MR

Not sure if anyone has seen this, but Cain's comment seems to reinforce much of what has been said on the board so far. Soto just doesn't sound Journey enough.

"We wish Jeff the best of luck," Cain said. "We just wanted to move in a different direction sonically. We're interested in our legacy right now. We want to sound like our records and we want to sound like the 65 million units that are out there."

http://www.showbuzz.cbsnews.com/stories ... 6192.shtml


For what it's worth, I saw Journey with Soto in Birmingham (UK) earlier this year and thought he was a breath of fresh air, and you could really sense the buzz after the gig (which was generally believed to have the lamest crowd over here). I can't tell you how many people I overheard saying variations on "what a singer", "what a frontman", etc. It's their band and their decision, but as someone who stills looks forward to new material from bands like Journey I think it's very disappointing.

Apologies for the lack of rage, bile and venom. I'll go back to my usual lurker status...

I think this decision was made after some heavy debating in which Cain wanted to protect the legacy and Schon want to rock out.

Hmmm.... the story is becoming clearer....

Holla, hello stranger, nice to see ya cetera.

Moon Beam wrote:Holla, hello stranger, nice to see ya cetera.

Hey Moon Beam,

Sorry for being a lurker.... I'm back now, though disgusted with what's going down....

sponge wrote:Not sure if anyone has seen this, but Cain's comment seems to reinforce much of what has been said on the board so far. Soto just doesn't sound Journey enough.

"We wish Jeff the best of luck," Cain said. "We just wanted to move in a different direction sonically. We're interested in our legacy right now. We want to sound like our records and we want to sound like the 65 million units that are out there."

If the goal is to return to the legacy sound then you have to at the very least appreciate that. I don't know that JOURNEY has had a clear vision since ROR!

It's too bad they don't think JSS can help them capture that sound. I hope they find someone who can.

JON CAIN wrote:
"We just wanted to move in a different direction sonically. We're interested in our legacy right now. We want to sound like our records and we want to sound like the 65 million units that are out there."

Um. What? Wanted to move in a different direction "sonically"? (who talks like that?)

ISN'T THAT WHAT THEY WERE GOING TO DO WITH JEFF?

"We want to sound like our records" and "sound like the 65 million units that are out there"... wtf does THAT mean?
If THAT'S the sound you want, call Perry and offer him a b.j. or whatever you need to do to get him back. First it's wanting to go in a different direction and in the same statement, wanting to sound like the records that are out there.

Boy he just loooves to hear himself talk, huh?

NealIsGod wrote:Cain said that the band will be taking some time off and will begin their search for a new singer at the end of the year.

...and this is what SHOULD have happened after Augeri exited. They should have taken themselves off the tour, gave the illusion they were waiting to see what happened to Augeri's voice, and took their time in deciding what to do. Instead, they rushed into things and this is the result of it.

bluejeangirl76 wrote:"We want to sound like our records" and "sound like the 65 million units that are out there"... wtf does THAT mean?
If THAT'S the sound you want, call Perry and offer him a b.j. or whatever you need to do to get him back.

Perry could never handle the touring schedule, plus Jeremey sounds more like classic Perry than today's Perry does.

When he says move in a different direction, I think he means a diferent direction from Jeff (back to the "legacy" sound), as opposed to a different direction with Jeff. The problem I have with this is that the legacy sound was 25 years ago. I 'd rather hear what Journey has to offer today, not listen to them try to recreate the past. But again, it's their band, and no-one is forcing me to buy their material.

Monker wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:Cain said that the band will be taking some time off and will begin their search for a new singer at the end of the year.

...and this is what SHOULD have happened after Augeri exited. They should have taken themselves off the tour, gave the illusion they were waiting to see what happened to Augeri's voice, and took their time in deciding what to do. Instead, they rushed into things and this is the result of it.

Or they should have let JSS fill in and save their asses millions, which he did exceptionally, and then taken as long as they needed to figure out which direction they wanted to go in. I hate seeing JSS treated the way he was. But I do think Journey is much more damaged by this than JSS is.

sponge wrote:When he says move in a different direction, I think he means a diferent direction from Jeff (back to the "legacy" sound), as opposed to a different direction with Jeff. The problem I have with this is that the legacy sound was 25 years ago. I 'd rather hear what Journey has to offer today, not listen to them try to recreate the past. But again, it's their band, and no-one is forcing me to buy their material.

Yeah, it sounds like they want a singer who sounds like Perry now. JSS gave them everything and they threw it away.

NealIsGod wrote:

Monker wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:Cain said that the band will be taking some time off and will begin their search for a new singer at the end of the year.

...and this is what SHOULD have happened after Augeri exited. They should have taken themselves off the tour, gave the illusion they were waiting to see what happened to Augeri's voice, and took their time in deciding what to do. Instead, they rushed into things and this is the result of it.

