OT: In The Long Run

[Crazie Scarab]

Obviously, the American people are pretty evenly split on what should be done regarding the war on terrorism. More specifically, the theatre of action currently taking place in Iraq.

I believe we, as a nation, should fully support our efforts in Iraq. We are doing much better there than the media would have anyone believe. For some reason, there are a lot of people who see nothing but defeat.

I would like to take a moment to share a thought I had recently.

Primarily, it is the liberals who suggest that we can't win in Iraq, nor that we should continue the effort there. My belief is that the only way we can lose a war, is by choosing not to win it in the first place.

Have the Islam extremist broken our will to defend ourselves?

Maybe so. However, it will only be temporary.

You see, there is every reason to suspect that the war will be brought home here in the U.S., if we decide to pull out of Iraq prematurely. If that happens, you can count on the Islam extremists, AKA, al qaeda to continue their efforts here in the streets of cities and in our hometowns.

Will that open up many closed eyes?

I believe so.

I believe the Democrat party is sealing there defeat for many, many years, or decades ahead by supporting a time-line withdrawl from Iraq.

Personally, I hope the war never comes here. However, they have sworn death to all infidels. I believe with every ounce of me they are serious.

What do you think?

[RedWingFan]

Obviously, the American people are pretty evenly split on what should be done regarding the war on terrorism. More specifically, the theatre of action currently taking place in Iraq.

I believe we, as a nation, should fully support our efforts in Iraq. We are doing much better there than the media would have anyone believe. For some reason, there are a lot of people who see nothing but defeat.

I would like to take a moment to share a thought I had recently.

Primarily, it is the liberals who suggest that we can't win in Iraq, nor that we should continue the effort there. My belief is that the only way we can lose a war, is by choosing not to win it in the first place.

Have the Islam extremist broken our will to defend ourselves?

Maybe so. However, it will only be temporary.

You see, there is every reason to suspect that the war will be brought home here in the U.S., if we decide to pull out of Iraq prematurely. If that happens, you can count on the Islam extremists, AKA, al qaeda to continue their efforts here in the streets of cities and in our hometowns.

Will that open up many closed eyes?

I believe so.

I believe the Democrat party is sealing there defeat for many, many years, or decades ahead by supporting a time-line withdrawl from Iraq.

Personally, I hope the war never comes here. However, they have sworn death to all infidels. I believe with every ounce of me they are serious.

What do you think?

I believe you are right on the money, but more than half the people on this board will insist, that we just need to talk to them be their friends!

[CatEyes]

I think that as long as people keep judging other groups of people with such broad brush strokes, we are in serious trouble.

Instead of very easily and neatly putting people with whom you disagree in one box, try looking around - you might be surprised at the differences that can be found.

I don't mind being bitched at for my beliefs or opinions - but never bitch at me because of an assumption. I may or may not be the only person who feels that way. I don't care.

Know me at least just a little bit.

Yes I am a democrat.

Yes I am a liberal.

No I do not believe in capital punishment

Yes I firmly believe in torture (keep 'em alive and let them beg - someone once told me I had that trait because cats love to play with their food - )

I demonstrated against the war in Viet Nam where I lost many friends, classmates and a fiance - got called all kinds of names, eggs thrown at me, shot at by the National Guard and pepper sprayed. Have a great FBI dossier. Now everyone says they were against it - because it is cool - bullshit.

I completely support our troops in Iraq - and I want them to come home safely and now.

I have never and will never support the decisions that were made that put our troops there in harm's way - especially since it was just reported that MORE young men and women are being sent and the current tours of duty are being extended to 15 months.

No I do not believe that my liberal democratic views have sentenced us all to burn in hell - if the terrorists attack us it is because THEY decided to, THEY want to - I did NOT drive them to the airport in the limo of liberalism. They don't even know (or care) what I think.

I feel that people who refuse to discuss viewpoints other than their own and try to demean or demoralize anyone who disagrees with them should be the last people protected under this "free speech" everyone loves to talk about.

But that's just me.

I will not try to change anyone's POV on this to agree with mine - I will try to learn from theirs

However, as a precaution, I am wearing my asbestos underwear -

Cat

[Rockindeano]

You have got to be fucking kidding?

Wrong on EVERY count.(the author of this thread)

Yeah, let's blindly follow the recklessness and incompetence that our faithful leader has taken us into....disaster.

Fuck you, and fuck this administration. I do NOT support the effort in Iraq, and call me whatever you want, but we can NOT win there, unless we do it decisively, and that is to drop a nuclear or nuetron warhead and destroy the entire state of Iraq.

