Augeri Somewhat Vindicated ?

[cscott]

For quite awile I have been reading the posts on this board and have even e-mailed Andrew on a few occasions regarding different topics, (and yes, he was kind enough to respond in a very quick manner) but have never really felt the need to throw in my 2 cents until now. I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing. I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his perfomances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more. Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didnt read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved. What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to thier touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out. I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likibility. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilites toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.

Well, now that JSS has been dismissed of his duties as well, it seems that there is a different attitude toward SA as well. I am very pleased to see some positive remarks being made about SA again, and even though there are still criticisms, they aren't without merit and are pretty fair observations. It's nice to see some people actually standing up and showing support and even gratitude for SA's contribution and not be attacked by others for a change. Personally, I think that SA had the hardest job in rock and roll and did his best for many years. I wish him and his family well, and I thank him for putting on a great performances and entertaining myself and my friends. On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

[StoneCold]

I've seen SP 5 times. 4 in Journey, 1 solo. All great shows. After TBF and no tour, I pretty much forgot about Journey.

Ended up hearing about Arrival and caught a few shows with SA. It wasn't glass breaking vocals but they were fun shows. I had a good time so I got my money's worth.

[Rick]

I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing.

I now agree with this statement.

I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his performances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more.

I think they used total vocal replacement for Augeri during the singing parts.

Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didn't read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved.

I now agree with this statement as well. It looks more and more like the gun was being held to his head. Some members of Journey have been known to have financial obligations above their means. And lets face it, when Perry walked out on touring TBF, that put the band in a nasty financial pinch. They had to tour Augeri to death just to get out from under that.

What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to their touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out.

And mostly to cover the debt caused by TBF.

I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likability. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilities toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.

I agree, and I think he does deserve credit for a lot, and his downfalls weren't entirely of his own doing.

On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

Good question. The frontrunner is Jeremey. A super nice guy with a great voice. I'll try to support Jeremey, but I'm done supporting Journey. I'm pissed at them for their treatment of Soto and now what looks to be Augeri. I wish those gag orders didn't exist, I bet we would hear some pretty good stories.

[Andrew]

For quite awile I have been reading the posts on this board and have even e-mailed Andrew on a few occasions regarding different topics, (and yes, he was kind enough to respond in a very quick manner) but have never really felt the need to throw in my 2 cents until now. I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing. I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his perfomances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more. Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didnt read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved. What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to thier touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out. I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likibility. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilites toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.

Well, now that JSS has been dismissed of his duties as well, it seems that there is a different attitude toward SA as well. I am very pleased to see some positive remarks being made about SA again, and even though there are still criticisms, they aren't without merit and are pretty fair observations. It's nice to see some people actually standing up and showing support and even gratitude for SA's contribution and not be attacked by others for a change. Personally, I think that SA had the hardest job in rock and roll and did his best for many years. I wish him and his family well, and I thank him for putting on a great performances and entertaining myself and my friends. On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

Post Of The Week.
Well thought out and perfectly stated. And perhaps, quite right also.

[conversationpc]

Well said.

[Ms_M]

For quite awile I have been reading the posts on this board and have even e-mailed Andrew on a few occasions regarding different topics, (and yes, he was kind enough to respond in a very quick manner) but have never really felt the need to throw in my 2 cents until now. I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing. I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his perfomances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more. Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didnt read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved. What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to thier touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out. I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likibility. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilites toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.

Well, now that JSS has been dismissed of his duties as well, it seems that there is a different attitude toward SA as well. I am very pleased to see some positive remarks being made about SA again, and even though there are still criticisms, they aren't without merit and are pretty fair observations. It's nice to see some people actually standing up and showing support and even gratitude for SA's contribution and not be attacked by others for a change. Personally, I think that SA had the hardest job in rock and roll and did his best for many years. I wish him and his family well, and I thank him for putting on a great performances and entertaining myself and my friends. On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

Interesting points. I agree with many of your very well thought out ideas. Welcome to MR!

[piecesofeight]

For quite awile I have been reading the posts on this board and have even e-mailed Andrew on a few occasions regarding different topics, (and yes, he was kind enough to respond in a very quick manner) but have never really felt the need to throw in my 2 cents until now. I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing. I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his perfomances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more. Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didnt read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved. What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to thier touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out. I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likibility. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilites toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.


