MR

Towards a Constructive Solution
Original Publication Date: September 23, 2002

The problems discussed in previous editorials and Op/Eds indicate that something is very, very wrong in the Journey world. Low-ranking management personnel, both paid and unpaid, have taken it upon themselves to abuse what power Journey has given them over the fan base. The most obvious instances of this abuse of power can be seen in the massive amount of people who have been banned or otherwise censored on Back Talk, the band's official forum. Further evidence that this has gotten out of hand can be seen in how one of the "moderators" of that forum, Journeycat, would actually take it upon herself to order the owner of a private tribute website to remove an editorial with which she disagreed (see "Letter to the Editor", by Journeycat, September 7, 2002). The recent Op/Ed by TowandaRG (September 13, 2002) has served to shed even more light on some of the more dastardly doings of lower management.

In order to solve this problem, we must first identify it, get to the root of it. We know that power, to whatever degree it is possessed, is a corrupting influence. Some handle its temptations better than others--and that is all the more reason for those who dole out the power to be extra careful in choosing its recipients. In selecting "moderators" from among the fan base, management elevated certain fans into positions of power over other fans, thereby creating a fan hierarchy. And by endorsing Back Talk as the official band forum, they have explicitly acknowledged that hierarchy. No fan loves the music of Journey any more than any other fan; no fan should get any special privileges not available to other fans.

Given that it is the Back Talk forum--and its explicit endorsement as the official band forum--which has created this hierarchy among Journey fans, we must now ask the purpose of having an official band forum is in the first place. Why is there a Back Talk? Well, there are two reasons. The first is to provide a band-sanctioned home for the fans, thereby maintaining goodwill for the band among the fan base. This was especially important after the virtual defection of a large portion of the fan base over the replacement of Steve Perry. The second reason for the existence of an official forum is to provide a sounding board for the band members and their creativity. The official forum aids the band members when it comes to the opinion of the fan base on any number of subjects pertaining to the future direction of the band. It helps the band members know what they've done right--or wrong--so that they can improve upon their current level of creativity.

In attempting to satisfy its first duty, to provide a welcome home for the fan base, Back Talk has a muddled record. Admittedly, the existence of multiple moderators is a response to the forum's initial failure in this capacity. The former webmaster of Journeytheband.Com, Mike Sorrentino (a.k.a. "Skylord") obviously had his hands full when it came to building the official band website and moderating the two forums that then existed--the General Forum and "Ask Journey." The incessant fighting over the lead singer debate (and other less-remembered battles) was more than any one person could handle, so the decision to increase the amount of moderators seemed logical, in order to help provide a welcome home for Journey fans. Let's face it, as the posted Back Talk rules suggest, constant bashing of fellow Journey fans or band members is uncalled for. But then the newly empowered "moderators" began to go too far. Persons were banned not for repeatedly bashing others, but for refusing to change their opinions. Before long, persons started to get banned for questioning the motivations of the "moderators." "Bashing" became synonymous with "criticizing." In attempting to bring Back Talk back from one extreme--unmonitored strife--the "moderators" went too far in the opposite direction--censorship and tyranny. As a result, a large percentage of the Journey fan base, feeling unwelcome, abandoned Back Talk for other existing forums--and some even started forums of their own.

And how has Back Talk satisfied its second duty--providing a sounding board for the band members to consult on the feelings of the fan base for their current level of creativity? On that score, Back Talk's record is abysmal. There are many Journey fans--even fans of Steve Augeri--who would like to provide the band with constructive criticism on their latest release, Red 13. There are also many fans that would like to provide constructive criticism on the operation and management of the "Under the Radar" tour. Unfortunately they have not been allowed to voice their criticism, for whenever they have made any such attempts the "moderators" have shut down their threads and deleted their posts. Frankly, "moderators" have even been known to edit the posts of others, when they have uncovered content not to their liking. In this environment, Journey fans are not free to critique the creativity of the band. And without being able to depend on such constructive criticism, the band, surrounded by "yes men" and others who keep their jobs by making the band feel good about themselves and their products, will fail to rise above their current invisibility. The band may have decided to call this tour "Under the Radar" of their own volition. But if the forum continues to censor constructive criticism, they may never get back out above the "radar" of the music industry again.

