MR

....professional! I betcha he is looking at all of this and thinking, "what the crap are these guys on?" It's obvious this band has been all over the page after HH was booted from management. Herbie has been the only guy to keep this band grounded and successful. I never really appreciated good band mangement until I have read today's mess with Journey and have thought back to "tapegate." Some have said that Journey is nothing without Perry. However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

I completely agree with you. I was reading some of the Castles Burning interview again today and some of Herbie’s statements seem less like the bitter untruths that a lot of people disregard them as.

Herbie to Jon Cain:

“Hey we had an agreement, and you had committed to me. And you're touching upon the single biggest problem I have with all people who pick up an instrument and decide that they're entertainers and performers and players. It's at the expense of any sense of commitment. And you were committed on other terms and conditions, and you want to change the deal right now. And that is jive.”

“And so, I gotta tell you, in no uncertain terms, I knew what Jon Cain was like day one. Day fucking one.”

I still take the interview with a grain of salt but as the years roll on the more and more I can fully believe a lot of the things said.

And you know, the longer that time passes, the more pieces of the puzzle that appears.

Cain fired Perry ten years ago! And it's only dawning on us now that he's ruthless and misguided?

Matthew wrote:Cain fired Perry ten years ago! And it's only dawning on us now that he's ruthless and misguided?

I think Cain is only a piece of the puzzle. We already knew he was ruthless and misguided. But the question is, is Friga behind all of this, or is this Neal's band?

I just sent Andrew a message saying something very similar. When I wrote the Castles Burning interview, I was (and still am) adamant that the band be able to continue on without Steve Perry. But, hindsight has a way of putting this all in perspective. Now, I think there is nothing these guys won't do to stay viable, be it fake the vocals at concerts or unceremoniously drop members without consideration at all for the fans. This one is going to bite them on their asses. At this point, the only thing that would make me buy a ticket now is a Perry reunion. And, since that's never going to happen, I feel very strongly that they should just call it quits.

I even started a petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/journe ... l-it-quits

livin2do wrote:I just sent Andrew a message saying something very similar. When I wrote the Castles Burning interview, I was (and still am) adamant that the band be able to continue on without Steve Perry. But, hindsight has a way of putting this all in perspective. Now, I think there is nothing these guys won't do to stay viable, be it fake the vocals at concerts or unceremoniously drop members without consideration at all for the fans. This one is going to bite them on their asses. At this point, the only thing that would make me buy a ticket now is a Perry reunion. And, since that's never going to happen, I feel very strongly that they should just call it quits.

I even started a petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/journe ... l-it-quits

Mathew Carty wrote that. Are you saying you are him?

Uh, yeah. That's me.

livin2do wrote:Uh, yeah. That's me.

I had no idea. That was a very controversial interview. Good work on that bro. People quote that interview daily here.

I used to be here all the time way back when. I lurk here still, but it is only when something major comes up that I post anymore. As the song goes... "I've got livin' to do." I'm not real bent out of shape about the latest fiasco in Journey-land. When they gave their whole "If it was going on, we didn't know about it" excuse about the tapegate scandal, and then axed Steve Augeri, I basically felt that the end was coming for the band. No matter how good the band could have possibly been with Jeff Scott Soto, they have to know where their bread is buttered. If they could get Steve Perry back, count me in. Short of that, Journey will be a thing of the past for me.

livin2do wrote:I used to be here all the time way back when. I lurk here still, but it is only when something major comes up that I post anymore. As the song goes... "I've got livin' to do." I'm not real bent out of shape about the latest fiasco in Journey-land. When they gave their whole "If it was going on, we didn't know about it" excuse about the tapegate scandal, and then axed Steve Augeri, I basically felt that the end was coming for the band. No matter how good the band could have possibly been with Jeff Scott Soto, they have to know where their bread is buttered. If they could get Steve Perry back, count me in. Short of that, Journey will be a thing of the past for me.

I understand that. A lot of people feel that way. The matter of the fact now is that the remaining members are just riding the cash cow out to its very limits. They've got bills to pay just like you and I. Evidently SP saved his pennies wisely and as HH said, signed some very personally beneficial contracts that has given him the luxury of not having to grind it out like the remaining members do. Good one Steve. I am sympathetic to the remaining members in that they are just doing what they have to to survive.

I always thought you had more in you than fronting what's obviously become a tribute band.

True, you could've infused new blood into them but it seems that was never their real goal.

