MR

Maybe this is a common problem amongst other players...

I have real problems trying to incorporate the pinky on my fret hand. When I bend my fingers on my fret hand, the pinky kinda points inward toward the middle of my hand instead of remaining straight like the other fingers. This makes it difficult when I need to stretch it out to reach a note. This isn't quite as much a hinderance when playing chords but it makes it harder when playing scales/solos.

Does anyone else have this problem? Are there certain exercises you do or something else you do to compensate?

The only time it really affects my playing is when I'm playing bass...but I do have the same "affliction".

conversationpc wrote:Maybe this is a common problem amongst other players...

I have real problems trying to incorporate the pinky on my fret hand. When I bend my fingers on my fret hand, the pinky kinda points inward toward the middle of my hand instead of remaining straight like the other fingers. This makes it difficult when I need to stretch it out to reach a note. This isn't quite as much a hinderance when playing chords but it makes it harder when playing scales/solos.

Does anyone else have this problem? Are there certain exercises you do or something else you do to compensate?

Jerk off with your other hand.

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Maybe this is a common problem amongst other players...

I have real problems trying to incorporate the pinky on my fret hand. When I bend my fingers on my fret hand, the pinky kinda points inward toward the middle of my hand instead of remaining straight like the other fingers. This makes it difficult when I need to stretch it out to reach a note. This isn't quite as much a hinderance when playing chords but it makes it harder when playing scales/solos.

Does anyone else have this problem? Are there certain exercises you do or something else you do to compensate?

Jerk off with your other hand.

I'm right-handed...

conversationpc wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Maybe this is a common problem amongst other players...

I have real problems trying to incorporate the pinky on my fret hand. When I bend my fingers on my fret hand, the pinky kinda points inward toward the middle of my hand instead of remaining straight like the other fingers. This makes it difficult when I need to stretch it out to reach a note. This isn't quite as much a hinderance when playing chords but it makes it harder when playing scales/solos.

Does anyone else have this problem? Are there certain exercises you do or something else you do to compensate?

Jerk off with your other hand.

I'm right-handed...

Use the fret hand. Gotta keep that dexterity up.

Liam wrote:Use the fret hand. Gotta keep that dexterity up.

Do you remember the Seinfeld episode where George gets a gig as a hand model? They tell him how exquisite his hands are and then they tell him that the previous guy's hand had turned into a permanent claw because of overuse doing a certain thing.

conversationpc wrote:Do you remember the Seinfeld episode where George gets a gig as a hand model? They tell him how exquisite his hands are and then they tell him that the previous guy's hand had turned into a permanent claw because of overuse doing a certain thing.

He wasn't Master of his Domain?

Any serious suggestions out there?

conversationpc wrote:Any serious suggestions out there?

Hand position is very important when playing an instrument. try checking the placement of your hand-if you place your fingers at a different angle, does your pinky move more freely? If your ring finger is too far away, the pinky would move easily. Also, having your wrist arched backwards too far will cause the fingers to be stiff and slow responding.

Once you figure out a better position, you can put a small piece of tape on the neck in the back to remind your hand where it is suppose to be.

is this explanation translating well? If I could see your hands, it would be easier. It is a pretty common problem that is easily fixable.

Have you tried going to a guitar teacher? I bet the teacher could isolate it immediately and suggest correction with just a glance.

(Crazy)Dulce Lady wrote:Hand position is very important when playing an instrument. try checking the placement of your hand-if you place your fingers at a different angle, does your pinky move more freely? If your ring finger is too far away, the pinky would move easily. Also, having your wrist arched backwards too far will cause the fingers to be stiff and slow responding.

Once you figure out a better position, you can put a small piece of tape on the neck in the back to remind your hand where it is suppose to be.

is this explanation translating well? If I could see your hands, it would be easier. It is a pretty common problem that is easily fixable.

Have you tried going to a guitar teacher? I bet the teacher could isolate it immediately and suggest correction with just a glance.

Yeah, I've tried all that. Placing my hand in a more classical-style position, i.e. with the thumb in the middle of the back of the neck, helps some but not much.

