MR

I KNOW this didn't happen, so dont jump on me for that. I'm just posing a "what if".

How would we all be feeling now if instead of the BS that went down, Jeff had come on here & said he had decided to go his "separate ways" from the band for "x" reason? Would we be THIS angry/disappointed/upset/_______[insert feeling]?

JR (Susie) wrote:I KNOW this didn't happen, so dont jump on me for that. I'm just posing a "what if".

How would we all be feeling now if instead of the BS that went down, Jeff had come on here & said he had decided to go his "separate ways" from the band for "x" reason? Would we be THIS angry/disappointed/upset/_______[insert feeling]?

That is an EXCELLENT question - very thought provoking.

Cat

JR (Susie) wrote:I KNOW this didn't happen, so dont jump on me for that. I'm just posing a "what if".

How would we all be feeling now if instead of the BS that went down, Jeff had come on here & said he had decided to go his "separate ways" from the band for "x" reason? Would we be THIS angry/disappointed/upset/_______[insert feeling]?

I would feel a whole lot better about it, all the while still being disappointed. I'm sure Jeff would approach the band and tell them face to face like a man, instead of how Journey did it, like weasels.

JR (Susie) wrote:I KNOW this didn't happen, so dont jump on me for that. I'm just posing a "what if".

How would we all be feeling now if instead of the BS that went down, Jeff had come on here & said he had decided to go his "separate ways" from the band for "x" reason? Would we be THIS angry/disappointed/upset/_______[insert feeling]?

Shocked and disappointed.Shocked,because I know Journey was a great accomplishment for him.Disappointed,because I was looking forward to hear new Journey music with his vocals in it.
But I guess I would understand his reasons and I'd appreciate the honesty.

Rick wrote:

JR (Susie) wrote:I KNOW this didn't happen, so dont jump on me for that. I'm just posing a "what if".

How would we all be feeling now if instead of the BS that went down, Jeff had come on here & said he had decided to go his "separate ways" from the band for "x" reason? Would we be THIS angry/disappointed/upset/_______[insert feeling]?

I would feel a whole lot better about it, all the while still being disappointed. I'm sure Jeff would approach the band and tell them face to face like a man, instead of how Journey did it, like weasels.

Me too.

JR (Susie) wrote:I KNOW this didn't happen, so dont jump on me for that. I'm just posing a "what if".

How would we all be feeling now if instead of the BS that went down, Jeff had come on here & said he had decided to go his "separate ways" from the band for "x" reason? Would we be THIS angry/disappointed/upset/_______[insert feeling]?

I'd still be hoping Chalfant would get the gig

*Laura wrote:

JR (Susie) wrote:I KNOW this didn't happen, so dont jump on me for that. I'm just posing a "what if".

How would we all be feeling now if instead of the BS that went down, Jeff had come on here & said he had decided to go his "separate ways" from the band for "x" reason? Would we be THIS angry/disappointed/upset/_______[insert feeling]?

Shocked and disappointed.Shocked,because I know Journey was a great accomplishment for him.Disappointed,because I was looking forward to hear new Journey music with his vocals in it.
But I guess I would understand his reasons and I'd appreciate the honesty.

Probably the same -- shocked and disappointed, and probably for the same reasons. If JSS left (and I thought about this before everything went down), it might have happened because they would've said to him, "Hey, Jeff -- I know we talked about writing new music and cutting a CD, but we changed our minds. We're only going to do legacy stuff. No new CDs on the horizon and probably ever. So get out there and bust a nut singing Don't Stop Believin' 137 times." But I wouldn't be disappointed in JSS. As now, I'd be disappointed that he would've been brought on board under false pretenses, and that Journey (read: Neal and Jon) are running back to safety (read: Perry era) with no attempt to write new music or move forward.

I think JSS would've been a good trooper and done the legacy stuff day-in and day-out for years if need be, but only under the pretense that his song-writing skills would be tapped (i.e., that he could actually be an artist and write new music, not just be a cover singer).

there would not be the outcry thats forsure...

