MR

Hey, all.....

Stuck in traffic on the way home today; popped in the Re-Mastered FTLOSM CD.

I still don't understand what "remastering" is, so can somebody please explain....?

Here's my thoughts:

1. The remastering certainly "beefed up" the overall sound of all the songs - really brought some "life" into them, because to be honest, on the first listen of the original 94 version....meh.....

2. I don't understand why it wasn't done (in the first place) to sound like this back in the day.....did Studio Engineering REALLY COME THAT FAR in "leaps & bounds" in a decade??

3. Oh yeah - a study in vocal control, power, and gorgeous sound: listen to the sustained "heart" after the Bridge, and before the Chorus ("...listen to your heeeeeeaaaaarrrrrrrrrrt....")

4. Steve can certainly pull the "high tones" out of the hat....but, he used them sparingly, and for effect: In "Young Hearts Forever", he used them in the phrase, "With somebody like-a you, yeah..."

Thoughts? Comments?

TRAGChick wrote:Hey, all.....

Stuck in traffic on the way home today; popped in the Re-Mastered FTLOSM CD.

I still don't understand what "remastering" is, so can somebody please explain....?

Here's my thoughts:

1. The remastering certainly "beefed up" the overall sound of all the songs - really brought some "life" into them, because to be honest, on the first listen of the original 94 version....meh.....

2. I don't understand why it wasn't done (in the first place) to sound like this back in the day.....did Studio Engineering REALLY COME THAT FAR in "leaps & bounds" in a decade??

3. Oh yeah - a study in vocal control, power, and gorgeous sound: listen to the sustained "heart" after the Bridge, and before the Chorus ("...listen to your heeeeeeaaaaarrrrrrrrrrt....")

4. Steve can certainly pull the "high tones" out of the hat....but, he used them sparingly, and for effect: In "Young Hearts Forever", he used them in the phrase, "With somebody like-a you, yeah..."

Thoughts? Comments?

From my understanding of it, they took the original studio master tapes and recorded from them with todays technology. Evidently it's better because the difference is very noticeable.

I do like the way that album sounds now.

I agree that the sound of the remastered FTLOSM is better than the original. I liked the original pressing as well, but the newer version is much clearer and less muddled (Plus there's an extra vocal ad-lib in "Young Hearts Forever").

I bought the newly remastered Street Talk the same time as FTLOSM and could not tell much of a difference from the older version (besides the bonus tracks of course).

On the remastered Frontiers CD, the version of "Only Solutions" sounds not only re-mixed, but some of the instruments sound like they are from different recordings than the version on Time3. It's a completely different mix (with the same vocal track).

Johnny Mohawk wrote:I agree that the sound of the remastered FTLOSM is better than the original. I liked the original pressing as well, but the newer version is much clearer and less muddled (Plus there's an extra vocal ad-lib in "Young Hearts Forever").

Yeah - what the hell was THAT??

Did he throw that in "off the cuff" during remastering, or what? 'Cause it's NOT on the original......

I'd have to go back and check and compare, but it seems to me that I had the feeling that the vocal for Stand Up is a different take. I could be wrong. Haven't heard the remaster since it was released and even longer for the original.

My guess on "Young Hearts Forever" is that they re-mastered an original version of the song, and the one that appeared on the 94' version had an extra edit.
It's such a small difference that I'm sure not many people (including Perry himself) would even notice. You would really have had to have heard the song repeatedly and memorized every nuance (like apparently, we have) to even tell a difference.

Probably the same thing that happened with the re-mastered version of "If Only For the Moment Girl". That song has a few different vocal lines from the original and was probably re-mastered from a pre-edited version as well.

As far as "Stand Up..." goes, the vocal line is the same, just crisper with the re-mastered sound (IMO).

Memorex wrote:I'd have to go back and check and compare, but it seems to me that I had the feeling that the vocal for Stand Up is a different take. I could be wrong. Haven't heard the remaster since it was released and even longer for the original.