Liam wrote: I do have the same "affliction".

me too liam,,dave i can tell ya one thing that would help,, or so ive been told.. .. start 3rd fret with index, middle finger on 4th , ect ect.... one after another, then change the pattern,, ring finger , first , pinky , index , middle.. over and over,, change strings , then skip strings,, ....

... this excercise is NO fun.. try to keep your hand in that classical shape ,, no SRV style on this one.. i have NEVER practiced with a metronome.. but that might help... ill tell ya the best practice ..for me ,, anyway... put on a song you want to learn , find the tab,, and learn it note for note... it sorta ruins the song a bit for listening pleasure,, we are too old to start learning the correct way to play guitar,,forget about the pinky man.. its over..

Eh, teacher be damned, as long as your hand is in a comfortable ergonomic position....you hand is in the right position. I feel that the absolutely worst thing to do is to go to a teacher to have him force you to change what is/was comfortable position just to suit his/her playing style. Granted, a *Good* teacher will recognize a dangerous hand position....but 95% of the guitar teachers out there are just rockers that need to fill in the pay to play gigs with actual money. They are NOT the people to go to for ergonomic correction.

Guitar teacher's are something I don't feel are apropriate, unless you have zero musical training prior to picking up the instrument...and if thats the case, I suggest NOT going to a guitar teacher....but learning another instrument with a more formal teacher. There are way too many guitar teachers that have no business teaching music to anyone out there...and they will simply pass on their bad habits to you.

A golf instructor is necessary, because you can't see what your body is doing...you need an outside eye to point out what's going on. Guitar, you can see and hear all the results....learning the instrument requires discipline, *not* some rocker who's trying to get his band signed and making lesson wages on the side.

Frankly, use common sense....make sure your wrist is straight, you hand is an a lose comfortable position. If you have to force your hand into a contorted, non natural position to fret your notes, you're doing something wrong.


Years ago, I read an interesting quote by Brad Gillis. He said that prior to a certain point, he was a 3 finger player (meaning no pinky). He later started incorporating licks with the pinky. He commented on the fact that the licks he knew prior to incorporating the pinky, he still played 3-fingered, even though he became adept at using his pinky. That's consistent with my playing as well. licks I learned to play with 3 fingers, I didn't change when I started using my pinky.

Guitar playing is muscle memory. If you're having trouble fretting something, you really just have to start slow and carefully work up your muscle memory on it. As we become better guitarists, we often forget that when we were first starting out, just the action of fretting a basic E-major chord was often a case of positioning our left hand fingers with our right hand....before strumming the chord. You might have to do this....think back to when you first started....it was difficult to put a finger in a real basic spot. You might have to take an assist from the right hand a few times, before you can get the finger to fret properly. Then from there, work on fretting the position during the lick REAL slowly. Just like when you first started out.

The better we get at the instrument, the easier our fingers can do what we want...but if we push outside that comfort zone, it's really a case of almost starting over. Be patient, it'll come....

wow,, good read frank!! thanks!

strangegrey wrote:Frankly, use common sense....make sure your wrist is straight, you hand is an a lose comfortable position. If you have to force your hand into a contorted, non natural position to fret your notes, you're doing something wrong.

Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Years ago, I read an interesting quote by Brad Gillis. He said that prior to a certain point, he was a 3 finger player (meaning no pinky). He later started incorporating licks with the pinky. He commented on the fact that the licks he knew prior to incorporating the pinky, he still played 3-fingered, even though he became adept at using his pinky. That's consistent with my playing as well. licks I learned to play with 3 fingers, I didn't change when I started using my pinky.

If I remember correctly, and I've never really watched all that closely, Clapton is pretty much just a three-fingered player also.

Guitar playing is muscle memory. If you're having trouble fretting something, you really just have to start slow and carefully work up your muscle memory on it. As we become better guitarists, we often forget that when we were first starting out, just the action of fretting a basic E-major chord was often a case of positioning our left hand fingers with our right hand....before strumming the chord. You might have to do this....think back to when you first started....it was difficult to put a finger in a real basic spot. You might have to take an assist from the right hand a few times, before you can get the finger to fret properly. Then from there, work on fretting the position during the lick REAL slowly. Just like when you first started out.

The better we get at the instrument, the easier our fingers can do what we want...but if we push outside that comfort zone, it's really a case of almost starting over. Be patient, it'll come....

