MR

I've seen several forum users mention this, is there any concrete evidence to support this banter? I seriously can't believe they would ever take such a project into the studio. ? ? ?

texafana wrote:I've seen several forum users mention this, is there any concrete evidence to support this banter? I seriously can't believe they would ever take such a project into the studio. ? ? ?

I haven't seen any concrete evidence of this.

I will go on record to say that they should leave the classics alone. If, by chance, they do get to do this ( and I hope Perry puts a stop to it), it will be one of the most fucking stupid moves they have made in the last year. The classics have stood the test of time (so far.). I say if the songs are awesome already, why mess with it? I think Frick and Frack are losing their minds................

Ha Ha, you tell 'em Sallee. There is no concrete evidence, only hints and speculation that is what they are doing in the studio right now (or rather last month) with Kevin Shirley and their new lead singer (Arnel?). JSS was on record as saying it was talked about, but scrapped. Then, he got fired ... So, maybe the idea is back on? It was originally mentioned by Neal that they wanted to "re-work the old hits" (as in "look what happened with Jon's Faithfully").

"It was originally mentioned by Neal that they wanted to "re-work the old hits"

That's one of the quotes I've been hearing about, any links to that statement by Neal?

texafana wrote:"It was originally mentioned by Neal that they wanted to "re-work the old hits"

That's one of the quotes I've been hearing about, any links to that statement by Neal?

Fireworks Magazine interview March 07. It was an absolute plan to do so (with JSS), but a higher power (who has a say in how the classic material is used) squashed the plan.

Here's the interview quote in question -

You’ve been quoted as saying that you want to stay out of America this year, do you think you’ve overdone the touring in the last few years?

Neal - "Well, you know what? I think with the change in the band now with Jeff, we have to get out and see what interest is out there in the rest of the world – I think it’s the right thing to do. We’ve toured extensively in the States for the last eight years without a break and I think we need to give it a rest, and now that things are picking up for us in Europe and in South America – we’re going to concentrate on different parts of the world this year. We’ll come over there and play the dates and then come back for a writing session and make a new CD. We’re also re-recording all our Greatest Hits and some of the more obscure songs that are on our big records, with Jeff in the studio. That’s probably the first thing we’ll put out and then we’ll come with a brand new record as well, and then we’re coming back over to Europe to headline some festivals. How about that? We’re headlining!"

Hope this helps. Dare I say that due to certain singer changes these plans were not followed.

wow..Thanks Andrew! Like a few others have posted, I'm scratching my head thinking "what was he thinking?". While I can see a live recording of the greatest hits would be kind of cool, in a concert setting. Maybe something similar to the DirecTV series where they have a band perform a cd/album live from start to finish. I think Heart was the first band in that series? I don't think putting a modern production on the classix would make them any better....at all. hmm... I wonder if they could go back and strip out Perry's lead vox and plug them into some modern sounding production with the current line up. That might be interesting?

If I was re-recording anything...it would be as a lush acoustic arrangement or with an orchestra or both...strings...expand on the classics. Definitely not a direct cover just with a different singer.

A studio release? seems pointless, really. Obviously already mentioned, the classics stood the test of time, but the different years those came out in 1977 - 1996, the sound of the band changed as well, which ads to the unique sound. If they re-record them now in a final bid of desperation, all the songs would sound the same, nothing unique about them but worse vocals and probably some more random shredding from Neal, as he probably always wanted to do.

I think re-recording the originals with a new singer would be a big mistake. I was hoping with JSS there would be new music. They need to do new music. The classics are just that, classic, they will never die.

First, I hate the idea of re-recording the classics. This never seems to work well... Remixing, remastering, okay, but not re-recording.

Second, I'd just reread that Herbie Herbert interview yesterday, where he claims, "Because of the control that Steve had, plus prohibiting the members of Journey from ever re-recording any songs that were previously recorded with him. He and his attorney just drafted this unbelievable thing, I told the guys never to sign it, and they did." Don't know if it's true or not, but there must be something to it.

