MR

I'm actually interested in Journey again.

Steve Augeri was a very good singer and I enjoyed Arrival. It's entirely underrated. But I never thought he was a phenomenal singer. Very good, but not phenomenal. Same with Jeff. Obviously a talent, but he didn't make the hairs stand up. Notwithstanding how these gentlemen were treated, because I think any rational person will agree that right is right and that was wrong. Journey owes them both a public apology they'll never recieve. Both gentlemen pulled thier fat out of the fire when they needed someone to do just that... but these singers were never phenomenal, and they were always in the shadow of a phenomenal singer. This is of course all very subjective, but this is an opinion board and this is my opinion.

Having heard many of Arnel's You tube clips, I don't think it possible that a better choice existed for them. He does sound phenomenal. He has the power, projection and emotion in his voice Stevie P. had in the Frontiers era (Only the Young being my personal fave from this time period) Perry can't do that now even if he was motivated to. But Arnel can. How long is anyone's guess, but if Journey comes back with songs that demonstrate they are hungry again, then the potential for magic is certainly there. But Cain and co. have to TRY -- and I mean TRY in a way they did before everyone anointed them in the first place. It has to be that good to register. It's time to do something profound again instead of coasting on the profound things of two decades past.

Music at the end of the day it comes down to does it move me. Hearing the GH adnaseum on tour every year from a "good" singer doesn't move me. But offer a phenomenal singer -- and I just may have to buy a ticket. New music? If it's phenomenal I'll buy another Journey cd -- and after Generations I was convinced the Emporer was wearing no clothes.

Best of luck to Arnel. Emotion and passion you cannot buy, and there just aren't singers like this on every street corner. I thought I was done with Journey, but I'll actually keep a close eye on this with Arnel, and hopefully it will warrent one.

If they treat him the way they treated Steve A., and Jeff -- then that's the ninth life of the cat for me. This is without a doubt the horse into the sunset time for the band, and they've got a phenomenal one. Let's hope they have the good sense to ride it well.

~Badco.

Badcotune wrote:I'm actually interested in Journey again.

Steve Augeri was a very good singer and I enjoyed Arrival. It's entirely underrated. But I never thought he was a phenomenal singer. Very good, but not phenomenal. Same with Jeff. Obviously a talent, but he didn't make the hairs stand up. Notwithstanding how these gentlemen were treated, because I think any rational person will agree that right is right and that was wrong. Journey owes them both a public apology they'll never recieve. Both gentlemen pulled thier fat out of the fire when they needed someone to do just that... but these singers were never phenomenal, and they were always in the shadow of a phenomenal singer. This is of course all very subjective, but this is an opinion board and this is my opinion.

Having heard many of Arnel's You tube clips, I don't think it possible that a better choice existed for them. He does sound phenomenal. He has the power, projection and emotion in his voice Stevie P. had in the Frontiers era (Only the Young being my personal fave from this time period) Perry can't do that now even if he was motivated to. But Arnel can. How long is anyone's guess, but if Journey comes back with songs that demonstrate they are hungry again, then the potential for magic is certainly there. But Cain and co. have to TRY -- and I mean TRY in a way they did before everyone anointed them in the first place. It has to be that good to register. It's time to do something profound again instead of coasting on the profound things of two decades past.

Music at the end of the day it comes down to does it move me. Hearing the GH adnaseum on tour every year from a "good" singer doesn't move me. But offer a phenomenal singer -- and I just may have to buy a ticket. New music? If it's phenomenal I'll buy another Journey cd -- and after Generations I was convinced the Emporer was wearing no clothes.

Best of luck to Arnel. Emotion and passion you cannot buy, and there just aren't singers like this on every street corner. I thought I was done with Journey, but I'll actually keep a close eye on this with Arnel, and hopefully it will warrent one.

If they treat him the way they treated Steve A., and Jeff -- then that's the ninth life of the cat for me. This is without a doubt the horse into the sunset time for the band, and they've got a phenomenal one. Let's hope they have the good sense to ride it well.

~Badco.