I haven't played for several years and was not really all that good before that, so this is almost like starting over, though I do remember all the main chords I learned and a few licks and riffs. It's kinda frustrating because I can't quite pick notes cleanly and get a lot of extra string noise from it. I'll keep plugging away, though.

strangegrey wrote:Eh, teacher be damned, as long as your hand is in a comfortable ergonomic position....you hand is in the right position. I feel that the absolutely worst thing to do is to go to a teacher to have him force you to change what is/was comfortable position just to suit his/her playing style. Granted, a *Good* teacher will recognize a dangerous hand position....but 95% of the guitar teachers out there are just rockers that need to fill in the pay to play gigs with actual money. They are NOT the people to go to for ergonomic correction.

Guitar teacher's are something I don't feel are apropriate, unless you have zero musical training prior to picking up the instrument...and if thats the case, I suggest NOT going to a guitar teacher....but learning another instrument with a more formal teacher. There are way too many guitar teachers that have no business teaching music to anyone out there...and they will simply pass on their bad habits to you.

A golf instructor is necessary, because you can't see what your body is doing...you need an outside eye to point out what's going on. Guitar, you can see and hear all the results....learning the instrument requires discipline, *not* some rocker who's trying to get his band signed and making lesson wages on the side.

Frankly, use common sense....make sure your wrist is straight, you hand is an a lose comfortable position. If you have to force your hand into a contorted, non natural position to fret your notes, you're doing something wrong.


Years ago, I read an interesting quote by Brad Gillis. He said that prior to a certain point, he was a 3 finger player (meaning no pinky). He later started incorporating licks with the pinky. He commented on the fact that the licks he knew prior to incorporating the pinky, he still played 3-fingered, even though he became adept at using his pinky. That's consistent with my playing as well. licks I learned to play with 3 fingers, I didn't change when I started using my pinky.

Guitar playing is muscle memory. If you're having trouble fretting something, you really just have to start slow and carefully work up your muscle memory on it. As we become better guitarists, we often forget that when we were first starting out, just the action of fretting a basic E-major chord was often a case of positioning our left hand fingers with our right hand....before strumming the chord. You might have to do this....think back to when you first started....it was difficult to put a finger in a real basic spot. You might have to take an assist from the right hand a few times, before you can get the finger to fret properly. Then from there, work on fretting the position during the lick REAL slowly. Just like when you first started out.

The better we get at the instrument, the easier our fingers can do what we want...but if we push outside that comfort zone, it's really a case of almost starting over. Be patient, it'll come....

no, don't damn us teachers--we do fulfill a purpose. hehe

Just a thought when all else fails is what I meant. Just an subjective eye. a glance if you will. watch yourself play in the mirror. see if you can see anything.

ergonomically comfortable hand position is a good description. try moving your body, drop your elbow, raise your elbow, stand up, sit down. experiment. when I am having trouble with a passage or pattern, I move something. it might help you too. good luck.

Just play like Gary Moore... using only 2 fangers...

conversationpc wrote:Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

yup that might do it. take your hand off the guitar, put your hand in the position it was while holding the guitar with your thumb like that and see how much mobility you have in the fingers. mine get kinda cramped up.

good call, nig.

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

When I say "hooked over the top", I don't mean that most of my thumb is hanging over the top of the guitar. It's the same basic grip that you see most rock players using. That's what I'm talking about.

conversationpc wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

When I say "hooked over the top", I don't mean that most of my thumb is hanging over the top of the guitar. It's the same basic grip that you see most rock players using. That's what I'm talking about.

My thumb moves around a lot based on what chords/notes I am hitting. But it is usually pressed against the back of the neck.

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

When I say "hooked over the top", I don't mean that most of my thumb is hanging over the top of the guitar. It's the same basic grip that you see most rock players using. That's what I'm talking about.

My thumb moves around a lot based on what chords/notes I am hitting. But it is usually pressed against the back of the neck.

Same here but what I'm talking about is actually shown in your avatar.

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

when I was a kid at school I had Classical Flamenco lessons and DO NOT HOOK YOUR THUMB OVER THE TOP was the first of the very strict lessons I had because it inhibits the movement of the hand along the frets.

