MR

Ok, we've done ROR versus TBF AND Escape versus Frontiers.

How about Evolution versus Departure? <<<GollyWally beating a dead horse>>>

VERY different disks IMO. I personally like Evolution better--one of my all-time favorites.
The album has an almost astral, or dreamlike, quality to it that I really like. Speaking of which, I love Daydream on Evolution. Very cool tune. Also like Sweet & Simple, When You're Alone it Ain't Easy and Just the Same Way.

OK...We're getting into Head2Head territory now but I'm going to answer anyway...

Evolution...I've never cared as much for Departure, though I would put it ahead of either ROR or TBF.

Let's be honest...the two records sound almost identical...if you mixed the two albums up on an iPod shuffle it would sound like a seamless playlist...

GollyWally wrote:Ok, we've done ROR versus TBF AND Escape versus Frontiers.

How about Evolution versus Departure? <<<GollyWally beating a dead horse>>>

VERY different disks IMO. I personally like Evolution better--one of my all-time favorites.
The album has an almost astral, or dreamlike, quality to it that I really like. Speaking of which, I love Daydream on Evolution. Very cool tune. Also like Sweet & Simple, When You're Alone it Ain't Easy and Just the Same Way.

Evolution more than Departure, but both of them more than ROR and TBF. My order of the Perry era:

Escape
Frontiers
Evolution
Departure
Captured
Infinity
ROR
TBF

Matthew wrote:Let's be honest...the two records sound almost identical...if you mixed the two albums up on an iPod shuffle it would sound like a seamless playlist...

Nah...The production on "Departure" seems more "live" than does "Evolution". The rockers on "Departure" also sound different, in my opinion.

Matthew wrote:Let's be honest...the two records sound almost identical...if you mixed the two albums up on an iPod shuffle it would sound like a seamless playlist...

That's an interesting experiement, your iPod idea. You've got me thinking now whether they sound as different as I've always thought they did! Walks Like a Lady, People and Places, Someday Soon, I'm Cryin...I always experienced those tunes differently. They put me in a different place than the Evolution songs, but I'm a listener only, not a musciain, so I know I'm not picking up on similarities that more adroit listeners would

The differences in the sound of the band from Infinity to Evolution to Departure is not drastic. Then came E5C4P3, which was much more polished. I would have liked another record with that sound. But then they took a left turn with Frontiers, which did work. But then they became a pure pop outfit with ROR.

conversationpc wrote:

Matthew wrote:Let's be honest...the two records sound almost identical...if you mixed the two albums up on an iPod shuffle it would sound like a seamless playlist...

Nah...The production on "Departure" seems more "live" than does "Evolution". The rockers on "Departure" also sound different, in my opinion.

Yes - and maybe "Departure" is a bit more 'blues rock' than Evolution as well. But we're talking about minor nuances here. Put Escape and Frontiers and ROR on a playlist together and it wouldn't sound coherant at all. The differences between those three albums are huge in comparison - mainly because Journey were evolving at a more rapid and dramatic rate than they were on the first three Perry albums which all have a basic sameyness about them. I've always totally understood why Rolie felt he could contribute no more to the band after Departure. The band were stuck in a tight formula they needed to shake up a bit....

NealIsGod wrote:The differences in the sound of the band from Infinity to Evolution to Departure is not drastic. Then came E5C4P3, which was much more polished. I would have liked another record with that sound. But then they took a left turn with Frontiers, which did work. But then they became a pure pop outfit with ROR.

I agree 100% with your analysis. ROR was WAY too influenced by Perry's solo success. Another Mike Stone/Kevin Elson produced record would have been much better than ROR.

Matthew wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Matthew wrote:Let's be honest...the two records sound almost identical...if you mixed the two albums up on an iPod shuffle it would sound like a seamless playlist...

Nah...The production on "Departure" seems more "live" than does "Evolution". The rockers on "Departure" also sound different, in my opinion.

Yes - and maybe "Departure" is a bit more 'blues rock' than Evolution as well. But we're talking about minor nuances here. Put Escape and Frontiers and ROR on a playlist together and it wouldn't sound coherant at all. The differences between those three albums are huge in comparison - mainly because Journey were evolving at a more rapid and dramatic rate than they were on the first three Perry albums which all have a basic sameyness about them. I've always totally understood why Rolie felt he could contribute no more to the band after Departure. The band were stuck in a tight formula they needed to shake up a bit....