What if it's, say, 3 phenomenal songs, and a couple so so ones tagged onto a rerecording of Journey's Greatest Hits? I'm serious - Your post made me wonder exactly what it is people are expecting from the band when they say things like "I'd like to be blown away by new music." What will have to qualify as a phenomenal reason to get excited about new music?

Arnel may be good. And he may benefit from NOT being Steve Perry's replacement. As much as I LOVE Steve Augeri and his era with Journey, I agree that he was not a "phenominal" singer. Talented? Absolutely. But he had problems. Maybe Arnel is better? I wait to see. But I also agree that Journey needs to be HUNGRY if they really want to be more successful than just a nostalgia circuit band. History says they are not that commited. Touring is hard enough, but this band has needed to work harder all the way back to Arrival...they haven't done it yet. JSS seemed to get through to them the importance of that hard work and determination and they repaid him with a pink slip. The future lays in Journey's hands....what will they do with it?

Jeremey wrote:

Badcotune wrote:I'm actually interested in Journey again.

Steve Augeri was a very good singer and I enjoyed Arrival. It's entirely underrated. But I never thought he was a phenomenal singer. Very good, but not phenomenal. Same with Jeff. Obviously a talent, but he didn't make the hairs stand up. Notwithstanding how these gentlemen were treated, because I think any rational person will agree that right is right and that was wrong. Journey owes them both a public apology they'll never recieve. Both gentlemen pulled thier fat out of the fire when they needed someone to do just that... but these singers were never phenomenal, and they were always in the shadow of a phenomenal singer. This is of course all very subjective, but this is an opinion board and this is my opinion.

Having heard many of Arnel's You tube clips, I don't think it possible that a better choice existed for them. He does sound phenomenal. He has the power, projection and emotion in his voice Stevie P. had in the Frontiers era (Only the Young being my personal fave from this time period) Perry can't do that now even if he was motivated to. But Arnel can. How long is anyone's guess, but if Journey comes back with songs that demonstrate they are hungry again, then the potential for magic is certainly there. But Cain and co. have to TRY -- and I mean TRY in a way they did before everyone anointed them in the first place. It has to be that good to register. It's time to do something profound again instead of coasting on the profound things of two decades past.

Music at the end of the day it comes down to does it move me. Hearing the GH adnaseum on tour every year from a "good" singer doesn't move me. But offer a phenomenal singer -- and I just may have to buy a ticket. New music? If it's phenomenal I'll buy another Journey cd -- and after Generations I was convinced the Emporer was wearing no clothes.

Best of luck to Arnel. Emotion and passion you cannot buy, and there just aren't singers like this on every street corner. I thought I was done with Journey, but I'll actually keep a close eye on this with Arnel, and hopefully it will warrent one.

If they treat him the way they treated Steve A., and Jeff -- then that's the ninth life of the cat for me. This is without a doubt the horse into the sunset time for the band, and they've got a phenomenal one. Let's hope they have the good sense to ride it well.

~Badco.

What if it's, say, 3 phenomenal songs, and a couple so so ones tagged onto a rerecording of Journey's Greatest Hits? I'm serious - Your post made me wonder exactly what it is people are expecting from the band when they say things like "I'd like to be blown away by new music." What will have to qualify as a phenomenal reason to get excited about new music?

Personally, I want an album with all original rocking music. That'll be a start. If they want to re-record the GH, fine. I used to be opposed to this idea, but now I really don't care. Again, Perry's time with the band and his contributions are locked in space and time, hearts and minds, and NOTHING can tarnish those memories. People need to let go the "Journey is fucking up their legacy" drivel. If unfinished tours, long lay-offs, fired members from the "legacy" years, unsupported albums and phantom tours didn't do it, Perry's 3rd replacement singer re-recording 20 year old songs certainly isn't going to.

the idea of them re recording the Greatest Hits...makes me physically ill.

MrsPerry wrote:the idea of them re recording the Greatest Hits...makes me physically ill.

Good.

