MR

Wasn't Neal Schon involved with SS during the mixing etc of Generations? I believe JC even made a comment about Neal being gone. Now it looks like Neal Schon is very involved in the mixing of the new album.

Who thinks it will now be a better album with Schon's direct involvement.? BTW, I happen to love most of Generations.

I reckon it should be a better-produced album than Red13 and Generations. I'm expecting a very "Arrival"ish vibe out of this particular release, however, I fear it will be closer to the Japanese release and not the American one.

I loved most of Generations and Red13 as well (except for the needless filler ballads), it seemed to be a very good new step in their progression. I think this release will be a bit of a 180 from where they were going with Generations, treading back into the lightest of TBF and Arrival styles.

Curious. Why do you think it will be lighter?

i imagine neal is very involved in this project as it is sort of a make or break release.

I'm just not feeling the "rock" from Arnel. Great vocalist and everything, but there's not really any kind of essence I'm getting from him that says he's gonna amp it up at all. He seemed to only cover hit singles and power ballads, at least from what I've seen, when he was in his cover/tribute band..

Neal and Cain seem to be all about the "legacy sound" all of a sudden, and when most people think of Journey's legacy, they think of mid-tempo hit singles and catchy power ballads. So if they're going to cater to the legacy, like they're alluding to in all of their recent interviews and such, this new album will likely be a parade of mid-tempo and balladic fluff. Sure, Neal and Deen will throw us rockers a bone with three or four up-tempo fist-pumpers... but I fear as a whole the new album will have poor flow and direction.

I don't know anything about the new album at all, this is all just a "hunch" i'm getting.

Lula wrote:i imagine neal is very involved in this project as it is sort of a make or break release.

OK I can't help it. Your baby is absolutely adorable. Keep up the pictures.

ProgRocker53 wrote:I'm just not feeling the "rock" from Arnel. Great vocalist and everything, but there's not really any kind of essence I'm getting from him that says he's gonna amp it up at all. He seemed to only cover hit singles and power ballads, at least from what I've seen, when he was in his cover/tribute band..

Neal and Cain seem to be all about the "legacy sound" all of a sudden, and when most people think of Journey's legacy, they think of mid-tempo hit singles and catchy power ballads. So if they're going to cater to the legacy, like they're alluding to in all of their recent interviews and such, this new album will likely be a parade of mid-tempo and balladic fluff. Sure, Neal and Deen will throw us rockers a bone with three or four up-tempo fist-pumpers... but I fear as a whole the new album will have poor flow and direction.

I don't know anything about the new album at all, this is all just a "hunch" i'm getting.

I happen to agree with you. I think it's all about what the Schon/Cain machine want. Definately Cain wants the mid-tempo (not all bad) towards the ballads while I'm sure Schon still wants to rock but probably age has mellowed him some what. Probably too many disappointments with SS etc. Kevin Shirley even stated that Cain/Schon still don't agree on the music. Who Knows? Just hope it comes out with great music.

I listened to a live version of Remember Me today from 1999 {long version}. It really rocked,and Neal kicked ass at the end. More songs like that would have be cool. Arrivel was good also, but after it didnt go over like they hoped it would, it seems like they gave up

Here's the tracklist with Cain in charge:

1. Your Heart
2. The Love We Shared
3. Waves of Emotion
4. Hers is the Flower
5. To Love, To Lose
6. American Heart
7. Kisses In The Sun
8. Tangled
9. Stars Born
10. Delicate Love

and with Schon in charge:

1. Drillin' Coots
2. Rockin' Faces
3. Drinkin' Beer
4. Taggin' Broads
5. Smokin' Weed
6. Kickin' Ass
7. Shreddin' Licks
8. Blowin' Minds
9. Throwin' Dwarves
10. Eatin' Puss
11. Tossin' Salad (with lyrics by Jonathan Cain)




.....actually, on second thought, Schon's tracklist looks more like a Rockin' Deano tracklist to me.

ProgRocker53 wrote:Here's the tracklist with Cain in charge:

1. Your Heart
2. The Love We Shared
3. Waves of Emotion
4. Hers is the Flower
5. To Love, To Lose
6. American Heart
7. Kisses In The Sun
8. Tangled
9. Stars Born
10. Delicate Love

and with Schon in charge:

1. Drillin' Coots
2. Rockin' Faces
3. Drinkin' Beer
4. Taggin' Broads
5. Smokin' Weed
6. Kickin' Ass
7. Shreddin' Licks
8. Blowin' Minds
9. Throwin' Dwarves
10. Eatin' Puss
11. Tossin' Salad (with lyrics by Jonathan Cain)




.....actually, on second thought, Schon's tracklist looks more like a Rockin' Deano tracklist to me.