Infinity and Evolution sound pretty much the same. Departure sounds totally different.

conversationpc wrote:

Matthew wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Matthew wrote:Let's be honest...the two records sound almost identical...if you mixed the two albums up on an iPod shuffle it would sound like a seamless playlist...

Nah...The production on "Departure" seems more "live" than does "Evolution". The rockers on "Departure" also sound different, in my opinion.

Yes - and maybe "Departure" is a bit more 'blues rock' than Evolution as well. But we're talking about minor nuances here. Put Escape and Frontiers and ROR on a playlist together and it wouldn't sound coherant at all. The differences between those three albums are huge in comparison - mainly because Journey were evolving at a more rapid and dramatic rate than they were on the first three Perry albums which all have a basic sameyness about them. I've always totally understood why Rolie felt he could contribute no more to the band after Departure. The band were stuck in a tight formula they needed to shake up a bit....

Infinity and Evolution sound pretty much the same. Departure sounds totally different.

No. It doesn't, Dave. You're lying.

Matthew wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Matthew wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Matthew wrote:Let's be honest...the two records sound almost identical...if you mixed the two albums up on an iPod shuffle it would sound like a seamless playlist...

Nah...The production on "Departure" seems more "live" than does "Evolution". The rockers on "Departure" also sound different, in my opinion.

Yes - and maybe "Departure" is a bit more 'blues rock' than Evolution as well. But we're talking about minor nuances here. Put Escape and Frontiers and ROR on a playlist together and it wouldn't sound coherant at all. The differences between those three albums are huge in comparison - mainly because Journey were evolving at a more rapid and dramatic rate than they were on the first three Perry albums which all have a basic sameyness about them. I've always totally understood why Rolie felt he could contribute no more to the band after Departure. The band were stuck in a tight formula they needed to shake up a bit....

Infinity and Evolution sound pretty much the same. Departure sounds totally different.

No. It doesn't, Dave. You're lying.

How could I be lying when it is my opinion? Makes no sense.

conversationpc wrote:
How could I be lying when it is my opinion? Makes no sense.

You know I'm right about this and that Departure is by no means "totally different" to the previous two. Yet your pride prevents you from admitting this...

Well, that's my theory anyway.

Matthew wrote:

conversationpc wrote:
How could I be lying when it is my opinion? Makes no sense.

You know I'm right about this and that Departure is by no means "totally different" to the previous two. Yet your pride prevents you from admitting this...

Well, that's my theory anyway.

I have no pride invested in my opinion on what those first three Perry-era albums sound like. To me, the first two sound alike and Departure doesn't. Simple as that.

conversationpc wrote:

Matthew wrote:

conversationpc wrote:
How could I be lying when it is my opinion? Makes no sense.

You know I'm right about this and that Departure is by no means "totally different" to the previous two. Yet your pride prevents you from admitting this...

Well, that's my theory anyway.

I have no pride invested in my opinion on what those first three Perry-era albums sound like. To me, the first two sound alike and Departure doesn't. Simple as that.

Okay Dave. Fair enough. But will you at least accept that the differences between the later albums are greater than the differences between Evolution and Departure?

Matthew wrote:Okay Dave. Fair enough. But will you at least accept that the differences between the later albums are greater than the differences between Evolution and Departure?

I don't have a problem with that.

Departure was the album that got me into Journey, but I would have to say Evolution (probably my all time fav).

Oh great, another head to head thread!

Put nowhere NEAR the tought into this as I did the Escape Frontiers one.


It's Departure for me by a length. Though I just relistened to Evolution fully yesterday in head phones and I confess I like it a lot more right now than I did on Saturday.

Evolution- A lot of "samey" sounding pop-rockers. Very tight, fun, good pop-rockers though. "Daydream," "Just the Same Way," and "Lady Luck" are highlights for me.

Departure- More experimental, but less flow, very much all over the place. HOWEVER, very good exploration of some of their old progressive style combined with their advancement to straight-forward polished rock. Some of the most unique songs in the Journey catalogue here: "Precious Time," "Someday Soon," "People and Places." LOVE those three.