Or they should have let JSS fill in and save their asses millions, which he did exceptionally, and then taken as long as they needed to figure out which direction they wanted to go in. I hate seeing JSS treated the way he was. But I do think Journey is much more damaged by this than JSS is.

Exactly NIG. Bring JSS in to save the tour, give him a memorable experience while opening him up to thousands more potential fans, and then take time as a four-piece to organise their future. BUT they should NOT have announced him as the PERMANENT singer unless they were in it for the long run. That's so unfair to Jeff. How can one band make so many bad decisions?!?

cetera wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

Monker wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:Cain said that the band will be taking some time off and will begin their search for a new singer at the end of the year.

...and this is what SHOULD have happened after Augeri exited. They should have taken themselves off the tour, gave the illusion they were waiting to see what happened to Augeri's voice, and took their time in deciding what to do. Instead, they rushed into things and this is the result of it.

Or they should have let JSS fill in and save their asses millions, which he did exceptionally, and then taken as long as they needed to figure out which direction they wanted to go in. I hate seeing JSS treated the way he was. But I do think Journey is much more damaged by this than JSS is.

Exactly NIG. Bring JSS in to save the tour, give him a memorable experience while opening him up to thousands more potential fans, and then take time as a four-piece to organise their future. BUT they should NOT have announced him as the PERMANENT singer unless they were in it for the long run. That's so unfair to Jeff. How can one band make so many bad decisions?!?

Yeah. I wonder what changed since December?

Monker wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:Cain said that the band will be taking some time off and will begin their search for a new singer at the end of the year.

...and this is what SHOULD have happened after Augeri exited. They should have taken themselves off the tour, gave the illusion they were waiting to see what happened to Augeri's voice, and took their time in deciding what to do. Instead, they rushed into things and this is the result of it.

If this is what they were gonna do...you are 100% correct

"We just wanted to move in a different direction sonically. We're interested in our legacy right now. We want to sound like our records and we want to sound like the 65 million units that are out there."

Translation: Stay in the same direction we've been in....milk the catalog because we're too lazy to create something new...we want to find a Perry clone because we're ready to admit we're nothing without him--or someone as close to him as we can find.

If JSS wasn't Perry enough for them they had six months on tour with him to make that decision, sounds like bs to me.

Painfully ironic! Look at the 3/4 premier Soul Sirkus tunes, in addition to the handful of Soto tunes - it's EXACTLY the direction they should have been going. Schon/Soto were able to replicate the _essence_ of the Perry sound/era, while still kicking ass musically.

"Essence" = real magic in the obvious chemistry and the way they challenged each other. I can remember listening to Soul Sirkus the first few times and thinking, 'wow, Neal is really busting _his ass _to keep up with Jeff'

Now that's all gone.

If it's really Cain calling at least 50% of the shots, look forward to 'new' music with LAME ballads, phoned-in guitar, and a singer who sounds like Perry from early 80s. But that singer will have less input/influence than Augeri. The last legitmate Journey album, ever, then would have to be Generations, believe it or not. What a sad curtain call.

I won't even go into how this was handled. If Soto literally had to "find this out", just as we the fans did... then as stated elsewhere Herby Herbert was prescient.

I have a "I'd rather be at Journey Concert" license plate too (20 years now). It's coming down today.

infinityplusone wrote:Painfully ironic! Look at the 3/4 premier Soul Sirkus tunes, in addition to the handful of Soto tunes - it's EXACTLY the direction they should have been going. Schon/Soto were able to replicate the _essence_ of the Perry sound/era, while still kicking ass musically.

Absolutely correct. And what else did they show? That Cain was unnecessary as a writer or musician in attaining that sound...other than possibly being the guy who pushed the record button.
Perhaps the new tunes JSS and NS had worked on made this clear to JC.

NealIsGod wrote:
Yeah. I wonder what changed since December?

Neal's impending divorce, maybe??? Perhaps he had to scrap the idea of taking a chance in the studio with Jeff in lieu of getting his ass back on the road because he has to pay his soon-to-be ex-wife. How pathetic.

"Phoned in guitar solos" - Yes, I realize that was a critique on ROR back in the day as well. But Neal was still forced to write to mesh with Perry's giganctic voice/vision/ego (which I say as a compliment)

Now, you're gonna get a Perry sound-alike who will not, and is probably commanded to not, challenge them in any way.

And that's probably 100% accurate on Cain. Christ, what has Cain done since 1983? I will never disparage his talent, but he more than any other Journey member 'lost it' over the years. So yeah, maybe that's the rub. Soto/Schon could still be fresh and vital while Cain had nothing to do. But Cain is 50% of Journey.

