MR

again from my fave bob lefsetz

Lefsetz has always tracked tour grosses . This is a rather lengthy article so I have only brought the Journey
mention here.

To read the entire article go to www.lefsetz.com

Def Leppard, Styx, Foreigner


Saturday 6/30/07
First Midwest Bank Amphitheatre, Tinley Park, IL
Gross: $614,249
15,848/28,534 (55.5%)
Ticket prices: $264.00/$23.50

This is a fuck of a lot of money. A lot of people.

But how many years in a row can Def Leppard go out? Even farmers let their fields lie fallow. By time they're through overcharging to see these one time poster boys summer after summer NO ONE will want to see them, not for the better
part of a DECADE! Like Fleetwood Mac. Who, ironically, share the same manager.

Live Nation needs to fill their buildings. Howard Kaufman wants to get paid. Maybe Def Leppard does too.

But even JOURNEY took the summer off.

What's that expression, leave them wanting more? Making yourself unavailable makes you DESIRABLE?

Def Leppard is breaking every rule. They're entitled. But do you want to do the same?

Bob Dylan's out constantly. But you never know what to expect. And, he might die any minute, and you want to be able to say you've seen him.

But there's nothing new about the Def Leppard show.

And isn't it creepy it's not the complete Styx, and Foreigner is sans its vocalist. Doesn't anybody get the memo?

Or maybe people just want to remember their youth.

But this is not as strong a package as last year's with Journey.

Journey are now the superstars, Def Leppard are not.

And last year it was the FAKE Journey, two different lead singers.

If the original Journey got back together, they could sell out stadiums. Oh, they wouldn't have the cred of the Police, but they've got the FANS!

I'm not one of them. But it might be exciting just to be part of it, to be at the gig to hear the ROAR!

I guess at one time I thought Def Leppard was more than pretty faces. Those two records, "Pyromania" and "Hysteria", are eighties classics. Then again, those are the ones done with Mutt Lange. Just like AC/DC's legendary records were made with the same producer. The more the band's on the road, grinding it out for a buck, the more I'm disillusioned. Maybe Mutt was the true star.

Oh, everybody's got to eat. But I can't tell you how many times I've stood alone in the dark, as "Hysteria" poured out of the stereo, making me feel good, in times when I felt down and at others when I was already elated!

This is our music. The machine thinks it's all grist for the mill. But it's not to us.

Protect your legacy judiciously.

Know that you can alienate a fan just like that.

Casual customers will fill the seats for a while, but when the fans abandon you, you're on your way to extinction.

Lefsetz may not be a fan (altho in another article he admitted to humming Journey tunes while he was driving) -
but he seems to have been paying attention.

Cat

I was there. Foreigner dominated the show. Def Leppard was pretty good and Styx wasn't bad either. Great bill, great show and a great time. The crowd was very into each act.

Saint John wrote:I was there. Foreigner dominated the show. Def Leppard was pretty good and Styx wasn't bad either. Great bill, great show and a great time. The crowd was very into each act.

It seems a little sad that it was such a great show, with three great bands - however only 55.5% of the seats were filled.

Cat

CatEyes wrote:

Saint John wrote:I was there. Foreigner dominated the show. Def Leppard was pretty good and Styx wasn't bad either. Great bill, great show and a great time. The crowd was very into each act.

It seems a little sad that it was such a great show, with three great bands - however only 55.5% of the seats were filled.

Cat

ZERO promotion which is VERY odd for Chicago and rather expensive ticket prices had a LOT to do with only 16,000 people...which isn't THAT bad actually.

I just read that in my e-mail as well. And I've said before I'm a DL fan, so take that into account.

I was one of the fans that hoped they DIDN'T tour this year. Yes, that's right- and for the same reasons ( + a few others) that Bob states in his article. We DL fans had gotten used to a tour every 3-4 years, and I was ok with that. But they have toured 4 times in the past 5 years!!!??? And the fact that they are *supposed to be* working on a new album. I had hoped that they would sit this summer out. Or at least tour elsewhere ( Japan, UK, Europe, etc. ) We've had our share of tours, time to give it a rest. So I can't argue with Mr. Lefsetz's take on that score. ( and just for the record- I'm not going to their show down here in Fl. Too far away, and not enough monies. )

But as for the Journey part of the article, there are a few of his points that just don't sit right ( to me at least). Does he know about the fact that Journey can't tour because they don't have a lead singer?????

