MR

Hey folks,

So how many have you have had your faith tested with hard/melodic rock? Has the recent bullshit with Journey, Van Halen, etc really clouded your ability to enjoy this genre? I'm not talking about whether or not the health of this genre is actually impaired....(although it might factor into this) but your faith in it?

I've gotta admit...I'm not really that encouraged....which is why I'm posting. I'm curious to know if I'm alone here or there are others that feel this way. Now, I clarified above that your impression of Melodic Rock's overall health isn't the question....but your personal feelings on it are. I must admit, I can't imagine another reason why you would feel challenged....so factor that in with your response if you must.

So getting back to me...I'm really at a loss for words...and I have been for a while. The past 10-12 years have exposed alot of melodic/hard/hair rockers for what they are....whining babies that have not clued into the fact that it's no longer 1989...and they can't get away with the multitude of assinine crap they did back in that era. Recent actions by VH and Journey come to mind...but not exclusively. Look at the infighting in styx since like-forever...survivor's revolving door of lead singer...foreigner...The sheffholes and their crap towards andrew...I can go on. It's enough to make your head spin.

I've been of the opinion that whomever is out playing melodicrock, aren't doing it for the fans....but doing it at the expense of the fans. Grabbing them and shaking em upsidedown one more time....to collect any pennies that fall out of their pockets...so they can get one last gasp of income before calling it a day and having to work a real job.

Are they all like this? No fucking way...JSS, Jack Blades, Jim Peterik all seem like genuine guys....but the fact of the matter is a great deal of them are princesses, that are living in alternate reality.


So getting back to point....I've begin to question whether or not I can even consider myself a part of this anymore...I've been listening to alot of different musical styles...finding a great deal of enjoyment there....but although not always the case, when I listen to melodic rock lately....it's hard to not taste the sour flavor left by actions of Friga/Fro, EVH, Frankie Sullivan, Joe Elliott, etc....even if I'm not really listening to them, directly.


It seems to me, that most of these bands have, maybe, 5 years left...tops. Sure, the Stones have been doing it into their 70s...but I can't see Def Leppard being any more relevant than they are now, in another 5 years. Same with VH or Journey....it's all downhill and there isn't an imaginable thing that can pull them out of this....So really, we're watching something that stamped our lives, die before our eyes.

Maybe some can look away or not see the reality of it.....but I find it hard to swallow...hard to digest.



What do you guys feel?

BTW, I'm NOT looking to fight here....I'm looking for constructive discussion on this. If I wanted to fight, I would post this same thing on my board...

The idea is to hear thoughts from people that feel the same as I...or people that feel differently, and why....how do you keep the faith?


Discuss....

They say you never stop listening to the music you grew up with. A truer line was never spoken. I will always be a melodic rock / metal fan and listener. However these bands are dinosaurs ready to become extinct.

I remember getting dragged along as a kid and early teen to with my parents when they went to oldies revivial shows. Franki Vali, The Association, Roy Orbison (that was VERY cool actually), and plenty of other acts. They would play the small ampitheater here in Baltimore at pier 6. What's astonishing now, is that my favorite bands have become those acts and are now OLDER than those favorites of my parents were at the time!!!!!!

Many of us here are in are mid 30's, 40's and in some cases 50's. Do not kid yourself that any of "our" bands are ever going to have a hit again. It just isn't ever going to happen. Just be happy if a 70's or 80's band just puts a new song or some new material out because it's the best you can hope for.

What many people don't get is that it has been over for quite sometime. Some of these acts can still draw audiences, which is a testament to them and this style of music. However barring the one shot reunions of a Van Halen, Kiss (now 11 years since they got back together), The Police, etc. - they are all just waiting to be put out to pasture.

Just look at the Billboard hit singles charts and it will tell you all you need to know. I don't know any of the songs on there. You know why? Because I'm getting fucking old. I hate hip hop, American Idol and Country music and that is all that sells.

So embrace it. I have. I am now what my parents were in the early 80's - going to see my heroes a few more times before they pack it in. I take comfort in the fact that I grew up in the best possible era of music. I will buy a ticket to see these bands as many times as possible, because there will become a time when they are not around to enjoy anymore. With the expception of the fools in Journey of course who I wish empty seats and aging cellulite ridden groupies on.

