MR

Brian May is so articulate and thoughtful that anything derivative of what he said on his page would suffer by comparison.

I'll just offer the following quick observations:

- Neal and Jon sound pretty publicly cocky for 2 people who MUST have foreseen that they were about to and did just set off the firestorm they have,

- it strains credibility (although life is often incredible) that they and Azoff don't have an Ace secured that will provide substantially greater reward than what they had with Jeff,

- songs like "Winds of Freedom" weren't going to cut it -- I won't go into detail as to why, so if that was indicative of their collective creative output with Jeff, I can understand why it looked too risky to continue with him,

- CD "album" sales aren't likely to drive Journey's business in the future, given that they're tanking industry-wide,

- for Journey to be "relevant" again -- as people use that term in the vernacular -- the truth is that you need some multi-media exposure...someone or something that gets you onto "E," People Magazine, VH1 (not just VH1 Classic), and talk-shows -- essentially someone "pretty enough" for people to like to watch,

- if they want to make money with new music, they need to write the kinds of songs that iTunes users want to download as SINGLES, and Jeff has never written a "singles" hit (not even by the mid-chart standards that Herbie articulated in the infamous Castles Burning interview),

- they need a singer with a vocal range that meets or exceeds Steve Perry's in the early 80s and who has or can develop the proper phrasing for the Dirty Dozen, and finally,

- my guess is that the main issue with Jeff was that Neal and Jon didn't find the fit they want in a writing partner...in fact, my guess is that's such a high priority that the vocal character of both Steve A. and Jeff were simply a rationalization for dissatisfaction with their creative output, which is harder to specifically put your finger on and you can sometimes only tell whether "it" is "IT!" once you hear it.

Given that the Powers That Know on this board are convinced Jeremey is going to get the gig:

- he does have the vocal range and the proper phrasing for the job

- he could be a better songwriter for Journey from the demos I've heard, but I'd point out that even what I've heard him put out lacks the efficiency necessary to create a "Journey song," as I imagine Jon and Neal envision it,

- he lacks the proper "look" for promotion of the band: wattles, double chins, and beer guts aren't going to work for the lead singer of this band...some of the issue is fitness related, but I suspect not all and that he'd require "work" to get there even if the guys who trained the cast of "300" got a hold of him,

- as Brian May intimated, he lacks his own musical "world," which is simply a way of saying that his contribution would be to perpetuate what has come in the past and won't be able to INFLUENCE this band to move forward, which is clearly what everyone on this forum seems to want.

So where does that leave things? As best I can imagine right now, to cause all this chaos rationally (I know we can't assume that), Journey should have another, more promising Option 4 on the table -- someone who is his own man, who can influence this band and get it out of a rut, someone with something "NEW to offer, a new foil, someone who has a musical world of his own, and is worth arguing with."

One of the most successfully conceived comebacks for an 80s band was when they mined 90s rock for talent to overcome the loss of a lead singer. Everyone knows that Velvet Revolver is essentially G'nR with a new singer, but that doesn't mean they sound the same. They are musically "relevant" but distinct from G'nR, but that's because Slash and the other guys took a BIG chance when they brought Scott Weiland in. Dave Kushner's new too. Both guys have influenced the evolution of the new band. Result? Number One debut album.

I think Option 4 is better than bringing in someone to cover the old songs, however brilliantly, and writing in a Steve Perry mold.

So who could do it? Chris Cornell.

Think about it... Just out of the Audioslave breakup, lives in California, has something new to offer, would be a great 90s foil to old Journey's 80s music, definitely has his own musical world, is into some of the psychedelia Neal's playing is infused with, plays guitar in his own right, and would push Journey in directions that even Jeff could not.

Listen to "Arms Around Your Love" before you dismiss all of this as crazy-talk: http://www.myspace.com/chriscornell .