Well, now that JSS has been dismissed of his duties as well, it seems that there is a different attitude toward SA as well. I am very pleased to see some positive remarks being made about SA again, and even though there are still criticisms, they aren't without merit and are pretty fair observations. It's nice to see some people actually standing up and showing support and even gratitude for SA's contribution and not be attacked by others for a change. Personally, I think that SA had the hardest job in rock and roll and did his best for many years. I wish him and his family well, and I thank him for putting on a great performances and entertaining myself and my friends. On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

Great post, and while I agree with a lot of what was said here...I am a bit surprised at what level Steve P. is now getting off the hook by so many.
Let's not forget that he decided-for whatever reasons-but he still dicided to play a role in it. While we don't know the consequences if he hadn't, he still did it.
I am not self employed, but when I had a boss, if he or the company had asked me to do something that was wrong, if I had done it, I would have been just as wrong.
He could have not done it and spoken out why, maybe. I know, much easier to sit here and type than do if I was in his shoes. I would think that speaking out when being asked to do something like this would't fall into confidentiality agreements.
To have it make sense or convinve me, I still need to read a really good reason as to why so many now think that Steve A. should't be blamed, why it wasn't his fault, did nothing wrong, should be off the hook, etc..
Just because we are really learning now what shmuck's people involved in Journey are and how they treated Jeff, doesn't mean that Steve P. should be so innocent now.
I'm not trying to stir up crap at all and I actually really want to understand why he should be forgiven as I really liked the guy and would just like to read a well thought out reason from someone who doesn't blame him anymore, as I actually would like to also.
I would like to be where a lot of you are with Steve A., so let me read some really good reasons why you don't blame him anymore.

[Saint John]

For quite awile I have been reading the posts on this board and have even e-mailed Andrew on a few occasions regarding different topics, (and yes, he was kind enough to respond in a very quick manner) but have never really felt the need to throw in my 2 cents until now. I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing. I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his perfomances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more. Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didnt read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved. What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to thier touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out. I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likibility. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilites toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.


Well, now that JSS has been dismissed of his duties as well, it seems that there is a different attitude toward SA as well. I am very pleased to see some positive remarks being made about SA again, and even though there are still criticisms, they aren't without merit and are pretty fair observations. It's nice to see some people actually standing up and showing support and even gratitude for SA's contribution and not be attacked by others for a change. Personally, I think that SA had the hardest job in rock and roll and did his best for many years. I wish him and his family well, and I thank him for putting on a great performances and entertaining myself and my friends. On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

Great post, and while I agree with a lot of what was said here...I am a bit surprised at what level Steve P. is now getting off the hook by so many.
Let's not forget that he decided-for whatever reasons-but he still dicided to play a role in it. While we don't know the consequences if he hadn't, he still did it.
I am not self employed, but when I had a boss, if he or the company had asked me to do something that was wrong, if I had done it, I would have been just as wrong.
He could have not done it and spoken out why, maybe. I know, much easier to sit here and type than do if I was in his shoes. I would think that speaking out when being asked to do something like this would't fall into confidentiality agreements.
To have it make sense or convinve me, I still need to read a really good reason as to why so many now think that Steve A. should't be blamed, why it wasn't his fault, did nothing wrong, should be off the hook, etc..
Just because we are really learning now what shmuck's people involved in Journey are and how they treated Jeff, doesn't mean that Steve P. should be so innocent now.
I'm not trying to stir up crap at all and I actually really want to understand why he should be forgiven as I really liked the guy and would just like to read a well thought out reason from someone who doesn't blame him anymore, as I actually would like to also.
I would like to be where a lot of you are with Steve A., so let me read some really good reasons why you don't blame him anymore.

I'll answer your last question.


1) It was a job quickly coming to an end. Grab all you can WHILE you can.
2) I'm sure he was MORE than pressured into doing what he did.
3) If the founding member and the band's transgender keyboardist didn't care about the "legacy" or the possibility of being exposed, why should a singer that enjoyed zero commercial success? It's unfathomable to think that Augeri came up with this idea and talked mangement and Schon-Friga into it. My guess is Augeri was the last to be told of what was GOING to happen.
4) I've noticed a pattern devoloping over the last 20 years. Perry-fired. Augeri-forced to walk the plank and then discarded. Soto-lauded, promised, used, knifed and tossed to the side of the road. These guys are simply not capable of making decisions that end with any sort of class. While I DON'T disagree with all of their decisions, I certainly disagree with the manner they they were handled. These guys are the Al-Qaeda of the music business.