Actually looks pretty acurate to me. Always loved that Schon guy.

REALLY funny, dude. A classic! The thing is, I believe Cain actually does have two or three songs on his solo records with hauntingly similar titles.

stevew2 wrote:I listened to a live version of Remember Me today from 1999 {long version}. It really rocked,and Neal kicked ass at the end. More songs like that would have be cool. Arrivel was good also, but after it didnt go over like they hoped it would, it seems like they gave up

It sounds to me like they are pretty pumped about this album. So if they have a plan for this one and not the garbage that happened with Arrival: Maybe, Maybe It just might make it. Definately sounds like it won't be the music that holds it back.

ProgRocker53 wrote:I reckon it should be a better-produced album than Red13 and Generations. I'm expecting a very "Arrival"ish vibe out of this particular release, however, I fear it will be closer to the Japanese release and not the American one.

I loved most of Generations and Red13 as well (except for the needless filler ballads), it seemed to be a very good new step in their progression. I think this release will be a bit of a 180 from where they were going with Generations, treading back into the lightest of TBF and Arrival styles.

Arrival'ish vibe due to Kevin Shirley 10 years ago?

Lula wrote:i imagine neal is very involved in this project as it is sort of a make or break release.

How you figure? It's not like it will move 100,000 units. It doesn't matter one way or another. They are all about live.

Rockindeano wrote:

Lula wrote:i imagine neal is very involved in this project as it is sort of a make or break release.

How you figure? It's not like it will move 100,000 units. It doesn't matter one way or another. They are all about live.

Domestic or International?

RocknRoll wrote:

Rockindeano wrote:

Lula wrote:i imagine neal is very involved in this project as it is sort of a make or break release.

How you figure? It's not like it will move 100,000 units. It doesn't matter one way or another. They are all about live.

Domestic or International?

They don't sell records internationally. They may move 20, 25,000 in Japan, a few thousand in Germany and maybe 5,000 in Canada. They may reach 100,000 due to Asia and the Phillipines, unless those people just go American and thieve it off Limewire or Napster.

Rockindeano wrote:

Lula wrote:i imagine neal is very involved in this project as it is sort of a make or break release.

How you figure? It's not like it will move 100,000 units. It doesn't matter one way or another. They are all about live.

Are you guys shakin up or what??Or do you talk to each other buy the computor??

stevew2 wrote:

Rockindeano wrote:

Lula wrote:i imagine neal is very involved in this project as it is sort of a make or break release.

How you figure? It's not like it will move 100,000 units. It doesn't matter one way or another. They are all about live.

Are you guys shakin up or what??Or do you talk to each other buy the computor??

I am 5 feet from her. She is asleep with the little man. I get the fuckin dog. He feels good. Nice and tight on those lonely nights He never complains when I finish early either.

I feel the same about my cat,he is always there hangin with me at 330 am ,Im not sure about how tight he is, you cant do much with a cat.have fun with fido

Rockindeano wrote:

RocknRoll wrote:

Rockindeano wrote:

Lula wrote:i imagine neal is very involved in this project as it is sort of a make or break release.

How you figure? It's not like it will move 100,000 units. It doesn't matter one way or another. They are all about live.

Domestic or International?

They don't sell records internationally. They may move 20, 25,000 in Japan, a few thousand in Germany and maybe 5,000 in Canada. They may reach 100,000 due to Asia and the Phillipines, unless those people just go American and thieve it off Limewire or Napster.

Agreed. Now days, CD's are just used to make money for the labels and to also promote the band live. Band's make almost all of their money from live performances.

ProgRocker53 wrote:I'm just not feeling the "rock" from Arnel. Great vocalist and everything, but there's not really any kind of essence I'm getting from him that says he's gonna amp it up at all.

I agree.

I just forsee more TBF than Generations/Red13 with him at the helm.

ProgRocker53 wrote:4. Taggin' Broads
.

......................................................

RocknRoll wrote:Wasn't Neal Schon involved with SS during the mixing etc of Generations? I believe JC even made a comment about Neal being gone. Now it looks like Neal Schon is very involved in the mixing of the new album.