AR wrote:
I remember getting dragged along as a kid and early teen to with my parents when they went to oldies revivial shows. Franki Vali, The Association, Roy Orbison (that was VERY cool actually), and plenty of other acts.

I love all three of those that you mentioned Ed.
Roy wasn't the only pipes holder though he was of the best.
I'm with ya one the AI thing as well as Hip Hop but disagree
when it comes to a few of the country tunes and artists
thrown our way now.

Interesting question really. Very true we never lose sight of the music we grew up with. In some ways the jury is still out on when to throw the towel in as its all still evolving, we haven't had generations who form a band/go play/sell some product and retire, to show us a cyclic model. Particularly not with the big acts. Take the Stones, pretty hopeless live now, but a huge nostalgia-fuelled money making exercise, they are a shell of their former selves, but who am I to knock them? We can list off tons of touring bands who are minting it on the large corporate venue trail who, while the big dollar carrot is hanging, will take it - and we will go see it, me included.

The bands who were the 'prototypes' in the late 50s and early 60s are still playing and (sporadically) recording; from Paul McCartney to Chuck Berry and multitudes of other has beens, they really don't know when to pack it in and while huge audiences will pay exhorbitant ticket prices, why should they? What price would most people over 35 pay to see Pink Floyd with Waters and Gilmore on the same stage? Just today, I listened to a live set today on the BBC while at work, from Donovan - I'm not a fan particularly but he and his band were brilliant and he's got to be in his 60s.

I guess what this brings me to is I got hooked in rock (Purple/Zep/Free/Bad Co/ T-Rex/ACDC/Alice Cooper/Kiss etc) in the 70s as a Brit school kid. The Sex Pistols and the Clash turned up (reforming again!) in '77, which turned my head and still reside there, but it wasnt until being dragged to The Monsters of Rock in 1980 at Donington that melodic rock and metal dug their claws in and haven't been able to escape since.

Its the fact that its larger than life, its all about virtuosos, great players, fantastic singers. I know what I thought when I heard Eruption and Running with the Devil in 1979 and DSB on the radio in England in 1981, those songs just energised us and were beautifully crafted. When we were lucky enough to see these bands live the sound was huge, it was loud, there was great lighting. These people were special and remote, like gods almost (to a young fella). We were in awe. They were masters of their instruments - EVH couldn't learn to do what he did overnight, he grafted at it. Technology then, made it almost mandatory to sing and play unaided and we loved these people for it.

Do I still get off on it? I guess I do. Throwing Highway Star on in the car at mega-decibels still makes me drive like an idiot, as does Seperate Ways, indeed the list is too long to mention and we all have our favourites.

Which brings me finally (hooray I hear you shout) to the genre as it is now. Here I sit typing on a my Mac on the Internet. Instant access to everything, an on-line world full to the brim. Which is my problem with melodic rock in 2007. There is no quality filter, there are zillions of bands posting stuff all over the place (youtube, myspace), drowning the great stuff I know must be out there. It is out there, but its hard to find and not be dissapointed. I've bought new stuff only to be unimpressed alot of the time - don't get me wrong, I like to give new stuff a listen, but when its a downer, I go and root through the ipod and put some melodic rock/metal comfort food on. Bloody tragic really. But while my fave bands from the 70s/80s/90s still churn stuff out, I'll indulge them - as AR said, there will come a time when these guys are gone forever and we will be faced with Justin Timberlake and P-Diddy being hailed as classic artists - my kids are 5 now and they are going to laugh their heads off when they are old enough to trawl through my ipod, CDs and records, but they might just be a little more inquisitive and responsive to dads old rock stuff when faced with the alternative?

Or am I just dreaming - sorry for waffling

AR wrote:They say you never stop listening to the music you grew up with. A truer line was never spoken. I will always be a melodic rock / metal fan and listener. However these bands are dinosaurs ready to become extinct.

I remember getting dragged along as a kid and early teen to with my parents when they went to oldies revivial shows. Franki Vali, The Association, Roy Orbison (that was VERY cool actually), and plenty of other acts. They would play the small ampitheater here in Baltimore at pier 6. What's astonishing now, is that my favorite bands have become those acts and are now OLDER than those favorites of my parents were at the time!!!!!!