Rick

There are two issues that came to the fore with Soto's expulson from Journey - the creative leap backwards by pursuing a Steve Perry clone, and the underhanded method by which he was removed.

I think the reasons they gave for removing Soto were stupid, but they're creatively valid.

Given the way he was thrown out, one wonders why he was even named lead singer in the first place.

I personally believe there were valid reasons to scale back Augeri as frontman both on tour and on "Generations". Deen stepping up to the mike was a pleasant surprise. I also take issue with the critics who didn't like the Ross Valory song on "Generations". It belongs there precisely because it doesn't belong there.

After tapegate, they did the best decision they could at the time - continuing to tour with someone who knew the material in and out. If you look at Soto's non-Perry like (but fresh) takes on the Dirty Dozen, a greater rock focus on the set list (the Soul SirkUS legacy), and the role of Deen as vocalist on some numbers, it's hard not to see that they had created something beautiful out of necessity. I've read comments from some of the Perry loyalists here to the effect that beacuse he's not a Perry clone, it gave them a reason to embrace this new direction. If you look at Brian May's comments about Queen and view a copy of "Return of the Champions" with Brian and Roger and Paul Rodgers, you'll see that this was a great classic rock band that was willing to strike out in a new direction and still fundamentally be true to itself. That was the very brief Soto legacy with Journey. It was Journey but it was the Journey of 2007, not the Journey of 1983.

Journey could conceivably have kept Soto on as interim vocalist indefinitely, so why did they bother naming him the lead singer late last year? In light of the firing, it wasn't simply because he could carry the band (although he does and can), and it wasn't just because he wasn't creatively invigorating the band. It could be even simpler than that: they wanted Augeri out, and naming Soto vocalist made it impossible for Steve to return, even if his voice was at 100%.

If that was indeed the primary reason for Augeri's departure, then it's easier to understand why Soto was in effect - a lead vocalist in name only, while Jon and Neal were hunting around for either Steve Perry or some clone to take his place, as they continue to cannibalize the Perry legacy, without actually having Steve Perry in the band or out on tour.

The whole thing was underhanded. While I'm mostly outraged at the way they went about this, if you listen to the magic of the last lineup, or envisioned the places they could have taken the band (especially in light of the choices they made for "Generations" and the 30th anniversary tour), it's hard not to look at this as the worst possible choice done in the worst possible way.

I understand the motives of the Steve Perry supporters. Perry was a linchpin to the great success of Journey in the late 1970s and 1980s, and it's impossible think of the band without also thinking of his role in it. I sympathize with those who followed Augeri since 1999 and thought he got a raw deal last year, including the way he was permanently removed from the equation. What I don't understand is why anybody would be supportive of Neal and Jon basically going through this process all over again. It's turly mystifying. Anybody who takes this job will have to deal with both perceptions of their own credibility (because they were hired basically because they sound like Steve Perry), and who they're working for (Neal and Jon, the duo who fired three previous vocalists). To some extent Augeri overcame his diminished expectations. I don't envy the next guy.

larocque6689 wrote:It could be even simpler than that: they wanted Augeri out, and naming Soto vocalist made it impossible for Steve to return, even if his voice was at 100%.

I had never even thought of that. Good point.

What I don't understand is why anybody would be supportive of Neal and Jon basically going through this process all over again.

U made great points, but the one thing u didnt address (or maybe u did & it wasnt clear) is how would u have felt if Jeff left voluntarily & they moved on w/another Perry-soundalike? Would u still feel the same way?

I would feel disappointed and sad, but not angry, with the band, if they had let Soto exit honorably. I would only be having issues with the musical direction of the band. This goes one level further than that, which is why I am basically done with them.

JR (Susie) wrote:I KNOW this didn't happen, so dont jump on me for that. I'm just posing a "what if".

How would we all be feeling now if instead of the BS that went down, Jeff had come on here & said he had decided to go his "separate ways" from the band for "x" reason? Would we be THIS angry/disappointed/upset/_______[insert feeling]?

I wouldn't have cared. He had no original music, so in spite of all of the potential that presented itself, I didn't feel attached to that particular lineup in any way.