I love how you republicans spin that we are taking the war to them, and if we pull out they will bring it to us. The amount of money we are spending over there could be used as prevention here...much more so and much more effective. hell, right now, our ports aren't protected, neither is air or rail or highway for that matter, We are vulnerable here at home. They will devise another plan and will be able to execute it here because of so many holes in our homeland defense. Jesus, you have any idea how much further the money would go here rather than there?

All this spin bullshit about fighting them over there is bullshit. It is a backup "excuse" to use when the incompetence of the invasions was exposed..a safeguard statement to use if we failed in the original wave of attacks. We had a bunch of money hungry jerkoffs (Bush, Cheney and Wolfowitz) playing war with America's kids(not there own), and they half assed it. Fuck this Administration and fuck this president. He fucked us. Have you forgotten Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11? That thought has at least been admitted by the president, but his VP spins it differently.

No way. Bring them home. We lost this war. Just pray to your god of choice Iran doesn't want to play or we are in deep serious trouble, not to mention North Korea.

Iraq could have been "won" had we had competence, but we were led in there on a lie. We went there when the president had his best soldier, Colin Powell go before the United Nations and lie about res 1441, and Rice continued it after Powell left out of embarrassment.

Bring them home in 2008. No if's and's or but's.

PS- I love how this failure is the fault of the Democrats who weren't in power in any of the three houses. What you republicans won't do and say to attain your corrupt and incompetent agenda. Fuck the republicans...All of them. And Al and Jesse too.


...Fucking ridicilous.


PS- and before any one of you calls me a fucking pussy liberal Democrat, I served in the military and was in Desert Shield and Desert Storm.

[Crazie Scarab]

You have got to be fucking kidding?

Fuck you.

Well, I expected that from you. It didn't take long, either, I see.

[Matthew]

You see, there is every reason to suspect that the war will be brought home here in the U.S., if we decide to pull out of Iraq prematurely. If that happens, you can count on the Islam extremists, AKA, al qaeda to continue their efforts here in the streets of cities and in our hometowns.

Will that open up many closed eyes?

I believe so.

Well, the War in Iraq didn't stop Islamic extremists from blowing up the London underground in 2005. If anything it motivated them....

[Rockindeano]

Oh I'm sorry Brian, let me go out and buy a couple yellow ribbon car magnets and say Go W! Is that what you want me to say? Does it make me less patriotic to question this son of a bitch lying president?

If you are looking for "yes men" count me out.

[sindee67]

We need to do what we can for our country and our men and women over there.
They are doing a ton of good over there. Girls that couldn't go to school, GO TO SCHOOL
They have women in college now, and children go to school and sit in desks, not BOMBs!
Whether you like it or not, they are there, and they are going to be there for awhile.
I very much support our president, because he's just that, OUR PRESIDENT.
I loathed Clinton, but, because he was OUR PRESIDENT, I respected that and him.

I also believe that the GENERALS and NOT THE CONGRESS should dictate how that war is ran.
Send the damn money, so our MEN AND WOMEN can come home quicker!

[Saint John]

Democrats simply poll watch. If the polls had the U.S. and the rest of the world behind the war, you can bet your ass Democrats would be applauding the effort in Iraq. The fact that president isn't guided by poll numbers and growing skepticism is something I respect. The only thing democrats are willing to tough out is decades of giving those who don't work MORE welfare, making sure rapists and killers DON'T get the death penalty, killing unborn children, and fighting for men who butt-fuck other men to have the right to marry. I won't even get started on Affirmitve Action and its race hustlers.

How backwards is this. There's a lady 10 weeks pregnant walking down the street. I, knowing she's pregnant, walk up to her and kick her in the stomach as hard as I can. Obviously, I'm arrested and charged with the death of an unborn child. HOWEVER, if the lady who got pregnant goes and has an abortion, it's called the right to choose. What's the fuckin' difference? Nice party. Support keeping killers alive, support killing innocent unborns, support men who are cocksuckers (is that 2 words or one?) and reward people who don't work. I think I'll pass on that party. I wonder how many of you democrats were out there with "Save Tookie Williams" signs? I enjoyed a shot and a beer when they fried that scumbag. Watching all of the liberals cry was awesome.

[RedWingFan]

Yeah, let's blindly follow the recklessness and incompetence that our faithful leader has taken us into....disaster.

No, disaster would have been the estimated 10,000 bodybags that the liberal media told us we'd need to take Baghdad

Fuck you, and fuck this administration. I do NOT support the effort in Iraq, and call me whatever you want, but we can NOT win there

Okay you're an owner of defeat! Congratulations!