[frostbite]

Augeri was shafted just like JSS was. I've nothing but respect for those two guys. Augeri shouldn't have been pushed so damn hard and JSS shouldn't have been duped into thinking he was more than what he was; the only singer with balls big enough to take the job on at the time. Tapes? So what? Go have a word with Ozzy, Blackie Lawless and countless others I've had the dubious pleasure of working with. All pre-recorded vocals. I'll always love Journey's music but I doubt I'll ever see them live again. They're all about taking our hard earned bucks at any cost. I met Augeri and he gave a damn about the music. He gave Journey a credible second chance and every one of us should at least respect him for that.

[Liz22562]

Cscott reiterated what several of us have been saying since last summer.

Thanks for posting Cscott!

[separate_wayz]

For quite awile I have been reading the posts on this board and have even e-mailed Andrew on a few occasions regarding different topics, (and yes, he was kind enough to respond in a very quick manner) but have never really felt the need to throw in my 2 cents until now. I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing. I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his perfomances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more. Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didnt read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved. What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to thier touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out. I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likibility. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilites toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.


Well, now that JSS has been dismissed of his duties as well, it seems that there is a different attitude toward SA as well. I am very pleased to see some positive remarks being made about SA again, and even though there are still criticisms, they aren't without merit and are pretty fair observations. It's nice to see some people actually standing up and showing support and even gratitude for SA's contribution and not be attacked by others for a change. Personally, I think that SA had the hardest job in rock and roll and did his best for many years. I wish him and his family well, and I thank him for putting on a great performances and entertaining myself and my friends. On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

Great post, and while I agree with a lot of what was said here...I am a bit surprised at what level Steve P. is now getting off the hook by so many.
Let's not forget that he decided-for whatever reasons-but he still dicided to play a role in it. While we don't know the consequences if he hadn't, he still did it.
I am not self employed, but when I had a boss, if he or the company had asked me to do something that was wrong, if I had done it, I would have been just as wrong.
He could have not done it and spoken out why, maybe. I know, much easier to sit here and type than do if I was in his shoes. I would think that speaking out when being asked to do something like this would't fall into confidentiality agreements.
To have it make sense or convinve me, I still need to read a really good reason as to why so many now think that Steve A. should't be blamed, why it wasn't his fault, did nothing wrong, should be off the hook, etc..
Just because we are really learning now what shmuck's people involved in Journey are and how they treated Jeff, doesn't mean that Steve P. should be so innocent now.
I'm not trying to stir up crap at all and I actually really want to understand why he should be forgiven as I really liked the guy and would just like to read a well thought out reason from someone who doesn't blame him anymore, as I actually would like to also.
I would like to be where a lot of you are with Steve A., so let me read some really good reasons why you don't blame him anymore.

I'll answer your last question.


1) It was a job quickly coming to an end. Grab all you can WHILE you can.
2) I'm sure he was MORE than pressured into doing what he did.
3) If the founding member and the band's transgender keyboardist didn't care about the "legacy" or the possibility of being exposed, why should a singer that enjoyed zero commercial success? It's unfathomable to think that Augeri came up with this idea and talked mangement and Schon-Friga into it. My guess is Augeri was the last to be told of what was GOING to happen.
4) I've noticed a pattern devoloping over the last 20 years. Perry-fired. Augeri-forced to walk the plank and then discarded. Soto-lauded, promised, used, knifed and tossed to the side of the road. These guys are simply not capable of making decisions that end with any sort of class. While I DON'T disagree with all of their decisions, I certainly disagree with the manner they they were handled. These guys are the Al-Qaeda of the music business.

I think one response following the TapeGate episode reveals a lot. Neal Schon had a quote that went something like this: "It didn't happen, and if it did, I wasn't aware of it." Wasn't aware of it?!? Wasn't aware that Kevin Elson (from Journey's 'Escape' commanding heights) was working a sound board at the European festivals, funneling the recordings and doing the mixing?!? .... Wow. That's quite a whopper. ("Gee, Kevin -- what are the chances of seeing you at our concert?!? Imagine meeting you here, simply by happenstance! I see you brought your own soundboard -- whatcha doin' there?!?")

Steve Augeri was made to walk the plank, as you said. And, yes, I'm sure he was TOLD what was going to happen. I think he was given an ultimatum: do this, or be forced out. And I think Schon no doubt, and without subtlety, reminded Augeri what good friends he was with JSS -- and that JSS had covered Journey songs in SoulSirkus and knew the basic catalog. Oh, and he's been posting on BackTalk and the fans like him. Translation: JSS could replace you at any time -- do what we want. In fact, I'm not so sure it wasn't Schon who leaked the info about the tapes to begin with, to try to force Augeri out. I think at the time Schon wanted JSS to front Journey.

