MR

I remember a number of you were meeting up for the Virginia gig and there were some posts about it at the time - but that was then, when all was still right with the world, or so we thought.

In Dean's latest blog instalment it talks about Kevin Chalfont being approached to sing at the Viriginia show but turned it down as it was too short notice. Meaning that Jeff was already gone back then, he just didn't know it yet.

My question: with the benefit of hindsight, what was the mood like among the guys on stage? Were there any clues? Did any of you meet them personally to talk and again, any hint of what was to come?

As I just said on the blog, I was 10 feet away from them in March and it's hard to believe they were anything less than jubilant about playing together. So I'm very interested in a reply to my question - because if you say they seemed really happy together, laughing and joking and so on, that makes it even worse in my book. Like smiling assassins.

joybringer1 wrote:My question: with the benefit of hindsight, what was the mood like among the guys on stage? Were there any clues? Did any of you meet them personally to talk and again, any hint of what was to come?

They looked like there wasn't anything else they rather be doing. The energy was there along with the interaction with each other. If there was trouble looming at that time, slapping me in the head with a 2 x 4 wouldn't have made me believe it.

There was no hint of anything from the outside. They were hanging together all day at the event, as well as in the bar at the hotel the night before (JSS with his wife and Neal) and after the event at the hotel bar having drinks, playing darts, like the best of friends (JSS, Jon Cain, Neal, etc.)

It was a great show.

Obviously, Soto didn't know anything was THAT wrong and the rest of them were hiding what was planned for him.

Lady Luck wrote:They looked like there wasn't anything else they rather be doing. The energy was there along with the interaction with each other. If there was trouble looming at that time, slapping me in the head with a 2 x 4 wouldn't have made me believe it.

I guess you could've smacked me that 2 x 4 too, I didnt notice a thing.

Much like Judas and Benedict Arnold, Friga and Schon made it appear that everything was fine. I guess when you're a spineless fuck for the better part of 11 years you become pretty good at it.

They knew. Bitch and Squirt knew all along.

To be honest, I did notice a decreased amount of interaction between the band members - ALL of them. I attributed it to the fact that they really didn't want to be there, some of the plans for the event were changed, which affected them, and the fact that it was a 'polo' crowd. But I DID notice it.

It pisses me off to no end that Frig & Fro would treat Jeff this way. I realize it's a 'business', but it's also about friendship, loyalty, and honesty from Neal. He's a fucking coward and deserves to fail. I hope his rock hard face falls off!!!

RockinDeano wrote:They knew. Bitch and Squirt knew all along.

Hey Deano,
On your blog you mention that Neal told JSS in the Washington Airport after the gig that it was his last show... just to clarify, that was a rumour, correct? Otherwise, this wouldn't have been a surprise to him (obviously)...

summergirl wrote:

RockinDeano wrote:They knew. Bitch and Squirt knew all along.

Hey Deano,
On your blog you mention that Neal told JSS in the Washington Airport after the gig that it was his last show... just to clarify, that was a rumour, correct? Otherwise, this wouldn't have been a surprise to him (obviously)...

I did NOT say that. I typed something. Re read it carefully.

I need to go to work, but you and I need to talk. PM me.

So JSS knew he was out at the Airport BEFORE the gig....?

cetera wrote:So JSS knew he was out at the Airport BEFORE the gig....?

No, this was just a rumour that was spreading around... read Deano's blog...

summergirl wrote:

cetera wrote:So JSS knew he was out at the Airport BEFORE the gig....?

No, this was just a rumour that was spreading around... read Deano's blog...

I have read it and it's not clear.

I hope his 'book' gets proof-read. After all, his vocabulary doesn't seem to go much beyond 'beer', 'choads' and 'gay'

cetera wrote:

summergirl wrote:

cetera wrote:So JSS knew he was out at the Airport BEFORE the gig....?

No, this was just a rumour that was spreading around... read Deano's blog...

I have read it and it's not clear.

I hope his 'book' gets proof-read. After all, his vocabulary doesn't seem to go much beyond 'beer', 'choads' and 'gay'

It says that at the airport Neal told another person that Jeff has played his last show with the band.