I love how you republicans spin that we are taking the war to them, and if we pull out they will bring it to us. The amount of money we are spending over there could be used as prevention here...much more so and much more effective. hell, right now, our ports aren't protected, neither is air or rail or highway for that matter, We are vulnerable here at home. They will devise another plan and will be able to execute it here because of so many holes in our homeland defense. Jesus, you have any idea how much further the money would go here rather than there?

Geeze from their memos that have been captured between their leaders they bemoan the fact that their communications and organazation has been crippled. I can send you some links if I have time to dig them up.

All this spin bullshit about fighting them over there is bullshit. It is a backup "excuse" to use when the incompetence of the invasions was exposed..a safeguard statement to use if we failed in the original wave of attacks.

Again I point to the 7,000 empty bodybags!!! We're not perfect but the allies did a pretty good job with the invasion and dealing with the vaunted Royal National Guard.

Have you forgotten Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11?

It doesn't matter we went into Iraq because we had the best excuse with all the violated resolutions! So you're saying the terrorists we are killing there aren't terrorists????? I don't care where we kill them as long as they assume room or cave temperature

No way. Bring them home. We lost this war. Just pray to your god of choice Iran doesn't want to play or we are in deep serious trouble, not to mention North Korea.

oooh scary.. Dude, were the US of fuckin' A...alright. The only way we lose is when libs lose for us, talking of pulling out and crap. Besides North Korea was given Nuclear technology for energy uses while they're sitting on oil rich land, by dingbat Albright and Clinton

Iraq could have been "won" had we had competence, but we were led in there on a lie. We went there when the president had his best soldier, Colin Powell go before the United Nations and lie about res 1441, and Rice continued it after Powell left out of embarrassment.

Again all the intelligence pointed to WMD's. It still does, again if a weatherman uses all of his data and forcasts rain, and it doesn't. Does that make him a liar

[ohsherrie]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

There is no reason for our people to be dying there now except W's ego.

All that's happening there now is a damned civil war that they'll fight whether we're there or not. The only difference is, our people won't be getting killed if they're not there.

The war we need to be fighting is now and has always been in Afghanistan.

If we keep fucking with Irag we're very soon going to have to fuck with Iran. Where are the people to fight it going to come from? Are we going to start drafting kids to die? Think about it. Are we going to send our children, against their will, to fight an unjust war? If you say yes, then you're either not a parent or not human. Let Jenna and Barbara be the first sacrifices.

[strangegrey]

I think both sides have this wrong....

Unfortunately, the only side Repubs can take, is squarely behind W's Ass. (which incidentally, is what he's been using for a brain for quite some time). The dems do indeed poll watch...and that's a slippery slope, when you've got troops in forward positions.

I think Iraq and to a large extent, our Middle East policy, has been a cluster fuck for quite some time.....and cutting our losses might just be the best thing to do.

Would that result in terrorism here? That's a tough fucking question...It all really depends on whether you believe Dubya, Rice and Dicky and the intelligence community were intentionally looking the other way when 911 was put into play a few weeks/months before.

The more I read on this subject, the more I'm convinced that 911 became a convenient pretext for reshaping the middle east, much like Pearl Harbor was a good excuse to finally get into WWII...

[whocares]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

There is no reason for our people to be dying there now except W's ego.

All that's happening there now is a damned civil war that they'll fight whether we're there or not. The only difference is, our people won't be getting killed if they're not there.

The war we need to be fighting is now and has always been in Afghanistan.

If we keep fucking with Irag we're very soon going to have to fuck with Iran. Where are the people to fight it going to come from? Are we going to start drafting kids to die? Think about it. Are we going to send our children, against their will, to fight an unjust war? If you say yes, then you're either not a parent or not human. Let Jenna and Barbara be the first sacrifices.

you aren't tooooo far off. Politicains have been throwing the idea of the draft coming back, for a while now. Obviously the ones who want the draft are the ones who never were drafted into service or don't have children old enough to be drafted.

OIL, is the reason we're in Iraq. Anyone who believes it's because of Terrorism, and 9/11 specifically, is fucking crazy.

W, is already labeled the worst President in U.S. History, he has nothing more to lose, when he has that title, therefore he will never concede that it was a stupid idea to go fuck up yet another country.

[Manarocks]

You have got to be fucking kidding?

Wrong on EVERY count.(the author of this thread)

Yeah, let's blindly follow the recklessness and incompetence that our faithful leader has taken us into....disaster.

Fuck you, and fuck this administration. I do NOT support the effort in Iraq, and call me whatever you want, but we can NOT win there, unless we do it decisively, and that is to drop a nuclear or nuetron warhead and destroy the entire state of Iraq.