Now then, how do we solve this problem? As Victor Hugo, the great nineteenth-century French author said, "Tear down this rickety old system...and reconstruct it." Back Talk has failed to meet its dual obligation, and--through the actions of the fan hierarchy it has created--it has served to further divide the Journey fan base. For these faults it should not be maintained as the official band forum. There are in fact a multitude of forums out there that provide a welcome home for Journey fans, allow them to critique the band, and are "moderately" moderated. Many of them can be found in the "Forums" page of the PORTAL Section of Jrnydv.Com. The most popular at this time appear to be the VH1.Com Journey Forum, the MelodicRock.Com Journey Forum, and the Rock and Roll Forum, which discusses many rock acts but was started by Journey fans.

Being one of the few official band forums in the industry, Back Talk started for all the right reasons. Unfortunately, it has failed. The time has come to shut it down and end the unfair hierarchy of the privileged fans. Only then can Journey and its management move on with clean hands and the knowledge that it has done what it can to right the wrongs that have been committed in their name.

Voyager wrote:Just thought I'd see how many of you were banned from Journey's Back Talk Forum back in 2001/2002 for expressing your disagreement over the band's decision to replace Steve Perry.

Wheels Of Fyre wrote:
Basically, if a moderator or board owner doesn't like what you say or you as a person then it doesn't matter if rules are followed or not.

Liam wrote:

Wheels Of Fyre wrote:
Basically, if a moderator or board owner doesn't like what you say or you as a person then it doesn't matter if rules are followed or not.

See...that's the sad part about BT...you COULDN'T say anything against the band. Either you were for or even MORE for the band there. Sorry...I had to criticize. I'm not a lemming so I'm not gonna sit back and just enjoy the ride. BTW..This isn't directed at you, Fyre.

Voyager wrote:Just thought I'd see how many of you were banned from Journey's Back Talk Forum back in 2001/2002 for expressing your disagreement over the band's decision to replace Steve Perry. Here's a little excerpt from an article on journey-zone.com that accurately describes what happened back then:

Towards a Constructive Solution
Original Publication Date: September 23, 2002

The problems discussed in previous editorials and Op/Eds indicate that something is very, very wrong in the Journey world. Low-ranking management personnel, both paid and unpaid, have taken it upon themselves to abuse what power Journey has given them over the fan base. The most obvious instances of this abuse of power can be seen in the massive amount of people who have been banned or otherwise censored on Back Talk, the band's official forum. Further evidence that this has gotten out of hand can be seen in how one of the "moderators" of that forum, Journeycat, would actually take it upon herself to order the owner of a private tribute website to remove an editorial with which she disagreed (see "Letter to the Editor", by Journeycat, September 7, 2002). The recent Op/Ed by TowandaRG (September 13, 2002) has served to shed even more light on some of the more dastardly doings of lower management.

In order to solve this problem, we must first identify it, get to the root of it. We know that power, to whatever degree it is possessed, is a corrupting influence. Some handle its temptations better than others--and that is all the more reason for those who dole out the power to be extra careful in choosing its recipients. In selecting "moderators" from among the fan base, management elevated certain fans into positions of power over other fans, thereby creating a fan hierarchy. And by endorsing Back Talk as the official band forum, they have explicitly acknowledged that hierarchy. No fan loves the music of Journey any more than any other fan; no fan should get any special privileges not available to other fans.