RipRokken wrote:First, I hate the idea of re-recording the classics. This never seems to work well... Remixing, remastering, okay, but not re-recording.

Second, I'd just reread that Herbie Herbert interview yesterday, where he claims, "Because of the control that Steve had, plus prohibiting the members of Journey from ever re-recording any songs that were previously recorded with him. He and his attorney just drafted this unbelievable thing, I told the guys never to sign it, and they did." Don't know if it's true or not, but there must be something to it.

Steve Perry...

God bless him for that move. Even back then he knew he was dealing with vampires and had to protect the legacy. They would have slaughtered the material by now and DSB would probably be the Windows Vista boot up music !!!

Andrew wrote:If I was re-recording anything...it would be as a lush acoustic arrangement or with an orchestra or both...strings...expand on the classics. Definitely not a direct cover just with a different singer.

Are you kidding? This is Journey we are talking about. They wouldn't spend 5 dollars if they didn't have to. Your idea is grand, because you ripped it from moi, but NO WAY would they do that. I remember the Virginia show was supposed to have a 30+ orchestra for WYLAW, and they nixed that idea, and that was for a one off thing.

I am shocked they are in the studio and not doing it at Friga's crib, where it would be free....or are they at Princesses house?

If they were able to re-record their stuff, you have to ask what's in it for them. Does it then give them more control over the material? Not sure about that, because the songwriters are still the writers. Do they hope to improve on the old stuff? Can't really be done -- I mean, even if they put out something technically more superior, there is a reason the old songs are classics -- they have become memories for people and you can't improve on a memory. Look at several movie remakes, which obviously had much more money and technology poured into them, yet the simple originals remain superior.

There are a few instances of re-recorded songs that come to mind, and some work, some don't.

1) Bands that had poorly circulated debut albums that re-record some of the best songs for later releases with bigger labels -- those often DO work, because access to better studios, better producers, can pay off. Switchfoot is a good example. Their song "I Dare You To Move" sounds much better on 'Beautiful Letdown" than on "Learning to Breathe". Obviously, this wouldn't fit Journey's situation.

2) ASIA re-recorded many of their greatest hits for a special compilation disc with their last singer John Payne, and he even played Steve Howe's guitar parts (very faithfully, I might add!). They didn't really try to add a new dimension to the songs -- it was just the classics done fairly faithfully with John Payne on lead vox. Not an improvement at all, but a nice collector's item for hardcore fans. I guess their intention was to try to push audience identification between Payne and those songs, but I doubt it did much. Not a good technique if that was their intention. Is this what Journey might be doing? Hopefully trying to rewire people's thinking into associating their classics with a new singer? That would fail miserably.

3) Quiet Riot did some updated versions of classic songs on one of their releases, and for the most part, they sucked. The production was much more raw, and they just failed in comparison. Turned out that for whichever album that was, their current label pushed them to do it, because they thought the inclusion of those songs would increase the sales potential -- they didn't have the rights to include the original songs, but DID have the rights to re-record them. Even Quiet Riot wasn't in favor of that move, and didn't like the finished results. You also see several cheapie multi-artist compilations thrown about by fly-by-night labels, and when you get them, realize that what's included are not the original songs, but poorly re-recorded versions -- I'm guessing for the same reason. One great example is the HORRENDOUS version of "Smooth Up In Ya" by Marq Torien (I think credited still as "Bulletboys") for some piece of crap collection. Anyway, this technique is nothing more than a money grab, and does no justice whatsoever -- I file that under, short term gain, long term pain... Is this what Journey could be after?

What do you think?

RipRokken wrote:1) Bands that had poorly circulated debut albums that re-record some of the best songs for later releases with bigger labels -- those often DO work, because access to better studios, better producers, can pay off. Switchfoot is a good example. Their song "I Dare You To Move" sounds much better on 'Beautiful Letdown" than on "Learning to Breathe". Obviously, this wouldn't fit Journey's situation.