Does he know that SP will not ( as he's stated SEVERAL times!) re-join these guys to tour????

Yes, yes- I know that IF SP decided to come out of retirement- the tour would be amazing. But since that's not going to happen.........

Just some thoughts I had when I read this. Interesting article though. He's always a good read!

Saint John wrote:I was there. Foreigner dominated the show.

Based on the live album they have out now, Mick Jones has CLEARLY dialed up his game a few notches with the advent of the new lineup. His guitar rocks harder than ever now.

Now if they could just fix shit w/ Grammatico.


PS: Top Tix price for this tour is $264? Somebody should be in the slammer for the gouging that has been going on by EVERYBODY since the Stones hit the road in fall 2005.

Saint John wrote:I was there. Foreigner dominated the show. Def Leppard was pretty good and Styx wasn't bad either. Great bill, great show and a great time. The crowd was very into each act.

Of course Foreigner dominated, Kelly Hansen was on vox....someone who can actually sing. Elliott hasn't had a live voice in over 10 years.

Red13JoePa wrote:

Saint John wrote:I was there. Foreigner dominated the show.

Based on the live album they have out now, Mick Jones has CLEARLY dialed up his game a few notches with the advent of the new lineup. His guitar rocks harder than ever now.

I've seen Foreigner live twice and have their live DVD "Live at Deer Creek" and I've always gotten the impression that Foreigner's live sound was missing something. I don't know if they've sounded too thin or what but I just haven't been impressed with them. Perhaps the rocking harder bit is what was missing.

Now if they could just fix shit w/ Grammatico.

Gramm sounded horrible from the clips I heard on his web site. Sadly, he just hasn't been the same since the surgery to remove the brain tumor. I don't blame the guy but if he still sounds like that, he should either hang it up or do some new material that is written in a much lower key. I hate to say this, because he's right up there with Perry in my book.

I saw Foreigner & Styx last year & it was a fantabulous show. Blue Oyster Cult opened for them. There's nothing I can say other than that they sucked. Their bass player was worth seeing. The rest of the show, I could have done w/out. I've seen Styx at least 5 times in the last 5 years (interesting since I'm not a HUGE Styx fan). I go b/c they really put on a GREAT live show. It's a blast. Foreigner w/Kelly was more than I'd ever hoped for. He has a great voice, he's charismatic, sexy & very much alive. He's all over the stage, up on the speakers, running thru the crowd. He has a great stage presence. Mick is on frigging fire. He looks like a grandpa up there but boy, can he ever play. All the rest of the band were so into what they were doing, it was just fun to watch. It's contagious. Foreigner really got the crowd going & by the time Styx came out, everyone was revved up. It made it the BEST Styx show ever.

I can't imagine seeing Foreigner/Styx/Def Leppard. I was bored at the DL part of the shows w/Journey last year. I like their music, but there was just something missing in their live performance.

conversationpc wrote:Gramm sounded horrible from the clips I heard on his web site. Sadly, he just hasn't been the same since the surgery to remove the brain tumor. I don't blame the guy but if he still sounds like that, he should either hang it up or do some new material that is written in a much lower key. I hate to say this, because he's right up there with Perry in my book.

I know he doesn't sound like '84 but I've made total peace with that and I'm like the perry fans who don't mind WHAT he sounds like now, and just want him to be back in Journey.

I'm that way w/ Frnr/Gramm

Red13JoePa wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Gramm sounded horrible from the clips I heard on his web site. Sadly, he just hasn't been the same since the surgery to remove the brain tumor. I don't blame the guy but if he still sounds like that, he should either hang it up or do some new material that is written in a much lower key. I hate to say this, because he's right up there with Perry in my book.

