MR

Every time a big band like Journey changes their lead singer, there is always a huge controversy. Take Van Halen for example. When Sammy Hagar took over on lead vocals in the mid-80's, all of the diehard David Lee Roth fans hated Sammy and his fans. To this day they are still posting hate-filled messages on forums, calling Sammy all kinds of names, saying he was fat, saying he was gay, photochopping Sammy's head with Bette Midler's face, etc.

The same thing happened when Journey replaced Steve Perry with Steve Augeri. Many diehard Steve Perry fans became angered at all of the new Steve Augeri fans boasting about how great he was. This caused a huge conflict among Journey fans that went on for several years. Then Jeff Scott Soto took over lead vocals, and another controversy started. All of the Augeri fans were upset, and the JSS fans were happy.

Now we enter 2008 with another recent lead singer change for Journey. Already, the Internet forums and YouTube comments are filling up with conflicts regarding this new lead singer. The over-zealous fans of Arnel are posting comments such as "Arnel is much better than Steve Perry" and "Arnel has a much higher range than Steve Perry". All this does is cause conflict among the Perry, Augeri, and JSS fans. Not to mention the racist jabs that people are throwing back at the Arnel fans when they post such provoking comments.

I guess the conflict and controversy will always surround a lead singer change. It just happens to be a regular event for Journey fans.

When Sammy Hagar took over on lead vocals in the mid-80's, all of the diehard David Lee Roth fans hated Sammy and his fans. They posted hate-filled messages on forums, calling Sammy all kinds of names, saying he was fat, saying he was gay, photochopping Sammy's head with Bette Midler's face, etc.

I thought Sammy was a good choice. DaveTV wanted solo spotlight. But forums in the mid-80s? Man we're talking BBS days, when talking on Bulletin Board System would cost one more cash than today since the Web wasn't world-wide at the time.
Man, did people do that on a Commodore 64?

JC wrote:Every time a big band like Journey changes their lead singer, there is always a huge controversy. Take Van Halen for example. When Sammy Hagar took over on lead vocals in the mid-80's, all of the diehard David Lee Roth fans hated Sammy and his fans. They posted hate-filled messages on forums, calling Sammy all kinds of names, saying he was fat, saying he was gay, photochopping Sammy's head with Bette Midler's face, etc.

The same thing happened when Journey replaced Steve Perry with Steve Augeri. Many diehard Steve Perry fans became angered at all of the new Steve Augeri fans boasting about how great he was. This caused a huge conflict among Journey fans that went on for several years. Then Jeff Scott Soto took over lead vocals, and another controversy started. All of the Augeri fans were upset, and the JSS fans were happy.

Now we enter 2008 with another recent lead singer change for Journey. Already, the Internet forums and YouTube comments are filling up with conflicts regarding this new lead singer. The over-zealous fans of Arnel are posting comments such as "Arnel is much better than Steve Perry" and "Arnel has a much higher range than Steve Perry". All this does is cause conflict among the Perry, Augeri, and JSS fans. Not to mention the racist jabs that people are throwing back at the Arnel fans when they post such provoking comments.

I guess the conflict and controversy will always surround a lead singer change. It just happens to be a regular event for Journey fans.

There is no question that changing a lead singer is ALWAYS going to generate a controversy. That said, I don't think the Journey situation is analogous to the Van Halen situation, for a variety of reasons. First and foremost, Van Halen's most commercially successful album, of all time, was "5150", which was their very first release, with Sammy Hagar at the helm. That reason alone, makes it a VERY different situation. Van Halen is one of VERY few bands who has changed lead singers and remained VERY relevant! The other important point here is that changing lead singers for Journey seems to be a regular occurrence. I think the other glaring difference between the two bands were the two guys who were replaced. I don't know a lot of people (including Roth fans) who think Roth was a better singer than Hagar was. Roth was always much more of a performer (and a great one) than a singer. I personally thought Sammy Hagar was a MUCH better vocalist than Roth ever was (and for the record, I'm a fan of the band with both guys). Then we move on to Journey...Does anyone (aside from the wiggle wack jobs from jackass talk) genuinely think that Augeri, Jeff, or Arnel are better singers than Perry? I would say that very few people have ever believed that replacing Perry was an upgrade, while there are more than a few who thought Hagar was an upgrade!


John from Boston

ttango1 wrote:

When Sammy Hagar took over on lead vocals in the mid-80's, all of the diehard David Lee Roth fans hated Sammy and his fans. They posted hate-filled messages on forums, calling Sammy all kinds of names, saying he was fat, saying he was gay, photochopping Sammy's head with Bette Midler's face, etc.