Do you mean he chose another from the vault...or re-recorded it?

IMO, "Listen to your Heart" sounds that way, too....

TRAGChick wrote:

Memorex wrote:I'd have to go back and check and compare, but it seems to me that I had the feeling that the vocal for Stand Up is a different take. I could be wrong. Haven't heard the remaster since it was released and even longer for the original.

Do you mean he chose another from the vault...or re-recorded it?

IMO, "Listen to your Heart" sounds that way, too....

When bands go into the studio, there's always going to be multiple takes of every part of the song. In the case of FTLOSM, all they did when they re-mastered it was take one of Perry's other takes and use it. A lot of times when you're in the studio, you'll change your ideas of a song once you hear it all thrown together. When bands record with producers, they are heavily influenced by that persons interpretation of their songs, and their songs can change dramatically. The producer probably didn't like Perry's ad-lib at the time, but threw it in now to change it up some. Who knows?

First impression was that it was a different take, but definitely from the same sessions.

Colors Of The Spirt from TBF has a different intro as well.

Memorex wrote:First impression was that it was a different take, but definitely from the same sessions.

Colors Of The Spirt from TBF has a different intro as well.

Yep. He didn't re-record anything. Just different takes on the original recordings. And of course we would notice since we have every note on every song memorized.

Lora wrote:

Memorex wrote:First impression was that it was a different take, but definitely from the same sessions.

Colors Of The Spirt from TBF has a different intro as well.

Yep. He didn't re-record anything. Just different takes on the original recordings. And of course we would notice since we have every note on every song memorized.

There is actually a reason we can pick up nuances like that, just read about it in "This is Your Brain on Music" - picked it up in a museum bookstore. Has something to do with how our brain is wired by the music. Now if I could only explain the neurological foundation for it!

G.I.Jim wrote:

TRAGChick wrote:

Memorex wrote:I'd have to go back and check and compare, but it seems to me that I had the feeling that the vocal for Stand Up is a different take. I could be wrong. Haven't heard the remaster since it was released and even longer for the original.

Do you mean he chose another from the vault...or re-recorded it?

IMO, "Listen to your Heart" sounds that way, too....

When bands go into the studio, there's always going to be multiple takes of every part of the song. In the case of FTLOSM, all they did when they re-mastered it was take one of Perry's other takes and use it. A lot of times when you're in the studio, you'll change your ideas of a song once you hear it all thrown together. When bands record with producers, they are heavily influenced by that persons interpretation of their songs, and their songs can change dramatically. The producer probably didn't like Perry's ad-lib at the time, but threw it in now to change it up some. Who knows?

Yeah; I totally get what you're saying....and recording take after take is a pain in the ASS!! LOL

But, my question is:

FTLOSM was recorded - what - 13 years ago(??!!).....what I don't understand is why anyone would hang on to all that stuff - and then all of a sudden, want to make changes...

MORE THAN A DECADE LATER.

I've always been of the mindset that "once the CD's out there, that's IT" ~ y'know?

So....

Not normally this anal, but I went back to compare the two versions of Stand Up. Mind you, I spent a whopping 3 or 4 minutes on this all-important task. At further listen, I'd say they are the same vocal track, just mixed differently. For instance, on the word "fantasy" near the beginning, he faded into an echo on the original, but not on the remixed version. The music is definitely mixed differently, highlighting symbol sounds that were not previously heard and accentuating the bass throughout the song.

The new versions of most of the songs are so much brighter and clear. I know a lot of folks didn't feel they were worth purchasing, but I highly recommend it. And then don't reduce it down to an MP3 or you lose half of the effort. I think Strange Medicine and TBF benefited the most from the re-releases.

