MR

Dean, you say sometimes that you will start this or that blog in order to "effect" change... I was wondering, if you started a blog with the intention of getting Journey into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, would/could it work? Just what does a blog do, anyway? Are they usually controversial, or are they just gossipy/newsy? I don't mean to put you on the spot here, just thinking out loud after coming home from work. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is kind of , hhmmmmmm, well, I can't think of the right word, but Journey still should be in it and be recognized for their glorious body of work. Plus, maybe it would get Stevie to appear one time with them, who knows? Does anyone know if Journey really wants to be in it? I bet so. Thoughts?

(P.S. I've been meaning to ask about the emoticon that wears the sunglasses: what does it mean anyway? I've seen it in messages but never get it...)

fredinator wrote:Dean, you say sometimes that you will start this or that blog in order to "effect" change... I was wondering, if you started a blog with the intention of getting Journey into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, would/could it work? Just what does a blog do, anyway? Are they usually controversial, or are they just gossipy/newsy? I don't mean to put you on the spot here, just thinking out loud after coming home from work. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is kind of , hhmmmmmm, well, I can't think of the right word, but Journey still should be in it and be recognized for their glorious body of work. Plus, maybe it would get Stevie to appear one time with them, who knows? Does anyone know if Journey really wants to be in it? I bet so. Thoughts?

(P.S. I've been meaning to ask about the emoticon that wears the sunglasses: what does it mean anyway? I've seen it in messages but never get it...)

A Dean blog would help but ultimately, what "works" is the RnR HOF powers that be.

I mentioned in strangegrey's thread that I don't think JOURNEY is an icon of rock. This is what's keeping them out. The voice of Steve Perry is iconic. (And here's the thing: his VOICE is iconic - NOT his name. Because SP was in a band his name is somewhat overshadowed. His Street Talk album was an attempt to make a name for himself but the guitar work on it echoed Neal so much that ST sounded like JOURNEY.) The E5C4P3 album cover is iconic. Ultimately, the band JOURNEY is not.

fredinator wrote:
(P.S. I've been meaning to ask about the emoticon that wears the sunglasses: what does it mean anyway? I've seen it in messages but never get it...)

I believe the emoticon signifies 'cool'.
If you hold your mouse pointer over the emoticons before selecting them a little box should pop up telling you what they mean...hopefully!

Good Lord, Fyre, your views on the surface sound very sensible and persuasive, but when given some thought it turns into baloney (to me, anyway). Van Halen's "Hot For Teacher" doesn't seem to me to be iconic, does it to you? I don't get that logic. Actually, I don't get your post at all. Maybe an internet blog would help educate some of the voters. Maybe I am tired and can't puzzle what you said out. Journey is an icon to SOMEBODY--otherwise, they wouldn't have sold as many albums as they have...

Moves by ANY fan to get a band into the HOF will always be utterly pointless.

The HOF is all about $$$, bribes and who is trendy enough at the time so that the HOF committee can use that band to further their own egos.

Will never happen.

Andrew wrote:Moves by ANY fan to get a band into the HOF will always be utterly pointless.

The HOF is all about $$$, bribes and who is trendy enough at the time so that the HOF committee can use that band to further their own egos.

Will never happen.

Yup. Best thing to do is ignore it.

Andrew wrote:Moves by ANY fan to get a band into the HOF will always be utterly pointless.

The HOF is all about $$$, bribes and who is trendy enough at the time so that the HOF committee can use that band to further their own egos.

Will never happen.

Correct.....IF Journey was to ever reunite with Perry, a great move on their part would be to force their label to sink dough into the HOF effort.

Yeah, but what label?

Perry, major labels, HOF....it is all a thing of the past. The industry is being turned on its ear and the money is in touring now. The band have a monster frontman for that job, so expect no moves to get the band into the HOF.

Just my take on this....

Andrew wrote:Yeah, but what label?

Perry, major labels, HOF....it is all a thing of the past. The industry is being turned on its ear and the money is in touring now. The band have a monster frontman for that job, so expect no moves to get the band into the HOF.

Just my take on this....

A healthy Perry would have labels lining up....promoters too.

Andrew wrote:Yeah, but what label?

Perry, major labels, HOF....it is all a thing of the past. The industry is being turned on its ear and the money is in touring now. The band have a monster frontman for that job, so expect no moves to get the band into the HOF.

Just my take on this....

Andrew - what are the realistic options available for Journey when they finish the new album? Are we talking about small melodic rock independents from Europe again?