I'd say there has to be a HOOK to the songs. Power anthems still have a place in this world and if Arnel can convey his passion into 3 Phenomenal songs after the re-recordings. I'd be cool with that. I would've been cool with that if it was JEREMEY that was doing the same thing.

MrsPerry wrote:the idea of them re recording the Greatest Hits...makes me physically ill.

I still hope that has been shelved...or atleast reserved for Tour Promo or the occasional bonus track. But I still understand if it is packaged WITH the new CD as a Walmart exclusive bonus CD. Then you don't pay for it and you don't have to listen to it!

Saint John wrote:
Personally, I want an album with all original rocking music. That'll be a start. If they want to re-record the GH, fine. I used to be opposed to this idea, but now I really don't care. Again, Perry's time with the band and his contributions are locked in space and time, hearts and minds, and NOTHING can tarnish those memories. People need to let go the "Journey is fucking up their legacy" drivel. If unfinished tours, long lay-offs, fired members from the "legacy" years, unsupported albums and phantom tours didn't do it, Perry's 3rd replacement singer re-recording 20 year old songs certainly isn't going to.

What I meant was, what if Journey's release is a 23 track CD that includes a rerecording of 18 tracks we've heard 1000 times (albeit with a new singer) and 3 really amazing, great songs and 2 songs that make you say "meh," is that enough to qualify as what some have said needs to be "phenomenal?" Or will only a full album of new original material fit the bill?

Your post is a really Good example of how tastes and opinions differ in a good way. I applaude your post.
For me Steve Augeri was that kind of singer and he did make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up. I thought he brought talent emotion and feeling as well as his own take and style to the songs/
I think JSS is good also just not for Journey.
I have absoultuley no interest in hearing them rerecord the greatest hits. They should have done that with Steve Augeri, even though I know they were not allowed to.
Doing it now makes no sense.
After everything that has happened in the past 2 years I find it hard to blindly support the band
and have no interest in seeing them or any other band live.

Jeremey, I don't think that would qualify as phenominal at all! For me, it needs to be an album of new material that is at least 70% killer. (I don't expect perfection). But it goes further than that. It needs to be followed up with an amazing live show featuring support of several of those new tunes. And I would go so far as saying (for me) Journey also needs to re-establish a "positive" web presence again...and that might actually be the toughest part now....

Nothing against Arnel, but JSS was the real deal. Of the 3 singers post-Perry JSS was the best live. No he doesn't sound like Perry and doesn't need to. DC singing a few ballads was a special treat and it worked very well in concert. Firing JSS was a terrible mistake and the future will prove that.

Jeremey wrote:What I meant was, what if Journey's release is a 23 track CD that includes a rerecording of 18 tracks we've heard 1000 times (albeit with a new singer) and 3 really amazing, great songs and 2 songs that make you say "meh," is that enough to qualify as what some have said needs to be "phenomenal?" Or will only a full album of new original material fit the bill?

I've always imagined it being a two-disc package - one disc of the 11 or so tracks that they've already had recorded (according to Shirley), and one disc of re-recorded greatest hits. Sold at Wal-Mart for $11.88. And that would satisfy me as a fan.

Good music is good music. Bad music is bad music. You don't know what's what until you hear it. That's logic.

MidNightTrain wrote:Nothing against Arnel, but JSS was the real deal. Of the 3 singers post-Perry JSS was the best live. No he doesn't sound like Perry and doesn't need to. DC singing a few ballads was a special treat and it worked very well in concert. Firing JSS was a terrible mistake and the future will prove that.

I absolutely agree....as long as the band was 100% committed to working their asses off to reinvent themselves. But I think that is a big part of why JSS is out. The band doesn't want to do much more than tour IMO.

Journey has LOST IT...simply put.

And by "lost it", I mean they have lost all sense of "good taste" by continuing with this charade.

They may not be "ruining" their legacy but, they sure as hell are DILUTING it with singer after singer after singer.

They should never have played another note as "Journey" after TBF...and even the necessity of that disc is debatable.

WHY can't bands which have attained legendary status simply see when it is appropriate to HANG IT UP??!