Does nobody else hear a little Steve Perry sneaking in there (without the complete aping of the legendary singer)? The man has the proper vocal range (doubt it? listen to some of the Soundgarden albums, where he exceeds Steve Perry's range). Think about it...

The other vocalist in that vein would be Myles Kennedy, but he's got a band right now, so they say...

The only other obvious thing I could imagine making any business sense in having Journey start up this shit-storm would be Option "0": they are virtually certain that they can bring back Coca-Cola Classic and the fact that the "chances of that are nearly zero" only means that any such announcement would ignite a CRAZY amount of publicity and drive ticket sales through the roof.

Now, wouldn't THAT be brill?!

I had the same notion... why the hell would they dump a singer that for all appearances they were thrilled with, 'he is the real deal" "new energy" "chemistry" etc.

Right on top of a boatload of publicity (Sopranos) unless they were just going to retire or get the original back??

Steve perry aint comin' back and they just threw away their entire fan base... unbelievable!

I like Jeremeys voice better. Chris's voice is from a whole different type of rock music. He wouldn't fit in my opinion, and probably wouldn't touch Journey with a 10 foot pole.

Slamming Jeremey like that won't make you any friends at MR, he's very highly regarded here. I'm sure you are a specimen of physical perfection yourself.

I can smell a fall TV edition of Rockstar Journey. That gets them the all kinds of new multi media exposure. Maybe they've promised Jeremey a chance to compete. The timing is certainly right - an entire summer to get the show together in time for the new fall TV season. Pure speculation but it would satisfy the need for multi media exposure and some viability in today's pop culture.

Gibby wrote:I can smell a fall TV edition of Rockstar Journey. That gets them the all kinds of new multi media exposure. Maybe they've promised Jeremey a chance to compete. The timing is certainly right - an entire summer to get the show together in time for the new fall TV season. Pure speculation but it would satisfy the need for multi media exposure and some viability in today's pop culture.

I've wondered this a few times, but wasn't it cancelled? maybe Randy Jackson is going to have his own version?

I think you're right about the cancellation. The Randy Jackson thought is actually interesting. His own 'rockstar-esque' spinoff.

Rick wrote:I like Jeremeys voice better. Chris's voice is from a whole different type of rock music. He wouldn't fit in my opinion, and probably wouldn't touch Journey with a 10 foot pole.

Slamming Jeremey like that won't make you any friends at MR, he's very highly regarded here. I'm sure you are a specimen of physical perfection yourself.

Good Lord, is every comment about Jeremey that someone doesn't agree with going to be considered a slam or a put down.

I thought that was a great post and well thought out. They were just making a observation..sadly, it too is about image. I believe that's all they were trying to say. No one has even gone after Jeremey in such a way that woudl be standard for this board.

Great, so now any comments made about Jeremey will be attacked.

piecesofeight wrote:Good Lord, is every comment about Jeremey that someone doesn't agree with going to be considered a slam or a put down.

I thought that was a great post and well thought out. They were just making a observation..sadly, it too is about image. I believe that's all they were trying to say. No one has even gone after Jeremey in such a way that woudl be standard for this board.

Great, so now any comments made about Jeremey will be attacked.

wattles, double chins, and beer guts aren't going to work for the lead singer of this band.

This is being just plain nasty. I didn't attack anyone, I defended someone else being attacked.

Rick wrote:This is being just plain nasty. I didn't attack anyone, I defended someone else being attacked.

You're entitled to interpret one of the several factors I discussed referencing Jeremey -- pro and con -- I discussed as an "attack," and comment however you like.

Separately, I thought your assessment of the Chris Cornell idea was interesting, although I'd point out that the fact that he sings a "different" kind of rock music is part of the point if you're hoping for the creative frisson that Brian May was talking about. If you want Journey to be "relevant," and not simply a nostalgia act, as some on this board seem to, it's not going to happen unless Journey plays with kids closer to their own size and level of sophistication in the industry and who have something different to bring from another musical world. I stand by my assessment.