I like Departure a bit better, but not a whole lot. Both albums are strong, true Journey albums. I prefer Infinity to both of these though. Journey really hits their stride with Escape and Frontiers. Then like Nig said, they went pop after that. Which is really surprising as they weathered the Disco age and did their own thing and still became popular, only to later on find themselves falling into the mainstream. With each album came more ballads and less rockers. In my opinion they didn't stay true to their roots.

conversationpc wrote:

Matthew wrote:Let's be honest...the two records sound almost identical...if you mixed the two albums up on an iPod shuffle it would sound like a seamless playlist...

Nah...The production on "Departure" seems more "live" than does "Evolution". The rockers on "Departure" also sound different, in my opinion.

I've always wished Roy Thomas Baker would have produced "Departure". Great songs, but crappy production!

EVOLUTION

GollyWally wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:The differences in the sound of the band from Infinity to Evolution to Departure is not drastic. Then came E5C4P3, which was much more polished. I would have liked another record with that sound. But then they took a left turn with Frontiers, which did work. But then they became a pure pop outfit with ROR.

I agree 100% with your analysis. ROR was WAY too influenced by Perry's solo success. Another Mike Stone/Kevin Elson produced record would have been much better than ROR.

I think you may have hit it here with the differences between the albums. Each one of the progressions, with the exception of Escape to Frontiers, involved a change in band personnel or producer:

Infinity - Added Perry, produced by Roy Thomas Baker
Evolution - added Smith, produced by RTB
Departure - produced by Geoff Workman/Elson
Escape - added Cain, Stone/Elson
Frontiers - same lineup, same producer
ROR - dropped Valory and Smith, produced by Perry
TBF - Escape/Frontiers lineup, produced by Kevin Shirley

Only between Escape and Frontiers was the lineup and producer the same. Perhaps one of the causes of the success of those two compared to everything else.

tj wrote:Infinity - Added Perry, produced by Roy Thomas Baker
Evolution - added Smith, produced by RTB
Departure - produced by Geoff Workman/Elson

Besides the "live" sounding production of "Departure", that's another reason why I don't think it sounds anythingn like either "Infinity" or "Evolution". I've always loved Baker's production of the Queen albums and his mark is evident on those two Journey releases.

Take that, Matthew.

evolution has some very good songs.too late and sweet and simple are great.this album introduced steve smith as the drummer of journey.roy thomas baker superb production.the last instrumental journey did with the great majestic.the first top twenty hit in 'lovin touchin' squeezin' although radio does play it to death.great rollie vocals on 'just the same way' which is also another good one.city of angels and do you recall are underrated gems.

departure is probably my least favorite perry release.i'm cryin plus homemade love get skipped on my player.i never really cared for walks like a lady.i tend to like people and places and precious time the most out of anything on the album.

I'm going with Evolution as the better of the two because while I love Departure, that material was so much better live than it is on the album. The album versions when compared to the live tracks seem a little boring. Every song on Departure that was ever played live was 100 times better on the stage. They should have been recorded with the spin that was later put on them.

bluejeangirl76 wrote:I'm going with Evolution as the better of the two because while I love Departure, that material was so much better live than it is on the album. The album versions when compared to the live tracks seem a little boring. Every song on Departure that was ever played live was 100 times better on the stage. They should have been recorded with the spin that was later put on them.

That is very true about Departure.

Rick wrote:

bluejeangirl76 wrote:I'm going with Evolution as the better of the two because while I love Departure, that material was so much better live than it is on the album. The album versions when compared to the live tracks seem a little boring. Every song on Departure that was ever played live was 100 times better on the stage. They should have been recorded with the spin that was later put on them.

That is very true about Departure.

Now that you mention it, I think you're right. "Walks Like a Lady", in particular, is light years better live than it is on the album.

conversationpc wrote:Now that you mention it, I think you're right. "Walks Like a Lady", in particular, is light years better live than it is on the album.

Nope. Too long live. I like the non-shredding straight up blues restraint shown on the Departure studio version.

Admittedly though the Captured version (and the Ross versions from the Greek and Irvine) are delicious guilty orgies of extended blues jamouts.