MR

I apologize in advance if this has been discussed long ago when Red 13 was origninally released, but this got me thinking.

There's a lot of talk and consensus that many people liked the potential new direction the Jeff could have taken Journey vocally and with their overall sound. However that said, Red 13 was more experimental, which I think lent itself more to Augeri's vocal style prior to Journey, and was their attempt at the time to move in a different direction musically, but failed in the eye of their fans, especially diehard fans. Personally, as a stand alone EP I didn't mind it, and thought it had its moments, but yes, does not sound like the Journey the world knows and loves. Do you believe that because Red 13 fell flat that this is why the band is so hesitant to move forward beyond the "classic" sound, and instead of being daring and moving forward with a guy like Jeff, they chose to once again hire Arnel, who while not a clone, but can pull off a decent Perry impression?

marco17 wrote:I apologize in advance if this has been discussed long ago when Red 13 was origninally released, but this got me thinking.

There's a lot of talk and consensus that many people liked the potential new direction the Jeff could have taken Journey vocally and with their overall sound. However that said, Red 13 was more experimental, which I think lent itself more to Augeri's vocal style prior to Journey, and was their attempt at the time to move in a different direction musically, but failed in the eye of their fans, especially diehard fans. Personally, as a stand alone EP I didn't mind it, and thought it had its moments, but yes, does not sound like the Journey the world knows and loves. Do you believe that because Red 13 fell flat that this is why the band is so hesitant to move forward beyond the "classic" sound, and instead of being daring and moving forward with a guy like Jeff, they chose to once again hire Arnel, who while not a clone, but can pull off a decent Perry impression?

Personally R13 flopped with me because of sound quality was awful, it took a VERY long time for me to give it a chance, and eventually like it.

I agree that the production of Red13 killed any chances of acceptance from the fans.

I also agree that the unacceptance of Red13 made the band think twice about changing direction.

I think that is a huge shame, that the fans ultimately swayed the band from their desires. A band should do what they feel like doing and HOPE the fans follow...not do what the fans expect so that they WILL follow. But that is the difference between an artistic outlet and a financial one...

marco17 wrote:I apologize in advance if this has been discussed long ago when Red 13 was origninally released, but this got me thinking.

There's a lot of talk and consensus that many people liked the potential new direction the Jeff could have taken Journey vocally and with their overall sound. However that said, Red 13 was more experimental, which I think lent itself more to Augeri's vocal style prior to Journey, and was their attempt at the time to move in a different direction musically, but failed in the eye of their fans, especially diehard fans. Personally, as a stand alone EP I didn't mind it, and thought it had its moments, but yes, does not sound like the Journey the world knows and loves. Do you believe that because Red 13 fell flat that this is why the band is so hesitant to move forward beyond the "classic" sound, and instead of being daring and moving forward with a guy like Jeff, they chose to once again hire Arnel, who while not a clone, but can pull off a decent Perry impression?

I don't think it had anything to do with Red13. They recorded that, then toured for years after ,singing the "Dirty dozen". I think they tried to venture out again, and saw that fans didn't like the experimental Generations album. After the whole thing blew up over Steve's Lipping, they shoved him out the door. Neal being "Friends" with Jeff, knew Jeff could pull off the material in short notice (which saved their asses by not having to cancel on Def Leppard) and was probably thinking things could work out between Jeff and Journey. After announcing that they would be working on an album and going in a new direction, I think the following happened...

I think Neal and Jonathan had a serious pow-wow, and realized "wait a minute, we're pushing retirement age here. Why should we try to risk our last two or three years of touring on new uncharted territory, when the last two albums we did that with didn't succeed?". I personally think that Jeff was pushing for the "New direction" of the band, but the band decided to go back to where the money is. From a financial standpoint, I think they made the right decision. I think the way they handled it sucks ass.

That's my three or four cents for the day!

G.I.Jim wrote:

marco17 wrote:I apologize in advance if this has been discussed long ago when Red 13 was origninally released, but this got me thinking.