I love how you republicans spin that we are taking the war to them, and if we pull out they will bring it to us. The amount of money we are spending over there could be used as prevention here...much more so and much more effective. hell, right now, our ports aren't protected, neither is air or rail or highway for that matter, We are vulnerable here at home. They will devise another plan and will be able to execute it here because of so many holes in our homeland defense. Jesus, you have any idea how much further the money would go here rather than there?

All this spin bullshit about fighting them over there is bullshit. It is a backup "excuse" to use when the incompetence of the invasions was exposed..a safeguard statement to use if we failed in the original wave of attacks. We had a bunch of money hungry jerkoffs (Bush, Cheney and Wolfowitz) playing war with America's kids(not there own), and they half assed it. Fuck this Administration and fuck this president. He fucked us. Have you forgotten Iraq had NOTHING to do with 9/11? That thought has at least been admitted by the president, but his VP spins it differently.

No way. Bring them home. We lost this war. Just pray to your god of choice Iran doesn't want to play or we are in deep serious trouble, not to mention North Korea.

Iraq could have been "won" had we had competence, but we were led in there on a lie. We went there when the president had his best soldier, Colin Powell go before the United Nations and lie about res 1441, and Rice continued it after Powell left out of embarrassment.

Bring them home in 2008. No if's and's or but's.

PS- I love how this failure is the fault of the Democrats who weren't in power in any of the three houses. What you republicans won't do and say to attain your corrupt and incompetent agenda. Fuck the republicans...All of them. And Al and Jesse too.


...Fucking ridicilous.


PS- and before any one of you calls me a fucking pussy liberal Democrat, I served in the military and was in Desert Shield and Desert Storm.

Al and jesse are loyal democrats. "Fuck the republicans...All of them," Wow man you are a true liberal. Deano get your facts straight before bitching about being lied about Iraq.

[Rockindeano]

Al and Jesse aren't loyal Democrats. They are loyal leaches. Please, because they associate with the Dems, we aren't all bad.
They just have no other place to go. They are pissed because Clinton really didn't embrace them.

My facts are straighter than I-5 through California.....and trust me, Ray fuckin' Charles can drive that highway without worry.

I do hate all republicans, deep down. I can't ever subscribe to their bullshit way of "thinking."

[whocares]

Sharpton and Jackson, if LOYAL Dems, are embarrassments to Dems. They aren't loyal Dems, they just aren't accepted by Republicans.

[strangegrey]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

There is no reason for our people to be dying there now except W's ego.

All that's happening there now is a damned civil war that they'll fight whether we're there or not. The only difference is, our people won't be getting killed if they're not there.

The war we need to be fighting is now and has always been in Afghanistan.

If we keep fucking with Irag we're very soon going to have to fuck with Iran. Where are the people to fight it going to come from? Are we going to start drafting kids to die? Think about it. Are we going to send our children, against their will, to fight an unjust war? If you say yes, then you're either not a parent or not human. Let Jenna and Barbara be the first sacrifices.

Throwing around the term "Civil War' is silly...don't let yourself become a pawn of the news media. Instead, go to a respected dictionary and look up the definition of 'Civil War'...if you read and understand the definition properly, you'll instantly recognize that a state of civil war has existed in Iraq for a LONG time....some would argue before we ever got there. The only reason it's being thrown around now, is that it's a convenient term to indicate that the iraq war has degraded or changed in some way shape or form....which allows politicians/media to pan it. I would submit the war was a fucking clusterfuck since the day Dubya said "Mission Accomplished"...hell, long before it actually.

Also, keep in mind, that the fight exists in iraq because it was the most recent theatre of operations. If we had not moved into iraq and instead stayed in Afg. I largely suspect, the syrians, saudis, iranians, etc...that flock into Iraq on a daily basis to join in on the fight, would have simply chosen to do the same in Afghanistan. Where the fight is, really is just a semantic.

[Rockindeano]

I see right through that Frank...The Civil war that had been going on was one sided..Saddam ruled ass didnt he?

We cannot win in Iraq. They have the home sand advantage and frankly, we aren't a good ropad team.

Get out and come home....all of them

[whocares]

BUT... Bush said we won the war a few years ago...

He said it, it has to be true!

[RedWingFan]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.

There is no reason for our people to be dying there now except W's ego.

All that's happening there now is a damned civil war that they'll fight whether we're there or not. The only difference is, our people won't be getting killed if they're not there.

The war we need to be fighting is now and has always been in Afghanistan.