Little Lenny wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

when I was a kid at school I had Classical Flamenco lessons and DO NOT HOOK YOUR THUMB OVER THE TOP was the first of the very strict lessons I had because it inhibits the movement of the hand along the frets.

You get a gold star, Little Lenny!

NealIsGod wrote:

Little Lenny wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

when I was a kid at school I had Classical Flamenco lessons and DO NOT HOOK YOUR THUMB OVER THE TOP was the first of the very strict lessons I had because it inhibits the movement of the hand along the frets.

You get a gold star, Little Lenny!

FANK YOOO!!

Little Lenny wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

when I was a kid at school I had Classical Flamenco lessons and DO NOT HOOK YOUR THUMB OVER THE TOP was the first of the very strict lessons I had because it inhibits the movement of the hand along the frets.

I am aware of this...Besides, this isn't classical guitar we're talking about. The classical method can actually inhibit you in other styles of playing and is very uncomfortable besides that.

conversationpc wrote:

Little Lenny wrote:

NealIsGod wrote:

conversationpc wrote:Yeah, my wrist is straight and comfortable, for the most part. It is definitely easier to use that finger with a more classical guitar-style grip but I still hook the thumb over the top for most stuff just because it's so much more comfortable.

Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

when I was a kid at school I had Classical Flamenco lessons and DO NOT HOOK YOUR THUMB OVER THE TOP was the first of the very strict lessons I had because it inhibits the movement of the hand along the frets.

I am aware of this...Besides, this isn't classical guitar we're talking about. The classical method can actually inhibit you in other styles of playing and is very uncomfortable besides that.

well for me it works, was just passing something on thats all

NealIsGod wrote:Sounds like that's your problem. Can you play well with your thumb behind the neck instead of hooked over it?

It works for EVH...and Neal too. Look at your avatar, NIG ...Neal's thumb is hanging over the top of the fretboard....granted, he must have big hands to be able to do that on a LP. I can't get my thumb over the top of my LP if I tried.


I think where your thumb rests depends a great deal on style/comfort. However, having more of a 4 finger technique requires getting that thumb down behind the neck alittle more. Once you hook the thumb over the top of the neck, you're restricting your finger movement a tad...

Having said all of that, I am far more comfortable playing a smaller neck, hooking that thumb over the fretboard and playing that way....I also don't use my pinky nearly as much as the other 3 fingers. I do have some 4 finger licks, but most of them are 3 finger licks...I guess it works for me. Not to say I couldn't benefit from getting some more pinky action in there....I just have a fluid, legato style that works well with 3 fingers. Once I pull that thumb down to attack the strings more directly, my playing gets choppier...

Which is another thing to consider....where your thumb rests has a direct correlation to how you fret the strings...which has a correlation on string attack/tone. Like I said, I play more cradling the neck, with the thumb hanging over...and it allows me to get a little more fluid (think george lynch/warren demartini, but obviously not nearly as good:x )...guys that play a little more precise, picking every not, like your john petrucci/steve morse types, play more with the thumb on the back of the neck, classical style....

it all depends on what you're looking to get out of it...as long as you're comfortable and not fucking up your wrist with poor posture...

Good discussion guys...

I wish I had the money to get a different guitar right now. Fresh into my first full-time job, I ran out to the local music store and bought a guitar, not knowing anything about them. I ended up with a $700 Fender Strat HM. Knowing what I know now, I probably should've purchased a standard Strat or even a Les Paul. I don't do enough whammy bar stuff to really warrant having a Floyd Rose-style tremelo. In fact, I haven't even had the bar attached for the last several weeks now.

It sounds fairly decent, though, and it's not bad looking, either.

Man, nothing against those late 80s superstrats...That's all I play. I love em...I've been on the lookout for beatup superstrats to rebuild or restore. I found a Kramer pacer the other day, but it was beyond repair. The day I find a good one....'5150' space tape will be the next ebay order!

strangegrey wrote:Man, nothing against those late 80s superstrats...That's all I play. I love em...I've been on the lookout for beatup superstrats to rebuild or restore. I found a Kramer pacer the other day, but it was beyond repair. The day I find a good one....'5150' space tape will be the next ebay order!

Wanna buy one for about $700? 'Course, I don't know if it's even still worth that much. Probably needs a little work, but it's in good shape overall.