Regarding your objection to my comment on Jeremey's looks: physical attractiveness and sex appeal are part of any entertainment industry promotion package. This is so obvious that it should hardly need to be said. I think it's particularly important when you're introducing someone new that they be attractive because that will help quell a certain amount of criticism from people who don't want something new. If you don't have that in a youth-driven TV/YouTube/People Magazine age, you're going into battle without an important weapon no matter how talented you are. Simple as that.

We ain't selling soap here! As if there were a need to say this, but music is an overwhelmingly a promotion/PR/media driven industry. If I'm asking people to pay me their hard-earned money for me to entertain them, you can bet my looks and sex/youth-appeal will be a big part of how much access I will have to media, which drives the dollars. Pretending otherwise might as well be wishing that the sky were pink.

Treating any artist with kid-gloves about this fact is simply setting them up to get killed out there, and it sounds like this board is carnage-weary, so I gave my quick assessment as to where Jeremey stands on this score (as well as on other factors) and I stand by that, while remaining open to be convinced otherwise.

wattles, double chins, and beer guts aren't going to work for the lead singer of this band.

That's really a downright nasty & uncalled for comment.

It's also not factual. Jeremey was once heavier but appears to have lost a great deal of weight over the past year. Have u seen anything recent?

StringsOfJoy wrote:

Rick wrote:This is being just plain nasty. I didn't attack anyone, I defended someone else being attacked.

You're entitled to interpret one of the several factors I discussed referencing Jeremey -- pro and con -- I discussed as an "attack," and comment however you like.

Separately, I thought your assessment of the Chris Cornell idea was interesting, although I'd point out that the fact that he sings a "different" kind of rock music is part of the point if you're hoping for the creative frisson that Brian May was talking about. If you want Journey to be "relevant," and not simply a nostalgia act, as some on this board seem to, it's not going to happen unless Journey plays with kids closer to their own size and level of sophistication in the industry and who have something different to bring from another musical world. I stand by my assessment.

Regarding your objection to my comment on Jeremey's looks: physical attractiveness and sex appeal are part of any entertainment industry promotion package. This is so obvious that it should hardly need to be said. I think it's particularly important when you're introducing someone new that they be attractive because that will help quell a certain amount of criticism from people who don't want something new. If you don't have that in a youth-driven TV/YouTube/People Magazine age, you're going into battle without an important weapon no matter how talented you are. Simple as that.

We ain't selling soap here! As if there were a need to say this, but music is an overwhelmingly a promotion/PR/media driven industry. If I'm asking people to pay me their hard-earned money for me to entertain them, you can bet my looks and sex/youth-appeal will be a big part of how much access I will have to media, which drives the dollars. Pretending otherwise might as well be wishing that the sky were pink.

Treating any artist with kid-gloves about this fact is simply setting them up to get killed out there, and it sounds like this board is carnage-weary, so I gave my quick assessment as to where Jeremey stands on this score (as well as on other factors) and I stand by that, while remaining open to be convinced otherwise.

I understand where you are coming from, and by all accounts you are probably right. I, however, want Journey to be Journey. I don't want them to be a band that used to sound like 'this', and now sound like 'that'. They became successful because of a trademark sound. Bringing Jeremey in gives them back that sound. I was happy with the way Jeff sounded, and might also be happy with the sound Chris would provide, not sure. I do know that I will enjoy the sound of Journey with Jeremey, if I decide to give them that chance. I'm pretty upset with they way they have treated JSS. I think at least a public apology for the way they've underhandedly dismissed him while he was over seas and a severance package. I mean for Gods sake, he saved the tour last year. Saved them from losing millions. I'm definitely pissed. You go through life listening and supporting a band that you think are the greatest guys in music, and as it turns out, they've been pulling the wool over my eyes all this time. They are a couple of nasty pricks. That kind of disappointment takes a while to get over.

