MR

JOURNEY pissed off a great deal of the fan base with Tapegate and the "release" of SA. Now they've pissed off even more by pulling the rug out from under JSS.

Maybe this is pure genius. Maybe we're not giving credit where it's due?

Ultimately, had they kept going with JSS they'd have a divided fan base. SA fans would argue, "SA sang the legacy songs better." while JSS fans would reply, "Yeah - well at least Jeff is LIVE." In the meantime the general fans would all be saying, "Knock it off, already! We just want to hear the Dirty Dozen!"

It would never end.

So what do you do? You piss off everybody (except the general fans). Make it all even.

Now that JOURNEY's hardcore fans are all pissed - the war is over. The JOURNEY version of Shock & Awe.

What's left are the general fans. Since all they want to hear are the Dirty Dozen AND since all JOURNEY wants to do is play then - HOW CAN THEY LOSE?

Wheels Of Fyre wrote:JOURNEY pissed off a great deal of the fan base with Tapegate and the "release" of SA. Now they've pissed off even more by pulling the rug out from under JSS.

Maybe this is pure genius. Maybe we're not giving credit where it's due?

Ultimately, had they kept going with JSS they'd have a divided fan base. SA fans would argue, "SA sang the legacy songs better." while JSS fans would reply, "Yeah - well at least Jeff is LIVE." In the meantime the general fans would all be saying, "Knock it off, already! We just want to hear the Dirty Dozen!"

It would never end.

So what do you do? You piss off everybody (except the general fans). Make it all even.

Now that JOURNEY's hardcore fans are all pissed - the war is over. The JOURNEY version of Shock & Awe.

What's left are the general fans. Since all they want to hear are the Dirty Dozen AND since all JOURNEY wants to do is play then - HOW CAN THEY LOSE?

The question isnt how can they lsoe. The question is what can they WIN?
Sure , its about money. But youd think by now they have more priorities in life than just addin more to their bank accounts.

Behshad wrote:

Wheels Of Fyre wrote:JOURNEY pissed off a great deal of the fan base with Tapegate and the "release" of SA. Now they've pissed off even more by pulling the rug out from under JSS.

Maybe this is pure genius. Maybe we're not giving credit where it's due?

Ultimately, had they kept going with JSS they'd have a divided fan base. SA fans would argue, "SA sang the legacy songs better." while JSS fans would reply, "Yeah - well at least Jeff is LIVE." In the meantime the general fans would all be saying, "Knock it off, already! We just want to hear the Dirty Dozen!"

It would never end.

So what do you do? You piss off everybody (except the general fans). Make it all even.

Now that JOURNEY's hardcore fans are all pissed - the war is over. The JOURNEY version of Shock & Awe.

What's left are the general fans. Since all they want to hear are the Dirty Dozen AND since all JOURNEY wants to do is play then - HOW CAN THEY LOSE?

The question isnt how can they lsoe. The question is what can they WIN?
Sure , its about money. But youd think by now they have more priorities in life than just addin more to their bank accounts.

Maybe they've already won? The hardcore fans argue that JOURNEY's NOT relevant. While it's true that they're not releveant to today's youth as they were to the youth back in the day - they ARE relevant to the general fans and the rest of the world who simply want to hear the legacy stuff.

That's not MY preference for relevancy but how can it be argued that losing the minority of fans is detrimental?

Wheels Of Fyre wrote:

Behshad wrote:

Wheels Of Fyre wrote:JOURNEY pissed off a great deal of the fan base with Tapegate and the "release" of SA. Now they've pissed off even more by pulling the rug out from under JSS.

Maybe this is pure genius. Maybe we're not giving credit where it's due?

Ultimately, had they kept going with JSS they'd have a divided fan base. SA fans would argue, "SA sang the legacy songs better." while JSS fans would reply, "Yeah - well at least Jeff is LIVE." In the meantime the general fans would all be saying, "Knock it off, already! We just want to hear the Dirty Dozen!"

It would never end.

So what do you do? You piss off everybody (except the general fans). Make it all even.

Now that JOURNEY's hardcore fans are all pissed - the war is over. The JOURNEY version of Shock & Awe.

What's left are the general fans. Since all they want to hear are the Dirty Dozen AND since all JOURNEY wants to do is play then - HOW CAN THEY LOSE?

The question isnt how can they lsoe. The question is what can they WIN?
Sure , its about money. But youd think by now they have more priorities in life than just addin more to their bank accounts.

Maybe they've already won? The hardcore fans argue that JOURNEY's NOT relevant. While it's true that they're not releveant to today's youth as they were to the youth back in the day - they ARE relevant to the general fans and the rest of the world who simply want to hear the legacy stuff.