If Soto had left on his own accord I probably would have wondered about internal struggles within the band...i.e. it seemed Jeff was so happy and psyched to be in this band and he really was trying to connect with the fans in a way that hadnt really been done in a while...

I guess I would have thought that maybe there was personality conflicts and thats why he would have left....it seemed he was putting his heart and soul into Journey so for him to leave would have been shocking.

E

larocque6689 wrote:There are two issues that came to the fore with Soto's expulson from Journey - the creative leap backwards by pursuing a Steve Perry clone, and the underhanded method by which he was removed.

Agreed.

larocque6689 wrote:Given the way he was thrown out, one wonders why he was even named lead singer in the first place.

Do you think JSS insisted on the word "permanent" being included in the press release announcing him as lead singer? That's my theory.

larocque6689 wrote:this was a great classic rock band that was willing to strike out in a new direction and still fundamentally be true to itself. That was the very brief Soto legacy with Journey. It was Journey but it was the Journey of 2007, not the Journey of 1983.

That was my view too.

larocque6689 wrote:so why did they bother naming him the lead singer late last year?

I think he only agreed to take the job if Neal'/Jon's verbal assertions that he was the new lead singer of Journey were actually put into writing. JSS maybe thought that putting "permanent" in writing -- announced to all the fans -- might give him job security for awhile. Wrong.

larocque6689 wrote:The whole thing was underhanded.

Yup.

larocque6689 wrote: .... especially in light of the choices they made for "Generations" and the 30th anniversary tour ....

Which choices, larocque?

The one sentence was badly written. I thought some of the choices they made on that tour were interesting such as getting Deen to song. And conceptually, Generations was an interesting idea. It's only modestly better than Arrival but they shuffled the deck more. I find I listen to that more than Arrival or Trial by Fire, of the last three, and even the over-produced Raised on Radio. They changed the formula on that record, away from the "same old". They also changed the formula on the tour a bit. Then they got Jeff. I was actually excited about where this band was heading until two weeks ago. Now, no more.

JR (Susie) wrote:I KNOW this didn't happen, so dont jump on me for that. I'm just posing a "what if".

How would we all be feeling now if instead of the BS that went down, Jeff had come on here & said he had decided to go his "separate ways" from the band for "x" reason? Would we be THIS angry/disappointed/upset/_______[insert feeling]?

Just my 2 cents here....

OH- I'd have been disappointed, sure. Because while watching them last tour, one couldn't help but get excited about you saw. And after all, Jeff is such a great guy, and (was anyway!) a one-man-Journey-Pr-machine! Not only did the shows get you hyped up- but Jeff did that as well!

But if HE had decided to leave- on his on volition- I think I personally could have handled it much better. Because there would have been a reason.

I think people are more pissed with the way it was done, not who was doing it. If they had sat with JSS and come to an amicable parting of ways, people would have wondered what they were thinking, but forgiven them much faster.

If he left of his own volition, yeah I would be disappointed, because I was really looking forward to seeing what he could do with them (or maybe for them). Would I be this angry? No. We all know why it's such an agering situation. But if it were his own choice, I wouldn't mind because of that word right there - choice. But it sounds as if the way it was handled was just beyond disrespectful, especially since they went through the trouble to officially name him the lead in December. I can understand if maybe they cut an album and things didn't work from there, or any number of scenarios that could have come from that but they never even got that far. Out of nowhere the guy starts hearing from other people that he's out? WTF?

To handle it the way they did, and just months after giving him the position is what bothers me.
They used the DSB attention to bury the story and still have said little to nothing about it.
And then the same day they did it, they pulled their forum down so no one could talk about it. It makes it look like they have all kinds of things to hide and maybe can't handle people talking about it, so they pull the plug.

To me it's not that the band is making another change it's how
they shot Soto in the back or so it seems.
I would have a much more amicable feeling towards the band
had they handled it better.

NealIsGod wrote:I think people are more pissed with the way it was done, not who was doing it. If they had sat with JSS and come to an amicable parting of ways, people would have wondered what they were thinking, but forgiven them much faster.

Bingo NIG!
For me, it's not necessarily that it happened- it's HOW it happened.