It doesnt say Neal told Jeff
Nor does it say that this other person told Jeff.
Hope that clarifies.

I'll proof read the book if you like Deano.

"You probably don't even hear it when it happens, right?"

joybringer1 wrote:I remember a number of you were meeting up for the Virginia gig and there were some posts about it at the time - but that was then, when all was still right with the world, or so we thought.

In Dean's latest blog instalment it talks about Kevin Chalfont being approached to sing at the Viriginia show but turned it down as it was too short notice. Meaning that Jeff was already gone back then, he just didn't know it yet.

My question: with the benefit of hindsight, what was the mood like among the guys on stage? Were there any clues? Did any of you meet them personally to talk and again, any hint of what was to come?

As I just said on the blog, I was 10 feet away from them in March and it's hard to believe they were anything less than jubilant about playing together. So I'm very interested in a reply to my question - because if you say they seemed really happy together, laughing and joking and so on, that makes it even worse in my book. Like smiling assassins.

Keep your friends close, your enemies closer!

I'm even more appalled now than I was before. I've reached the grand old age of 51 and have never encountered treachery on that scale until now. The bit about Neal telling someone at the airport that that was Jeff's last gig with Jeff himself blissfully unaware, is just an extra piece of shit on top of an already steaming dung heap.

I've never hated anyone I've never met before. That has now changed.

AR wrote:"You probably don't even hear it when it happens, right?"

Okay, I just got this Ed...I thought the pic. wasn't coming through...good one.

joybringer1 wrote:I remember a number of you were meeting up for the Virginia gig and there were some posts about it at the time - but that was then, when all was still right with the world, or so we thought.

In Dean's latest blog instalment it talks about Kevin Chalfont being approached to sing at the Viriginia show but turned it down as it was too short notice. Meaning that Jeff was already gone back then, he just didn't know it yet.

My question: with the benefit of hindsight, what was the mood like among the guys on stage? Were there any clues? Did any of you meet them personally to talk and again, any hint of what was to come?

As I just said on the blog, I was 10 feet away from them in March and it's hard to believe they were anything less than jubilant about playing together. So I'm very interested in a reply to my question - because if you say they seemed really happy together, laughing and joking and so on, that makes it even worse in my book. Like smiling assassins.

I was there....it was a really tight show, good energy from Jeff, but agree with some of the other posts. There wasn't alot of interaction btwn the boys like I saw in Bristow in July. I actually got backstage for the Leesburg show. Neal seemed disinterested and was kind of a prick frankly; Ross wasn't too friendly; Jon was nowhere to be found. Dean was engaging and Jeff was quite friendly. To your question - I really couldn't tell that there were issues by their actions on or off stage.

As a matter of fact, most of my friends at the show who had never seen or heard of Jeff, said that he was awesome and had a ton of energy and thought he was more fun than Perry. Even my wife (who could care less about Journey) thought he was talented and a great entertainer. What's amazing is most folks there loved him out front and dug his voice. So what gives with their decision? It's just mindboggling and also quite obvious they could care less about what the fans think or want and Jeff's firing is them yet again thumbing their noses at their fan base. My thought is if you want to let them know how you feel, don't go to future shows, buy CDs or download tunes. Hit 'em where they care the most....

Saint John wrote:Much like Judas and Benedict Arnold, Friga and Schon made it appear that everything was fine. I guess when you're a spineless fuck for the better part of 11 years you become pretty good at it.

Don't mean to bring Styx into the mix, but all I can think about as I read this discussion is Dennis' last show with Styx. It was televised-CMNT, and everyone knew that Dennis was booted out, but Dennis having the heart he does and what cause it was for, said he would still do the show.
As I pull the show out and watch it now and then, it's till amazing to watch this knowing what was going on, and then oh God, the interview the lady did at the end, she did not have a clue what was going on.
They all handled it in a unreal way.

piecesofeight wrote:

Saint John wrote:Much like Judas and Benedict Arnold, Friga and Schon made it appear that everything was fine. I guess when you're a spineless fuck for the better part of 11 years you become pretty good at it.