There...I feel better.

Jeremey wrote:

Saint John wrote:
Personally, I want an album with all original rocking music. That'll be a start. If they want to re-record the GH, fine. I used to be opposed to this idea, but now I really don't care. Again, Perry's time with the band and his contributions are locked in space and time, hearts and minds, and NOTHING can tarnish those memories. People need to let go the "Journey is fucking up their legacy" drivel. If unfinished tours, long lay-offs, fired members from the "legacy" years, unsupported albums and phantom tours didn't do it, Perry's 3rd replacement singer re-recording 20 year old songs certainly isn't going to.

What I meant was, what if Journey's release is a 23 track CD that includes a rerecording of 18 tracks we've heard 1000 times (albeit with a new singer) and 3 really amazing, great songs and 2 songs that make you say "meh," is that enough to qualify as what some have said needs to be "phenomenal?" Or will only a full album of new original material fit the bill?

If they had 3 killer, kick-ass songs with the 18 re-recorded songs you mentioned, it would leave me scratching my head as to why they didn't do a full album. I'd be in favor of a 2 CD, 1 DVD summer release. Put out an all original CD, the GH re-recorded and a live DVD showcasing 50-50 of each. Package it with some cool photos and I think you have a winner.

PS I think re-recording the GH is being done for 2 reasons. 1) To piss Perry off and pay him back for a) touring solo in 93-94 rather than with Journey, b) Saying he was ready to be in Journey again and making them drop Rolie and Chalfant, c) Not touring in support of TBF (which many believe he never had any intentions of doing), and d) following "a" and b" with "c." 2) To sell in Asian markets if/when they do a tour of Asia.

jrnyman28 wrote:Jeremey, I don't think that would qualify as phenominal at all! For me, it needs to be an album of new material that is at least 70% killer. (I don't expect perfection). But it goes further than that. It needs to be followed up with an amazing live show featuring support of several of those new tunes. And I would go so far as saying (for me) Journey also needs to re-establish a "positive" web presence again...and that might actually be the toughest part now....

THAT isn't going to happen... just like was said above, for that to happen, they have to be "hungry" and they aren't hungry enough to work that hard, IMO.

And re-recording the greatest hits makes me physically ill, too.!

Saint John wrote:
If they had 3 killer, kick-ass songs with the 18 re-recorded songs you mentioned, it would leave me scratching my head as to why they didn't do a full album. I'd be in favor of a 2 CD, 1 DVD summer release. Put out an all original CD, the GH re-recorded and a live CD showcasing 50-50 of each. Package it with some cool photos and I think you have a winner.

Yeah, I don't think that would happen...I'm just trying to gauge the yardstick of success amongst us all. For me, I'd want to see a full CD of new material with at least 6 out of 10 songs being amazing. A few (2-3) great songs a la Arrival (ducking) or Generations and it won't get more than 2-3 spins in the car before I stuff it in the console and end up spilling coffee on it. I'm interested in seeing how much material was developed between August and October, for example. And I'm interested in Shirley's production, believe it or not. Not so much interested in hearing Arnel sing "Open Arms" or "Don't Stop Believin."

PS I think re-recording the GH is being done for 2 reasons. 1) To piss Perry off and pay him back for a) touring solo in 93-94 rather than with Journey, b) Saying he was ready to be in Journey again and making them drop Rolie and Chalfant, c) Not touring in support of TBF (which many believe he never had any intentions of doing), and d) following "a" and b" with "c." 2) To sell in Asian markets if/when they do a tour of Asia.

The rerecording of the greatest hits is being done for one reason, which is not listed above....

There is a reason they are considered "classic" songs...



They DON'T NEED "RE-DOING"!!!!!



geez.

Jeremey wrote:The rerecording of the greatest hits is being done for one reason, which is not listed above....

Easy bank?

