MR

I just got done watching the After The Fall segment in Frontiers and Beyond. That said, I couldn't help but notice how happy Herbie was. The guys were jamming, Perry was awesome and the road crew was totally into it. Then I was quickly reminded of Herbie's "I wouldn't piss down Steve Perry's throat if his heart was on fire" comment. Where does that come from? Hamburger Herbie admitted that he was the only one NOT bound by the "gag" order. If that is so, what did Perry do that was so wrong that one would make such a publicly disparaging comment. At least tell us. Don't continue to make yourself look like a bitter jackoff because you were fired. Yeah, you did a good job managing Journey....but guess what dude, you had the benefit of timing, musicianship second to none, and chemistry perhaps unparalleled. And it WAS Rolie that suggested Cain be added in his absence if I remember correctly. Perry could VERY easily be as unprofessional as Herbie and lament on how Herbie overtoured the band and changed Perry's voice. But he hasn't...ever. He showed his versatility as a great artist and adapted to his "new" voice. They owe each other a great deal, that is a fact. And no one HAS to get along. It's just a shame that Herbie chooses to spew words of bitterness during the few moments that he's NOT eating.

saint John wrote:I just got done watching the After The Fall segment in Frontiers and Beyond. That said, I couldn't help but notice how happy Herbie was. The guys were jamming, Perry was awesome and the road crew was totally into it. Then I was quickly reminded of Herbie's "I wouldn't piss down Steve Perry's throat if his heart was on fire" comment. Where does that come from? Hamburger Herbie admitted that he was the only one NOT bound by the "gag" order. If that is so, what did Perry do that was so wrong that one would make such a publicly disparaging comment. At least tell us. Don't continue to make yourself look like a bitter jackoff because you were fired. Yeah, you did a good job managing Journey....but guess what dude, you had the benefit of timing, musicianship second to none, and chemistry perhaps unparalleled. And it WAS Rolie that suggested Cain be added in his absence if I remember correctly. Perry could VERY easily be as unprofessional as Herbie and lament on how Herbie overtoured the band and changed Perry's voice. But he hasn't...ever. He showed his versatility as a great artist and adapted to his "new" voice. They owe each other a great deal, that is a fact. And no one HAS to get along. It's just a shame that Herbie chooses to spew words of bitterness during the few moments that he's NOT eating.

Herbie and Pat Morrow were caught spending the bands money very lavishly while he kept them on the road and in the dark.Herbie had bought a very expensive house in Orinda that no one in the band was to ever know about. Also leased 3 expensive cars without the bands ok. Long story the accountant spilled the beans to an employee and he told SP and the shit hit the fan.. He confronted Herbie ,and Herbie thinks he is always right and is obnoxious while letting you know............

Cate wrote:Herbie and Pat Morrow were caught spending the bands money very lavishly while he kept them on the road and in the dark.Herbie had bought a very expensive house in Orinda that no one in the band was to ever know about. Also leased 3 expensive cars without the bands ok. Long story the accountant spilled the beans to an employee and he told SP and the shit hit the fan.. He confronted Herbie ,and Hebie thinks he is always right.

Please go on with the long version, very interesting!

saint John wrote:I just got done watching the After The Fall segment in Frontiers and Beyond. That said, I couldn't help but notice how happy Herbie was. The guys were jamming, Perry was awesome and the road crew was totally into it. Then I was quickly reminded of Herbie's "I wouldn't piss down Steve Perry's throat if his heart was on fire" comment. Where does that come from? Hamburger Herbie admitted that he was the only one NOT bound by the "gag" order. If that is so, what did Perry do that was so wrong that one would make such a publicly disparaging comment. At least tell us. Don't continue to make yourself look like a bitter jackoff because you were fired. Yeah, you did a good job managing Journey....but guess what dude, you had the benefit of timing, musicianship second to none, and chemistry perhaps unparalleled. And it WAS Rolie that suggested Cain be added in his absence if I remember correctly. Perry could VERY easily be as unprofessional as Herbie and lament on how Herbie overtoured the band and changed Perry's voice. But he hasn't...ever. He showed his versatility as a great artist and adapted to his "new" voice. They owe each other a great deal, that is a fact. And no one HAS to get along. It's just a shame that Herbie chooses to spew words of bitterness during the few moments that he's NOT eating.