But, I'm curious, I get the bribes part, but who else wants money? The actual Hall of Fame Museum administrators, record companies? The British always seem to recognize really great music before anyone else does--maybe they would induct Journey into theirs? The British and Europeans evidently are big fans...

fredinator wrote:But, I'm curious, I get the bribes part, but who else wants money? The actual Hall of Fame Museum administrators, record companies? The British always seem to recognize really great music before anyone else does--maybe they would induct Journey into theirs? The British and Europeans evidently are big fans...

Fredinator..I wish it were so. Sure, there's a loyal hardcore here in the UK but bear in mind that Journey have NEVER had a hit single in this country...even during the Escape era. I've lost count of the amount of times someone has said "Who are Journey?" over the years.

Andrew wrote:Moves by ANY fan to get a band into the HOF will always be utterly pointless.

The HOF is all about $$$, bribes and who is trendy enough at the time so that the HOF committee can use that band to further their own egos.

Will never happen.

I agree that it's about $$$. It SHOULD be. I don't agree that it's ALL about $$$.

That's where my point comes in. If JOURNEY were iconic then they would be worth making $$$ off of them. They're NOT.

We can place blame anywhere and on whomever we want but the reality is that JOURNEY is not an iconic band.

fredinator wrote:But, I'm curious, I get the bribes part, but who else wants money? The actual Hall of Fame Museum administrators, record companies? The British always seem to recognize really great music before anyone else does--maybe they would induct Journey into theirs? The British and Europeans


evidently are big fans...

Well now that is something to think about So Andrew or Dean what do you think about that??????????? It just sucks they can and never will get in to the HOF They should have been in there years ago.

Dang, too bad. Not even in their heyday? That makes me feel sad...

fredinator wrote:Good Lord, Fyre, your views on the surface sound very sensible and persuasive, but when given some thought it turns into baloney (to me, anyway). Van Halen's "Hot For Teacher" doesn't seem to me to be iconic, does it to you? I don't get that logic. Actually, I don't get your post at all. Maybe an internet blog would help educate some of the voters. Maybe I am tired and can't puzzle what you said out. Journey is an icon to SOMEBODY--otherwise, they wouldn't have sold as many albums as they have...

LOL! I am full of it aren't I!

Van Halen is iconic because Eddie has been knighted a guitar legend. While I agree that Hot For Teacher is utterly garage band material the fact remains that Eddie AS A GUITARIST is an icon.

JOURNEY is iconic to their fans but that's not enough to raise them to legendary, iconic heights in rock history.

FyreWyngz wrote:

Andrew wrote:Moves by ANY fan to get a band into the HOF will always be utterly pointless.

The HOF is all about $$$, bribes and who is trendy enough at the time so that the HOF committee can use that band to further their own egos.

Will never happen.

I agree that it's about $$$. It SHOULD be. I don't agree that it's ALL about $$$.

That's where my point comes in. If JOURNEY were iconic then they would be worth making $$$ off of them. They're NOT.

We can place blame anywhere and on whomever we want but the reality is that JOURNEY is not an iconic band.

I'd say that Journey aren't 'credible' to bony-armed Rolling Stone types - but there's LOADS of money being made by the Journey back catalogue. In fact, it's one of the highest selling back catalogues there has ever been. So I'd argue that Journey do have financial clout on their side. It's the misguided perception of the work itself that's the problem.

FyreWyngz wrote:

fredinator wrote:Good Lord, Fyre, your views on the surface sound very sensible and persuasive, but when given some thought it turns into baloney (to me, anyway). Van Halen's "Hot For Teacher" doesn't seem to me to be iconic, does it to you? I don't get that logic. Actually, I don't get your post at all. Maybe an internet blog would help educate some of the voters. Maybe I am tired and can't puzzle what you said out. Journey is an icon to SOMEBODY--otherwise, they wouldn't have sold as many albums as they have...

LOL! I am full of it aren't I!

Van Halen is iconic because Eddie has been knighted a guitar legend. While I agree that Hot For Teacher is utterly garage band material the fact remains that Eddie AS A GUITARIST is an icon.

JOURNEY is iconic to their fans but that's not enough to raise them to legendary, iconic heights in rock history.

Except you have said Fyre that Steve Perry IS an icon. So if VH can get in due to Eddie then why can't Journey get in on the iconic status of Perry AS A VOCALIST?

Matthew wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

fredinator wrote:Good Lord, Fyre, your views on the surface sound very sensible and persuasive, but when given some thought it turns into baloney (to me, anyway). Van Halen's "Hot For Teacher" doesn't seem to me to be iconic, does it to you? I don't get that logic. Actually, I don't get your post at all. Maybe an internet blog would help educate some of the voters. Maybe I am tired and can't puzzle what you said out. Journey is an icon to SOMEBODY--otherwise, they wouldn't have sold as many albums as they have...