Anyway, Augeri had big shoes to fill. I think he tried his best, basically being given a job with a slim chance of success. And I think Schon & Co. shit all over him.

[conversationpc]

I think one response following the TapeGate episode reveals a lot. Neal Schon had a quote that went something like this: "It didn't happen, and if it did, I wasn't aware of it." Wasn't aware of it?!? Wasn't aware that Kevin Elson (from Journey's 'Escape' commanding heights) was working a sound board at the European festivals, funneling the recordings and doing the mixing?!? .... Wow. That's quite a whopper. ("Gee, Kevin -- what are the chances of seeing you at our concert?!? Imagine meeting you here, simply by happenstance! I see you brought your own soundboard -- whatcha doin' there?!?")

Well, Neal's got tinnitus, so maybe he is partly blind also?

[Red13JoePa]

I think one response following the TapeGate episode reveals a lot. Neal Schon had a quote that went something like this: "It didn't happen, and if it did, I wasn't aware of it." Wasn't aware of it?!? Wasn't aware that Kevin Elson (from Journey's 'Escape' commanding heights) was working a sound board at the European festivals, funneling the recordings and doing the mixing?!? .... Wow. That's quite a whopper. ("Gee, Kevin -- what are the chances of seeing you at our concert?!? Imagine meeting you here, simply by happenstance! I see you brought your own soundboard -- whatcha doin' there?!?")

How come the ONLY industry "insider" who ever backed the shit up was in Europe at one of those festivals? Not only did the guy supposedly figure it out, he figured the synchronicity of it out TO THE "T."

Over here we have way more shows and way more industry people around and about but aside from Deano who was laying it out there nobody actually IN THE BUSINESS on this side of the pond knew enough of what was going on and how it was going on to say anything other than "an oline fan is purporting that upwards of 80% of Journey's lead vox are taped." But that one guy over in Europe? He had the entire thing down pat. I'm not buying all that, and I am not denying tapegate (after June of last year the preponderance of evidence was pretty much there) nor am I saying Deano was in any way in cahoots or even contact with that svente guy. Seems fishy.

[strangegrey]

Anyone that's either met Steve A or talked to him via email or whatever...knows just how gracious, nice, aproachable, caring, genuine (shit, I could go on with the boy scout code)...He's simply as stand up as they come. JSS and SA are, in my opinion, cut from similar cloth.

It's my opinion....based on what I've seen and heard....that tapegate was NOT SA's idea...he was informed (probably from the lead singer of another group somewhere in europe ) that he is to start lipping or suffer the consequences. Obviously, some have held SA responsible for TG, because he didn't stand up and go "no I wont do that!." However, no one knows what kind of financial burdens SA had at the time....anyone that's been stuck in a job they can't get out of because the mortgage has to get paid and the kids have to eat...knows EXACTLY what I'm talking about. Hell, for all we know, management might have owed him back pay and SA might have had no choice but to lip in order wait for checks to clear. God knows, when Journey doesn't want to pay someone for work done, they don't send a check until pressure is applied. This I can speak of, from personal experience!!

There have also been mention of SA getting pissed when the band decided to go live...I think this is misinterpreted as well. Imagine that you're a singer that has been lip syncing part or all of your nightly performances. When someone tells you "You're going live starting tonight", you would be pissed as well. Your voice needs to be exercised and trained and prepped for a tour. You don't go on a tour without preparation...why the hell would you be expected to sing the crap out of stuff without the same preparation after being told the tapes are getting put away?

The fact of the matter is that SA was in some ways, thrown under the bus. Sure, maybe he could have done it differently...but at who's expense. Trust me, it wouldn't have been at Journey's. That you can take to the bank.

I'm just glad that after seeing the same thing happen to JSS, that the rest of the world has finally started to see that problem in this band does not fall with the singer...Sorta along the same lines that DLR and Sammy got exhonorated when Cherone didn't work out in VH.

