MR

You know, six years ago I did my interview with Herbie Herbert. My motive, whether it came through or not, was to sway people to realize that the Augeri-voiced Journey was valid. The members of Journey could not be faulted for wanting to continue on, even if that meant getting rid of their most popular and recognizeable member. Plus, they had replaced Steve Perry and Steve Smith with two guys who were committed to giving their all to help rekindle the legacy that the band had built so long ago.

During 1998 - 2005, I saw Journey 10 times - with each show being better than the last. The 30-year anniversary tour was a lifelong fan's dream, during which I got to hear music from every incarnation of the band. I wasn't looking forward to the Def Leppard/Journey tour, because I knew I wouldn't get to hear nearly the selection that had been played the tour before. Then, when word started to surface about pre-recorded vocals being piped in to mask Augeri's performance, and his subsequent dismissal from the band, I couldn't get behind the idea of seeing Journey on that tour.

Here's my point: I felt like the band was loyal to Steve Perry. From 1987 to 1995, they waited for him to hop back on the bus and get the Journey going again. When he finally did, they saw him refusing to commit to touring again due to his medical issues, and probably had a flashback at that point to how long they had to wait before. It seemed like it was out of desperation that they finally gave up on him.

But they never showed that kind of loyalty to Steve Augeri. They knew he was having problems with his voice. They made adjustments to their set, having Deen sing some of the songs, changing from the predictable format by having other band members sing. How much of that would've been necessary if they had just taken some time off? They were so eager to "make hay while the sun shines," that rather than allowing Augeri to address his medical issues, they just kept signing up for that next tour - knowing they could make Augeri sound however they wanted him to sound whether he was healthy or not. Had the band at least acknowledged his condition and taken some time off for once, they would've avoided all the embarassment of having that scandal go public - and the ensuing fan animosity.

Steve Augeri got shafted, worse than Steve Perry. He took the fall for the band over the whole tapegate thing. His personal integrity was ridiculed. It is impossible for me to believe that Neal "didn't know" what was going on. And, since it seems like we will be lucky to ever hear from Steve Augeri again, I feel the most effective way of showing support for him is to not spend our money on future Journey tours, unless they feature the original lineup.

Oh get over it for fuck's sake...

They all knew,everyone of them. Its all about the money nothing else.I was going to give it a chance with Jeff putting out new materail. Once they fucked him over to, that did it for me.

Even Brian May noted that there was a strange vibe between Steve A. and the rest of the guys, which is a shame. He really seemed to be having a great time at the Vegas show (2001 DVD), and put on a heck of a performance -- a really good frontman with a lot of class. I'm doubting any future singer will feel a real bond with them, but I'm still looking forward to hearing more music and seeing them in concert.

Also, I'm still kicking myself for missing my only chance to see them live w/Augeri. Had free tickets to a show here, and gave them away (this was probably 7 years ago. "Arrival" had just come out, and I wasn't that excited. Yes, still kicking myself for doing that.

Matt, don't listen to Matt.

stevew2 wrote:They all knew,everyone of them. Its all about the money nothing else.I was going to give it a chance with Jeff putting out new materail. Once they fucked him over to, that did it for me.

So - according to your logic here - Augeri knew the band were deceiving the fans and he too was motivated solely by money. Yet he is the blameless lamb in this scenario and the others are worthy of being burned at the stake...

How long do you think Journey should have waited for Augeri to recover? And what about the possibility that the band knew last year that he wouldn't recover enough to pull off a major tour ever again?

Rick wrote:Matt, don't listen to Matt.

I can't believe I got sucked into this thread....must stop arguing with Augerios....must try harder.....

livin2do wrote:They were so eager to "make hay while the sun shines," that rather than allowing Augeri to address his medical issues, they just kept signing up for that next tour -

You get that when one bandmember keeps you in friggin mothballs for a decade in what should've been an extension of your prime and sets up to do it again. Of course they had to work.

Rick wrote:Matt, don't listen to Matt.

Matthew wrote:

Rick wrote:Matt, don't listen to Matt.

I can't believe I got sucked into this thread....must stop arguing with Augerios....must try harder.....

The OP is Matt Carty, he did the Castles Burning interview with HH. He's credible.