That's not MY preference for relevancy but how can it be argued that losing the minority of fans is detrimental?

Cool so when are the coming to THE COUNTY FAIR GROUNDS in my neighborhood

Wheels Of Fyre wrote:

Behshad wrote:

Wheels Of Fyre wrote:JOURNEY pissed off a great deal of the fan base with Tapegate and the "release" of SA. Now they've pissed off even more by pulling the rug out from under JSS.

Maybe this is pure genius. Maybe we're not giving credit where it's due?

Ultimately, had they kept going with JSS they'd have a divided fan base. SA fans would argue, "SA sang the legacy songs better." while JSS fans would reply, "Yeah - well at least Jeff is LIVE." In the meantime the general fans would all be saying, "Knock it off, already! We just want to hear the Dirty Dozen!"

It would never end.

So what do you do? You piss off everybody (except the general fans). Make it all even.

Now that JOURNEY's hardcore fans are all pissed - the war is over. The JOURNEY version of Shock & Awe.

What's left are the general fans. Since all they want to hear are the Dirty Dozen AND since all JOURNEY wants to do is play then - HOW CAN THEY LOSE?

The question isnt how can they lsoe. The question is what can they WIN?
Sure , its about money. But youd think by now they have more priorities in life than just addin more to their bank accounts.

Maybe they've already won? The hardcore fans argue that JOURNEY's NOT relevant. While it's true that they're not releveant to today's youth as they were to the youth back in the day - they ARE relevant to the general fans and the rest of the world who simply want to hear the legacy stuff.

That's not MY preference for relevancy but how can it be argued that losing the minority of fans is detrimental?

Youre still missing the point! Define losing and winning. If youre talkin about money, yes sure, theyre wining,,, if your talkin about support , morals and loyalty from fans, theyre not. Genreal audience isnt everything. If a band plays JUST to make money, then I think theyre not worth listening to.
Sure in any and every profession money plays an important roll, but in Journey's case right now, it seems like money is EVERYTHING to them.
I bet you 15 years ago, Neal himself would be disgusted with him and his buddies, if someone wouldve predicted that his band would end up here 15 years later!

How can they lose?

They lost something very important here.......respect.
The respect of their core fans and the respect of their peers. Just look what Brian May had to say on the matter.

You are so right Susie. Respect is everything.

Sassie wrote:You are so right Susie. Respect is everything.

yep, and as they say, ''the love of money is the root of all evil.''

OMG Behshad, that sig is classic!! LMAO.

Now I wonder who Jon has been talking about when he says that Journey's fans are golden. Neal and Jon most likely feel that that hardcore fans are the troublemakers, while 99.99% of the money they make comes from the casual fan who doesn't post a negative comment on the internet and hurt their feelings. So now they've not only fired Steve and Jeff, they've fired us.

Ray

kmjrr wrote:Now I wonder who Jon has been talking about when he says that Journey's fans are golden. Neal and Jon most likely feel that that hardcore fans are the troublemakers, while 99.99% of the money they make comes from the casual fan who doesn't post a negative comment on the internet and hurt their feelings. So now they've not only fired Steve and Jeff, they've fired us.

Ray

He sure as hell didn't get that from 'talking' to the fans because he treats them like shit.

We go to tons of concerts, and most people that we talk to know nothing about what's going on with these bands.
They just go to have a good time and hear the songs.

SusieP wrote:How can they lose?

They lost something very important here.......respect.
The respect of their core fans and the respect of their peers. Just look what Brian May had to say on the matter.

Bravo!! Exactly!

http://forums.melodicrock.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=36

Come on ova -

People are upset here and the events that happend in the past until now, they know how Journey opperates with lead singers/band members. They've followed them their whole life and have been diehards for so many years, and when something like this goes down for the last time (hopefully) then I can see why they had enough. But, people on this board can't think of everyone. Of course there's pissed off fans, but the majority of the whole beast, is that people don't really give a damn what they do. Steve Perry, Steve Augeri, Jeff Scott Soto, Greg Rollie, and the list goes on, they WILL GO SEE THEM BECAUSE ALL THEY CARE ABOUT IS SEEING THE GREATEST HITS. That's what made Journey, JOURNEY.

Whether what reputation they have, people love Journey, and their songs and will go out to support them. Hell, half of the people that go to concerts don't even know the lead singers name if it Doesn't start in an S and ends in a P. The point is the music, and no matter what, as long as Journey will tour, that means fans will keep on going to see one of the great rock bands of all time, and they know that. In the end, Journey wins.