I can't say I agree with your post.

Dean, your AV back to bible-thumping? What no Easter finery?

Cate wrote:Herbie and Pat Morrow were caught spending the bands money very lavishly while he kept them on the road and in the dark.Herbie had bought a very expensive house in Orinda that no one in the band was to ever know about. Also leased 3 expensive cars without the bands ok. Long story the accountant spilled the beans to an employee and he told SP and the shit hit the fan.. He confronted Herbie ,and Herbie thinks he is always right and is obnoxious while letting you know............

Wow. Very pointed. I hope to Hell you are not making up any bullshit. Of course you won't use your real name, hiding behind an fictitional name.
I would be very leery accusing Mr. Herbert of any wrongdoing, be it behind a fake moniker or whatever.

RockinDeano wrote:

saint John wrote:I just got done watching the After The Fall segment in Frontiers and Beyond. That said, I couldn't help but notice how happy Herbie was. The guys were jamming, Perry was awesome and the road crew was totally into it. Then I was quickly reminded of Herbie's "I wouldn't piss down Steve Perry's throat if his heart was on fire" comment. Where does that come from? Hamburger Herbie admitted that he was the only one NOT bound by the "gag" order. If that is so, what did Perry do that was so wrong that one would make such a publicly disparaging comment. At least tell us. Don't continue to make yourself look like a bitter jackoff because you were fired. Yeah, you did a good job managing Journey....but guess what dude, you had the benefit of timing, musicianship second to none, and chemistry perhaps unparalleled. And it WAS Rolie that suggested Cain be added in his absence if I remember correctly. Perry could VERY easily be as unprofessional as Herbie and lament on how Herbie overtoured the band and changed Perry's voice. But he hasn't...ever. He showed his versatility as a great artist and adapted to his "new" voice. They owe each other a great deal, that is a fact. And no one HAS to get along. It's just a shame that Herbie chooses to spew words of bitterness during the few moments that he's NOT eating.

I can't say I agree with your post.

Please elaborate. I've had a lot of questions myself as to HH's bitterness. I read that whole interview where HH spewed at Perry, Cain and Valory. The end result is that the band members are still there, Perry could have been if he wanted, and HH is out.

Not enough time, plus I am trying to figure out how to slam Perry without pissing off two friends.

Herbie is still partners with Schon, so he doesn't get bad mouthed (as much). Herbie is bitter that much people can agree on, but ( I can't believe this) I'm agreeing with Deano. IF any of it's true then it's a good story and should be told, if it's not, watch out. Then again, since you probably are not Perry, Herbert or Morrow, what are teh chances that ANY of the story is true?

Cate wrote:]
Herbie and Pat Morrow were caught spending the bands money very lavishly while he kept them on the road and in the dark.Herbie had bought a very expensive house in Orinda that no one in the band was to ever know about. Also leased 3 expensive cars without the bands ok. Long story the accountant spilled the beans to an employee and he told SP and the shit hit the fan.. He confronted Herbie ,and Herbie thinks he is always right and is obnoxious while letting you know............

Wow. Very pointed. I hope to Hell you are not making up any bullshit. Of course you won't use your real name, hiding behind an fictitional name.
I would be very leery accusing Mr. Herbert of any wrongdoing, be it behind a fake moniker or whatever.








This has been common knowledge for years since it did occur in the 80's. I am not hiding behind a fake name. Maybe you should ask Neal or Ross ....

Maybe I will ask him.

The person to ask is CJ. She definitely knows her Herbie history.

whocares wrote:Herbie is still partners with Schon, so he doesn't get bad mouthed (as much). Herbie is bitter that much people can agree on, but ( I can't believe this) I'm agreeing with Deano. IF any of it's true then it's a good story and should be told, if it's not, watch out. Then again, since you probably are not Perry, Herbert or Morrow, what are teh chances that ANY of the story is true?