Solution- Neal, quit Journey. Reform Soul Sirkus!!! No, better yet - Keep Journey - get Soto back - FIRE CAIN!!!!!

infinityplusone wrote:Solution- Neal, quit Journey. Reform Soul Sirkus!!! No, better yet - Keep Journey - get Soto back - FIRE CAIN!!!!!

Now, THERE's an idea. Fire Friga...... JSS can play Cain's piano parts (they ain't exactly difficult) and they can share the same money between less people!

And THAT ($$$$$$) has gotta be all the reason Fro would need!

NoMoreTails wrote:"We just wanted to move in a different direction sonically. We're interested in our legacy right now. We want to sound like our records and we want to sound like the 65 million units that are out there."

Translation: Stay in the same direction we've been in....milk the catalog because we're too lazy to create something new...we want to find a Perry clone because we're ready to admit we're nothing without him--or someone as close to him as we can find.

.

It's funny - many people here have consistently justified this "same direction" for years and have often mocked the fans who have criticized Journey for pursuing that direction. Now - literally overnight- it's this big problem and drama.

Leaving aside the issue of the lack of class in the way they dealt with JSS...isn't Jonathan Cain simply saying the band are returning to the mentality of the Augeri era? A mentality that has been fearlessly and stoutly defended on this board in the years leading up to Tapegate?

Yeah, but at this point I'd rather inverst my money in premium car audio (subwoofer, new amp to start with) and blast Houston 1981 or, better yet, CAPTURED.

Soto offered a few more years of vitality, forcing better written more ballsy songs. Instead you're going back to a well that doesn't exist anymore. AGE WITH SOME DIGNITY for fuck sakes!

Matthew wrote:It's funny - many people here have consistently justified this "same direction" for years and have often mocked the fans who have criticized Journey for pursuing that direction. Now - literally overnight- it's this big problem and drama.

Leaving aside the issue of the lack of class in the way they dealt with JSS...isn't Jonathan Cain simply saying the band are returning to the mentality of the Augeri era? A mentality that has been fearlessly and stoutly defended on this board in the years leading up to Tapegate?

Matt, pick that argument with someone else, I've been bitching about Journey not taking their music in a new direction (with a few exceptions) since 2001 and publicly ever since I've been on this site. Yeah, I was an Augeri fan, liked what they recorded for the most part, but was still frustrated that they weren't more experimental, progressive, and harder rocking. And yes, they could have taken the music somewhere new while still sounding like Journey and even with a singer as similar to Perry as was Augeri. You only surfaced around tapegate time but I've made these statements in more recent threads you were involved in, I think even to you directly.

THIS is Journey's legacy...

Matthew wrote:

NoMoreTails wrote:"We just wanted to move in a different direction sonically. We're interested in our legacy right now. We want to sound like our records and we want to sound like the 65 million units that are out there."

Translation: Stay in the same direction we've been in....milk the catalog because we're too lazy to create something new...we want to find a Perry clone because we're ready to admit we're nothing without him--or someone as close to him as we can find.

.

Leaving aside the issue of the lack of class in the way they dealt with JSS...isn't Jonathan Cain simply saying the band are returning to the mentality of the Augeri era?

Why return to the Augeri era. It was getting them nowhere as far as progress goes and without progress they are just a nostalgia act, just what Neal always said he didn't want to be. Who's going to write with Neal. Neal said that he and JSS had chemistry like him and Perry. I think Neal got cold feet thinking about how this new sound might crash and burn leaving them in a lurch and not enough dollars coming in to support his needs. So now it's fuck it, lets go back to where we used to be playing the dirty dozen. It was GREAT hearing JSS sing all those other great songs from their back catalog this year. I don't know if we'll ever see that again.

Ed

infinityplusone wrote:Yeah, but at this point I'd rather invest my money in premium car audio (subwoofer, new amp to start with) and blast Houston 1981 or, better yet, CAPTURED.

now THIS is an idea!! throw Humanimal , talis 7 , and StreetTalk ('84), and No More Tears in there as well..

already got Talisman, but will check out the others you mention

ROCK LIVES ON

donnaplease wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:
Yeah. I wonder what changed since December?

Neal's impending divorce, maybe??? Perhaps he had to scrap the idea of taking a chance in the studio with Jeff in lieu of getting his ass back on the road because he has to pay his soon-to-be ex-wife. How pathetic.

Ever wonder if Neal and, especially, Friga-Fuck, were growing
increasingly uncomfortable with Jeff's growing fanbase in places like this
and his habit of actually communicating with his friends and fans???

I honestly wonder if some of Jeff's friendships here and the
way things have transpired within the entire fanbase
betwen here and BT played any part into their sudden
distaste with Jeff, the man, not the performer...