Many of us here are in are mid 30's, 40's and in some cases 50's. Do not kid yourself that any of "our" bands are ever going to have a hit again. It just isn't ever going to happen. Just be happy if a 70's or 80's band just puts a new song or some new material out because it's the best you can hope for.

What many people don't get is that it has been over for quite sometime. Some of these acts can still draw audiences, which is a testament to them and this style of music. However barring the one shot reunions of a Van Halen, Kiss (now 11 years since they got back together), The Police, etc. - they are all just waiting to be put out to pasture.

Just look at the Billboard hit singles charts and it will tell you all you need to know. I don't know any of the songs on there. You know why? Because I'm getting fucking old. I hate hip hop, American Idol and Country music and that is all that sells.

So embrace it. I have. I am now what my parents were in the early 80's - going to see my heroes a few more times before they pack it in. I take comfort in the fact that I grew up in the best possible era of music. I will buy a ticket to see these bands as many times as possible, because there will become a time when they are not around to enjoy anymore. With the expception of the fools in Journey of course who I wish empty seats and aging cellulite ridden groupies on.

AR, that's got to be one of the best post....and so true. I was laughing at your comment about Billboard....I'm in the same boat!

Cheers

Chad

As long a RUSH and Sprigsteen. I might also add in the Police and Genesis reunion shows of this summer too. Continue to do the work that they are doing I will contiune to patronize them by, buying tickets and releases.

I also reconize that I am not a spring chicken anymore will turn 50 next month and why should I expect them to put out better than Ican expect of myself anymore? Iguess a bit of reality that father time is knocking at the door is starting to settle in.


Gail

"Are they all like this? No fucking way...JSS, Jack Blades, Jim Peterik all seem like genuine guys...."

Oh...so JSS will perform for you for free then?

Ed's right. You, or at least I, will never stop listening to the songs and music that made that first huge impression on me.

The fact that so many of those very bands are reuniting and touring again has my blood boiling. I'm just loving it. I know they don't sound as good as they did, but just for the briefest of moments, they make me feel like I'm 18 again. THAT, more than anything keeps me loving it, as I always did.

Yeah, so the genre is ailing, or maybe on it's death bed. I'll always love it. Music has always been huge to me. Those songs that were there in my formative years will always get airplay on my iPod, or whatever device supersedes it.

Rick
The fact that so many of those very bands are reuniting and touring again has my blood boiling. I'm just loving it. I know they don't sound as good as they did, but just for the briefest of moments, they make me feel like I'm 18 again. THAT, more than anything keeps me loving it, as I always did.

In a nutshell Rick, thats it. Although they will probably sound better than they did when we were kids due to massive improvements in sound reinforcement and the fact that most bands can detune to help the singers out?

texafana wrote:"Are they all like this? No fucking way...JSS, Jack Blades, Jim Peterik all seem like genuine guys...."

Oh...so JSS will perform for you for free then?

LOL. You're taking what I said out of context...By the above statement, I was saying that...from my perspective, Jeff, Jack and Jim all seem to *care* about the music. All of them do this to pay the bills (although I wonder just how lucky they all are to have such small bills...as I can't imagine they're making money hand over fist these days to pay such bills)...

but at the same time, they genuinely love this music. They put their heart and soul into it...hell, the story about Peterik back stage at the MRfest writing music about the event...when I heard that, I said to myself "Yup, sounds like Jim...writing about everything"

They care about the song...

I highly doubt someone like Neal Schon *cares* about the song anymore....and I don't think he has for years. It's all about where the money's coming from and what piece of ass he can stuff with his sock....that to me, is really, a sad fact of this. EVH, much the same....

AR wrote:Just look at the Billboard hit singles charts and it will tell you all you need to know. I don't know any of the songs on there. You know why? Because I'm getting fucking old.

HAH!! If that is the basis for getting old, then count me in. I just looked at the latest Billboard we have here in the office. Out of the Hot 100, I know 21 songs. 17 of them are country, so of course I'm required to know them. So four songs outside of my industry out of 100. And do you know why at my age that I don't know "new" music? Because it is mostly shit.