Don't mean to bring Styx into the mix, but all I can think about as I read this discussion is Dennis' last show with Styx. It was televised-CMNT, and everyone knew that Dennis was booted out, but Dennis having the heart he does and what cause it was for, said he would still do the show.
As I pull the show out and watch it now and then, it's till amazing to watch this knowing what was going on, and then oh God, the interview the lady did at the end, she did not have a clue what was going on.
They all handled it in a unreal way.

But Styx is probably the most professional group of musicians in the business. It's all well put together. Styx doesn't do a bad show....then or now....I've been to both.

Journey on the other hand lacks what Styx has and I've seen band members pissed off at each other. I've seen bad shows. I've seen everything f*cked up. Jeff is enough of a professional, and considering he had absolutely no idea it most likely didn't show and considering most folks watch the lead singer.....

RockinDeano wrote:They knew. Bitch and Squirt knew all along.

Onthefritztoo wrote:

piecesofeight wrote:

Saint John wrote:Much like Judas and Benedict Arnold, Friga and Schon made it appear that everything was fine. I guess when you're a spineless fuck for the better part of 11 years you become pretty good at it.

Don't mean to bring Styx into the mix, but all I can think about as I read this discussion is Dennis' last show with Styx. It was televised-CMNT, and everyone knew that Dennis was booted out, but Dennis having the heart he does and what cause it was for, said he would still do the show.
As I pull the show out and watch it now and then, it's till amazing to watch this knowing what was going on, and then oh God, the interview the lady did at the end, she did not have a clue what was going on.
They all handled it in a unreal way.

But Styx is probably the most professional group of musicians in the business. It's all well put together. Styx doesn't do a bad show....then or now....I've been to both.

Journey on the other hand lacks what Styx has and I've seen band members pissed off at each other. I've seen bad shows. I've seen everything f*cked up. Jeff is enough of a professional, and considering he had absolutely no idea it most likely didn't show and considering most folks watch the lead singer.....

Dennis was a major league, Frankie Sullivan-type asshole who alienated his bandmates for a decade before they finally called his ass out. He had it coming. He's astronomically talented and his ego is even more enormous.

RockinDeano wrote:They knew. Bitch and Squirt knew all along.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've just picked up on this cryptic comment. Does "all along" mean right from the moment they hired Jeff to bail them out? Are you saying they never had any intentions of this being a permanent gig? That they only announced Jeff as permanent replacement as a cynical ploy to keep him sweet on the European tour - all the time knowing they were going to drop him afterwards? Only playing with him when talking about writing together and a new album?

Please, say it ain't so. Please say that in the beginning they DID mean all that stuff. Leave me with SOME faith in the human nature of Journey.

joybringer1 wrote:

RockinDeano wrote:They knew. Bitch and Squirt knew all along.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've just picked up on this cryptic comment. Does "all along" mean right from the moment they hired Jeff to bail them out? Are you saying they never had any intentions of this being a permanent gig? That they only announced Jeff as permanent replacement as a cynical ploy to keep him sweet on the European tour - all the time knowing they were going to drop him afterwards? Only playing with him when talking about writing together and a new album?

Please, say it ain't so. Please say that in the beginning they DID mean all that stuff. Leave me with SOME faith in the human nature of Journey.

We'll probably never know.
I think a lot of people suspect that JC wasn't as enamoured with Jeff as other Band members were from the start.
And if that is the case, maybe it took him awhile to 'persuade' the others to come around to his way of thinking?
Just a thought.

SusieP wrote:

joybringer1 wrote:

RockinDeano wrote:They knew. Bitch and Squirt knew all along.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've just picked up on this cryptic comment. Does "all along" mean right from the moment they hired Jeff to bail them out? Are you saying they never had any intentions of this being a permanent gig? That they only announced Jeff as permanent replacement as a cynical ploy to keep him sweet on the European tour - all the time knowing they were going to drop him afterwards? Only playing with him when talking about writing together and a new album?