I thought Sammy was a good choice. DaveTV wanted solo spotlight. But forums in the mid-80s? Man we're talking BBS days, when talking on Bulletin Board System would cost one more cash than today since the Web wasn't world-wide at the time.
Man, did people do that on a Commodore 64?

I guess I should have said more correctly that Internet forums and message boards are still currently hosting Sammy vs. Dave wars. Back in the day there were no such things.

ttango1 wrote:

When Sammy Hagar took over on lead vocals in the mid-80's, all of the diehard David Lee Roth fans hated Sammy and his fans. They posted hate-filled messages on forums, calling Sammy all kinds of names, saying he was fat, saying he was gay, photochopping Sammy's head with Bette Midler's face, etc.

I thought Sammy was a good choice. DaveTV wanted solo spotlight. But forums in the mid-80s? Man we're talking BBS days, when talking on Bulletin Board System would cost one more cash than today since the Web wasn't world-wide at the time.
Man, did people do that on a Commodore 64?

THey had a big ass etch in sketch outside their recording studio in them days, you had to wait in line for hours and hours to turn the knobs and post a message.

BTW - Nobody knew if it was actually Sammy Hagars head superimposed on Bette Midler- them etch in sketch picutes dont always turn out so good (and everybody would get so blind drunk waiting in line they couldnt really draw straight)- might have been Cyndyee Lauper or Martha Davis (Motels lead singer )

Voyager wrote:Every time a big band like Journey changes their lead singer, there is always a huge controversy. Take Van Halen for example. When Sammy Hagar took over on lead vocals in the mid-80's, all of the diehard David Lee Roth fans hated Sammy and his fans. They posted hate-filled messages on forums, calling Sammy all kinds of names, saying he was fat, saying he was gay, photochopping Sammy's head with Bette Midler's face, etc.

How were fans posting hate-filled message about Sammy Hagar on forums back in 1985? The internet wasn't released for public consumption until the mid-90's.

Enigma869 wrote:[Then we move on to Journey...Does anyone (aside from the wiggle wack jobs from jackass talk) genuinely think that Augeri, Jeff, or Arnel are better singers than Perry? I would say that very few people have ever believed that replacing Perry was an upgrade, while there are more than a few who thought Hagar was an upgrade!

Stangely, there apparently are people who believe Arnel is an upgrade from Steve Perry. One look at the YouTube comments of Arnel's videos says it all.

Greg wrote:How were fans posting hate-filled message about Sammy Hagar on forums back in 1985? The internet wasn't released for public consumption until the mid-90's.

I already answered that question. Don't let one line of my post detour you from the topic. I'll just go back and delete it. Sheesh!

Voyager wrote:

Enigma869 wrote:[Then we move on to Journey...Does anyone (aside from the wiggle wack jobs from jackass talk) genuinely think that Augeri, Jeff, or Arnel are better singers than Perry? I would say that very few people have ever believed that replacing Perry was an upgrade, while there are more than a few who thought Hagar was an upgrade!

Stangely, there apparently are people who believe Arnel is an upgrade from Steve Perry. One look at the YouTube comments of Arnel's videos says it all.

that's insane!! many have lobbied against Perry and his contribution. let those that think Pineda is an upgrade be given a history lesson of the back catalogue and that 'legacy' sound Cain is after... geez

Greg wrote:

Voyager wrote:Every time a big band like Journey changes their lead singer, there is always a huge controversy. Take Van Halen for example. When Sammy Hagar took over on lead vocals in the mid-80's, all of the diehard David Lee Roth fans hated Sammy and his fans. They posted hate-filled messages on forums, calling Sammy all kinds of names, saying he was fat, saying he was gay, photochopping Sammy's head with Bette Midler's face, etc.

How were fans posting hate-filled message about Sammy Hagar on forums back in 1985? The internet wasn't released for public consumption until the mid-90's.

huh? B.B.S. Systems. You dial up, via modem, download messages, post your replies, and hang up. Most systems could only handle 1 caller at a time. Hence the busy signals. Apple, Atari 8bit, C64, Vic 20, TI99a... ahh...memories. lol...

Enigma869 wrote:Van Halen is one of VERY few bands who has changed lead singers and remained VERY relevant!

Exactly. Successful bands which change up lead singers and remain successful, or even top their prior efforts are the big exception to the rule. I've always said you simply can't change singers and expect the same response/success. And there will always be the rare exception, yes... and Van Halen is one of them... Journey, like most bands, couldn't pull it off... they had their die hard run with Augeri and would have with JSS, but they never saw the level they had with Perry and like it or not, they aren't going to again. They're a greatest hits act now. Nothing more.

