MR

Welcome to the summer/fall version of the New England Invitational. Don't forget your parting gifts on the way out.....

Socratic Methodist wrote:Welcome to the summer/fall version of the New England Invitational. Don't forget your parting gifts on the way out.....

I don't see why they want Gagne unless they're planning on him replacing Papelbon as the closer next year. They already have the best bullpen in the game this year.

I don't know about Jermaine Dye, either. Drew hasn't been doing much but he's been getting slowly better.

conversationpc wrote:

Socratic Methodist wrote:Welcome to the summer/fall version of the New England Invitational. Don't forget your parting gifts on the way out.....

I don't see why they want Gagne unless they're planning on him replacing Papelbon as the closer next year. They already have the best bullpen in the game this year.

I don't know about Jermaine Dye, either. Drew hasn't been doing much but he's been getting slowly better.

Dye will play against leftys, as he is a righty, and Drew can't hit southpaws.....

Gagne will have to agree to setup Paps......

Socratic Methodist wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Socratic Methodist wrote:Welcome to the summer/fall version of the New England Invitational. Don't forget your parting gifts on the way out.....

I don't see why they want Gagne unless they're planning on him replacing Papelbon as the closer next year. They already have the best bullpen in the game this year.

I don't know about Jermaine Dye, either. Drew hasn't been doing much but he's been getting slowly better.

Dye will play against leftys, as he is a righty, and Drew can't hit southpaws.....

Gagne will have to agree to setup Paps......

Yeah...It will strengthen an already great bullpen and Gagne can close if Papelbon can't go, for some reason.

No one cares about Boston, guys.

Red13JoePa wrote:No one cares about Boston, guys.

Riiiiight......Best pitching staff in MLB, but no one cares about them. Great logic.

Red13JoePa wrote:No one cares about Boston, guys.

...and even less care about the Phillies.

Next phillies thread I subject other phans to will be the first.

But the Red Sox fans think EVERY body's world revolves around that team.

Red13JoePa wrote:Next phillies thread I subject other phans to will be the first.

But the Red Sox fans think EVERY body's world revolves around that team.

It doesn't?

Anyway, compared to other sports teams mentioned on here, the Red Sox have been brought up relatively few times. For that matter, I don't think I've ever started a thread on them.

Well, generally speaking not just here.

Admit it.

Bosox fans are the loons of baseball fandom.

Red13JoePa wrote:Well, generally speaking not just here.

Admit it.

Bosox fans are the loons of baseball fandom.

I don't interact with a lot of other Sox fans and have only ever gone to two of their games (@ the old Tiger stadium in Detroit in the late 90s and in Chicago against the White Sox a couple of years later), so I haven't had much experience with them to even form an opinion.

I will say that, at least before winning the WS, the fans were unnecessarily critical of EVERY move the team made and seemed to lose faith rather easily when they went on a losing streak.

I've always thought Phillies fans were unnecessarily harsh on their own players. I believe even the great Mike Schmidt was mercilessly booed towards the end of his career. I'm all for booing players who are not giving their all on the field but cut the guys some slack otherwise. If they suck and it's not due to lack of trying, then the manager needs to yank their ass out of the game. Is that a fair criticism?

conversationpc wrote:I've always thought Phillies fans were unnecessarily harsh on their own players. I believe even the great Mike Schmidt was mercilessly booed towards the end of his career. I'm all for booing players who are not giving their all on the field but cut the guys some slack otherwise. If they suck and it's not due to lack of trying, then the manager needs to yank their ass out of the game. Is that a fair criticism?

Schmidt was booed early in his career...with just cause. He was an abject failure in three consecutive NLCS . He was actually embraced by the fans at the end of his career. Phillies fans probably are a little harsh, but one World Series victory in 125 years might harden you too.

conversationpc wrote:

Socratic Methodist wrote:Welcome to the summer/fall version of the New England Invitational. Don't forget your parting gifts on the way out.....

I don't see why they want Gagne unless they're planning on him replacing Papelbon as the closer next year. They already have the best bullpen in the game this year.

A- They want Gagne for two reasons. 1, to shorten the game. He will come in at the 7th or 8th then hand it off to Papelbon; and 2, so the the Yankees couldn't get him.

B- Seattle has the best bullpen in the game and the best closer in JJ Putz.

RockinDeano wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Socratic Methodist wrote:Welcome to the summer/fall version of the New England Invitational. Don't forget your parting gifts on the way out.....

I don't see why they want Gagne unless they're planning on him replacing Papelbon as the closer next year. They already have the best bullpen in the game this year.

A- They want Gagne for two reasons. 1, to shorten the game. He will come in at the 7th or 8th then hand it off to Papelbon; and 2, so the the Yankees couldn't get him.