No , I am not Perry, Herbert, or Morrow.........There is plenty more to this story and other stories .
Do you really think that Herbie is above anything. Herbie has held grudges and has badmouthed former associates
for decades, those who chose not to continue to do buisness with him. BTW, Pat Morrow was fired and did not retire as Herbie stated.
What should I watch out for ????

RockinDeano wrote:

saint John wrote:I just got done watching the After The Fall segment in Frontiers and Beyond. That said, I couldn't help but notice how happy Herbie was. The guys were jamming, Perry was awesome and the road crew was totally into it. Then I was quickly reminded of Herbie's "I wouldn't piss down Steve Perry's throat if his heart was on fire" comment. Where does that come from? Hamburger Herbie admitted that he was the only one NOT bound by the "gag" order. If that is so, what did Perry do that was so wrong that one would make such a publicly disparaging comment. At least tell us. Don't continue to make yourself look like a bitter jackoff because you were fired. Yeah, you did a good job managing Journey....but guess what dude, you had the benefit of timing, musicianship second to none, and chemistry perhaps unparalleled. And it WAS Rolie that suggested Cain be added in his absence if I remember correctly. Perry could VERY easily be as unprofessional as Herbie and lament on how Herbie overtoured the band and changed Perry's voice. But he hasn't...ever. He showed his versatility as a great artist and adapted to his "new" voice. They owe each other a great deal, that is a fact. And no one HAS to get along. It's just a shame that Herbie chooses to spew words of bitterness during the few moments that he's NOT eating.

I can't say I agree with your post.

Wow I agree with Deano too on this one. Together with the band they made a lot of history. Many firsts. I have a lot of respect for the man. Let's face it there was a lot of bad blood. But I respect all of them for the things they did together.

Cate was just answering St. John's question to the internet world... Sounds plausible to me; I guess Herbie did a good job, but why is it so unthinkable that he might have done some of those things? I don't think it's embezzlement or anything like that, do you? Anyway, I thought that was very interesting...

Great thread. Would love to hear more about the not so nice side of Herbert. Mind you was there ever a nice side? I have always thought that apart from his input into the band (which was good), the guy was just some lying, fat donut eating fuckin prick to be honest.

I have always had a problem believing folks that go around
trashing others and praising themselves, I don't believe to
much of what Herbert has said.

I have heard from people that know him, good people, that Herbie is a great guy. People are so quick to judge others without really knowing much about them. Let's face it, none of them or us for that matter are saints. It's not fair to judge on hearsay....

The Fly wrote:Let's face it, none of them or us for that matter are saints. It's not fair to judge on hearsay....

I feel that way to but have formed an opinion on Herbert
for the harsh words he uses towards others, it's a mistake
in his delivery, not my judgement.

Herbie is a good guy to some, and an asshole to others. What difference does it make since it's been way over a decade or two since he has been relevant in the music industry at all?

The Fly wrote:It's not fair to judge on hearsay....

Moonbeam responded by saying:

I feel that way to but have formed an opinion on Herbert


Is that not a conflicting comment?

for the harsh words he uses towards others, it's a mistake
in his delivery, not my judgement.

I know all about delivery, probably better than anyone here. Delivery is not the problem; If HH pulled that shit, then yes he is a prick. Cate, I was playing Devils' advocate. If what you are saying is true, I for one want to know more. I am not going to simply deny deny deny, like many did with TG because of a guys delivery.

I don't know if any of these major players, HH, SP or NS are innocent of anything. I would like to take Herbies Castles interview as gospel. He hasn't a reason to lie. Having said that, he did slam the boys pretty good. Don't you think if he did something that bad, they wouldn't be all over his fat ass legally? Or maybe, they all decided, wisely, that the past is the past and bringing up negativity is not healthy.