If we keep fucking with Irag we're very soon going to have to fuck with Iran. Where are the people to fight it going to come from? Are we going to start drafting kids to die? Think about it. Are we going to send our children, against their will, to fight an unjust war? If you say yes, then you're either not a parent or not human. Let Jenna and Barbara be the first sacrifices.

Your hatred for Bush only magnifies your ignorance This post is written on pure emotion and not 1 braincell....Thanks

[strangegrey]

I love how you republicans spin that we are taking the war to them, and if we pull out they will bring it to us. The amount of money we are spending over there could be used as prevention here...much more so and much more effective. hell, right now, our ports aren't protected, neither is air or rail or highway for that matter, We are vulnerable here at home. They will devise another plan and will be able to execute it here because of so many holes in our homeland defense. Jesus, you have any idea how much further the money would go here rather than there?

This is the one argument which really makes the right look rediculous.

With the resources poured into this war...and a complete lack of effort into securing borders and ports here....one really has to wonder what the fuck we're still doing over there!?

[RedWingFan]

BUT... Bush said we won the war a few years ago...

He said it, it has to be true!

You mean the Iraqi war? You mean the war that was launched against Hussein and the tough Royal National Guard. Yeah, we won that war! Now we're fighting terrorists (hint: war on terror) over there instead of here. What's not true about it?

[whocares]

BUT... Bush said we won the war a few years ago...

He said it, it has to be true!

You mean the Iraqi war? You mean the war that was launched against Hussein and the tough Royal National Guard. Yeah, we won that war! Now we're fighting terrorists (hint: war on terror) over there instead of here. What's not true about it?

coughbullshitcough

[strangegrey]

I see right through that Frank...The Civil war that had been going on was one sided..Saddam ruled ass didnt he?

We cannot win in Iraq. They have the home sand advantage and frankly, we aren't a good ropad team.

Get out and come home....all of them

I'm in agreement...I just don't think that using the term 'civil war' is anything other than a play on words by the media....it's been a civil war since like forever.....So for someone to say "It's now become a civil war" is rediculous....the place is a cluster fuck....pull out and fix the shit here that needs fixing.

[RedWingFan]

BUT... Bush said we won the war a few years ago...

He said it, it has to be true!

You mean the Iraqi war? You mean the war that was launched against Hussein and the tough Royal National Guard. Yeah, we won that war! Now we're fighting terrorists (hint: war on terror) over there instead of here. What's not true about it?

coughbullshitcough

Thanks for the example of why it's useless trying to argue with a retard

[whocares]

BUT... Bush said we won the war a few years ago...

He said it, it has to be true!

You mean the Iraqi war? You mean the war that was launched against Hussein and the tough Royal National Guard. Yeah, we won that war! Now we're fighting terrorists (hint: war on terror) over there instead of here. What's not true about it?

coughbullshitcough

Thanks for the example of why it's useless trying to argue with a retard

piss of with the retard comment, jackass.

[Tom Jrnyfn]

I think getting rid of Hussein was a good thing, but going into that hornet nest was a big mistake..Bush Sr knew better during the gulf war. He should have advised his son to do the same.

The problem for the world is that these people do not give a shit about states, country or nationalism. Al they care about is their tribes, ethnicy etc..They don't want democracy.

We can thank the Britts for making a mess of this region before, during and after WW1. Winston Churchill may be regarded as one of the greatest military leaders of all time, but he royally fucked up that part of the world.

[Manarocks]

BUT... Bush said we won the war a few years ago...

He said it, it has to be true!

You mean the Iraqi war? You mean the war that was launched against Hussein and the tough Royal National Guard. Yeah, we won that war! Now we're fighting terrorists (hint: war on terror) over there instead of here. What's not true about it?

coughbullshitcough

Thanks for the example of why it's useless trying to argue with a retard

piss of with the retard comment, jackass.

I agree redwingfan.

[Rockindeano]

Am I the only one who just laughs at every fuckin thread here?

I mean, this is a special group of people....arguing, bashing, joking, etc...This rules.


Tom, nice to blame the Brits..extra points for that scud.

[RedWingFan]

BUT... Bush said we won the war a few years ago...

He said it, it has to be true!

You mean the Iraqi war? You mean the war that was launched against Hussein and the tough Royal National Guard. Yeah, we won that war! Now we're fighting terrorists (hint: war on terror) over there instead of here. What's not true about it?

coughbullshitcough

Thanks for the example of why it's useless trying to argue with a retard

piss of with the retard comment, jackass.

This response is way better than the last one. Now that were somewhat acting like 2 adults would you agree the initial reason we invaded was to get rid of Hussein and the R.N.G?