I know he doesn't sound like '84 but I've made total peace with that and I'm like the perry fans who don't mind WHAT he sounds like now, and just want him to be back in Journey.

I'm that way w/ Frnr/Gramm

I've buried Foreigner and just enjoy what was.

Red13JoePa wrote:I know he doesn't sound like '84 but I've made total peace with that and I'm like the perry fans who don't mind WHAT he sounds like now, and just want him to be back in Journey.

I'm that way w/ Frnr/Gramm

While I agree, it would be total magic to hear Gramm up there again, just wondering, have u seen them w/Kelly? I wasn't sure I could dig it, but I did, I totally did.

Nope, haven't seen them since 02 but I have the Extended Version live record and play it often.

Still want even a diminished Gramm back, though.

Red13JoePa wrote:Nope, haven't seen them since 02 but I have the Extended Version live record and play it often.

Still want even a diminished Gramm back, though.

Kelly is worth seeing live. There is an energy & charisma about him that I don't think u can capture by just hearing it. Also just the way the whole band are really digging what they're doing, the way they look at one another, they way they interact, well u wouldn't hear that just by listening. If u get a chance, go see them.

It's kind of like Jeff w/Journey. Sure, we all wish it was Perry, but if we can't have him, Jeff was a fantastic frontman. Kelly is like that w/Foreigner.

JR (Susie) wrote:[ Kelly is worth seeing live. There is an energy & charisma about him that I don't think u can capture by just hearing it.

Love going to concerts but I don't buy into the intangible can't appreciate the frontman unless your THERE theory.

A live soundboard recording affords way more ability to appraise that kind of stuff than sitting in a loud setting. Charisma and energy take FAR back seats to vocal performance in my eyes.

Red13JoePa wrote:A live soundboard recording affords way more ability to appraise that kind of stuff than sitting in a loud setting. Charisma and energy take FAR back seats to vocal performance in my eyes.

Amen, bro.

conversationpc wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:A live soundboard recording affords way more ability to appraise that kind of stuff than sitting in a loud setting. Charisma and energy take FAR back seats to vocal performance in my eyes.

Amen, bro.

Well, the older these singers get, the more slack the fans need to cut them in the live setting. Holding a 50 year old singer to the standards he met when he was 25 or 30 is ridiculous.

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:A live soundboard recording affords way more ability to appraise that kind of stuff than sitting in a loud setting. Charisma and energy take FAR back seats to vocal performance in my eyes.

Amen, bro.

Well, the older these singers get, the more slack the fans need to cut them in the live setting. Holding a 50 year old singer to the standards he met when he was 25 or 30 is ridiculous.

Actually, he's 57.

Red13JoePa wrote: Love going to concerts but I don't buy into the intangible can't appreciate the frontman unless your THERE theory.

A live soundboard recording affords way more ability to appraise that kind of stuff than sitting in a loud setting. Charisma and energy take FAR back seats to vocal performance in my eyes.

I'm not saying u can't appreciate the frontman unless ur there, Joe. I just think part of a concert is watching the band & u lose that aspect when u listen to a recording.

I can agree with that, but what you lose in visuals (if I cared I'd BE there) and energy and charisma (ZERO import to me at all even if that WEREN'T 100% subjective) you gain 10 fold in sound. I don't care what singers look like, how they move, what they wear, what their haircut is, what they do with the crowd. I want to hear them sing.

Red13JoePa wrote:I can agree with that, but what you lose in visuals (if I cared I'd BE there) and energy and charisma (ZERO import to me at all even if that WEREN'T 100% subjective) you gain 10 fold in sound. I don't care what singers look like, how they move, what they wear, what their haircut is, what they do with the crowd. I want to hear them sing.

Fair enough Joe. I love concerts for the experience of hearing music live & seeing the performance. I like hanging w/friends, chugging beers, singing along, dancing. The whole thing is why I go. I didnt see these bands perform in their heyday as I wasn't old enough. By the time I was old enough, I was on the road doing my own thing & rarely able to catch a performance. I guess I'm living my youth now when I go to shows.