Please, say it ain't so. Please say that in the beginning they DID mean all that stuff. Leave me with SOME faith in the human nature of Journey.

We'll probably never know.
I think a lot of people suspect that JC wasn't as enamoured with Jeff as other Band members were from the start.
And if that is the case, maybe it took him awhile to 'persuade' the others to come around to his way of thinking?
Just a thought.

I thought it was evident in Andrew's interview with Fridga that he wasn't too keen on JSS. I'll go back and re-read it but I didnt come away with the feeling that Fagga was convinced that JSS was right from the start.

Fro and Fagga....

SusieP wrote:

joybringer1 wrote:

RockinDeano wrote:They knew. Bitch and Squirt knew all along.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've just picked up on this cryptic comment. Does "all along" mean right from the moment they hired Jeff to bail them out? Are you saying they never had any intentions of this being a permanent gig? That they only announced Jeff as permanent replacement as a cynical ploy to keep him sweet on the European tour - all the time knowing they were going to drop him afterwards? Only playing with him when talking about writing together and a new album?

Please, say it ain't so. Please say that in the beginning they DID mean all that stuff. Leave me with SOME faith in the human nature of Journey.

We'll probably never know.
I think a lot of people suspect that JC wasn't as enamoured with Jeff as other Band members were from the start.
And if that is the case, maybe it took him awhile to 'persuade' the others to come around to his way of thinking?
Just a thought.

Oh I think this is it exactly. They'd already committed to dates in Europe, so they had to show some sort of unity. They couldn't continue to tour with just a temp hired gun. They had the MR interviews to publish and fans to patronize.

And all the while in Europe, they were tinkering with things like falsetto and head voice. Even tuned down occasionally, one whole show I think. Long story short is that Cain was probably never comfortable with any of it. (And I bet they all were on edge with Deen's voice too. Could he continue to sing night after night on those soaring ballads? I'm sure they were in fear of his voice breaking down if they kept pushing him. They need him for solid backing, not lead.) They know their paychecks come from the Perry-era sound, so they decided to find someone that can closely cover that without much effort. Then it becomes like a Broadway play. They write the script and stick to it night after night without having to worry about something being off a bit.

I'm sure they think they can always record 'new' music at some other time...or pick up their side projects again.

So they cracked the stone, and now they want to glue it back together again. We'll see what happens...


later~

"I actually got backstage for the Leesburg show. Neal seemed disinterested and was kind of a prick frankly; Ross wasn't too friendly; Jon was nowhere to be found. Dean was engaging and Jeff was quite friendly. To your question - I really couldn't tell that there were issues by their actions on or off stage. "

Were you at the Meet and Greet in Virginia? So how was Neal a prick? Just curious!!

Scarab Pilot wrote:

SusieP wrote:

joybringer1 wrote:

RockinDeano wrote:They knew. Bitch and Squirt knew all along.

Thanks everyone for the replies. I've just picked up on this cryptic comment. Does "all along" mean right from the moment they hired Jeff to bail them out? Are you saying they never had any intentions of this being a permanent gig? That they only announced Jeff as permanent replacement as a cynical ploy to keep him sweet on the European tour - all the time knowing they were going to drop him afterwards? Only playing with him when talking about writing together and a new album?

Please, say it ain't so. Please say that in the beginning they DID mean all that stuff. Leave me with SOME faith in the human nature of Journey.

We'll probably never know.
I think a lot of people suspect that JC wasn't as enamoured with Jeff as other Band members were from the start.
And if that is the case, maybe it took him awhile to 'persuade' the others to come around to his way of thinking?
Just a thought.

I thought it was evident in Andrew's interview with Fridga that he wasn't too keen on JSS. I'll go back and re-read it but I didnt come away with the feeling that Fagga was convinced that JSS was right from the start.

Fro and Fagga....

That's right, and if Neal was quite keen on JSS, but JC wasn't, then maybe he's been working on Neal to get him to change his mind. If that's the case then he should have timed it better.
That is BEFORE they announced Jeff as permanent singer.