LOL! I am full of it aren't I!

Van Halen is iconic because Eddie has been knighted a guitar legend. While I agree that Hot For Teacher is utterly garage band material the fact remains that Eddie AS A GUITARIST is an icon.

JOURNEY is iconic to their fans but that's not enough to raise them to legendary, iconic heights in rock history.

Except you have said Fyre that Steve Perry IS an icon. So if VH can get in due to Eddie then why can't Journey get in on the iconic status of Perry AS A VOCALIST?

Perception is everything.

I said that SP's VOICE is iconic. He's not a "name" - his was a voice that was in a band that was bigger than himself and which he never felt a part of. I guess what I'm saying is that when people hear JOURNEY they hear SP's voice. They don't even relate his voice to the name SP. They may very well relate his voice to "that guy with the big nose."

Eddie IS Van Halen. Van Halen really isn't in - Eddie is in with the rest on his coat tails.

JOURNEY can't get in on SP's coat tails because SP is NOT JOURNEY.

Here's my question: what are JOURNEY's merits. Why should they be in? I asked myself this and wrote a letter. I don't know if this is the correct address anymore but here's the cheesy letter that I wrote:

Ms. Suzan I. Evans, ESQ., Executive Director
Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Foundation
1290 Avenue Of The Americas
New York, NY 10104
212-484-1755
fax 212-445-0108

Dear Ms. Evans and The Rock And Roll Hall of Fame:

It’s with a burning passion that I’m writing this appeal to induct into your halls a Rock and Roll band of a lifetime: JOURNEY.

Rock and Roll music is perhaps the eminent vehicle for human expression. It encompasses the entire spectrum of human experience from rebellion, angst and politics to love, peace and happiness. When it comes to love, peace and happiness, JOURNEY has been graciously serving Rock and Roll fans since 1973.

JOURNEY is an expression of virtue – a voice of hope. This was evident in the beginning when they proclaimed on their first album, “We’ve been waiting so very long to play some music and have some fun - bring some happiness to everyone.” The JOURNEY vision was as clear then as it is today.

JOURNEY carries a message of love. Of course, love is the greatest of human experiences and JOURNEY's message is accessible to all regardless of age, sex or color. Love is an endless experience and JOURNEY has captured the bitter and the sweet of it. While traveling up and down the roller coaster of love, JOURNEY’s music has taken fans to higher places and been the harness that’s safely held them during the bitter times.

JOURNEY's message has given generations of Rock and Roll fans a reason to feel alive. Not only is this a contribution to Rock and Roll music by making it a more diverse and rounded art form; it’s a most important service to humanity. Like no other band, JOURNEY fills the need for love, peace and happiness.

I invite you to please consider for induction this Rock and Roll band of a lifetime.

Sincerely,
John W. Lute
JOURNEY fan since 1978

I look forward to hearing your reply from them....the standard base letter I have seen many times before I'll bet.

Shame....Journey SHOULD be in there....along with a bunch of other classic bands.

Matthew wrote:
Andrew - what are the realistic options available for Journey when they finish the new album? Are we talking about small melodic rock independents from Europe again?

The world is their oyster
Anything is possible at this point...and with labels changing by the week, then anything is possible. I don't think they will be on a small label at all, but there is only a few majors left and the deals those guys hand out aren't any better really.

My best guess would be something perhaps like REO have done....self pressing/own label, but with wide or perhaps exclusive distribution deals for individual territories and full digital distribution.

The old school way of doing things is going going gone....major labels don't mean much anymore...
Just get the record out thereand hit the streets and all press possible.

I definitely believe there will be a VERY strong interest from media in this band and their new release - TV, Radio and relevant other press.
Just get the record out there (themselves I think is best) and then get ready to tour tour tour

And before anyone asks - a hit single or chart topping album? Not likely, but not necessary either...not by a long shot.

Just a few random thoughts....

FyreWyngz wrote:

Matthew wrote:

FyreWyngz wrote:

fredinator wrote:Good Lord, Fyre, your views on the surface sound very sensible and persuasive, but when given some thought it turns into baloney (to me, anyway). Van Halen's "Hot For Teacher" doesn't seem to me to be iconic, does it to you? I don't get that logic. Actually, I don't get your post at all. Maybe an internet blog would help educate some of the voters. Maybe I am tired and can't puzzle what you said out. Journey is an icon to SOMEBODY--otherwise, they wouldn't have sold as many albums as they have...

LOL! I am full of it aren't I!