Jeremey wrote:

Saint John wrote:
If they had 3 killer, kick-ass songs with the 18 re-recorded songs you mentioned, it would leave me scratching my head as to why they didn't do a full album. I'd be in favor of a 2 CD, 1 DVD summer release. Put out an all original CD, the GH re-recorded and a live CD showcasing 50-50 of each. Package it with some cool photos and I think you have a winner.

Yeah, I don't think that would happen...I'm just trying to gauge the yardstick of success amongst us all. For me, I'd want to see a full CD of new material with at least 6 out of 10 songs being amazing. A few (2-3) great songs a la Arrival (ducking) or Generations and it won't get more than 2-3 spins in the car before I stuff it in the console and end up spilling coffee on it. I'm interested in seeing how much material was developed between August and October, for example. And I'm interested in Shirley's production, believe it or not. Not so much interested in hearing Arnel sing "Open Arms" or "Don't Stop Believin."

PS I think re-recording the GH is being done for 2 reasons. 1) To piss Perry off and pay him back for a) touring solo in 93-94 rather than with Journey, b) Saying he was ready to be in Journey again and making them drop Rolie and Chalfant, c) Not touring in support of TBF (which many believe he never had any intentions of doing), and d) following "a" and b" with "c." 2) To sell in Asian markets if/when they do a tour of Asia.

The rerecording of the greatest hits is being done for one reason, which is not listed above....

Wal Mart's insistence?

re-recording the 'classics' would be Journey's way of "jacking off". Seriously, waste of time and effort.

If that's what they're having Arnel do, Arnel should quit now. It serves NO purpose at all.

Journey:
Make a big deal out of Arnel.
Do a NEW album of NEW music.
Dump your management team and get someone there who can help you.
Tell Neal to quit doing interviews.
Quit mentioning Perry in every news release.
Apologize to your hardcore fanbase so they will stand behind you.
Quit mentioning Perry in every news release...

Step into the future or get off the escalator.
Any band can go around in circles trying to be what they were, they look stupid doing it. So do you.

Arnel can save this band. He's that good of a singer.

Saint John wrote:

Wal Mart's insistence?

Look deep into your pockets....

Journey's catalog is too immense and broad to pass up for WalMart not to get their hands on it. The big box retailer is slowly taking the place of the record company when it comes to established classic rock and a/c artists. It's the perfect fit, between retail and the cashbox of the touring revenues....Get the material out there to Joe Sixpack's hands, who's far more likely to see a point of purchase marketing display at Best Buy or Wal Mart than he is to hear a "hot new" release on the local Clear Channel affiliate.

Saint John wrote:

Jeremey wrote:

Saint John wrote:
If they had 3 killer, kick-ass songs with the 18 re-recorded songs you mentioned, it would leave me scratching my head as to why they didn't do a full album. I'd be in favor of a 2 CD, 1 DVD summer release. Put out an all original CD, the GH re-recorded and a live CD showcasing 50-50 of each. Package it with some cool photos and I think you have a winner.

Yeah, I don't think that would happen...I'm just trying to gauge the yardstick of success amongst us all. For me, I'd want to see a full CD of new material with at least 6 out of 10 songs being amazing. A few (2-3) great songs a la Arrival (ducking) or Generations and it won't get more than 2-3 spins in the car before I stuff it in the console and end up spilling coffee on it. I'm interested in seeing how much material was developed between August and October, for example. And I'm interested in Shirley's production, believe it or not. Not so much interested in hearing Arnel sing "Open Arms" or "Don't Stop Believin."

PS I think re-recording the GH is being done for 2 reasons. 1) To piss Perry off and pay him back for a) touring solo in 93-94 rather than with Journey, b) Saying he was ready to be in Journey again and making them drop Rolie and Chalfant, c) Not touring in support of TBF (which many believe he never had any intentions of doing), and d) following "a" and b" with "c." 2) To sell in Asian markets if/when they do a tour of Asia.

The rerecording of the greatest hits is being done for one reason, which is not listed above....

Wal Mart's insistence?

Probably so they can have vocal tracks ready for their shows in case they ruin another great singer...

Jeremey wrote:

Saint John wrote:

Wal Mart's insistence?

Look deep into your pockets....