Given that it is the Back Talk forum--and its explicit endorsement as the official band forum--which has created this hierarchy among Journey fans, we must now ask the purpose of having an official band forum is in the first place. Why is there a Back Talk? Well, there are two reasons. The first is to provide a band-sanctioned home for the fans, thereby maintaining goodwill for the band among the fan base. This was especially important after the virtual defection of a large portion of the fan base over the replacement of Steve Perry. The second reason for the existence of an official forum is to provide a sounding board for the band members and their creativity. The official forum aids the band members when it comes to the opinion of the fan base on any number of subjects pertaining to the future direction of the band. It helps the band members know what they've done right--or wrong--so that they can improve upon their current level of creativity.

In attempting to satisfy its first duty, to provide a welcome home for the fan base, Back Talk has a muddled record. Admittedly, the existence of multiple moderators is a response to the forum's initial failure in this capacity. The former webmaster of Journeytheband.Com, Mike Sorrentino (a.k.a. "Skylord") obviously had his hands full when it came to building the official band website and moderating the two forums that then existed--the General Forum and "Ask Journey." The incessant fighting over the lead singer debate (and other less-remembered battles) was more than any one person could handle, so the decision to increase the amount of moderators seemed logical, in order to help provide a welcome home for Journey fans. Let's face it, as the posted Back Talk rules suggest, constant bashing of fellow Journey fans or band members is uncalled for. But then the newly empowered "moderators" began to go too far. Persons were banned not for repeatedly bashing others, but for refusing to change their opinions. Before long, persons started to get banned for questioning the motivations of the "moderators." "Bashing" became synonymous with "criticizing." In attempting to bring Back Talk back from one extreme--unmonitored strife--the "moderators" went too far in the opposite direction--censorship and tyranny. As a result, a large percentage of the Journey fan base, feeling unwelcome, abandoned Back Talk for other existing forums--and some even started forums of their own.

And how has Back Talk satisfied its second duty--providing a sounding board for the band members to consult on the feelings of the fan base for their current level of creativity? On that score, Back Talk's record is abysmal. There are many Journey fans--even fans of Steve Augeri--who would like to provide the band with constructive criticism on their latest release, Red 13. There are also many fans that would like to provide constructive criticism on the operation and management of the "Under the Radar" tour. Unfortunately they have not been allowed to voice their criticism, for whenever they have made any such attempts the "moderators" have shut down their threads and deleted their posts. Frankly, "moderators" have even been known to edit the posts of others, when they have uncovered content not to their liking. In this environment, Journey fans are not free to critique the creativity of the band. And without being able to depend on such constructive criticism, the band, surrounded by "yes men" and others who keep their jobs by making the band feel good about themselves and their products, will fail to rise above their current invisibility. The band may have decided to call this tour "Under the Radar" of their own volition. But if the forum continues to censor constructive criticism, they may never get back out above the "radar" of the music industry again.

Now then, how do we solve this problem? As Victor Hugo, the great nineteenth-century French author said, "Tear down this rickety old system...and reconstruct it." Back Talk has failed to meet its dual obligation, and--through the actions of the fan hierarchy it has created--it has served to further divide the Journey fan base. For these faults it should not be maintained as the official band forum. There are in fact a multitude of forums out there that provide a welcome home for Journey fans, allow them to critique the band, and are "moderately" moderated. Many of them can be found in the "Forums" page of the PORTAL Section of Jrnydv.Com. The most popular at this time appear to be the VH1.Com Journey Forum, the MelodicRock.Com Journey Forum, and the Rock and Roll Forum, which discusses many rock acts but was started by Journey fans.

Being one of the few official band forums in the industry, Back Talk started for all the right reasons. Unfortunately, it has failed. The time has come to shut it down and end the unfair hierarchy of the privileged fans. Only then can Journey and its management move on with clean hands and the knowledge that it has done what it can to right the wrongs that have been committed in their name.

Thoughts?