Beside the singer problem, the writing isn't there. I know Cain jacks off to "Faithfully" every morning in the shower, but that was his only golden moment and it was 25 years ago. What's he done by himself since then that anyone cares about? Schon and Cain together... yeah alright, give that a try. Something will always be missing. Scooby snack to the first correct guesser.

bluejeangirl76 wrote: Something will always be missing. Scooby snack to the first correct guesser.

hmmmmm, can't imagine

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

Enigma869 wrote:Van Halen is one of VERY few bands who has changed lead singers and remained VERY relevant!

Exactly. Successful bands which change up lead singers and remain successful, or even top their prior efforts are the big exception to the rule. I've always said you simply can't change singers and expect the same response/success. And there will always be the rare exception, yes... and Van Halen is one of them... Journey, like most bands, couldn't pull it off... they had their die hard run with Augeri and would have with JSS, but they never saw the level they had with Perry and like it or not, they aren't going to again. They're a greatest hits act now. Nothing more.

Beside the singer problem, the writing isn't there. I know Cain jacks off to "Faithfully" every morning in the shower, but that was his only golden moment and it was 25 years ago. What's he done by himself since then that anyone cares about? Schon and Cain together... yeah alright, give that a try. Something will always be missing. Scooby snack to the first correct guesser.

Well evidently we're not getting that missing ingredient back. I love the sig btw.

Can I try a guess?

Voyager wrote:
Stangely, there apparently are people who believe Arnel is an upgrade from Steve Perry. One look at the YouTube comments of Arnel's videos says it all.

Here is my response to ANYONE who seriously thinks that Arnel is an upgrade over Perry....

Anyone who truly believes that is a dope! Listen, Schon and Cain are now all of a sudden obsessed with their "legacy" and the sound of that legacy. Well, let me give all the Arnel fans a tip...the sound of the Journey legacy has a name, and its name is Stephen Fucking Perry!!!!! As I've already posted here, I personally think Arnel has a VERY strong voice. I think his voice is FAR better suited to Journey material than Augeri's or Soto's was (although I still love Soto's version of "Send Her My Love"). That said, the guy needs to work on commanding a stage and better make damn sure that he respects the legacy (Perry) of Journey. I've seen a couple of public comments by the guy that don't paint the guy as the sharpest tool in the shed! Schon and Cain both know that they can't have Perry back, so they are going to make damn sure to find someone as close to the Perry sound as humanly possible.

In spite of Neal's claims that he doesn't bother with the internet, he CLEARLY pays attention to what is being said about Journey on the net. There were a lot of people bitching about Journey not sounding like Journey, and he was obviously sensitive to that sentiment. Before you know it, the guy who doesn't bother with the internet is surfing the net, looking for his next singer to hire! Think about it...The guy was on youtube, and I guarantee you that he was only looking at Journey's classic catalog of songs, performed by ANYONE, who sounded ANYTHING at all like Perry! Shit...he might have called me if I had uploaded a video In spite of all the criticism Neal has gotten here, and in many other places, I honestly don't fault the guy for the decision he made, from a business standpoint. These guys CLEARLY know that Perry's voice was their meal-ticket, and if they can't have Perry's voice, they have to go out there and find themselves a guy who sounds something like Perry sounded! Now, as far as how he and the band handled the dismissal of Jeff, that is an entirely different issue.


John from Boston

Check out these posts from forums and YouTube comments regarding Arnel:

"I like this guy better than Steve Perry!"

"..... wow, great singer! better than steve perry...."

"Arnel "The Voice" Pineda is better than Steve Perry. All of Asia already knows this. Perry paved the road for The Voice of Arnel."

If this kind of stuff doesn't provoke diehard Journey/Steve Perry fans to wrath, I don't know what will.

Voyager wrote:Check out these posts from forums and YouTube comments regarding Arnel:

"I like this guy better than Steve Perry!"

"..... wow, great singer! better than steve perry...."

"Arnel "The Voice" Pineda is better than Steve Perry. All of Asia already knows this. Perry paved the road for The Voice of Arnel."