You're gonna be better off. You've gained respect from a lot of new fans who'll support your future work.

I always wondered why "Cain" was chosen as his stage name:

"In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. But Abel brought the milk from the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast. Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it." Now Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field." And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him." - Genesis 4:3-8

The story continues with God approaching Cain asking about Abel's whereabouts. In a response that has become a well-known saying, Cain answers, "Am I my brother's keeper?"

Finally, seeing through Cain's deception, as "the voice of Abel's blood is screaming to God from the ground", God curses Cain to wander the earth. Cain is overwhelmed by this and appeals in fear of being killed by other men, and so God places a mark on Cain so that he would not be killed, stating that "whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be upon him sevenfold". Cain then departs, "to the land wandering".

cracked_stone wrote:....professional! I betcha he is looking at all of this and thinking, "what the crap are these guys on?" It's obvious this band has been all over the page after HH was booted from management. Herbie has been the only guy to keep this band grounded and successful. I never really appreciated good band mangement until I have read today's mess with Journey and have thought back to "tapegate." Some have said that Journey is nothing without Perry. However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

I feel the same way.

I gave these guys the benefit of the doubt last year about tapegate and letting SA go. JSS fell in their laps and saved their asses. He is exactly what Journey needed. Why are Jon and Neal afraid to go into a different direction, the same old Perry sound alike didn't work before, try something different, stick with someone that can rock the house!

I get the feeling that there isn't going to be a new record, another year or two of touring to put cash in their pocket. They only have 2 choices: 1) Bring Perry back (I don't want to see this). I would rather remember him for his legacy and leave it at that 2) Hang it up now before you entirely ruin any chances for the HOF

Wheels Of Fyre wrote:I always wondered why "Cain" was chosen as his stage name:

"In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. But Abel brought the milk from the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast. Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it." Now Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field." And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him." - Genesis 4:3-8

The story continues with God approaching Cain asking about Abel's whereabouts. In a response that has become a well-known saying, Cain answers, "Am I my brother's keeper?"

Finally, seeing through Cain's deception, as "the voice of Abel's blood is screaming to God from the ground", God curses Cain to wander the earth. Cain is overwhelmed by this and appeals in fear of being killed by other men, and so God places a mark on Cain so that he would not be killed, stating that "whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be upon him sevenfold". Cain then departs, "to the land wandering".

john !! thats great ,, BUT i always thought friga got his
name from kung fu's CAIN..adventures of a Shaolin monk,

Rick wrote:

livin2do wrote:Uh, yeah. That's me.

I had no idea. That was a very controversial interview. Good work on that bro. People quote that interview daily here.

RICK !! good call out.. hey Mathew Carty! ,, great interview man ,, your the dude that put that NO COPY rule on your site! im always wanting to quote from you ,, but too lazy to write it out..

Lawrence wrote:

Wheels Of Fyre wrote:I always wondered why "Cain" was chosen as his stage name:

"In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the Lord. But Abel brought the milk from the firstborn of his flock. The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast. Then the Lord said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it." Now Cain said to his brother Abel, "Let's go out to the field." And while they were in the field, Cain attacked his brother Abel and killed him." - Genesis 4:3-8

The story continues with God approaching Cain asking about Abel's whereabouts. In a response that has become a well-known saying, Cain answers, "Am I my brother's keeper?"

Finally, seeing through Cain's deception, as "the voice of Abel's blood is screaming to God from the ground", God curses Cain to wander the earth. Cain is overwhelmed by this and appeals in fear of being killed by other men, and so God places a mark on Cain so that he would not be killed, stating that "whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be upon him sevenfold". Cain then departs, "to the land wandering".

john !! thats great ,, BUT i always thought friga got his
name from kung fu's CAIN..adventures of a Shaolin monk,

Maybe Jeff and JC ought to duke it out Kung-Fu style...?

livin2do wrote:I just sent Andrew a message saying something very similar. When I wrote the Castles Burning interview, I was (and still am) adamant that the band be able to continue on without Steve Perry. But, hindsight has a way of putting this all in perspective. Now, I think there is nothing these guys won't do to stay viable, be it fake the vocals at concerts or unceremoniously drop members without consideration at all for the fans. This one is going to bite them on their asses. At this point, the only thing that would make me buy a ticket now is a Perry reunion. And, since that's never going to happen, I feel very strongly that they should just call it quits.