A bit off topic, but did anyone realize that Poison and Cinderella AVERAGED 20,000+ fans last year on their tour? Tell me a Perry fronted Journey couldn't come close to doubling that? Steve, it's time...quit fucking around. Poison and RATT were in Chicago last night, a TUESDAY night mind you, and they had nearly 15,000. The show had ZERO promotion. I didn't even know about it.

Saint John wrote:A bit off topic, but did anyone realize that Poison and Cinderella AVERAGED 20,000+ fans last year on their tour? Tell me a Perry fronted Journey couldn't come close to doubling that? Steve, it's time...quit fucking around. Poison and RATT were in Chicago last night, a TUESDAY night mind you, and they had nearly 15,000. The show had ZERO promotion. I didn't even know about it.

How old are the average Poison/Cinderella fans now? Mid-30s? Are their fans really diehard?

Yeah it's time for Perry, but not w/Journey. Too much water under the bridge.

JR (Susie) wrote:

Saint John wrote:A bit off topic, but did anyone realize that Poison and Cinderella AVERAGED 20,000+ fans last year on their tour? Tell me a Perry fronted Journey couldn't come close to doubling that? Steve, it's time...quit fucking around. Poison and RATT were in Chicago last night, a TUESDAY night mind you, and they had nearly 15,000. The show had ZERO promotion. I didn't even know about it.

How old are the average Poison/Cinderella fans now? Mid-30s? Are their fans really diehard?

Yeah it's time for Perry, but not w/Journey. Too much water under the bridge.

They could build a new one with the money and sheer elation that tour would bring. I'm pretty handy with tools.

conversationpc wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:A live soundboard recording affords way more ability to appraise that kind of stuff than sitting in a loud setting. Charisma and energy take FAR back seats to vocal performance in my eyes.

Amen, bro.

Well, the older these singers get, the more slack the fans need to cut them in the live setting. Holding a 50 year old singer to the standards he met when he was 25 or 30 is ridiculous.

Actually, he's 57.

Actually, he's 58.

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:A live soundboard recording affords way more ability to appraise that kind of stuff than sitting in a loud setting. Charisma and energy take FAR back seats to vocal performance in my eyes.

Amen, bro.

Well, the older these singers get, the more slack the fans need to cut them in the live setting. Holding a 50 year old singer to the standards he met when he was 25 or 30 is ridiculous.

Actually, he's 57.

Actually, he's 58.

He was born May 2nd, 1950 = 57

conversationpc wrote:

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:A live soundboard recording affords way more ability to appraise that kind of stuff than sitting in a loud setting. Charisma and energy take FAR back seats to vocal performance in my eyes.

Amen, bro.

Well, the older these singers get, the more slack the fans need to cut them in the live setting. Holding a 50 year old singer to the standards he met when he was 25 or 30 is ridiculous.

Actually, he's 57.

Actually, he's 58.

He was born May 2nd, 1950 = 57

U guys are getting confused. One's talking about Lou Gramm. The other about Steve Perry.

Saint John wrote:I was there. Foreigner dominated the show. Def Leppard was pretty good and Styx wasn't bad either. Great bill, great show and a great time. The crowd was very into each act.

I was there, too, and it was a very good show from all three bands. I did find it interesting that Def Leppard / Journey had more fans at this venue last year (19,000) on a Wednesday night. I've heard a lot of people thinking that Def Leppard alone could attract the same number of people, but it truly is the package deal that is most attractive to fans.[/i]

JR (Susie) wrote:
U guys are getting confused. One's talking about Lou Gramm. The other about Steve Perry.

Trying for clarity, Perry's dob is 01/22/1949. At this time he is 58 yrs old.

You are on your own with Gramm

Cat

CatEyes wrote:

JR (Susie) wrote:
U guys are getting confused. One's talking about Lou Gramm. The other about Steve Perry.

Trying for clarity, Perry's dob is 01/22/1949. At this time he is 58 yrs old.

You are on your own with Gramm

Cat

At the time, we were discussing Gramm. Therefore I was correct.

Neener neener...