If this kind of stuff doesn't provoke diehard Journey/Steve Perry fans to wrath, I don't know what will.

to funny I look at it like like..."oh and they think this guy is better then Steve P"wow they'll buy anything ..no wonder neils going there...

texafana wrote:

Greg wrote:

Voyager wrote:Every time a big band like Journey changes their lead singer, there is always a huge controversy. Take Van Halen for example. When Sammy Hagar took over on lead vocals in the mid-80's, all of the diehard David Lee Roth fans hated Sammy and his fans. They posted hate-filled messages on forums, calling Sammy all kinds of names, saying he was fat, saying he was gay, photochopping Sammy's head with Bette Midler's face, etc.

How were fans posting hate-filled message about Sammy Hagar on forums back in 1985? The internet wasn't released for public consumption until the mid-90's.

huh? B.B.S. Systems. You dial up, via modem, download messages, post your replies, and hang up. Most systems could only handle 1 caller at a time. Hence the busy signals. Apple, Atari 8bit, C64, Vic 20, TI99a... ahh...memories. lol...

We never had that technology in my area during the 80's that I am aware of. I have heard of it before (being a computer geek ya know..lol.)

Voyager wrote:Check out these posts from forums and YouTube comments regarding Arnel:

"I like this guy better than Steve Perry!"

"..... wow, great singer! better than steve perry...."

"Arnel "The Voice" Pineda is better than Steve Perry. All of Asia already knows this. Perry paved the road for The Voice of Arnel."

Yeah? All that proves is that Arnel, Cain and Schon all have YouTube accounts.

photochopping Sammy's head with Bette Midler's face

That made me laugh out loud!

Now, the VH situation is quite different than the Journey one.

Sammy Hagar was a well established quite good lead singer with a fan base of his own. In Journey's case, they replaced the greatest voice of a male singer ever. I feel for Steve Augeri having to follow Espee. Now the fans who did say Augeri was better than Perry were just a big joke. NO ONE can say that with a straight face. Perhaps they were just happy the band was able to continue on. Those folks were Backtalkers who never saw Steve Perry or read the negative words out of Schonny's hole. Those people are sheep. They follw. They cannot think for themselves. Of course there are exceptions...they came over here and have blended nicely. Maui Tom, Tom Journey fan, Ken the Mirror Dude, Maria, and of course SteveW. (I take credit for putting balls in his crotch) Anyway, if someone dares say that Arnel is better than Perry should just be axed immediately. There is no objectivity in that statement. it was said to ruffle feathers. Same goes with Augeri. People who I am good friends with, like Red13JoePa, thinks SA mops the floor with SP. He just is dimwitted I think. Anyway, when you have the world's best singer who ever walked onstage, there really shouldn't be a controversy.

Steve Perry, where are you?

Rockindeano wrote:Steve Perry, where are you?

If he's got half the sense of humor he appears to have, he's sitting on YouTube posting things like "Arnel is better than Steve Perry" just so he can watch people like us straight up implode.

I saw Steve four times in the 80's and he was, next to Freddie Mercury, the greatest frontman/singer in history.

Now, if Journey was overly concerned with the "legacy" sound they would have not have let go of Jeremey (who was, is, and always will be the best man for the job). Jeremey made the mistake of being a wonderful, stand-up guy who put his family above all else. With Arnel, they can simply steamroll the guy however, wherever, and whenever they please.

Maybe they can use a SP hologram on the stage when they fire Arnel next July and just pipe in Hugo's voice...although I do think the Houston footage would be a mistake and a giveaway, since he was going for that bumblebee look back then. And when Deen forgets to preface - and end - every statement made to Neal or Cain with the word "sir"...sometime in 2009, I figure...they can use a drum kit or hire Lars Ulrich.

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

Rockindeano wrote:Steve Perry, where are you?

If he's got half the sense of humor he appears to have, he's sitting on YouTube posting things like "Arnel is better than Steve Perry" just so he can watch people like us straight up implode.

I just called someone on YouTube delusional for saying that very thing. I don't understand how anyone could possibly think that.

Voyager wrote: photochopping Sammy's head with Bette Midler's face, etc.

That's a funny picture.

At least he sings better than Ms "it must have been cold there in my shadow".

Arnel has a nice voice, but NO WAY is he better than Perry!!

Journey should retire. Unfortunately, they must not be able to and they shame the name wiith their well thought out plans. What is next in 2008 ?

Rick wrote:

bluejeangirl76 wrote:

Rockindeano wrote:Steve Perry, where are you?

If he's got half the sense of humor he appears to have, he's sitting on YouTube posting things like "Arnel is better than Steve Perry" just so he can watch people like us straight up implode.

I just called someone on YouTube delusional for saying that very thing. I don't understand how anyone could possibly think that.

Well, when *I* said it, it was a joke.