Van Halen is iconic because Eddie has been knighted a guitar legend. While I agree that Hot For Teacher is utterly garage band material the fact remains that Eddie AS A GUITARIST is an icon.

JOURNEY is iconic to their fans but that's not enough to raise them to legendary, iconic heights in rock history.

Except you have said Fyre that Steve Perry IS an icon. So if VH can get in due to Eddie then why can't Journey get in on the iconic status of Perry AS A VOCALIST?

Perception is everything.

I said that SP's VOICE is iconic. He's not a "name" - his was a voice that was in a band that was bigger than himself and which he never felt a part of. I guess what I'm saying is that when people hear JOURNEY they hear SP's voice. They don't even relate his voice to the name SP. They may very well relate his voice to "that guy with the big nose."

Eddie IS Van Halen. Van Halen really isn't in - Eddie is in with the rest on his coat tails.

JOURNEY can't get in on SP's coat tails because SP is NOT JOURNEY.

Here's my question: what are JOURNEY's merits. Why should they be in? I asked myself this and wrote a letter. I don't know if this is the correct address anymore but here's the cheesy letter that I wrote:

Ms. Suzan I. Evans, ESQ., Executive Director
Rock And Roll Hall Of Fame Foundation
1290 Avenue Of The Americas
New York, NY 10104
212-484-1755
fax 212-445-0108

Dear Ms. Evans and The Rock And Roll Hall of Fame:

It’s with a burning passion that I’m writing this appeal to induct into your halls a Rock and Roll band of a lifetime: JOURNEY.

Rock and Roll music is perhaps the eminent vehicle for human expression. It encompasses the entire spectrum of human experience from rebellion, angst and politics to love, peace and happiness. When it comes to love, peace and happiness, JOURNEY has been graciously serving Rock and Roll fans since 1973.

JOURNEY is an expression of virtue – a voice of hope. This was evident in the beginning when they proclaimed on their first album, “We’ve been waiting so very long to play some music and have some fun - bring some happiness to everyone.” The JOURNEY vision was as clear then as it is today.

JOURNEY carries a message of love. Of course, love is the greatest of human experiences and JOURNEY's message is accessible to all regardless of age, sex or color. Love is an endless experience and JOURNEY has captured the bitter and the sweet of it. While traveling up and down the roller coaster of love, JOURNEY’s music has taken fans to higher places and been the harness that’s safely held them during the bitter times.

JOURNEY's message has given generations of Rock and Roll fans a reason to feel alive. Not only is this a contribution to Rock and Roll music by making it a more diverse and rounded art form; it’s a most important service to humanity. Like no other band, JOURNEY fills the need for love, peace and happiness.

I invite you to please consider for induction this Rock and Roll band of a lifetime.

Sincerely,
John W. Lute
JOURNEY fan since 1978

Pure bullshit, FYRE. What a rambling clusterfuck of nonsense. Any chance they might have had is probably now gone. If they were trying to get into the "We have gay fans" HOF, this letter WOULD have been relevant. You continue to turn everything into some deep, life altering experience that it's not. Journey belongs in the HOF because they had master musicians, one of the all-time great frontmen, chemistry second to none and the world's greatest fans (except for you). Shit, the Perry-Schon chemistry ALONE should merit HOF induction.

FyreWyngz wrote:Eddie IS Van Halen. Van Halen really isn't in - Eddie is in with the rest on his coat tails.

JOURNEY can't get in on SP's coat tails because SP is NOT JOURNEY.

Fyre - I don't understand your reasoning here.

Surely DLR was a big reason for Van Halen's success too? In much the same way as Neil Schon was for Journey.

Yes, Eddie van Halen and Steve Perry were the 'stars of the show' in many ways - the outstanding geniuses in their field during this era - and the individuals who most defined each of their bands.

But why are you saying that Eddie IS Van Halen whereas Perry ISN"T Journey? It seemns to me you can either argue that Eddie/Perry ARE these bands or you give credit to both bands as a unit?

What's the distinction you're making here?

And THAT is it right there Andrew..."along with a bunch of other classic bands."

I happen to know a member of the board of the RARHOF, and I asked him why Journey has never even been considered. His answer was that there are people who lobby for Journey, but many more that lobby for bands like Boston and Foreigner (Micks famous friendships in the rock community helps here). His argument was that bands like Boston were more foundational for the genre than Journey, and that people are already outraged that Boston gets overlooked.

I don't think there's a chance really. But, the Journey catalog is mighty $$, and the boys won't suffer too much even after they're gone. Ultimately, that is far more important than getting this status.