By the way, I disagree that there is no value in re-tooling a CD. Just speaking of Stand Up, the bass driven version adds an underlying groove that makes the song better. Maybe a singer or band go out on tour for a few months and realize a better way of playing it. I'd prefer a new cd, but if an artist feels there is something to be added, then I think it is part of their craft. It's an extension of their creativity. Fortunately, true fans will always have the old versions anyway. Especially in this day and age where we can preserve them via computers.

All that being said, I often miss the craks and pops of vinyl. It's comforting to her something familiar, right?

Memorex wrote:By the way, I disagree that there is no value in re-tooling a CD. Just speaking of Stand Up, the bass driven version adds an underlying groove that makes the song better. Maybe a singer or band go out on tour for a few months and realize a better way of playing it. I'd prefer a new cd, but if an artist feels there is something to be added, then I think it is part of their craft. It's an extension of their creativity. Fortunately, true fans will always have the old versions anyway. Especially in this day and age where we can preserve them via computers.

All that being said, I often miss the craks and pops of vinyl. It's comforting to her something familiar, right?

Thanks for your insight. I love the remastered FTLOSM and Street Talk CDs. They're the only ones I bought. I didn't know he redid TBF. I'll get that one too because it's my favorite Journey CD.

I agree about the cracks and pops. I still listen to my vinyl occasionally. It's a nostalgia thing.

Memorex wrote:By the way, I disagree that there is no value in re-tooling a CD. Just speaking of Stand Up, the bass driven version adds an underlying groove that makes the song better.

Hell-to-the-YEAH! Noticed that, too....

Maybe a singer or band go out on tour for a few months and realize a better way of playing it.

This is just too funny ~ because that's EXACTLY how I feel about TRAG's song, "On The Edge"....playing it "live", I came up with something that makes me go, "DAMN!! WHY didn't I come up with that IN THE STUDIO??!!"

So now ~ every time we do that song in Concert....it's a personal "Do-Over" for me.

I'd prefer a new cd, but if an artist feels there is something to be added, then I think it is part of their craft. It's an extension of their creativity. Fortunately, true fans will always have the old versions anyway. Especially in this day and age where we can preserve them via computers.

Well, now I'm in a quandry.....but hey....I guess if you have the $$$$, you can do whatever you WANT with your songs...right?

All that being said, I often miss the craks and pops of vinyl. It's comforting to her something familiar, right?

Hell-to-the-NO!

Lora wrote:

Memorex wrote:First impression was that it was a different take, but definitely from the same sessions.

Colors Of The Spirt from TBF has a different intro as well.

Yep. He didn't re-record anything. Just different takes on the original recordings. And of course we would notice since we have every note on every song memorized.

Thanks for clearing that up for us Lora, not that I would ever waste any sleep over it.

TRAGChick wrote:

G.I.Jim wrote:

TRAGChick wrote:

Memorex wrote:I'd have to go back and check and compare, but it seems to me that I had the feeling that the vocal for Stand Up is a different take. I could be wrong. Haven't heard the remaster since it was released and even longer for the original.

Do you mean he chose another from the vault...or re-recorded it?

IMO, "Listen to your Heart" sounds that way, too....

When bands go into the studio, there's always going to be multiple takes of every part of the song. In the case of FTLOSM, all they did when they re-mastered it was take one of Perry's other takes and use it. A lot of times when you're in the studio, you'll change your ideas of a song once you hear it all thrown together. When bands record with producers, they are heavily influenced by that persons interpretation of their songs, and their songs can change dramatically. The producer probably didn't like Perry's ad-lib at the time, but threw it in now to change it up some. Who knows?

Yeah; I totally get what you're saying....and recording take after take is a pain in the ASS!! LOL

But, my question is:

FTLOSM was recorded - what - 13 years ago(??!!).....what I don't understand is why anyone would hang on to all that stuff - and then all of a sudden, want to make changes...

MORE THAN A DECADE LATER.

I've always been of the mindset that "once the CD's out there, that's IT" ~ y'know?

Agreed.