Granted, that opinion is attributed to growing up as quick as I did with various influences. Nature vs. Nurture, music style. I don't think not knowing the 'pop' of today makes one old, just smarter.

strangegrey wrote:So how many have you have had your faith tested with hard/melodic rock? Has the recent bullshit with Journey, Van Halen, etc really clouded your ability to enjoy this genre? I'm not talking about whether or not the health of this genre is actually impaired....(although it might factor into this) but your faith in it?

Not really...I've found more new hard/melodic rock over the last few years than at any time in my life. Also, the fact that I never really lived anywhere near where I could easily get to a concert and enjoy the music I loved in a live setting has really helped.

I've never really had any notion that the musicians I love to listen to are angels in their private lives, so finding out how much of an asshole some of them are hasn't destroyed any of the music for me. Certainly, the whole Journey disaster over the last couple of years has been very disappointing but, in the end, I gained a new appreciation for Jeff's entire career that I hadn't been aware of, other than his time in Yngwie's band. That in itself has been a rather good reward.

Blue Radio Girl wrote:HAH!! If that is the basis for getting old, then count me in. I just looked at the latest Billboard we have here in the office. Out of the Hot 100, I know 21 songs. 17 of them are country, so of course I'm required to know them. So four songs outside of my industry out of 100. And do you know why at my age that I don't know "new" music? Because it is mostly shit.

I've really tried to like a lot of the new music that has come out since the early 90s but I just can't do it. Bad singing, piss poor instrumentation (especially guitar playing), and terrible songwriting just doesn't cut it. Probably 99% of the new music I have found since then has been virtually unknown in the U.S. and a good chunk of it has come out of Europe. That's sad.

conversationpc wrote:

strangegrey wrote:So how many have you have had your faith tested with hard/melodic rock? Has the recent bullshit with Journey, Van Halen, etc really clouded your ability to enjoy this genre? I'm not talking about whether or not the health of this genre is actually impaired....(although it might factor into this) but your faith in it?

Not really...I've found more new hard/melodic rock over the last few years than at any time in my life. Also, the fact that I never really lived anywhere near where I could easily get to a concert and enjoy the music I loved in a live setting has really helped.

I've never really had any notion that the musicians I love to listen to are angels in their private lives, so finding out how much of an asshole some of them are hasn't destroyed any of the music for me. Certainly, the whole Journey disaster over the last couple of years has been very disappointing but, in the end, I gained a new appreciation for Jeff's entire career that I hadn't been aware of, other than his time in Yngwie's band. That in itself has been a rather good reward.

Blue Radio Girl wrote:HAH!! If that is the basis for getting old, then count me in. I just looked at the latest Billboard we have here in the office. Out of the Hot 100, I know 21 songs. 17 of them are country, so of course I'm required to know them. So four songs outside of my industry out of 100. And do you know why at my age that I don't know "new" music? Because it is mostly shit.

I've really tried to like a lot of the new music that has come out since the early 90s but I just can't do it. Bad singing, piss poor instrumentation (especially guitar playing), and terrible songwriting just doesn't cut it. Probably 99% of the new music I have found since then has been virtually unknown in the U.S. and a good chunk of it has come out of Europe. That's sad.

Av?

texafana wrote:"Are they all like this? No fucking way...JSS, Jack Blades, Jim Peterik all seem like genuine guys...."

Oh...so JSS will perform for you for free then?

Well, for the show in my neck of the woods, Jeff basically did perform for free. The fee to enter the festival at 9 that morning was five bucks and Jeff didn't hit the stage until a little after 11:30 that evening. So, yes, in his heart of hearts, Jeff performed for free.

Rick wrote:Av?

My new avatar? It's my custom made ICQ avatar. It's kinda freaky how much it looks like me, actually.

conversationpc
I've really tried to like a lot of the new music that has come out since the early 90s but I just can't do it. Bad singing, piss poor instrumentation (especially guitar playing), and terrible songwriting just doesn't cut it.

Dave, we totally agree, get the flags out

Wow - what a great thread this is!!! I don't think melodic rock is on its deathbed, I think it has evolved. Maybe because I still have a teenager at home and have some exposure to the new stuff out there.