And as someone above said- if they had left Jeff in a temporary status, I don't think the uproar over this would have been as bad. Hell, probably wouldn't have happened at all! Some grumbling yes- 'cause there's always that in the Journey fan world- has been since '86

But having named him "Official Lead Singer" in December, only to turn around and suddenly make him "disappear"- without so much as a "sorry" or "we made a mistake" TO JEFF - Well, that took the situation from bad- to intolerable ( in my eyes anyway)

I keep thinking that altho some of us would be disappointed, we'd also be soooo excited to think that one of our own, Jeremey, had a chance. We'd be rooting him on like nobody's business. The band would have been better off & Jeremey's life would be a whole lot more pleasant. I wonder if they realize how poorly they handled this & wish they'd done it differently?

First of all, I'd be leary that it was HIS decision to leave. I'd probably think in the back of my mind that they were making him leave and he was saying that because he had to. He never gave any indication he was unhappy and him being a loyal type, this senario just wouldn't have happened truthfully. He was way too excited about his future with them for me to ever believe he would be the one to voluntarily leave. If he wanted to leave, he would have at least followed through on his deal to make a CD.

I would have been horribly disappointed. I was so looking forward to their new album. I am not JUST upset at how they treated him, I am also upset that they robbed us of a JSS/Journey cd that we were told we would have. I am a fan of Jeff's solo stuff, so the thought of getting an album with him and Journey was what had me drawn so much to them this past year.

For me this line up is the ONLY reason I was going to see Journey live again. Without this line up I will not. For me it's Perry, Jeff or NO ONE.

StevePerryHair wrote: I am also upset that they robbed us of a JSS/Journey cd that we were told we would have.

This reminded me how good they are at robbing fans of things they build us up to expect. They cheated the loons out of an ROR DVD, the wigglers out of that Dallas DVD, & they totally stuck it to the sotolocos & left us emptyhanded. At least the wigglers got 1 DVD & 2.5 CDs. Ya hear that wigglers? Made out like frigging bandits.

If JSS had quit Journey instead of the other way around, we'd probably all still be upset with the guys for somehow dumping another lead singer. I'm sure of it.

It was definately handled in a poor way. Jeff is a great guy. He really didn't deserve to be release in the way they did.
I too would like to hear a Journey studio album with him at the lead vocal spot. Oh well.

As a fan, I will still go see them...and hopefully it won't be a regretable experience.

conversationpc wrote:If JSS had quit Journey instead of the other way around, we'd probably all still be upset with the guys for somehow dumping another lead singer. I'm sure of it.

Dave, you're saying that most posters here are looking for things to crucify the band for? I find that hard to believe. (Insert sarcasm icon here.)

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:If JSS had quit Journey instead of the other way around, we'd probably all still be upset with the guys for somehow dumping another lead singer. I'm sure of it.

Dave, you're saying that most posters here are looking for things to crucify the band for? I find that hard to believe. (Insert sarcasm icon here.)

I would have been very surprised because this was a HUGE dream for Jeff, I would have found it hard to believe he'd walk away. But no, not upset the way I was over how he was treated. Jeff has too much more to be a fan of & more to offer in the future, so nope, wouldn't have been upset at all. Just surprised .

NealIsGod wrote:I think people are more pissed with the way it was done, not who was doing it. If they had sat with JSS and come to an amicable parting of ways, people would have wondered what they were thinking, but forgiven them much faster.

True dat.

Saint John wrote:
I wouldn't have cared. He had no original music, so in spite of all of the potential that presented itself, I didn't feel attached to that particular lineup in any way.

Agree. The (over?)reaction to it by too many reminds me of a microcosm of the wailing and gnashing of teeth that went on in June of '98 by perry jihadists, and then the weird cult-like "karma is coming to the band and we know where you live deano" campaign last year of the augeridrivebyshooter lycanthropes. But the classic lineup is the classic lineup and the augeri era had releases and 8 years of touring.

But don't mistake that for me not being disappointed as hell that JSS did not get the chance to record that crucial first album I was so looking forward to and going from there. I mean, what the hell happened?