Rick wrote:

Matthew wrote:

Rick wrote:Matt, don't listen to Matt.

I can't believe I got sucked into this thread....must stop arguing with Augerios....must try harder.....

The OP is Matt Carty, he did the Castles Burning interview with HH. He's credible.

Oh...that posionous bilefest that has virtually been the reference source for every two-bit Perry basher ever since?

Red13JoePa wrote:

livin2do wrote:They were so eager to "make hay while the sun shines," that rather than allowing Augeri to address his medical issues, they just kept signing up for that next tour -

You get that when one bandmember keeps you in friggin mothballs for a decade in what should've been an extension of your prime and sets up to do it again. Of course they had to work.

An extension of the prime? Journey 's prime was fading fast even in the mid-80s...and was probably one of the key reasons for Perry feeling that the band needed to be moth-balled....so I don't know where you get this idea of the lost, glittering decade which Perry supposedly stole from us, Red.

Matthew wrote:

Rick wrote:

Matthew wrote:

Rick wrote:Matt, don't listen to Matt.

I can't believe I got sucked into this thread....must stop arguing with Augerios....must try harder.....

The OP is Matt Carty, he did the Castles Burning interview with HH. He's credible.

Oh...that posionous bilefest that has virtually been the reference source for every two-bit Perry basher ever since?

He was a little bitter.

They should have took 2005 off ,it was clear his voice was ragged at the end of 2004. The next year they the do a three hour concert, where he doesnt sing until about 60 minutes into the first set {fucked his warm up routine} Then they book 2006 with no voice. Again if they took 2005 off, he could have recovered{I think Neal didnt want him in the band anyway} They took this summer off anyway,what would it mattered if it was 2005 or 2007

this was in response to Matthew

From a $-making standpoint, THAT was the point Matto.

Haven't talked to you in 3 1/2 months and this way you're coming at me?

RipRokken wrote:Even Brian May noted that there was a strange vibe between Steve A. and the rest of the guys, which is a shame. He really seemed to be having a great time at the Vegas show (2001 DVD), and put on a heck of a performance -- a really good frontman with a lot of class. I'm doubting any future singer will feel a real bond with them, but I'm still looking forward to hearing more music and seeing them in concert.

Also, I'm still kicking myself for missing my only chance to see them live w/Augeri. Had free tickets to a show here, and gave them away (this was probably 7 years ago. "Arrival" had just come out, and I wasn't that excited. Yes, still kicking myself for doing that.

Regarding that DVD- I noticed that Neal would kind of stay away from him. Did anybody else notice that? Steve would move over by Neal, and instead of smiling, Neal would kind of look the other way...

bummer.

It would not take a year for Steve's voice to recover. It would take a few months and a more spaced out show calendar. ALL of the stuff could most likely been avoided.

stevew2 wrote:They should have took 2005 off ,it was clear his voice was ragged at the end of 2004. The next year they the do a three hour concert, where he doesnt sing until about 60 minutes into the first set {fucked his warm up routine} Then they book 2006 with no voice. Again if they took 2005 off, he could have recovered{I think Neal didnt want him in the band anyway} They took this summer off anyway,what would it mattered if it was 2005 or 2007

Or Augeri could have taken care of his own 'instrument' and indeed his integrity by refusing to tour. All he needed was a doctor's note and the dread lawyers of the Azoff organisation would have been powerless....

Matthew wrote:

stevew2 wrote:They should have took 2005 off ,it was clear his voice was ragged at the end of 2004. The next year they the do a three hour concert, where he doesnt sing until about 60 minutes into the first set {fucked his warm up routine} Then they book 2006 with no voice. Again if they took 2005 off, he could have recovered{I think Neal didnt want him in the band anyway} They took this summer off anyway,what would it mattered if it was 2005 or 2007

Or Augeri could have taken care of his own 'instrument' and indeed his integrity by refusing to tour. All he needed was a doctor's note and the dread lawyers of the Azoff organisation would have been powerless....

I dont beleive that Matthew,Id like to see his contract

Red13JoePa wrote:From a $-making standpoint, THAT was the point Matto.

Haven't talked to you in 3 1/2 months and this way you're coming at me?