The older guys are still out there playing and I don't expect them to be like they were twenty years ago - they are older, so am I. But....the talent is still out there, JSS has pretty much recharged my batteries (uh, that didn't sound right) as far as music is concerned. Then again he has been around for two decades and I didn't know it.

I am totally disillusioned by what has gone on Journey. Enough that I don't plan on seeing them again. You hit is on the head when you said they don't care about the music, they are out there for money only - and you can see the difference.

I'll even step away from JSS for a minute and focus on another band I enjoy: REO Speedwagon. Yeah, they take a lot of heat and I only like about 50 -75% of what they have put out in the last ten years. But.....Kevin Cronin is passionate about the music. It's in his messages, in his performance and on the CDs.

Paul McCartney could go sit in an English castle and be waited on for the rest of his life and he sure as hell doesn't need the money, but he is passionate about the music and you can hear it in interviews and on "Memory Almost Full".

More recently, and I don't know a whole lot about him personally, I get the impression Rob Thomas is passionate about his music. If you are despondent about the state of melodic rock, just look at the website we are posting on now! For ten years I saw the name Jeff Scott Soto and never knew what he sounded like. How many more fantastic singers are here under our noses and we don't know it?

I guess my point is the musicians who give a damn are out there. It's easy to tell the difference. For every Journey or Van Halen, where the soap opera overrides the talent, there are the folks who live for the music, who care what their fans think, who see it as a give-and-take proposition.

These days you just have to look a little harder for them.

Oh, and if you listen to country music these days, you may be surprised. A lot of what we would consider "rock" in the old days is now in rotation on those country stations. There might be a twang in the voice, but don't let it fool ya - there's a fusion going on over there and it's isn't your grandpa's type of country any more!

So, to sum it up - Journey and VH are rapidly evaporating drops in an ever evolving sea of rock.

Don't let the bastards get ya down!

Strangegrey- I agree with your post. I only want to see the original singers/writers. That includes Lou Gramm, Dennis DeYoung, Steve Perry and Jimi Jamieson.. I have some exceptions. Jason Schiff w Chicago, JSS with Journey or Queen and Sammy with VanHalen. Can you imagine BonJovi w/o Jon , Aerosmith w/o Steven Tyler , Led Zep w/o Robert Plant or the Rolling Stones w/o Mick? Impossible !!!

mistiejourney wrote:Oh, and if you listen to country music these days, you may be surprised. A lot of what we would consider "rock" in the old days is now in rotation on those country stations. There might be a twang in the voice, but don't let it fool ya - there's a fusion going on over there and it's isn't your grandpa's type of country any more!

Interesting that you say that....I've been listening to country ALOT recently. Artists like Brad Paisley and Keith Urban give me the same excitement that Journey did in the mid-80s....It also helps that Im a guitarist, and that I love the fact that theres another form of music out there with great/virtuoso guitarists. Brad Paisley is like the country version of EVH. He literally sounds so amazing that the mistakes sound inspired....

That kind of excitement is vastly missing from Rock music....and it kills me. as my first love...is MR.....and when I write music, it sounds like MR.

But at the same time, I find myself wanted to abandon it. I'm just totally strung out by the crap we've swallowed by artists like Journey....

I dunno...keep it coming folks...good to hear the other views!

Marc S wrote:

conversationpc
I've really tried to like a lot of the new music that has come out since the early 90s but I just can't do it. Bad singing, piss poor instrumentation (especially guitar playing), and terrible songwriting just doesn't cut it.

Dave, we totally agree, get the flags out

strangegrey wrote:

mistiejourney wrote:Oh, and if you listen to country music these days, you may be surprised. A lot of what we would consider "rock" in the old days is now in rotation on those country stations. There might be a twang in the voice, but don't let it fool ya - there's a fusion going on over there and it's isn't your grandpa's type of country any more!

Interesting that you say that....I've been listening to country ALOT recently. Artists like Brad Paisley and Keith Urban give me the same excitement that Journey did in the mid-80s....It also helps that Im a guitarist, and that I love the fact that theres another form of music out there with great/virtuoso guitarists. Brad Paisley is like the country version of EVH. He literally sounds so amazing that the mistakes sound inspired....

That kind of excitement is vastly missing from Rock music....and it kills me. as my first love...is MR.....and when I write music, it sounds like MR.

