information. Kudos on the lyrics, wonderful!

Thanks, again! It's my pleasure. I love this stuff. Higher place and all that.

My song Meridian also includes a biblical reference:
BRIDGE
For every thing there is a season
And a time to every purpose – meridian

This is a play on what I find are some of the most moving words in the Bible:
Eccl 3:1
3:1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
KJV

Ecclesiastes explores the circular nature of things. Very cool stuff.

Um, Fyre, that verse has already been written into a song. It's called Turn, Turn, Turn by The Birds in 1967 or 68.

Dean you may want to ask Neal who was into and had the idea to represent the esoteric in the symbolism on the album covers, in some of the songs, and in the titles of the albums. Who had the idea?....Herbie was the one with the names picked out for the albums and the artwork and symbols to be used, wasnt he?....Then there are some of the songs.....did Schon, Perry or any of the band also get into the metaphysical themselves and write it into the music or were they mainly influenced to it by Herbie? Here is a link for you to check out if you want to read a more informed, in depth, and reasoned research and study on this subject then what either you or I can volley. Although conclusions are trying to be drawn by the authors themselves, thereby contradicting what they have perceived to be flaws in some esoteric representations, in some cases, like the wheel of life from buddist teachings, it is a very interesting study and debate. Notice the animated scarab on the front page.
www.kheper.net

These guys are deep man, DEEP.

I mean like, way out there like fucking PLUTO, man (sorry, watched Lethal Weapon I last night, always like that line).

We can't even fathom the leagues of brillance involved in this utter THINKTANK of a band.


They changed the title of the demo "Stoned In Love" to Stone In Love.


I gotta lie down now.

GeneralRedRaider13 wrote:These guys are deep man, DEEP.

I mean like, way out there like fucking PLUTO, man (sorry, watched Lethal Weapon I last night, always like that line).

We can't even fathom the leagues of brillance involved in this utter THINKTANK of a band.


They changed the title of the demo "Stoned In Love" to Stone In Love.


I gotta lie down now.

Don't hurt yourself 13.

I'm sure all this symbolism goes about as deep as Herbie's hippiedom. As in Psychodelic Wheel.

GeneralRedRaider13 wrote:These guys are deep man, DEEP.

From Time 3 re: Wheel In The Sky:

Diane Valory, wife of Journey bassist, had a poem that included "the wheels in my head keep turning," which guitarist Schon changed to "wheel in the sky" ("whatever that means," he said)...