Except Journey made an absolute ton of money during that period from HH's efforts re: the back catalogue...

Sorry Red...wasn't meaning to be hostile...just the usual banter...

stevew2 wrote:

Matthew wrote:

stevew2 wrote:They should have took 2005 off ,it was clear his voice was ragged at the end of 2004. The next year they the do a three hour concert, where he doesnt sing until about 60 minutes into the first set {fucked his warm up routine} Then they book 2006 with no voice. Again if they took 2005 off, he could have recovered{I think Neal didnt want him in the band anyway} They took this summer off anyway,what would it mattered if it was 2005 or 2007

Or Augeri could have taken care of his own 'instrument' and indeed his integrity by refusing to tour. All he needed was a doctor's note and the dread lawyers of the Azoff organisation would have been powerless....

I dont beleive that Matthew,Id like to see his contract

Agreed. I think that he was committed to it and there was no room to take a break. Ever been the guy on the team that everyone depends on and you've got problems? The pressure to perform is pretty heavy.

stevew2 wrote:

Matthew wrote:

stevew2 wrote:They should have took 2005 off ,it was clear his voice was ragged at the end of 2004. The next year they the do a three hour concert, where he doesnt sing until about 60 minutes into the first set {fucked his warm up routine} Then they book 2006 with no voice. Again if they took 2005 off, he could have recovered{I think Neal didnt want him in the band anyway} They took this summer off anyway,what would it mattered if it was 2005 or 2007

Or Augeri could have taken care of his own 'instrument' and indeed his integrity by refusing to tour. All he needed was a doctor's note and the dread lawyers of the Azoff organisation would have been powerless....

I dont beleive that Matthew,Id like to see his contract

Obviously I haven't seen it either...but I can't believe that a professional musician who gets medical backing for a decision not to defraud a paying audience would be vulnerable to Journey's lawyers.

Sure - after he signed the deals with the promoters then a medical certificate might not have protected him from those promoters if the condition was known about before the contract was signed. But before he signed them? There was nothing anyone could do to make Augeri go on stage if he didn't want to.

brywool wrote:

stevew2 wrote:

Matthew wrote:

stevew2 wrote:They should have took 2005 off ,it was clear his voice was ragged at the end of 2004. The next year they the do a three hour concert, where he doesnt sing until about 60 minutes into the first set {fucked his warm up routine} Then they book 2006 with no voice. Again if they took 2005 off, he could have recovered{I think Neal didnt want him in the band anyway} They took this summer off anyway,what would it mattered if it was 2005 or 2007

Or Augeri could have taken care of his own 'instrument' and indeed his integrity by refusing to tour. All he needed was a doctor's note and the dread lawyers of the Azoff organisation would have been powerless....

I dont beleive that Matthew,Id like to see his contract

Agreed. I think that he was committed to it and there was no room to take a break. Ever been the guy on the team that everyone depends on and you've got problems? The pressure to perform is pretty heavy.

Yes I have, Brywool - and I pressed on doing things I shouldn't have done to keep myself going and it all bit me in the arse. And having people perceive me as a blameless victim afterwards didn't help my recovery one bit....

Matthew wrote:Sorry Red...wasn't meaning to be hostile...just the usual banter...

Bah....just busting your, er... whatever.

livin2do wrote:You know, six years ago I did my interview with Herbie Herbert.

hey bub, wouldnt it be great if you could get a second interview from him about the LAST six years.. i bet that would be some good stuff... ....wonder if herbie has had any contact with SA?

I always wondered why everyone was blaming only Augeri on the tapegate thing. I was shocked over the amount of people "in the know" purporting that the other band members new nothing about it. I'm no techie but that sure seemed odd. Schon and Cain especially. They seem the type that know and control everything the band does, down to when band members are to go to the men's room.

I was at a few of the concerts where he may of had "help." Bottom line though, I enjoyed the concerts. I wish I wouldn't have found that fact out though. Knowing he had help kind of sucks, but at least I enjoyed the moment.

Yup, he was a scapegoat. But now, we move on.