Journey didn't piss off a lot with the release of SA, They pissed off a lot of people who accepted SA as the be all, end all, replacement for Perry, but not as many as is suggested in the first post. I'll give you the point that tapegate pissed many off, but when they brought Jeff in, many didn't forgive as much as let it slide a little, but with caution. NOW, as fans or former fans of anything Neal related, the hardcore Journey fans are more than cautious, we're rightfully pissed off. They've jerked many of around for the last time. Sure many blindly supported them, with they can do no wrong attitudes, but many more hardcore fans have been pissed of at the arrogance of a certain few members of the band, and it's the last straw.

Sadly Fyre, ur probably spot on as to how FrigFro feel about this. They are getting close to retirement age. They have a new boost w/the Sopranos episode & can now take a ride on Perry's coat tails for a bit longer. What they've lost is the 20-30 of us who go to shows. They've lost those of us who buy the 5 Star tix. However, they still have the people who won't know what's going on & just go to hear the music. They think so anyway.

Personally, I think they fucked over the wrong guy when they fucked over Jeff. He's HIGHLY respected in "the biz" & has worked w/everyone. Brian May has given his thoughts on this. I bet other consummate professionals will follow suit. The journalists who raved about Jeff last yr may not be so forgiving of Journey when they bring out their next singer. Chances are good they will know at least some of what really happened here & they may put it in print. The classic rock station DJs who raved about Jeff may not be so forgiving either. The casual fan may not read these forums but they do listen to the radio & they do read the newspapers. Some of this will leak out. Some casual fans may end up deciding not to buy a ticket. Journey may have one more decent year of concerts. But it just won't last. In a yr or 2, they will not get decent venues anymore. Maybe that's all they really want anyway. Another yr or 2 & retire.

If Journey is near the end, and hitting the retirement age, then how good does that do Jeff? They did Jeff a favor the way I see it.

YoungJRNYfan wrote:If Journey is near the end, and hitting the retirement age, then how good does that do Jeff? They did Jeff a favor the way I see it.

maybe to some it would seem that way. But how they did the favor IS still the point here, for many of us.

whocares wrote:

YoungJRNYfan wrote:If Journey is near the end, and hitting the retirement age, then how good does that do Jeff? They did Jeff a favor the way I see it.

maybe to some it would seem that way. But how they did the favor IS still the point here, for many of us.

Exactly.

JourneyFuxSingers wrote:Sadly Fyre, ur probably spot on as to how FrigFro feel about this. They are getting close to retirement age. They have a new boost w/the Sopranos episode & can now take a ride on Perry's coat tails for a bit longer. What they've lost is the 20-30 of us who go to shows. They've lost those of us who buy the 5 Star tix. However, they still have the people who won't know what's going on & just go to hear the music. They think so anyway.

Personally, I think they fucked over the wrong guy when they fucked over Jeff. He's HIGHLY respected in "the biz" & has worked w/everyone. Brian May has given his thoughts on this. I bet other consummate professionals will follow suit. The journalists who raved about Jeff last yr may not be so forgiving of Journey when they bring out their next singer. Chances are good they will know at least some of what really happened here & they may put it in print. The classic rock station DJs who raved about Jeff may not be so forgiving either. The casual fan may not read these forums but they do listen to the radio & they do read the newspapers. Some of this will leak out. Some casual fans may end up deciding not to buy a ticket. Journey may have one more decent year of concerts. But it just won't last. In a yr or 2, they will not get decent venues anymore. Maybe that's all they really want anyway. Another yr or 2 & retire.

You got it, girl! To clarify: I'm not arguing that this is a good thing. I'm saying that it was probably a calculated move.

In the end they may be laughing all the way to the bank but we'll still feel betrayed. That's not surprising considernig that betrayal is so much a part of the JOURNEY history.

SusieP wrote:

Sassie wrote:You are so right Susie. Respect is everything.

yep, and as they say, ''the love of money is the root of all evil.''

I wholeheartedly agree however JOURNEY appears to be operating with much different values.

Thanks for quoting that properly. It makes me nuts when people say, "money is the root of all evil". It's the LOVE of money that is. That's precisely the point Jesus made to the rich man who wouldn't relinquish his possessions for God - that he loved his wealth more than God.

Matt 19:21-24
21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
KJV

I know how people hate biblical stuff here but I've always felt that this is one of the greatest teachings if not one of the most misunderstood. Too often it's understood that wealth is wrong. Jesus didn't speak aganist wealth. He spoke against loving it more than God.

It seems to me that this teaching could be: It's easier for a camel to walk through the eye of a needle than for one who loves anything more than God to walk in the spirit.

I'm such a holy roller. Off the Sunday soapbox!