B- Seattle has the best bullpen in the game and the best closer in JJ Putz.

Putz is awesome.

Moose wrote:Schmidt was booed early in his career...with just cause. He was an abject failure in three consecutive NLCS . He was actually embraced by the fans at the end of his career. Phillies fans probably are a little harsh, but one World Series victory in 125 years might harden you too.

Just cause? If he was busting his ass, that's all you can ask of a player. I can see booing a guy because he is a slacker, like Barry Bonds. However, if a guy is putting forth the effort, then cut him a break.

Remember that JP wasn't supposed to be the closer, but he stepped up. It makes sense if JP wants to or will be transitioned to the starting rotation next year.

As a lifelong Phillies fan (grew up in Philly, but now live in Boston ironically enough), 1983 was bad but 1993 was painful. 1980 was great, though.

conversationpc wrote:

Moose wrote:Schmidt was booed early in his career...with just cause. He was an abject failure in three consecutive NLCS . He was actually embraced by the fans at the end of his career. Phillies fans probably are a little harsh, but one World Series victory in 125 years might harden you too.

Just cause? If he was busting his ass, that's all you can ask of a player. I can see booing a guy because he is a slacker, like Barry Bonds. However, if a guy is putting forth the effort, then cut him a break.

It was all about perception. Schmidt came off as aloof and uncaring. I will say that I never booed him. He was my favorite player. I don't think Bonds has ever been a slacker. Just an arrogant, unlikeable asshole.

Red13JoePa wrote:Well, generally speaking not just here.

Admit it.

Bosox fans are the loons of baseball fandom.

Dude, as much as I hate Boston sports, you need to give them props...at least the Sox and Pats. They flat out win, are flat out successful.

The Pats might have the best team in the NFL (again), and as much as I hate the BOSOX, they are downright tough, and do it the right way. In contrast, look to Philadelphia for how NOT to do it in sports. All their teams are decrepid shithboxes, with bad characters and fucked up fans. Seriously, is there another venue in sports that has a fuckin courtroom in the football stadium to deal with unruly fans as the game is in progress? I am as bosterous as anyone, trust me, and I have been kicked out of every venue on the west coast, but Philly fan is refuckindiculous.

1- The Eagles are a good club with a fragile chocolate snowman running the offense. He gets hurt if the wind blows too hard.
2- The Phillies are "the team to beat" according to their skipper. Anyone want to bet me that they won't win the NL East?
3- The Flyers should write off their losses as they are charity case.
4- The Sixers are thugs, and a very bad basketball club.

Boston, NY and Philly all boo if the results are poor regardless of effort, but ESPECIALLY if they sense poor effort.
Abreu. Ramirez. Beltran. We just DON'T go, "oh well yay for trying!!! "

Schmidt was booed prior to '80 in Phila but not inordinately so. It just shocks the Philly bashers that a 3-time MVP could be booed at all, but he had an extremely aloof, too-cool-for-school demeanor then on and off the field.

To his credit he worked hard to erase that in the '80s and on his HOF induction day made absolute peace with Phillies Phans.

RockinDeano wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:Well, generally speaking not just here.

Admit it.

Bosox fans are the loons of baseball fandom.

Dude, as much as I hate Boston sports,

I will give the pure boston fans props, even though they're elitist obnoxious boors.
It is this phenomenon of the psuedo red sox and pats fans who now suddenly overrun towns like philly and I just can't buy it.

RockinDeano wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Socratic Methodist wrote:Welcome to the summer/fall version of the New England Invitational. Don't forget your parting gifts on the way out.....

I don't see why they want Gagne unless they're planning on him replacing Papelbon as the closer next year. They already have the best bullpen in the game this year.

A- They want Gagne for two reasons. 1, to shorten the game. He will come in at the 7th or 8th then hand it off to Papelbon; and 2, so the the Yankees couldn't get him.

B- Seattle has the best bullpen in the game and the best closer in JJ Putz.

Point by point, in regards to the FACTS:

1) Yankees could have ALREADY had Gagne, TX wanted prospect Ian Kennedy, and Melky Cabrera - Yanks wouldn't give up Melky. So the Red Sox don't want to block NY from getting him - they weren't getting him anyway.

2) Seattle has the best CLOSER in the AL....NOT the best bullpen as a whole. Sox have the best bullpen ERA in MLB, not just the AL.


and finally, the Sox RARELY need a save. They are almost always ahead by more than 3 runs. And as long as Wake and Nacho were pitching - giving up 5 or 6 runs a game - Paps isn't really needed anyway.

It is extremely rare that a start by Beckett, Dice-K, or Schilling ever needs saving. It happens, but not very often. So amount of saves, as a stat, doesn't really impress me much.