Whitesnake did that with "Crying in the Rain" and "Here I Go Again", both of which were included on 1982's "Saints & Sinners". The originals were good but the versions on the 1987 self-titled album were awesome...and the album version of "Here I Go Again" is much better than that crappy, keyboard-heavy, radio version that actually made the charts.

Well I don't know if Perry was the one who stopped the idea of Journey rerecording the classics, but if he did... I'm happy he stepped in. The classics don't need to be rerecorded... those songs are perfect just the way they are.

RipRokken wrote:If they were able to re-record their stuff, you have to ask what's in it for them. Does it then give them more control over the material? Not sure about that, because the songwriters are still the writers. Do they hope to improve on the old stuff? Can't really be done -- I mean, even if they put out something technically more superior, there is a reason the old songs are classics -- they have become memories for people and you can't improve on a memory. Look at several movie remakes, which obviously had much more money and technology poured into them, yet the simple originals remain superior.

There are a few instances of re-recorded songs that come to mind, and some work, some don't.

1) Bands that had poorly circulated debut albums that re-record some of the best songs for later releases with bigger labels -- those often DO work, because access to better studios, better producers, can pay off. Switchfoot is a good example. Their song "I Dare You To Move" sounds much better on 'Beautiful Letdown" than on "Learning to Breathe". Obviously, this wouldn't fit Journey's situation.

2) ASIA re-recorded many of their greatest hits for a special compilation disc with their last singer John Payne, and he even played Steve Howe's guitar parts (very faithfully, I might add!). They didn't really try to add a new dimension to the songs -- it was just the classics done fairly faithfully with John Payne on lead vox. Not an improvement at all, but a nice collector's item for hardcore fans. I guess their intention was to try to push audience identification between Payne and those songs, but I doubt it did much. Not a good technique if that was their intention. Is this what Journey might be doing? Hopefully trying to rewire people's thinking into associating their classics with a new singer? That would fail miserably.

3) Quiet Riot did some updated versions of classic songs on one of their releases, and for the most part, they sucked. The production was much more raw, and they just failed in comparison. Turned out that for whichever album that was, their current label pushed them to do it, because they thought the inclusion of those songs would increase the sales potential -- they didn't have the rights to include the original songs, but DID have the rights to re-record them. Even Quiet Riot wasn't in favor of that move, and didn't like the finished results. You also see several cheapie multi-artist compilations thrown about by fly-by-night labels, and when you get them, realize that what's included are not the original songs, but poorly re-recorded versions -- I'm guessing for the same reason. One great example is the HORRENDOUS version of "Smooth Up In Ya" by Marq Torien (I think credited still as "Bulletboys") for some piece of crap collection. Anyway, this technique is nothing more than a money grab, and does no justice whatsoever -- I file that under, short term gain, long term pain... Is this what Journey could be after?

What do you think?

It seems like a weird idea to me, but I can't be objective. It just depends on who the listener is. If they had done this with Jeff I would have been the first in line to buy it. If it is going to sound close to Steve Perry(or rather they think it will), then what is the point in re-recording it unless Steve himself wanted to re-record it? Maybe they are changing it up a bit?

I can see recording a concert for a DVD or something though. Or even re-recording after the new singer has been in the band for a while after the new stuff. I don't know.

I think this would be a really horrible idea, no matter who is singing. I think that songs that are considered "classics" are classics because they capture a moment in time. For example, I heard the theme song for Fast Times at Ridgemont High (Sammy Hagar) the other day on the radio. I haven't heard that song in ages. It immediately took me back to the pre-Van Hagar shows I saw of Sammy's and what a great time they were. Some songs translate well when a DIFFERENT band remakes them, but I don't think they do when the same band remakes them. If Journey did this, it really gives the impression that they've run out of new ideas.