LIGHTS BAND wrote:His argument was that bands like Boston were more foundational for the genre than Journey

Which is a good point...they were. Much as I prefer Journey...Boston deserve to be inducted first, I reckon.

Andrew wrote:

Matthew wrote:
Andrew - what are the realistic options available for Journey when they finish the new album? Are we talking about small melodic rock independents from Europe again?

The world is their oyster
Anything is possible at this point...and with labels changing by the week, then anything is possible. I don't think they will be on a small label at all, but there is only a few majors left and the deals those guys hand out aren't any better really.

My best guess would be something perhaps like REO have done....self pressing/own label, but with wide or perhaps exclusive distribution deals for individual territories and full digital distribution.

The old school way of doing things is going going gone....major labels don't mean much anymore...
Just get the record out thereand hit the streets and all press possible.

I definitely believe there will be a VERY strong interest from media in this band and their new release - TV, Radio and relevant other press.
Just get the record out there (themselves I think is best) and then get ready to tour tour tour

And before anyone asks - a hit single or chart topping album? Not likely, but not necessary either...not by a long shot.

Just a few random thoughts....

Cheers Andrew. Yes, the REO route seems like a good one. Out of interest...what's the story with Jonathan Cain's record company? Seems like they did an amazing job for him.

Also - do you think the fact that JC made it to Number One on the AC chart will help Journey's cause in any way? I had this debate on another forum and most people seemed to think Cain's recent hit single was irrelevant - but I'm not so sure.

Andrew wrote:Moves by ANY fan to get a band into the HOF will always be utterly pointless.

The HOF is all about $$$, bribes and who is trendy enough at the time so that the HOF committee can use that band to further their own egos.

Will never happen.

Agreed, The Dick Clark Five had more votes than the latest RapCrap induction this past year...I can't even remember who the damn thug was that got inducted...but he had less votes than the DC5.

Didn't matter in the end, because the Douchebag's-That-Be at the Hall saw the need to include a rap act.


I guess they forgot that its the Rock and Roll Hall Of Fame!!!

FyreWyngz wrote:
A Dean blog would help but ultimately, what "works" is the RnR HOF powers that be.

I mentioned in strangegrey's thread that I don't think JOURNEY is an icon of rock. This is what's keeping them out. The voice of Steve Perry is iconic.

This is such an overrated notion. We all love perry, but the facts are that most people know Journey. Not schon, not perry, not Cain. Most people when they hear Oh Sherrie think it is Journey.

Parade DLR out in front of an audience of 10k and the majority will say, "there's Dave."
Do the same with perry and the majority will go "who's that?"
Some loon will be screeching and convulsing and scaring near bystanders and only THEN would word spread, "Oh, that's the guy from Journey, the singer. They did Oh Sherry and Open Arms."

Red13JoePa wrote:Parade DLR out in front of an audience of 10k and the majority will say, "there's Dave."
Do the same with perry and the majority will go "who's that?"
Some loon will be screeching and convulsing and scaring near bystanders and only THEN would word spread, "Oh, that's the guy from Journey, the singer."

Suzane Evans is no longer with the RnRHoF. Jann Wenner ousted her in May and she was replaced with Joel Peresman.

Many many letters have been written over the past few years by fans and by the J2TH Committee -

Terry Stewart, President of the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Museum (and signer of one of our petitions) has this to say about the induction process:

Nomination and induction into the Hall of Fame is not about popularity, records sales, which label the group is on, or anything other than the process below. The love for, the evaluation of, and the impact of any artist are subjective questions to be answered by the nominators and the voters. Unlike baseball, football, basketball or hockey, statistics are not relevant. Please read below:

The entire nomination and induction process is coordinated by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Foundation in New York City. Individuals can be inducted in four categories: Performer, Early Influence, Non-Performer and Side-Men. The only formal criteria for the performance category is that an artist has to have had their first record 25 years ago. That said, candidates are reviewed and discussed relative to their impact on this music that we broadly call rock and roll. The innovation and influence of these artists is also critical. Gold records, number one hits, and million sellers are really not appropriate standards for evaluation.

The formal selection of Performers begins with an extensive panel of journalists, historians, previous inductees, noted musicians, industry heads, etc. In turn, those nominated are sent to a committee of more than 800 people around the world (journalists, historians, music industry management, all previous inductees, musicians, etc.) who vote. Those receiving the highest number of votes and more than 50% of the votes cast are inducted into the Hall. Usually, this means five to seven new performing members each year. So you can see the road to being inducted is an arduous one and for the most part, removed from the realm of influences or politics.

The criteria is the same. The process did change a little during the restructuring this year - fewer (and new voting members)

Cat