I even started a petition: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/journe ... l-it-quits

I think it's time to do a follow-up with Herbie at this point. THAT would be an even BETTER read than CB was. (Awesome job on that btw, dude.)

cracked_stone wrote:....professional! I betcha he is looking at all of this and thinking, "what the crap are these guys on?" It's obvious this band has been all over the page after HH was booted from management. Herbie has been the only guy to keep this band grounded and successful. I never really appreciated good band mangement until I have read today's mess with Journey and have thought back to "tapegate." Some have said that Journey is nothing without Perry. However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

Great Management with Great Product = Win (with hard work)
Great Management without Great product = Sooner (versus later) consumer awareness of Deficient Product
Great Product without Great Management = Like winking at a girl in the dark. You know what you are doing, but nobody else does.

Bottom line....it takes both. A great product and great management.

Chad

cracked_stone wrote:However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

That's a joke, right?

Lora wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

That's a joke, right?

I sure hope so ........

Lora wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

That's a joke, right?

Not at all. Who got Steve Perry in the band? Who got Jon Cain in the band? Sure, Gregg Rollie was good, but the combination of Perry, Schon, and Cain is what made Journey the success they are today....but without HH, Journey WOULD NOT have been as successful. Sure, Journey had a couple of radio hits on ROR...but ROR was soooooooooo much weaker of an album than Frontiers and definitely Escape. The truth of the matter is, Journey wouldn't have been as close to success as what they were without Herbie Herbert. Without HH, no Steve Perry and Journey remains a progressive rock fusion band.

Just think, if Herbie was still in control of the band in the second half of the 80's, Journey probably would've put out at least two more strong Escape - Frontiers type of albums. When Perry was handed the keys, the band eventually fell apart. Now, the same thing is happening with Cain and Schon holding the keys. Perry, Cain, and Schon are all great musicians.....the best this industry has ever seen, but talents with egos like they have needed a manager like HH to keep them grounded, together, writing music, and performing.

cracked_stone wrote:

Lora wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

That's a joke, right?

Not at all. Who got Steve Perry in the band? Who got Jon Cain in the band? Sure, Gregg Rollie was good, but the combination of Perry, Schon, and Cain is what made Journey the success they are today....but without HH, Journey WOULD NOT have been as successful. Sure, Journey had a couple of radio hits on ROR...but ROR was soooooooooo much weaker of an album than Frontiers and definitely Escape. The truth of the matter is, Journey wouldn't have been as close to success as what they were without Herbie Herbert. Without HH, no Steve Perry and Journey remains a progressive rock fusion band.

Just think, if Herbie was still in control of the band in the second half of the 80's, Journey probably would've put out at least two more strong Escape - Frontiers type of albums. When Perry was handed the keys, the band eventually fell apart. Now, the same thing is happening with Cain and Schon holding the keys. Perry, Cain, and Schon are all great musicians.....the best this industry has ever seen, but talents with egos like they have needed a manager like HH to keep them grounded, together, writing music, and performing.

Are you aware of All the other Wonderful things he did for and TO the band ????

Cate wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:

Lora wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

That's a joke, right?

Not at all. Who got Steve Perry in the band? Who got Jon Cain in the band? Sure, Gregg Rollie was good, but the combination of Perry, Schon, and Cain is what made Journey the success they are today....but without HH, Journey WOULD NOT have been as successful. Sure, Journey had a couple of radio hits on ROR...but ROR was soooooooooo much weaker of an album than Frontiers and definitely Escape. The truth of the matter is, Journey wouldn't have been as close to success as what they were without Herbie Herbert. Without HH, no Steve Perry and Journey remains a progressive rock fusion band.

Just think, if Herbie was still in control of the band in the second half of the 80's, Journey probably would've put out at least two more strong Escape - Frontiers type of albums. When Perry was handed the keys, the band eventually fell apart. Now, the same thing is happening with Cain and Schon holding the keys. Perry, Cain, and Schon are all great musicians.....the best this industry has ever seen, but talents with egos like they have needed a manager like HH to keep them grounded, together, writing music, and performing.

Are you aware of All the other Wonderful things he did for and TO the band ????

If "he" you are referring to is Steve Perry, I'm not denying that. I would assume everybody here is smart enough to understand that. However, where would Steve Perry have been if HH had not lobbied to have him brought into Journey?

cracked_stone wrote:

Cate wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:

Lora wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

That's a joke, right?