That's more than remastering, it's remixing too.

TRAGChick wrote: ... But, my question is:

FTLOSM was recorded - what - 13 years ago(??!!).....what I don't understand is why anyone would hang on to all that stuff - and then all of a sudden, want to make changes...

MORE THAN A DECADE LATER.

I've always been of the mindset that "once the CD's out there, that's IT" ~ y'know?

I dunno. I've owned a couple homes for more than a decade and I'd love to remodel one of them. Take some old wood & tin from a hundred yr old family barn and put it in the den. Maybe make a new mantle for the fireplace. Re-stain the foyer doors with a new color I saw last month. Move the driveway. Add on to the garage. Expand & update the kitchen. Fix some light switches that I never really understood why I put them there in the first place.

Then I could say that the house has been 'remastered', no?


later~

IMO, the vocals for Stand Up were pulled to the front more, or they turned the mix of the instruments down.

Red13JoePa wrote:

TRAGChick wrote:

G.I.Jim wrote:

TRAGChick wrote:

Memorex wrote:I'd have to go back and check and compare, but it seems to me that I had the feeling that the vocal for Stand Up is a different take. I could be wrong. Haven't heard the remaster since it was released and even longer for the original.

Do you mean he chose another from the vault...or re-recorded it?

IMO, "Listen to your Heart" sounds that way, too....

When bands go into the studio, there's always going to be multiple takes of every part of the song. In the case of FTLOSM, all they did when they re-mastered it was take one of Perry's other takes and use it. A lot of times when you're in the studio, you'll change your ideas of a song once you hear it all thrown together. When bands record with producers, they are heavily influenced by that persons interpretation of their songs, and their songs can change dramatically. The producer probably didn't like Perry's ad-lib at the time, but threw it in now to change it up some. Who knows?

Yeah; I totally get what you're saying....and recording take after take is a pain in the ASS!! LOL

But, my question is:

FTLOSM was recorded - what - 13 years ago(??!!).....what I don't understand is why anyone would hang on to all that stuff - and then all of a sudden, want to make changes...

MORE THAN A DECADE LATER.

I've always been of the mindset that "once the CD's out there, that's IT" ~ y'know?

Agreed.

That's more than remastering, it's remixing too.

Didn't Ozzy do that as well with his first couple of solo albums. I think I remember hearing that when they remastered those, they re-recorded the drums & bass because they were pissed at the guys who originally played on the albums.

conversationpc wrote;

Didn't Ozzy do that as well with his first couple of solo albums. I think I remember hearing that when they remastered those, they re-recorded the drums & bass because they were pissed at the guys who originally played on the albums.

Yes, Ozzy had his current rhythm section RE-RECORD the parts from his first two solo albums, replacing the original musicians contributions. Nothing was re-recorded on the re-issue of FTLOSM. It was just re-mastered and in some cases re-mixed. Maybe the new version is closer to what they had wanted it to sound like in the first place, who knows.
Kinda like how the Beatles "Let it Be...Naked" was released a few years ago. It features the exact same music that they originally recorded, minus the added production and instrumentation that accompanied the original release (which was added by the producers and not the band themselves).
Another thing to note about the Ozzy situation is that the reason those two albums were re-recorded, is because there was/is financial conflicts between the Ozzy camp and those two former bandmates (Bob Daisley and Lee Kerslake), so Ozzy's management (his wife) had the idea of re-recording their parts, so they would no longer receive a cut on future sales of those albums.

Johnny Mohawk wrote:Another thing to note about the Ozzy situation is that the reason those two albums were re-recorded, is because there was/is financial conflicts between the Ozzy camp and those two former bandmates (Bob Daisley and Lee Kerslake), so Ozzy's management (his wife) had the idea of re-recording their parts, so they would no longer receive a cut on future sales of those albums.

That's really underhanded.

conversationpc wrote

That's really underhanded.

Couldn't agree more!