Journey's catalog is too immense and broad to pass up for WalMart not to get their hands on it. The big box retailer is slowly taking the place of the record company when it comes to established classic rock and a/c artists. It's the perfect fit, between retail and the cashbox of the touring revenues....Get the material out there to Joe Sixpack's hands, who's far more likely to see a point of purchase marketing display at Best Buy or Wal Mart than he is to hear a "hot new" release on the local Clear Channel affiliate.

Gotcha! Thanks for the explanation.

brywool wrote:re-recording the 'classics' would be Journey's way of "jacking off". Seriously, waste of time and effort.

If that's what they're having Arnel do, Arnel should quit now. It serves NO purpose at all.

Journey:
Make a big deal out of Arnel.
Do a NEW album of NEW music.
Dump your management team and get someone there who can help you.
Tell Neal to quit doing interviews.
Quit mentioning Perry in every news release.
Apologize to your hardcore fanbase so they will stand behind you.
Quit mentioning Perry in every news release...

Step into the future or get off the escalator.
Any band can go around in circles trying to be what they were, they look stupid doing it. So do you.

Arnel can save this band. He's that good of a singer.

What's wrong with just being a touring band and being able to continue to play the hits that people want to hear? I really don't think bolstering up Journey into some great "comeback" with a new singer is on the agenda...Seriously....Some valid points, brywool, but think of Journey as a corporation and the members with varying levels of seniority....That collection of greatest hits is their version of the 401(k), and after nearly thirty years of service for some, it's time to start taking out more than they are putting in...

Jeremey wrote:What if it's, say, 3 phenomenal songs, and a couple so so ones tagged onto a rerecording of Journey's Greatest Hits? I'm serious - Your post made me wonder exactly what it is people are expecting from the band when they say things like "I'd like to be blown away by new music." What will have to qualify as a phenomenal reason to get excited about new music?

I have absolutely no interest whatsoever to purchase an album comprised of re-recorded hits (+ 3). Why? I am a fan of Journey for what the were and I continue as a fan of what the are. However, don't try to change the past. Redicules! Move forward or kiss this old fan's ass goodbye.

Jeremey wrote:The local Clear Channel affiliate.

Who I'm happy to say will soon tank if they keep things up the way they're going. Clear Channel and Cumulus both.

Jeremey wrote:What's wrong with just being a touring band and being able to continue to play the hits that people want to hear? I really don't think bolstering up Journey into some great "comeback" with a new singer is on the agenda...Seriously....Some valid points, brywool, but think of Journey as a corporation and the members with varying levels of seniority....That collection of greatest hits is their version of the 401(k), and after nearly thirty years of service for some, it's time to start taking out more than they are putting in...

That's sort of what I've been saying all along. That Journey touring the GH's is their retirement package. There's nothing wrong with that per se, however, it does now make them 100% what they hated being referred to in their heyday: A Corporate Rock Entity.

In doing so, it tarnishes whatever heart they put into their work with Perry. But hey, if they're okay with it, that's their call. I don't have to pay their bills, they do, but if I don't like what I hear, I won't support it.

For me:
1) I don't like them re-recording the greatest hits with another singer and putting them up for sale. There's already a greatest hits album with the singer that made them hits in the first place. It's bate and switch marketing, rapes the fans and makes light of Perry's contributions. The only legitimate reason to re-record the GH's is to use as free samplers on their website to entice fans to come see their shows with a singer who's not Perry.

2) I don't expect an amazing album with Arnel from these guys. Most likely, it will be Arrival part 2 with a stronger vocalist and I play arrival about as often as play my Bad English CD's (pretty much never). This might work in their favor though, lol... if my expectations are low enough, I'll probably be easier to please if they rise above what I'm expecting.

3) If they don't come out with new kick ass material, I'm pretty sure I'm not going to attend any more shows. This has nothing to do with Arnel. I'm just bored of the GH's tour.

It's time for the band to put up or shut up. Prove to your fans you're still a band and not a nostalgia act. Ball's in their court. Game on.