Save pct. impresses me. And I think Putz is perfect.

Socratic Methodist wrote:

Wake and Nacho were pitching Paps isn't really needed .

Dice-K,

Another Boston annoyance.
The world doesn;t know your gay nicknames for boston players except for the most annoying, and forced-by-ESPN, nickname ever, "Dice-K."


I don't expecty ANYbody but Moose to know who I'm talking about if I say "The Round Mound Of Rebound" "Doc" "The Alien" "The Big E" "The Legion Of Doom" "Nails" "The Dude" "Head" "Dutch" "Bubba" "Lefty" "Quick Six" "The Minister Of Defense" "B&E" or "Donny 3 Chins."

Red13JoePa wrote:

Socratic Methodist wrote:

Wake and Nacho were pitching Paps isn't really needed .

Dice-K,

Another Boston annoyance.
The world doesn;t know your gay nicknames for boston players except for the most annoying, and forced-by-ESPN, nickname ever, "Dice-K."


I don't expecty ANYbody but Moose to know who I'm talking about if I say "The Round Mound Of Rebound" "Doc" "The Alien" "The Big E" "The Legion Of Doom" "Nails" "The Dude" "Head" "Dutch" "Bubba" "Lefty" "Quick Six" "The Minister Of Defense" "B&E" or "Donny 3 Chins."

Round Mound of Rebound is Charles Barkley....The others are names that have nothing to do with the Actual name of the player.

Wake is short for WAKEfield....Paps is short for PAPelbon.

Daisuke is pronounced Dice-K.....again, logic is a fascinating discipline.

I would assume, though not certain that The Legion of Doom is a hockey reference including that also-ran Flyers player - Eric Lindros.

Socratic Methodist wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:

Socratic Methodist wrote:

Wake and Nacho were pitching Paps isn't really needed .

Dice-K,

Another Boston annoyance.
The world doesn;t know your gay nicknames for boston players except for the most annoying, and forced-by-ESPN, nickname ever, "Dice-K."


I don't expecty ANYbody but Moose to know who I'm talking about if I say "The Round Mound Of Rebound" "Doc" "The Alien" "The Big E" "The Legion Of Doom" "Nails" "The Dude" "Head" "Dutch" "Bubba" "Lefty" "Quick Six" "The Minister Of Defense" "B&E" or "Donny 3 Chins."

Round Mound of Rebound is Charles Barkley....The others are names that have nothing to do with the Actual name of the player.

Wake is short for WAKEfield....Paps is short for PAPelbon.

Daisuke is pronounced Dice-K.....again, logic is a fascinating discipline.

I would assume, though not certain that The Legion of Doom is a hockey reference including that also-ran Flyers player - Eric Lindros.

Doc is Doctor J, Julius Erving. And the minister of defense is Reggie White. That's all I got

"Lefty" is Steve Carlton.

Socratic Methodist wrote:Wake is short for WAKEfield....Paps is short for PAPelbon.

.again, logic is a fascinating discipline.

Well maybe I misstated what I meant. I'm not interested in referring to or hearing bosox fans refer to their players by their pet nicknames.

and Julius Irving is known as 'Doctor J', not 'Doc'.

I've heard of Doc Gooden, and Doc Rivers - not Doc J.

Red13JoePa wrote:

Socratic Methodist wrote:Wake is short for WAKEfield....Paps is short for PAPelbon.

.again, logic is a fascinating discipline.

Well maybe I misstated what I meant. I'm not interested in referring to or hearing bosox fans refer to their players by their pet nicknames.

you mean pet nicknames like "joepa"?

Socratic Methodist wrote:and Julius Irving is known as 'Doctor J', not 'Doc'.

Not to Sixers fans, but to my point I wouldn't expect you to know that. Around here you say Doc and nobody thinks of Dwight Gooden, they think of DrJ.

And shut up Raider, "JoePa's" a universally known moniker for paterno, just like I begrudgingly admitted that thanks to the 4-letter network everybody knows who DiceK is. Plus I don't unfurl a littany of pet nicks

Red13JoePa wrote:I don't expecty ANYbody but Moose to know who I'm talking about if I say "The Round Mound Of Rebound" "Doc" "The Alien" "The Big E" "The Legion Of Doom" "Nails" "The Dude" "Head" "Dutch" "Bubba" "Lefty" "Quick Six" "The Minister Of Defense" "B&E" or "Donny 3 Chins."

Let's see...

"The Round Mound of Rebound" = Charles Barkley
"Doc" = Julius Erving
"The Alien" = Allen Iverson?
"Nails" = Lenny Dykstra
"Lefty" = Steve Carlton
"The Minister of Defense" = Reggie White

Don't know the others.