But at the same time, I find myself wanted to abandon it. I'm just totally strung out by the crap we've swallowed by artists like Journey....

I dunno...keep it coming folks...good to hear the other views!

Country music has come a long way. If they could just get rid of the steel guitar...... god that just shuts me down.

squirt1 wrote:Strangegrey- I agree with your post. I only want to see the original singers/writers. That includes Lou Gramm, Dennis DeYoung, Steve Perry and Jimi Jamieson.. I have some exceptions. Jason Schiff w Chicago, JSS with Journey or Queen and Sammy with VanHalen. Can you imagine BonJovi w/o Jon , Aerosmith w/o Steven Tyler , Led Zep w/o Robert Plant or the Rolling Stones w/o Mick? Impossible !!!

Although Bon Jovi seems to have abandoned their core sound recently, they are a great example...and should be role models to other bands...

The fact of the matter is that Richie and Jon dont get along....they almost killed eachother back in the late 80s...and they RECOGNIZE the fact that they have something magical together....so they've put aside their differences for the good of the music....only to watch it flourish.

How many of these fucking bands have kicked their singers out....came up with some lame ass excuse about Lead Singer's Disease....and destroyed the legacy of the band with their replacement(s)? Could you imagine Bon Jovi without JBJ? I mean shit....it's like Journey without Perry or Styx without Dennis Deyoung.

The sad thing, is that if you look at what I said above....it's very weird, as that's EXACTLY what has happened to Journey and Styx.

Both Neal Schon and Tommy Shaw need to get strapped to a brick wall and beaten near death with a morning star.....fuckers ruined my music!

conversationpc wrote:

Rick wrote:Av?

My new avatar? It's my custom made ICQ avatar. It's kinda freaky how much it looks like me, actually.

Yeah dude. I miss Marty! LOL

I've gone with the sick/demented Karl Childers for mine now.

Rick wrote:Yeah dude. I miss Marty! LOL

I've gone with the sick/demented Karl Childers for mine now.

I'll resurrect him again, I'm sure.

conversationpc wrote:

Rick wrote:Yeah dude. I miss Marty! LOL

I've gone with the sick/demented Karl Childers for mine now.

I'll resurrect him again, I'm sure.

He's a classic bro.

Rick wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Rick wrote:Yeah dude. I miss Marty! LOL

I've gone with the sick/demented Karl Childers for mine now.

I'll resurrect him again, I'm sure.

He's a classic bro.

I can't let my fans down...

I've got two of him actually...One facing the left and the other from the right. I've changed them out every once in a while just to see if anyone noticed.

conversationpc wrote:

Rick wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Rick wrote:Yeah dude. I miss Marty! LOL

I've gone with the sick/demented Karl Childers for mine now.

I'll resurrect him again, I'm sure.

He's a classic bro.

I can't let my fans down...

I've got two of him actually...One facing the left and the other from the right. I've changed them out every once in a while just to see if anyone noticed.

You should ALWAYS be on the right!!!!

RaiderFan wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Rick wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Rick wrote:Yeah dude. I miss Marty! LOL

I've gone with the sick/demented Karl Childers for mine now.

I'll resurrect him again, I'm sure.

He's a classic bro.

I can't let my fans down...

I've got two of him actually...One facing the left and the other from the right. I've changed them out every once in a while just to see if anyone noticed.

You should ALWAYS be on the right!!!!

Well, I'm always right but I'm not always ON the right.

RaiderFan wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Rick wrote:

conversationpc wrote:

Rick wrote:Yeah dude. I miss Marty! LOL

I've gone with the sick/demented Karl Childers for mine now.

I'll resurrect him again, I'm sure.

He's a classic bro.

I can't let my fans down...

I've got two of him actually...One facing the left and the other from the right. I've changed them out every once in a while just to see if anyone noticed.

You should ALWAYS be on the right!!!!

Strangegrey- I remember posting last year or so- what is it abouut guitar players? That is Mick Jones, Neal Schon, Frankie Sullivan, Tommy Shaw. Are they all desparate for $$$ or narscisistic ? How much success would they have had w/o those lead singers/writers? What fair are they at this coming season ? I nominate them for ass clowns !