Voyager wrote:Just thought I'd see how many of you were banned from Journey's Back Talk Forum back in 2001/2002 for expressing your disagreement over the band's decision to replace Steve Perry. Here's a little excerpt from an article on journey-zone.com that accurately describes what happened back then:

Towards a Constructive Solution
Original Publication Date: September 23, 2002

The problems discussed in previous editorials and Op/Eds indicate that something is very, very wrong in the Journey world. Low-ranking management personnel, both paid and unpaid, have taken it upon themselves to abuse what power Journey has given them over the fan base. The most obvious instances of this abuse of power can be seen in the massive amount of people who have been banned or otherwise censored on Back Talk, the band's official forum. Further evidence that this has gotten out of hand can be seen in how one of the "moderators" of that forum, Journeycat, would actually take it upon herself to order the owner of a private tribute website to remove an editorial with which she disagreed (see "Letter to the Editor", by Journeycat, September 7, 2002). The recent Op/Ed by TowandaRG (September 13, 2002) has served to shed even more light on some of the more dastardly doings of lower management.

In order to solve this problem, we must first identify it, get to the root of it. We know that power, to whatever degree it is possessed, is a corrupting influence. Some handle its temptations better than others--and that is all the more reason for those who dole out the power to be extra careful in choosing its recipients. In selecting "moderators" from among the fan base, management elevated certain fans into positions of power over other fans, thereby creating a fan hierarchy. And by endorsing Back Talk as the official band forum, they have explicitly acknowledged that hierarchy. No fan loves the music of Journey any more than any other fan; no fan should get any special privileges not available to other fans.

Given that it is the Back Talk forum--and its explicit endorsement as the official band forum--which has created this hierarchy among Journey fans, we must now ask the purpose of having an official band forum is in the first place. Why is there a Back Talk? Well, there are two reasons. The first is to provide a band-sanctioned home for the fans, thereby maintaining goodwill for the band among the fan base. This was especially important after the virtual defection of a large portion of the fan base over the replacement of Steve Perry. The second reason for the existence of an official forum is to provide a sounding board for the band members and their creativity. The official forum aids the band members when it comes to the opinion of the fan base on any number of subjects pertaining to the future direction of the band. It helps the band members know what they've done right--or wrong--so that they can improve upon their current level of creativity.

In attempting to satisfy its first duty, to provide a welcome home for the fan base, Back Talk has a muddled record. Admittedly, the existence of multiple moderators is a response to the forum's initial failure in this capacity. The former webmaster of Journeytheband.Com, Mike Sorrentino (a.k.a. "Skylord") obviously had his hands full when it came to building the official band website and moderating the two forums that then existed--the General Forum and "Ask Journey." The incessant fighting over the lead singer debate (and other less-remembered battles) was more than any one person could handle, so the decision to increase the amount of moderators seemed logical, in order to help provide a welcome home for Journey fans. Let's face it, as the posted Back Talk rules suggest, constant bashing of fellow Journey fans or band members is uncalled for. But then the newly empowered "moderators" began to go too far. Persons were banned not for repeatedly bashing others, but for refusing to change their opinions. Before long, persons started to get banned for questioning the motivations of the "moderators." "Bashing" became synonymous with "criticizing." In attempting to bring Back Talk back from one extreme--unmonitored strife--the "moderators" went too far in the opposite direction--censorship and tyranny. As a result, a large percentage of the Journey fan base, feeling unwelcome, abandoned Back Talk for other existing forums--and some even started forums of their own.

And how has Back Talk satisfied its second duty--providing a sounding board for the band members to consult on the feelings of the fan base for their current level of creativity? On that score, Back Talk's record is abysmal. There are many Journey fans--even fans of Steve Augeri--who would like to provide the band with constructive criticism on their latest release, Red 13. There are also many fans that would like to provide constructive criticism on the operation and management of the "Under the Radar" tour. Unfortunately they have not been allowed to voice their criticism, for whenever they have made any such attempts the "moderators" have shut down their threads and deleted their posts. Frankly, "moderators" have even been known to edit the posts of others, when they have uncovered content not to their liking. In this environment, Journey fans are not free to critique the creativity of the band. And without being able to depend on such constructive criticism, the band, surrounded by "yes men" and others who keep their jobs by making the band feel good about themselves and their products, will fail to rise above their current invisibility. The band may have decided to call this tour "Under the Radar" of their own volition. But if the forum continues to censor constructive criticism, they may never get back out above the "radar" of the music industry again.