Doubt it.

I remember reading Neal saying something after Red13 about both he and Cain having a vow never to let the other behind a board or near the dials and buttons again.

The only notable problem with Nel's absence for Generations was the exclusion of Never Too Late from the original product. With Neal and Jon producing/mixing on two tracks of Arrival and all of Red13 we got terrible sound. It was getting better for Generations but too rushed. Let Kevin do his thing and make it sound good.

As for the vibe of the CD...I think we will get an Arrival feel. One problem I see is the band simply recording the songs they have for the record. They don't seem to take the time to write a LOT of songs, demo/record them all, then choose the best for the project. There is no choice, it's like "This is what we got, put it on the disc".

jrnyman28 wrote:The only notable problem with Nel's absence for Generations was the exclusion of Never Too Late from the original product. With Neal and Jon producing/mixing on two tracks of Arrival and all of Red13 we got terrible sound.

Yeah, letting Neal mix is kinda like letting Stevie Wonder do video editing.

I'm not sure but I think Kevin Shirley's modus operandi is "get the fuck out until I'M done with the mix..." Don't know that any of the band members would have much influence over the mixing portion. I think creatively the band was prepared to hand over a fair portion of editorial control to Shirley with this one.,

Jeremey wrote: I think creatively the band was prepared to hand over a fair portion of editorial control to Shirley with this one.,

Yep.

Here comes Trial By More Fire.


Regarding the Schon/Cain producing/mixing butchery I've got a mix that has The Time followed immediately by The Place In Your Heart and I have to turn the knob far up to hear The Time on the mix cd the way I like to hear it, then I always forget, it ends, TPIYH comes on and literally blows me into the back seat of the car such is the difference.

13, you will be so fuckin happy it's Kevin Shirley and NOT Kevin Elson. BIG difference.

You don't like TBF..Dude, that has Perry's signature all over it, and we know you don't like Perry.

Rockindeano wrote:13, you will be so fuckin happy it's Kevin Shirley and NOT Kevin Elson. BIG difference.

Oh I know there's a big difference between those 2.

One produced all of Journey's great albums, the other did TBF and made Arrival sound like TBF2 in many too many places.

Red13JoePa wrote:

Rockindeano wrote:13, you will be so fuckin happy it's Kevin Shirley and NOT Kevin Elson. BIG difference.

Oh I know there's a big difference between those 2.

One produced all of Journey's great albums, the other did TBF and made Arrival sound like TBF2 in many too many places.

IMO, The crucial difference is the lack of direction provided by a manager who was intimately involved in a pro-active sense (seeing as how the entire concept was essentially his), as opposed to the current lassez faire, reactionary, 'do what you want, we get the same amount either way' group, who btw, ration their decison making ability between VAST number of groups and artists. More power to them.
Only one of those two had any incentive to grow the group.
The other has a financial motive to maintain the status quo, and to inhibt any movement away from that core identity, inspite of the original concept of that being an expression of one of movement, change, metamorphasis. < /disgruntled fan rant. >

The personality of a Company / Corporation is defined by the culture within the top of that Company / Corporation.
Example: contrast Enron with Ben and Jerry's.

Rockindeano wrote:13, you will be so fuckin happy it's Kevin Shirley and NOT Kevin Elson. BIG difference.

You don't like TBF..Dude, that has Perry's signature all over it, and we know you don't like Perry.

IMO, for TBF to have been relevant to the real legacy, there should have been a song called "Trial By Fire" and the album called "RETURN" or something similar, maybe even "Arrival".... who cares, it's gone now.

Red13JoePa wrote:

Jeremey wrote: I think creatively the band was prepared to hand over a fair portion of editorial control to Shirley with this one.,

Yep.

Here comes Trial By More Fire.
Regarding the Schon/Cain producing/mixing butchery I've got a mix that has The Time followed immediately by The Place In Your Heart and I have to turn the knob far up to hear The Time on the mix cd the way I like to hear it, then I always forget, it ends, TPIYH comes on and literally blows me into the back seat of the car such is the difference.

You will "hear" more of Shirley in ARRIVAL than TBF, simply due to the fact that SP was in charge, tacitly, if not overtly.
For a REAL good dose of the Shirley / Cain / Schon potential, look to "Remember Me", although I will say, Blades' songwriting ability practically removes the potential for "producer abuse". It ( Jack Blades material) practically records itself.