There's a lot of talk and consensus that many people liked the potential new direction the Jeff could have taken Journey vocally and with their overall sound. However that said, Red 13 was more experimental, which I think lent itself more to Augeri's vocal style prior to Journey, and was their attempt at the time to move in a different direction musically, but failed in the eye of their fans, especially diehard fans. Personally, as a stand alone EP I didn't mind it, and thought it had its moments, but yes, does not sound like the Journey the world knows and loves. Do you believe that because Red 13 fell flat that this is why the band is so hesitant to move forward beyond the "classic" sound, and instead of being daring and moving forward with a guy like Jeff, they chose to once again hire Arnel, who while not a clone, but can pull off a decent Perry impression?

I don't think it had anything to do with Red13. They recorded that, then toured for years after ,singing the "Dirty dozen". I think they tried to venture out again, and saw that fans didn't like the experimental Generations album. After the whole thing blew up over Steve's Lipping, they shoved him out the door. Neal being "Friends" with Jeff, knew Jeff could pull off the material in short notice (which saved their asses by not having to cancel on Def Leppard) and was probably thinking things could work out between Jeff and Journey. After announcing that they would be working on an album and going in a new direction, I think the following happened...

I think Neal and Jonathan had a serious pow-wow, and realized "wait a minute, we're pushing retirement age here. Why should we try to risk our last two or three years of touring on new uncharted territory, when the last two albums we did that with didn't succeed?". I personally think that Jeff was pushing for the "New direction" of the band, but the band decided to go back to where the money is. From a financial standpoint, I think they made the right decision. I think the way they handled it sucks ass.

That's my three or four cents for the day!

You make it all make too much sense, brother.

I'm saddened that Journey didn't keep going in the new direction they started with Red 13/Generations, and that Generations had too much filler.

I felt Journey going into a pseudo-progressive harder-rocking spacey melodic rock phase and was loving every bit of it. Too bad it wasn't to be.

G.I.Jim wrote:

marco17 wrote:I apologize in advance if this has been discussed long ago when Red 13 was origninally released, but this got me thinking.

There's a lot of talk and consensus that many people liked the potential new direction the Jeff could have taken Journey vocally and with their overall sound. However that said, Red 13 was more experimental, which I think lent itself more to Augeri's vocal style prior to Journey, and was their attempt at the time to move in a different direction musically, but failed in the eye of their fans, especially diehard fans. Personally, as a stand alone EP I didn't mind it, and thought it had its moments, but yes, does not sound like the Journey the world knows and loves. Do you believe that because Red 13 fell flat that this is why the band is so hesitant to move forward beyond the "classic" sound, and instead of being daring and moving forward with a guy like Jeff, they chose to once again hire Arnel, who while not a clone, but can pull off a decent Perry impression?

I don't think it had anything to do with Red13. They recorded that, then toured for years after ,singing the "Dirty dozen". I think they tried to venture out again, and saw that fans didn't like the experimental Generations album. After the whole thing blew up over Steve's Lipping, they shoved him out the door. Neal being "Friends" with Jeff, knew Jeff could pull off the material in short notice (which saved their asses by not having to cancel on Def Leppard) and was probably thinking things could work out between Jeff and Journey. After announcing that they would be working on an album and going in a new direction, I think the following happened...

I think Neal and Jonathan had a serious pow-wow, and realized "wait a minute, we're pushing retirement age here. Why should we try to risk our last two or three years of touring on new uncharted territory, when the last two albums we did that with didn't succeed?". I personally think that Jeff was pushing for the "New direction" of the band, but the band decided to go back to where the money is. From a financial standpoint, I think they made the right decision. I think the way they handled it sucks ass.

That's my three or four cents for the day!

I agree,I could totally buy that theory... Also,I think the Soul SirkUs thing came into play..If they throw Jeff into the mix with Journey,Would it be Journey or Soul SirkUs? I still think people would be shocked if they knew the real reason Jeff isn't in the band.. I just don't think its a simple as people think..

I thought that Red 13 had some good music on it especially state of grace and walking away from the edge., I liked the sound and the vocals on those and on faith in the heartland, place in your heart and even better together, thought and agree that some of songs were "fillers" like better life, knowing that you love me and every generation.
too bad they did not take the time to follow that sound.
I agree they handled everything really badly and for that reason alot of people will probably not
give Arnel or them a chance.,

Red13's got The Time, that's more than enough for me.

It's challenging, but if you can get your teeth around it there's a lot to dig about that monster little jam.

For a good month after buying the record I had it as only the 3rd best song on the EP behind the overrated WAFTE (good, mind you but overrated).