[Món]

Augeri was shafted just like JSS was. I've nothing but respect for those two guys. Augeri shouldn't have been pushed so damn hard and JSS shouldn't have been duped into thinking he was more than what he was; the only singer with balls big enough to take the job on at the time. Tapes? So what? Go have a word with Ozzy, Blackie Lawless and countless others I've had the dubious pleasure of working with. All pre-recorded vocals. I'll always love Journey's music but I doubt I'll ever see them live again. They're all about taking our hard earned bucks at any cost. I met Augeri and he gave a damn about the music. He gave Journey a credible second chance and every one of us should at least respect him for that.

I concur. 100%.

[Socratic Methodist]

Just for the record, and not to be trollish:

Neal is not a FOUNDING member, he is an original member. The only founding member is Herbie. Although he wasn't a musical member, he put the group together.

[chf34jmac]

SM you are incorrect. Herbie built Journey around Neals Guitar playing ability. So yes Herbie Founded it but so did Neal. Without his guitar to begin with - No Journey

[treetopovskaya]

anyone who ever sang for journey should feel vindicated. };C)

[Socratic Methodist]

SM you are incorrect. Herbie built Journey around Neals Guitar playing ability. So yes Herbie Founded it but so did Neal. Without his guitar to begin with - No Journey

Ok, So David Chase created(founded) The Sopranos, but James Gandolfini was an integral member of that show, so he, in essense, is also a founding member?

hmmmm...I don't know about that.

[chf34jmac]

So what your saying then is all these management companies that come up with ideas for shows and musical groups are the founders of said idea. The performers have no part in making it a reality?

[stevew2]

For quite awile I have been reading the posts on this board and have even e-mailed Andrew on a few occasions regarding different topics, (and yes, he was kind enough to respond in a very quick manner) but have never really felt the need to throw in my 2 cents until now. I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing. I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his perfomances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more. Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didnt read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved. What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to thier touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out. I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likibility. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilites toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.

Well, now that JSS has been dismissed of his duties as well, it seems that there is a different attitude toward SA as well. I am very pleased to see some positive remarks being made about SA again, and even though there are still criticisms, they aren't without merit and are pretty fair observations. It's nice to see some people actually standing up and showing support and even gratitude for SA's contribution and not be attacked by others for a change. Personally, I think that SA had the hardest job in rock and roll and did his best for many years. I wish him and his family well, and I thank him for putting on a great performances and entertaining myself and my friends. On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

Good post, couldnt agree more

[Calbear94]

I think one response following the TapeGate episode reveals a lot. Neal Schon had a quote that went something like this: "It didn't happen, and if it did, I wasn't aware of it." Wasn't aware of it?!? Wasn't aware that Kevin Elson (from Journey's 'Escape' commanding heights) was working a sound board at the European festivals, funneling the recordings and doing the mixing?!? .... Wow. That's quite a whopper. ("Gee, Kevin -- what are the chances of seeing you at our concert?!? Imagine meeting you here, simply by happenstance! I see you brought your own soundboard -- whatcha doin' there?!?")

Of course Neal knew, but like Richard Nixon wasn't about to admit his involvement, which would have led to professional suicide. Neal gets a pass though, because this is just music we're talking about. Isn't Elson Journey's touring sound engineer, or is that the other Kevin (I get them confused)?

[Socratic Methodist]

So what your saying then is all these management companies that come up with ideas for shows and musical groups are the founders of said idea. The performers have no part in making it a reality?

Wow...I didn't initially notice you with the new AV.......lol

Nah, I'm just arguing semantics with ya.....They have a part in making it a reality, but they aren't the creators/founders of it.

That's like if I invented a widget, and you worked at the factory that produced it. You helped in its manufacturing, but really didn't invent it, did you?

I'm just trying to point out that Neal is nothing special, aside from his axe playing. He isn't to be thrust upon a higher pedestal because he is an original member, in fact, just the opposite. Because he'd probably be just an instru-mental midget right now if HERBIE didn't TELL him, 'Hey this is your new singer, BTW'. And you have no say in the matter'. That tells me that Neal had absolutely no control 3 or 4 years into Journey. IMHO.

[Aaron]

Ditto, well done cscott!