Rockindeano wrote:

Andrew wrote:If I was re-recording anything...it would be as a lush acoustic arrangement or with an orchestra or both...strings...expand on the classics. Definitely not a direct cover just with a different singer.

Are you kidding? This is Journey we are talking about. They wouldn't spend 5 dollars if they didn't have to. Your idea is grand, because you ripped it from moi, but NO WAY would they do that. I remember the Virginia show was supposed to have a 30+ orchestra for WYLAW, and they nixed that idea, and that was for a one off thing.

I am shocked they are in the studio and not doing it at Friga's crib, where it would be free....or are they at Princesses house?

From my understanding, they're not paying a dime to be in the studio. Shirley is paid for also. You're right Dean, these guys wouldn't pay a dime and they're not.

conversationpc wrote:Whitesnake did that with "Crying in the Rain" and "Here I Go Again", both of which were included on 1982's "Saints & Sinners". The originals were good but the versions on the 1987 self-titled album were awesome...and the album version of "Here I Go Again" is much better than that crappy, keyboard-heavy, radio version that actually made the charts.

Excellent examples of what I was talking about. There may be people that grew up with the originals, but I first heard them on the S/T album and was blown away. By the way, John Sykes guitar solo on "Crying In The Rain" from that album is my all-time favorite.

My take is that if they are re-do'ing the classics, then it will be for a record that will be released in the countries in which they plan to tour. Other countries might have Perry recordings, but they will never be able to tell the new from the old like America will. This allows Journey to tour with the singer that those countries are hearing on their radios. And I bet that although this was the plan last spring, Soto was just too different for Perry to allow it. Thus, the need for the band to find a Perry clone.

Who knows. If this is what's happening, then Perry himself might be in the studio overseeing the whole project. Doubt it, but it's possible.

If this arrangement does work, then maybe the band will test the American waters. If that goes over, or at least enough time has elapsed for all of us to get over the whole debacle, then they might do a new record. If none of this goes over very well, I'm sure they'll dump the new guy and look for someone else.

Wouldn't it be kinda cool if Journey had an America-touring singer, AND an international-touring singer? Kinda like the east & west touring TSO bands, nobody would really care or know any difference.


later~

Andrew wrote:If I was re-recording anything...it would be as a lush acoustic arrangement or with an orchestra or both...strings...expand on the classics. Definitely not a direct cover just with a different singer.

That's what I don't get! Didn't like the idea of re-doing the classics even when JSS was in. But at least they would have had a different feel to them to appreciate. What the heck would be the point of re-doing them with somebody that sounds just like Perry???

Arkansas wrote:
Who knows. If this is what's happening, then Perry himself might be in the studio overseeing the whole project. Doubt it, but it's possible.


later~

Now THAT is hilarious!!

Indyjoe wrote:I can see recording a concert for a DVD or something though.

That's a MUCH better idea. Worked well for me with "Journey 2001", though I've recently been told that even Augeri's vocals were re-recorded. I was watching it just the other day (before I'd learned of this), and saw a part where I could have sworn Augeri's mouth didn't fit what I heard. I actually stopped and rewound it to watch again, but thought, "Nahhh... must have been my imagination." I'll have to look closer next time!

Liquid_Drummer wrote:

RipRokken wrote:First, I hate the idea of re-recording the classics. This never seems to work well... Remixing, remastering, okay, but not re-recording.

Second, I'd just reread that Herbie Herbert interview yesterday, where he claims, "Because of the control that Steve had, plus prohibiting the members of Journey from ever re-recording any songs that were previously recorded with him. He and his attorney just drafted this unbelievable thing, I told the guys never to sign it, and they did." Don't know if it's true or not, but there must be something to it.

Steve Perry...

God bless him for that move. Even back then he knew he was dealing with vampires and had to protect the legacy. They would have slaughtered the material by now and DSB would probably be the Windows Vista boot up music !!!