I've heard too about those things that Cate wrote about.I have no doubt that there must be a serious reason why HH is still pissed about the past.

There are 2 reasons (always the same since the beginning of showbiz) why rock bands & managers split up and hate eachother's guts :Money or Women.I believe the former was a big issue in this case,cuz it was serious money involved in the Journey factory.

RockinDeano wrote:

The Fly wrote:It's not fair to judge on hearsay....

Moonbeam responded by saying:

I feel that way to but have formed an opinion on Herbert


Is that not a conflicting comment?

for the harsh words he uses towards others, it's a mistake
in his delivery, not my judgement.

Nope, not to me Dean'o I was agreeing that none of
us are Saint's, you decided to leave that lil part out though.
Don't play me for a fool.

Without knowing details, I think most of the bitterness would come from Perry orchestrating HH's dismissal. Simple as that.

We DO know that Perry wanted Irving in and HH out and that was a condition upon his participation in the TBF reunion.

jrnyman28 wrote:Without knowing details, I think most of the bitterness would come from Perry orchestrating HH's dismissal. Simple as that.

We DO know that Perry wanted Irving in and HH out and that was a condition upon his participation in the TBF reunion.

Which I think was a huge mistake, although the outcome of TBF would probably have been the same.

Shania wrote:I've heard too about those things that Cate wrote about.I have no doubt that there must be a serious reason why HH is still pissed about the past.

There are 2 reasons (always the same since the beginning of showbiz) why rock bands & managers split up and hate eachother's guts :Money or Women.I believe the former was a big issue in this case,cuz it was serious money involved in the Journey factory.

You must have inside sources if you wrote a book about Steve. What does your inside track say, anonymous of course?

Moon Beam wrote:

Nope, not to me Dean'o I was agreeing that none of
us are Saint's, you decided to leave that lil part out though.
Don't play me for a fool.

Not playing you for a fool at all. However, how can you say that you don't judge people on heresay, but yet you formed an opinion? What?

jrnyman28 wrote:Without knowing details, I think most of the bitterness would come from Perry orchestrating HH's dismissal. Simple as that.

We DO know that Perry wanted Irving in and HH out and that was a condition upon his participation in the TBF reunion.

This post surely holds some interesting bite. Why would Perry want HH out, after all the HUGE success? Maybe because Perry knew he was going to burn the band and leave, and didn't want Herbie, who is strongminded, to object? Let's face the truth here. Perry premeditated his departure. TBF was made with him knowing full well he wasn't stepping on a single stage. People were burned, Neal and Jon included. Herbie wasn't there to step in and take control. This whole thing was a predetermined cout d tat.

Before any of you come back with the, "Herbie had said he would have cut Perry loose" just remember, the TBF tour was going to make those boys richer than God. Hell yes Herbie would cut Perry loose, knowing then what he knows now. Wouldn't you? The guy was obviously a wedge, unhealthy for the band, and in many ways wasn't worth his talent.

This whole debacle now leaves a bitter taste in my mouth about Perry. Aside from his super talent, why does he have to be such a prick?

Egos abounded in this band. That was there downfall.

jrnyman28 wrote:
We DO know that Perry wanted Irving in and HH out and that was a condition upon his participation in the TBF reunion.

I think that was the straw that broke the camel's back,Dave.I think their releationship was already tensed from the 80's and that decision was the end of it.

I think SP knew that he and HH would have not got along during TBF,so maybe this was the reason why Irving was a better choice.JMO.

Shania wrote:
I think SP knew that he and HH would have not got along during TBF,so maybe this was the reason why Irving was a better choice.JMO.

Perry had NO intention of touring in support of TBF, so your point is moot.

RockinDeano wrote:

Shania wrote:
I think SP knew that he and HH would have not got along during TBF,so maybe this was the reason why Irving was a better choice.JMO.

Perry had NO intention of touring in support of TBF, so your point is moot.

And you cannot possibly KNOW what were Steve's intentions or what really happened,so your point is moot aussi.