For quite awile I have been reading the posts on this board and have even e-mailed Andrew on a few occasions regarding different topics, (and yes, he was kind enough to respond in a very quick manner) but have never really felt the need to throw in my 2 cents until now. I have to admit that when the whole Tapegate thing went down, I thought that SA was beat up quite badly for something that may or may not been of his own doing. I won't belabor the subject here because it has been addressed a million times, but suffice it to say that most people here believe that his perfomances where at least partially enhanced with recordings for the last tour and maybe even more. Additionally, I think that we can for the most part agree that we will probably never get the whole story, and thus, we will never be able to know for certain why SA would agree to participate in something like that. Let's face it, we weren't there, we didnt read the contracts, or know what kind of legal or financial pressures were involved. What we do know is that SA was instrumental in reviving Journey's career and literally brought them back from the dead to be able to play large venues again. We also know that in order to do this, Journey was on the road constantly year after year - even adding on additional legs and shows to thier touring schedule to the point that SA's voice finally gave out. I personally had the opportunity to see them with SA 4 times, and for the most part I thought he sounded pretty good, and for what he lacked in vocal power, he made up for in showmanship and likibility. Needles to say, I was disappointed by how many people on this board seemed to forget all that SA had done for the band and only focused on his eroding vocal capabilites toward the end of his tenure with Journey. Yeah, he disappointed us, but he still deserves credit for his contribution in spite of his downfalls.

Well, now that JSS has been dismissed of his duties as well, it seems that there is a different attitude toward SA as well. I am very pleased to see some positive remarks being made about SA again, and even though there are still criticisms, they aren't without merit and are pretty fair observations. It's nice to see some people actually standing up and showing support and even gratitude for SA's contribution and not be attacked by others for a change. Personally, I think that SA had the hardest job in rock and roll and did his best for many years. I wish him and his family well, and I thank him for putting on a great performances and entertaining myself and my friends. On that note, I wonder if Journey will ever be a great band again, or who they can get that will make them be a band that I would want to see again.

Post Of The Week.
Well thought out and perfectly stated. And perhaps, quite right also.

[Big J]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Augeri did as many as 5 shows before finding out his shot-up voice wasn't what people in the crowd were hearing.

I don't think the "big" mic was being used early on.

[Soto All The Way]

Wow.....Great post....

e-

[CatEyes]

Excellent post cscott........ well done


Cat

[CatEyes]

I think one response following the TapeGate episode reveals a lot. Neal Schon had a quote that went something like this: "It didn't happen, and if it did, I wasn't aware of it." Wasn't aware of it?!? Wasn't aware that Kevin Elson (from Journey's 'Escape' commanding heights) was working a sound board at the European festivals, funneling the recordings and doing the mixing?!? .... Wow. That's quite a whopper. ("Gee, Kevin -- what are the chances of seeing you at our concert?!? Imagine meeting you here, simply by happenstance! I see you brought your own soundboard -- whatcha doin' there?!?")

This is a question that many started asking even before before JSS even stepped on stage.

Then when Augeri was thrown under the bus, the question I posted was "Why does Kevin Elson still have a job?"

Of course, we got beaten up at the time, and probably will again (oh well)

Cat

[KittyKat]

I was on board for the whole TG fiasco and wanted the same thing as Deano, no LS. It was proven that SA was doing it but I was in no way giving the whole band a pass, it was a group effort by a band that didn't care about cheating their fans. Did they come clean of their own volition? Hell no! What happened next was the worse possible scenario that was never the intended outcome by Deano or the other fans that were backing the TG fiasco. Throwing SA under the bus is at best an understatement, they put him on public display in front of thousands as well as media, fans and other artists all watched with disgust and disbelief. Replacing SA could have simply been done with the announcement of health reasons without the uncalled for humiliation tack they chose instead so they could go on without any accountability for the TG.

JSS came in and the reviews from fans and media soared. He saved their asses when they needed it most, gave a great new image to that band, rearranged his career and so much more. I can't for the life of me come up with any justifiable reason that JSS is announced as the new band member, singer and then out of the clear blue gets the ax. Again, look at the way they went about it. Everything was forgiven by most when they replaced SA with JSS. I don't think it's going to be as easy for them this time around since it's going to be real hard to understand their decision and actions to Jeff. JSS's contribution was very refreshing and even gave hope for a great comeback career for this band.

[Playitloudforme]

Logically, I cannot believe that SA didn't know what was going on with the sound and what was coming over the speakers. No way, no how. He had to know. That makes him culpable. I never believed for a second that the rest of the band was 'clueless' to what happened either, and yeah I agree...why the hell didn't Kevin get tossed out on his ass?

JSS was the only redeeming factor. He not only saved the band from a financial disaster and a very embarassing situation, he brought back a life to a band that was drowning. He won over PERRY fans, fer chrissakes.... you know how IMPOSSIBLE that shit is???

And then they fired him.

Bottom line, I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy the lead singer position for this band. It's state fairs or worse for these guys. So be it.