My comments regarding yours about Jeremey in the looks department have nothing to do with music. They have to do with Jeremey being a friend of the folks at this board, and it's personal. Just wanted to let you know that when you use disparaging remarks about him here, you will hear about it. He's got over 1100 posts here, so he's very well known, and very well liked.

Without Perry in the deep thinking department, Jon and Neal are constantly pressed when having to make decisions. Decisions have consequences. They think next year this will go away.

I can't understand why this post hasn't gotten more attention. Very intriguing points and ideas. If reconciliation with JSS is off the table then what you've posted has lots of value.

StringsOfJoy wrote:- my guess is that the main issue with Jeff was that Neal and Jon didn't find the fit they want in a writing partner...in fact, my guess is that's such a high priority that the vocal character of both Steve A. and Jeff were simply a rationalization for dissatisfaction with their creative output, which is harder to specifically put your finger on and you can sometimes only tell whether "it" is "IT!" once you hear it.

Neal and Jeff's musical kinship already more than proved itself in the SoulSirkus debacle.
No matter what went down, SoulSirkus remains a more cohesive album than either Arrival or Generations.
Initially, Neal was happier than a pig in shit over what Jeff would bring to Joureny.
Especially, in terms of songwriting.
I think it was directly because JSS would play such a substantially greater role in the songwriting process, that Cain got irked.

A possible clue to Cain's domination of the songwriting process might be found in Steve Augeri's last interview.
Where he stated that before recording 'Generations', "it wasn't until the last moment of doing this record that [Jon] came in - literally into the studio with a few masterpieces." and "He thought to himself that he needed to be represented – let's face it – Jon Cain needed to be on this record first and foremost before the newcomer Steve.
So he came up with some great songs that took front seat...."

The_Noble_Cause wrote:
Neal and Jeff's musical kinship already more than proved itself in the SoulSirkus debacle.
No matter what went down, SoulSirkus remains a more cohesive album than either Arrival or Generations.
Initially, Neal was happier than a pig in shit over what Jeff would bring to Joureny.
Especially, in terms of songwriting.
I think it was directly because JSS would play such a substantially greater role in the songwriting process, that Cain got irked.

A possible clue to Cain's domination of the songwriting process might be found in Steve Augeri's last interview.
Where he stated that before recording 'Generations', "it wasn't until the last moment of doing this record that [Jon] came in - literally into the studio with a few masterpieces." and "He thought to himself that he needed to be represented – let's face it – Jon Cain needed to be on this record first and foremost before the newcomer Steve.
So he came up with some great songs that took front seat...."

Noble, I think you're on to something here. My gut tells me that Cain is the one that orchestrated this whole Corleone-style massacre. Everybody always talks about Steve Perry's ego, but no one has been watching the development of Cain's.

Don't get me wrong... the guy is a talented keyboard player/composer... a good songwriter... but he's only good within a good team. Kind of like LeBron is good, but his team isn't. He needs to work within the confines of a good team (like the SPURS) if he wants to win. Cain's talent shines when he's working with strong musicians who have something to bring to the table. I think that Soto could have been a good foil for both Cain and Schon. God knows Soto would have brought some great stuff to the table. Based on what we know now, it wouldn't have been easy for those three to chisel out a new masterpiece. But the material would have been good, as long as JSS didn't go in the direction of TALISMAN or SOULSIRKUS.

I mean, if you listen to his solo album PRISM, I think it's a very JOURNEY-esque album. A lot more than LOST IN TRANSLATION. I could very well visualize a great JOURNEY album using the melodic rock approach PRISM as a sort of blueprint.

Anyway, ever since I heard that story about how Cain tried to get a record deal for his wife (or girlfriend) at the time from Herbie... BEFORE HE WAS IN THE BAND and BEFORE HE WAS ANYBODY... well it colored my opinion of him. If he had the cojones to do that... then if he felt that Soto was a threat to his ego... I can see him wanting him out.