My best assumption would be that it was what a lot of people have said....the $$$$$. They figured they would continue to sign the contracts and get paid regardless to what the situation was because nobody had called them out yet on using tapes. Once that came out, it was like "Oh Sh*t, we've been caught," and then they had to move on. And obviously, it isn't right, but it is a whole lot easier for the rest of the band to claim they didn't know anything and live to see another day, while SA [who certainly should take his share of the blame] is left holding bag.

Either way, all those bashing Augeri during tapegate probably never liked the guy from day one since it wasn't Perry, so it just gives them ammunition to use when they attack him. But, what the hell do I know?

livin2do wrote:You know, six years ago I did my interview with Herbie Herbert. My motive, whether it came through or not, was to sway people to realize that the Augeri-voiced Journey was valid. The members of Journey could not be faulted for wanting to continue on, even if that meant getting rid of their most popular and recognizeable member. Plus, they had replaced Steve Perry and Steve Smith with two guys who were committed to giving their all to help rekindle the legacy that the band had built so long ago.

During 1998 - 2005, I saw Journey 10 times - with each show being better than the last. The 30-year anniversary tour was a lifelong fan's dream, during which I got to hear music from every incarnation of the band. I wasn't looking forward to the Def Leppard/Journey tour, because I knew I wouldn't get to hear nearly the selection that had been played the tour before. Then, when word started to surface about pre-recorded vocals being piped in to mask Augeri's performance, and his subsequent dismissal from the band, I couldn't get behind the idea of seeing Journey on that tour.

Here's my point: I felt like the band was loyal to Steve Perry. From 1987 to 1995, they waited for him to hop back on the bus and get the Journey going again. When he finally did, they saw him refusing to commit to touring again due to his medical issues, and probably had a flashback at that point to how long they had to wait before. It seemed like it was out of desperation that they finally gave up on him.

But they never showed that kind of loyalty to Steve Augeri. They knew he was having problems with his voice. They made adjustments to their set, having Deen sing some of the songs, changing from the predictable format by having other band members sing. How much of that would've been necessary if they had just taken some time off? They were so eager to "make hay while the sun shines," that rather than allowing Augeri to address his medical issues, they just kept signing up for that next tour - knowing they could make Augeri sound however they wanted him to sound whether he was healthy or not. Had the band at least acknowledged his condition and taken some time off for once, they would've avoided all the embarassment of having that scandal go public - and the ensuing fan animosity.

Steve Augeri got shafted, worse than Steve Perry. He took the fall for the band over the whole tapegate thing. His personal integrity was ridiculed. It is impossible for me to believe that Neal "didn't know" what was going on. And, since it seems like we will be lucky to ever hear from Steve Augeri again, I feel the most effective way of showing support for him is to not spend our money on future Journey tours, unless they feature the original lineup.

I'm with ya. They lost me when they tossed JSS over the side. I knew Steve's voice was rough on the Generations tour, but I had no knowledge of what was going on behind the scenes.

marco17 wrote: it is a whole lot easier for the rest of the band to claim they didn't know anything and live to see another day, while SA [who certainly should take his share of the blame] is left holding bag.

Except Journey didn't leave him carrying anything. They denied it happened and tried to protect Augeri's reputation by saying he had a throat infection. They have never once blamed him and even issued a joint press release when he left.

Either way, all those bashing Augeri during tapegate probably never liked the guy from day one since it wasn't Perry, so it just gives them ammunition to use when they attack him. But, what the hell do I know?

That's certainly true of me...but the people who busted Augeri last year were his staunchest supporters in previous years.

Matthew wrote:

Red13JoePa wrote:From a $-making standpoint, THAT was the point Matto.

Haven't talked to you in 3 1/2 months and this way you're coming at me?

Except Journey made an absolute ton of money during that period from HH's efforts re: the back catalogue...

Doesn't matter how much money they made off the back catalogue. Anyone can spend any amount of money, no matter how large. Between Neal's multiple alimony payments across god knows how many wives, and Ross's reported nose candy problems, apparently, they needed to get back to work.

Matthew wrote:
Except Journey didn't leave him carrying anything. They denied it happened and tried to protect Augeri's reputation by saying he had a throat infection. They have never once blamed him and even issued a joint press release when he left.

Not a popular thing to point out, but RIGHT on the noise.