Now then, how do we solve this problem? As Victor Hugo, the great nineteenth-century French author said, "Tear down this rickety old system...and reconstruct it." Back Talk has failed to meet its dual obligation, and--through the actions of the fan hierarchy it has created--it has served to further divide the Journey fan base. For these faults it should not be maintained as the official band forum. There are in fact a multitude of forums out there that provide a welcome home for Journey fans, allow them to critique the band, and are "moderately" moderated. Many of them can be found in the "Forums" page of the PORTAL Section of Jrnydv.Com. The most popular at this time appear to be the VH1.Com Journey Forum, the MelodicRock.Com Journey Forum, and the Rock and Roll Forum, which discusses many rock acts but was started by Journey fans.

Being one of the few official band forums in the industry, Back Talk started for all the right reasons. Unfortunately, it has failed. The time has come to shut it down and end the unfair hierarchy of the privileged fans. Only then can Journey and its management move on with clean hands and the knowledge that it has done what it can to right the wrongs that have been committed in their name.

Thoughts?

Deb1 wrote:Can somebody tell us what this "towanda" thing is about? I've heard it mentioned a few times on MR?

NealIsGod wrote:Why the fuck would anyone want to post there?

ohsherrie wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:Why the fuck would anyone want to post there?

In my case, it was to remind those morons who were saying "Perry who?" and "Who needs Perry?" that there wouldn't even have been a spot for Augeri to try and fill if it hadn't been for Perry. That's the nonconforming opinion that they didn't want to hear.

NealIsGod wrote:

ohsherrie wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:Why the fuck would anyone want to post there?

In my case, it was to remind those morons who were saying "Perry who?" and "Who needs Perry?" that there wouldn't even have been a spot for Augeri to try and fill if it hadn't been for Perry. That's the nonconforming opinion that they didn't want to hear.

If someone's that dumb, why try to enlighten them? Let them wallow in their ignorance and baste in their retardation.

ohsherrie wrote:

Deb1 wrote:Can somebody tell us what this "towanda" thing is about? I've heard it mentioned a few times on MR?

From what I can remember of it, Towanda accused Allen(AlienC) of sending some kind of virus or another type of destructive program of some sort to her computer and destroying it.



My nic was banned from BT twice and then the third time my IP was banned. Before I was banned I was "spoken to" about my nonconforming opinions and also had several posts "edited" by mods.

NealIsGod wrote:

ohsherrie wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:Why the fuck would anyone want to post there?

In my case, it was to remind those morons who were saying "Perry who?" and "Who needs Perry?" that there wouldn't even have been a spot for Augeri to try and fill if it hadn't been for Perry. That's the nonconforming opinion that they didn't want to hear.

If someone's that dumb, why try to enlighten them? Let them wallow in their ignorance and baste in their retardation.

Deb1 wrote:

ohsherrie wrote:

Deb1 wrote:Can somebody tell us what this "towanda" thing is about? I've heard it mentioned a few times on MR?

From what I can remember of it, Towanda accused Allen(AlienC) of sending some kind of virus or another type of destructive program of some sort to her computer and destroying it.



My nic was banned from BT twice and then the third time my IP was banned. Before I was banned I was "spoken to" about my nonconforming opinions and also had several posts "edited" by mods.

So Towanda is somebody that used to post here and BT?

I only posted at BT for a short time. Every time I posted anything to do with Perry in a good light (nothing at all about SA), Rich seemed to come around like a little reporter following ya around with "ya, but"........."ya, but". Like he had to validate SA after every post, got tired of it. Well, found out about MR right around then too.

RockinDeano wrote:Cj is still on my shitlist.

Liam wrote:Dear fuckin' God...do you just lurk until Deano posts??