Fernando Ramirez wrote: He (cain) needs to work within the confines of a good team (like the SPURS) if he wants to win.

dude, first of all , where have you been ,, second, good job getting the Spurs into this conversation!!

larryfromnextdoor wrote:dude, first of all , where have you been ,, second, good job getting the Spurs into this conversation!!

I've been lurking. The board exploded with so many people that had nothing interesting to say, and so many damn trolls, that I kind of lost interest in reading it. I mean, 80% of the topics here are bullshit. I was down to reading the JOURNEY board maybe once every two weeks or so, and skipping most of it. Honestly, I saw nothing that I really wanted to comment on.

Now, since this JSS stuff has happened... I'm reading more often to see what's going to happen.

GO SPURS GO!

Fernando Ramirez wrote: Kind of like LeBron is good, but his team isn't. He needs to work within the confines of a good team (like the SPURS) if he wants to win. Cain's talent shines when he's working with strong musicians who have something to bring to the table. I think that Soto could have been a good foil for both Cain and Schon. God knows Soto would have brought some great stuff to the table.

If that's perceptive to even the average fan, you would hope Cain and Co. would be faintly aware of it.
Like Perry before him, this band is in dire need of a creative wunderkind like Jeff.
If Cain wants to monopolize Journey's songwriting duties, he best step up his game.

piecesofeight wrote:

Rick wrote:
Slamming Jeremey like that won't make you any friends at MR, he's very highly regarded here.

Good Lord, is every comment about Jeremey that someone doesn't agree with going to be considered a slam or a put down.

Talking about double chins, beer guts and waddles is supposed to be some kind of neutral statement or compliment?
1) it IS a putdown, but brain surgeon that you are you KNOW that.
2) it's not accurate. J's lost and is still losing weight and the hair is short.
3) to the other guy's point, the Chris Cornell thing....intriguing, great singer, but a lot like a less versatile version of JSS... which would beg the question "Why?"

Chris Cornell is indeed an interesting thought. I've always considered him to have one of the best ever voices in rock-n-roll. 'Arms Around Your Love' does have a distant Journey-esque vibe to it. This could work. I'd like it and the public might too. I just wonder if people would question the diff between CC and JSS? They're both talented strong voiced guys. I'm sure some would say that the only diff is that CC is more well-known. Still, I think it would be cool, in a Velvet Revolver/GNR way...in fact, in an Augeri way. They could still cover the catalogue and do some experimental stuff.

But I go back to John West. When was it that Royal Hunt announced that split? John West did do something with NS back in '98, no? I wonder if his leaving Royal Hunt was more than coincidental to when Schon & Cain made their decision about JSS?


later~

Arkansas wrote:Chris Cornell is indeed an interesting thought. I've always considered him to have one of the best ever voices in rock-n-roll. 'Arms Around Your Love' does have a distant Journey-esque vibe to it. This could work. I'd like it and the public might too. I just wonder if people would question the diff between CC and JSS? They're both talented strong voiced guys. I'm sure some would say that the only diff is that CC is more well-known. Still, I think it would be cool, in a Velvet Revolver/GNR way...in fact, in an Augeri way. They could still cover the catalogue and do some experimental stuff.

But I go back to John West. When was it that Royal Hunt announced that split? John West did do something with NS back in '98, no? I wonder if his leaving Royal Hunt was more than coincidental to when Schon & Cain made their decision about JSS?


later~

Chris Cornell, John West, Kevin Chalfant, Hugo, Jeremey and Jeff Scott Soto for that matter should look way past Journey. Why would any of these guys want to rip out their voices singing an aging catalog for a band with no future. NS and JC aren't interested in creating any new music, they want to retire touring like Jimmy Buffett, and playing the dirty dozen. Their creative juices are about as juicy as beef jerkey. They're dried up.

These guys need to work with a band that is going places, writing music, getting airplay. If they sing for Journey, they'll never make a name for themselves. They will be as irrelevant as Journey is.