I could not agree more. Mr P smart move

Rockindeano wrote:Are you kidding? This is Journey we are talking about. They wouldn't spend 5 dollars if they didn't have to.

Hmm... In another thread, I offered to call Arnel at his hotel and give him some fan encouragement. Maybe I should start with the Motel 6's!

conversationpc wrote:Whitesnake did that with "Crying in the Rain" and "Here I Go Again", both of which were included on 1982's "Saints & Sinners". The originals were good but the versions on the 1987 self-titled album were awesome...and the album version of "Here I Go Again" is much better than that crappy, keyboard-heavy, radio version that actually made the charts.

Dont forget fool for your loving...However, I will add, the singer's been the same the whole way through.

The thing I find very unsettling with this plan was the fact that it would've sounded dreadfully different with a different singer. Doesn't matter how good the singer is...the thing that *stamps* those old Journey songs is Perry's voice, not the guitar.

I see this as another sign that Schon's ego has moved past his helmet size. To think that the instrumentation was more important than the voice is just lunacy. Sheer lunacy. Even though this 'higher power' squashed the idea, If that higher power was perry...he would have had nothing to worry about. This project would have fallen flat on its face...and not many people would have bought it, finding it way too unsettling.

In order to compare this scenario to whitesnake, it would be a case of Perry rerecording Journey tunes with other musicians. THAT would be far easier to listen to than the other way around. Sure, we'd miss the 2 dickwads and the rhythm section. However, in the end, the voice is what would make the project listenable or not.

But to have someone else singing Escape...with everything else sounding the same...is just awful. Like karaoke....or worse, those recording booths you see in mini-malls, where you can go in and record a singing track over a backing track...and take the tape home and play it for your cringing family members.

RipRokken wrote:Hmm... In another thread, I offered to call Arnel at his hotel and give him some fan encouragement. Maybe I should start with the Motel 6's!

I'd start digging through some of the cardboard boxes whereever san francisco's homeless reside, first...

Molly Hatchet re-recorded their classics with their new vocalist and honestly, it's pretty darn good. Survivor has re-recorded some of their best tunes with their new singer, again, pretty good stuff. Kiss re-recorded Beth with Eric Carr, didn't care for it, but again, it's been done and it's not the worst idea I've ever heard.

Clasicrockldy wrote:I will go on record to say that they should leave the classics alone. If, by chance, they do get to do this ( and I hope Perry puts a stop to it), it will be one of the most fucking stupid moves they have made in the last year. The classics have stood the test of time (so far.). I say if the songs are awesome already, why mess with it? I think Frick and Frack are losing their minds.............

I agree on all of that except the part of Neal and Jon losing their minds. If this is actually happening then they have ALREADY LOST their damn minds. It's sickening. THOSE SONGS ARE FINE THE WAY THEY ARE! LEAVE THEM BE!

Assholes.

epresley wrote:Molly Hatchet re-recorded their classics with their new vocalist and honestly, it's pretty darn good. Survivor has re-recorded some of their best tunes with their new singer, again, pretty good stuff. Kiss re-recorded Beth with Eric Carr, didn't care for it, but again, it's been done and it's not the worst idea I've ever heard.

All examples of bands that are re-recording stuff which egregiously violates the one major stamp of the music. I will argue that Robin McCauley is an awful singer to replace the pipes of Jimi Jameson. However....Survivor's nothing more than a footnote these days. So who the hell is going to care whether or not they violate their past with the misguided replacement of a very different voice.

As for Beth by Carr....you can make an argument that ANYONE resinging the original Peter Criss song is such a vast improvement over the original, that it's impossible not to see. Eric Carr had an awful singing voice...and his live versions of Black Diamond were so much better than anything Peter Criss crapped, er sung on. You can make the same blanket statements on the imrpovement of general time-keeping within Kiss when Criss left and Carr replaced him. Carr was 1 billion times the drummer Criss was in his wildest dreams.