Not at all. Who got Steve Perry in the band? Who got Jon Cain in the band? Sure, Gregg Rollie was good, but the combination of Perry, Schon, and Cain is what made Journey the success they are today....but without HH, Journey WOULD NOT have been as successful. Sure, Journey had a couple of radio hits on ROR...but ROR was soooooooooo much weaker of an album than Frontiers and definitely Escape. The truth of the matter is, Journey wouldn't have been as close to success as what they were without Herbie Herbert. Without HH, no Steve Perry and Journey remains a progressive rock fusion band.

Just think, if Herbie was still in control of the band in the second half of the 80's, Journey probably would've put out at least two more strong Escape - Frontiers type of albums. When Perry was handed the keys, the band eventually fell apart. Now, the same thing is happening with Cain and Schon holding the keys. Perry, Cain, and Schon are all great musicians.....the best this industry has ever seen, but talents with egos like they have needed a manager like HH to keep them grounded, together, writing music, and performing.

Are you aware of All the other Wonderful things he did for and TO the band ????

If "he" you are referring to is Steve Perry, I'm not denying that. I would assume everybody here is smart enough to understand that. However, where would Steve Perry have been if HH had not lobbied to have him brought into Journey?

No , I am refering to HH .

Cate wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:

Cate wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:

Lora wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

That's a joke, right?

Not at all. Who got Steve Perry in the band? Who got Jon Cain in the band? Sure, Gregg Rollie was good, but the combination of Perry, Schon, and Cain is what made Journey the success they are today....but without HH, Journey WOULD NOT have been as successful. Sure, Journey had a couple of radio hits on ROR...but ROR was soooooooooo much weaker of an album than Frontiers and definitely Escape. The truth of the matter is, Journey wouldn't have been as close to success as what they were without Herbie Herbert. Without HH, no Steve Perry and Journey remains a progressive rock fusion band.

Just think, if Herbie was still in control of the band in the second half of the 80's, Journey probably would've put out at least two more strong Escape - Frontiers type of albums. When Perry was handed the keys, the band eventually fell apart. Now, the same thing is happening with Cain and Schon holding the keys. Perry, Cain, and Schon are all great musicians.....the best this industry has ever seen, but talents with egos like they have needed a manager like HH to keep them grounded, together, writing music, and performing.

Are you aware of All the other Wonderful things he did for and TO the band ????

If "he" you are referring to is Steve Perry, I'm not denying that. I would assume everybody here is smart enough to understand that. However, where would Steve Perry have been if HH had not lobbied to have him brought into Journey?

No , I am refering to HH .

Explain yourself.

Explain myself ????
I don't have the time or the energy to go into the details of The HH that you are worshipping.
I already have a few months back and the tour schedule for the band was also posted.

cracked_stone wrote:

Lora wrote:

cracked_stone wrote:However, if we go back and take a look at Journey's road in the last 21 years, I'd have to say that Herbie is soley responsible for Journey's legacy.

That's a joke, right?

Not at all. Who got Steve Perry in the band? Who got Jon Cain in the band? Sure, Gregg Rollie was good, but the combination of Perry, Schon, and Cain is what made Journey the success they are today....but without HH, Journey WOULD NOT have been as successful. Sure, Journey had a couple of radio hits on ROR...but ROR was soooooooooo much weaker of an album than Frontiers and definitely Escape. The truth of the matter is, Journey wouldn't have been as close to success as what they were without Herbie Herbert. Without HH, no Steve Perry and Journey remains a progressive rock fusion band.

Just think, if Herbie was still in control of the band in the second half of the 80's, Journey probably would've put out at least two more strong Escape - Frontiers type of albums. When Perry was handed the keys, the band eventually fell apart. Now, the same thing is happening with Cain and Schon holding the keys. Perry, Cain, and Schon are all great musicians.....the best this industry has ever seen, but talents with egos like they have needed a manager like HH to keep them grounded, together, writing music, and performing.

Yep. HH was a great business manager who contributed to the success of Journey. But implying he was the only reason for their success is a bit over the top.

Cate wrote:Explain myself ????
I don't have the time or the energy to go into the details of The HH that you are worshipping.
I already have a few months back and the tour schedule for the band was also posted.

I don't worship any man or woman on this earth. Neither are worthy of my worship, I don't care who they are. All I'm saying is, if you're going to tear into my opinions, then by all means give me a reason why I'm wrong to think the way I do. It would at least give me a little more insight and a different point of view to ponder, besides saying I'm wrong, your right and not giving any reasons why.